92 replies to this topic

[Vauxhall]

Only using spoiler tags for this next bit as it's quite a big deal about M's fate which not everyone might want to know. Read with caution:

Spoiler

I believe M dies as a result of injuries sustained in the crossfire of the gunfight at Skyfall Lodge. As a result, I'd speculate that it won't be clear whose shot actually kills her.

[Shrublands]

You got there just as I was about to post Vauxhall

I'll post anyway, as it contains a few different details... [again, read with caution]

Spoiler

Silva is already dead when M dies.
From what I understand, she is wounded during the attack on Skyfall, but manages to get out via the underground tunnel.
Bond finishes off the bad guys, then finds her in the chapel, where she dies in his arms.

[DamnCoffee]

If this is true. This sounds heart wrenching and amazing. I... I can't contain my excitement. Where did you get these details, Vaux?

[PPK_19]

It's obvious that Shrublands has friends in high places after reading those spoilers! Sounds like Skyfall is going to have a great climax! So its pretty much confirmed then that

Spoiler

Ralph Fiennes will be taking over as M from now on

[Royal Dalton]

If this is true. This sounds heart wrenching and amazing.

And like the ending of a million other films.

[Shrublands]

If this is true. This sounds heart wrenching and amazing.

And like the ending of a million other films.

Taking the bare bones description, you could say the same about the ending of any Bond film, even OHMSS.
In this case, I don’t agree at all. Very few films contain the finest actor of her generation playing a part that the audience has seen her play 7 times over so any years. And then at the climax of said film…

If done well, it could be a real stand out chapter in the series. I have confidence in Mendes to pull this off very well.

[Vauxhall]

So its pretty much confirmed then that

Spoiler

Ralph Fiennes will be taking over as M from now on

I'm not entirely sure yet. Given what I know about various scenes and exchanges, I think we'll be left guessing about Mallory and his motives right the way to the end of the movie - and he could turn out to be less than trustworthy.

[Pussfeller]

I'm not certain either, but it seems like a safe bet. If Dench goes, that leaves a gaping vacancy for someone to fill. Ask yourself, who can fill it? If they don't replace her with someone equally prestigious, it'll feel like a downgrade. They got a lot of mileage out of Dench being a major-league thespo, and if they scrimp on her successor it will feel like the second coming of Robert Brown. Business is hardly slow. They can afford to maintain the swank. And Fiennes is the only prospect I see. He's prestigious, the right age, the right type, and not averse to taking recurring gigs in genre films. All things considered, I give ten to one that he'll play M, at least for the remainder of Craig's tenure.

Keep in mind that he could easily play a crooked M. In keeping with the times, the Bond series increasingly depicts a world of black-and-gray morality in which a dodgy M wouldn't be out of place. This might even have been the twist that hooked Fiennes : "I'll play M, but only if I can play him sinister."

[SecretAgentFan]

I just hope this will not turn out to be a soap opera.

[Pussfeller]

The only thing that looks worrying to me is...

Spoiler

M dying in Bond's arms

...which, if mishandled, could be terribly melodramatic and angsty. On the flipside, it could provide an opportunity to show just how cold Bond really is. It could go too far in either direction. Bond shouldn't be breaking down, but he shouldn't be a full-on psychopath either. I can't wait to see how they do it.

[SecretAgentFan]

Well, he could do the "Mathis"-trick...

[Pussfeller]

Exactly. I liked that scene, but I get the impression that most people felt it was over-the-top, borderline schizo behavior.

[SecretAgentFan]

It kinda was. I thought it was interesting but also a bit over the top, too much shock effect.

[PPK_19]

I can't wait to see how they do it.

Indeed. Think about it: the whole plot of Skyfall stems from M cocking up some mission in her her past/screwing over Silva in some way- and let's not forget Silva's connection to Bond. Almost all the hell Bond is going to go through in Skyfall- from what i can gather- is because of M. "Bond's loyalty to M is tested" - that is the most interesting part of the plot to me.

So

Spoiler

M dying in Bond's arms

is going to be great to watch. We don't know how he's going to react to that emotionally. Will it be a soap-opera moment, all tears and regret? Or will he just accept that it was inevitable from the beginning of the mission that there was a strong possibility that this could happen and be stoic about it? DC is great at both full blown emotion AND the understated stuff, so this is something i'm incredibly looking forward to.

[MajorB]

It kinda was. I thought it was interesting but also a bit over the top, too much shock effect.

It might have worked better for me if it had made more sense, but who was Bond trying to fool by making it look like a robbery? The police had been bought off and were in control of the story, so no matter what he did, he was going to be blamed. I just never got the point.

[SecretAgentFan]

I guess Bond wanted to show Quantum that he would not be stopped - not even if someone close to him were killed.

[DamnCoffee]

I can't wait to see how they do it.

Indeed. Think about it: the whole plot of Skyfall stems from M cocking up some mission in her her past/screwing over Silva in some way- and let's not forget Silva's connection to Bond. Almost all the hell Bond is going to go through in Skyfall- from what i can gather- is because of M. "Bond's loyalty to M is tested" - that is the most interesting part of the plot to me.

So

Spoiler

M dying in Bond's arms

is going to be great to watch. We don't know how he's going to react to that emotionally. Will it be a soap-opera moment, all tears and regret? Or will he just accept that it was inevitable from the beginning of the mission that there was a strong possibility that this could happen and be stoic about it? DC is great at both full blown emotion AND the understated stuff, so this is something i'm incredibly looking forward to.

The more I think about it, the more the 'soap-opera' moment is the way to go. I'm all for these movies in films, providing they're handled well. The thing is...

Spoiler

M has been a massive part of Bonds life. They've developed a rather large respect for one another (Which I think will be intensified more with Skyfall) and dare I say underlining friendship. If this was a minor character, such as... Tanner. I wouldn't think it would be appropriate for Bond to shed a tear (Even though in the novels, Bond is his best friend in the service, but this aspect hasn't really been explored on film), M however, even though her and Bond have had massive trust issues in the rebooted era, She's been in 7 Bond films. For the fans, she has played such a massive part in the Brosnan and Craig era, and I think since we've been so invested in this character, a full blown emotional death scene would need to be done. Not only for the films, for the fans. We've never had this before in a Bond film. With Bond you know the character will continue, despite him being rebooted and replaced he is still the star, but to have a character for 7 films in a row, giving her all into the franchise, and.. well let's just say I'm looking forward to it. Judi for me, is my favourite M. I think she's brilliant, so I wouldn't have any problem what so ever with Bond having even a breakdown over M's death. If he's vowed to protect her for the entire film, and then at the end she's taken away so suddenly, then even though Silva is dead, Bond has still failed. I don't have a problem with that. Bond winning, but with massive consequences has always interested me.

[The Shark]

Will it be a soap-opera moment, all tears and regret?

No more Lifetime channel bollox, please. Just fire a bazooka at the annoying old bag.

You owe it to the fans, EON.

[TheSilhouette]

Will it be a soap-opera moment, all tears and regret?

No more Lifetime channel bollox, please. Just fire a bazooka at the annoying old bag.

You owe it to the fans, EON.

Some of us fans actually like her.

[MkB]

... While the fact that Bond is half Scottish is due to the film series, ...

I beg to differ. Andrew Bond being from Glencoe and his wife Monique being Swiss certainly *is* part of the literary canon.

Wow, Vauxhall and Shrublands, you do have very interesting information it seems...

I am afraid that I do not follow the boards as closely as I should, so forgive me if this has already been discussed to death, but what do you guys make of this line from Q,

Spoiler

"Call Tanner... Bond, he's going after M"

?

[Pussfeller]

... While the fact that Bond is half Scottish is due to the film series, ...

I beg to differ. Andrew Bond being from Glencoe and his wife Monique being Swiss certainly *is* part of the literary canon.

Now we're getting into a chicken-and-egg situation. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that Fleming's original conception of Bond was just generically "British", with no explicit Scottish ancestry, and every indication that he was a garden-variety Englishman. Later, after Connery had made a good impression in the role, Fleming was inspired to specify the character's background as half-Scottish. So one could justifiably say that the film series is the source of Bond's Scottishness, although Fleming canonized it retroactively.

[TheSilhouette]

... While the fact that Bond is half Scottish is due to the film series, ...

I beg to differ. Andrew Bond being from Glencoe and his wife Monique being Swiss certainly *is* part of the literary canon.

Wow, Vauxhall and Shrublands, you do have very interesting information it seems...

I am afraid that I do not follow the boards as closely as I should, so forgive me if this has already been discussed to death, but what do you guys make of this line from Q,

Spoiler

"Call Tanner... Bond, he's going after M"

?

Spoiler

It's after Silva escapes the isolation chamber and Bond is chasing him through London. Silva is headed towards the board of inquiry at Whitehall, where M is.

[MkB]

Now we're getting into a chicken-and-egg situation. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that Fleming's original conception of Bond was just generically "British", with no explicit Scottish ancestry, and every indication that he was a garden-variety Englishman. Later, after Connery had made a good impression in the role, Fleming was inspired to specify the character's background as half-Scottish. So one could justifiably say that the film series is the source of Bond's Scottishness, although Fleming canonized it retroactively.

Oh right then

[MkB]

I am afraid that I do not follow the boards as closely as I should, so forgive me if this has already been discussed to death, but what do you guys make of this line from Q,

Spoiler

"Call Tanner... Bond, he's going after M"

?

Spoiler

It's after Silva escapes the isolation chamber and Bond is chasing him through London. Silva is headed towards the board of inquiry at Whitehall, where M is.

Got it, thanks! Since I had only seen the line in script, I was not quite sure whether Q was talking to Bond, or about Bond (i.e.: was it this moment when Bond's loyalty was called into question?)

[JCRendle]

... While the fact that Bond is half Scottish is due to the film series, ...

I beg to differ. Andrew Bond being from Glencoe and his wife Monique being Swiss certainly *is* part of the literary canon.

You are correct, but it was only added by Fleming because of Connery's portrayal, it was a sort nod to him adding the Scottish heritage. I wasn't suggesting the film makers made up his family history.

Can't find the edit button; I should of finished reading the thread, Pussfeller explained it much better than I did.

[Shrublands]

Connery's casting certainly was a factor, but to say it was the only reason is probably overstating it somewhat.
With writing, there are usually numerous reasons for things like this. For example - Fleming's own family came from Scotland. His ancestors were crofters from Perthshire who moved to Dundee to look for work in the late 19th century.
Also, the Fleming family once owned Dalness Lodge near Glencoe, perhaps that's another reason why Andrew Bond comes from that very part of Scotland.

[PPK_19]

Connery's casting certainly was a factor, but to say it was the only reason is probably overstating it somewhat.
With writing, there are usually numerous reasons for things like this. For example - Fleming's own family came from Scotland. His ancestors were crofters from Perthshire who moved to Dundee to look for work in the late 19th century.
Also, the Fleming family once owned Dalness Lodge near Glencoe, perhaps that's another reason why Andrew Bond comes from that very part of Scotland.

True.

I've also found it hard to fathom why Fleming would throw in a bit of Scottish ancestry into Bond's background purely because of Connery. After all, didn't Fleming disapprove of Connery's casting, referring to him as an 'overgrown stunt man'...?

Back on topic, i've always liked Judi Dench's M. It was refreshing to see the M-Bond dynamic develop into something more than employer-employee. That said I do think after 7 films, this is probably the most appropriate time to leave. I find it hard to see their relationship surviving after the events of Skyfall.

[DamnCoffee]

Just a thought I had.

Spoiler

You know the shot in the trailer? Bond missing the target during practice? Well, what if this is foreshadowing M's death. Maybe Bond accidently shoots her, meaning to hit something else.

[SecretAgentFan]

Very difficult. At the beginning of the film Bond can have lost his abilities a bit. But at the end he should be in control again.

Maybe it would be interesting if even the best agent like 007 can not prevent something he is trained for?

[Pussfeller]

Plausible idea, Mharkin, given that...

Spoiler

M is apparently hit in the crossfire between Bond and Silva, and it isn't entirely clear whose bullet hits her.

.

Assuming that rumor is true, I love the idea of Bond and M's relationship ending on such a strange, ambiguous note, with Bond simply not knowing whether his aim was true.