92 replies to this topic

[JCRendle]

Moderators Note: Making this an all purpose thread regarding M / her apparent fate / what she's done etc.


What connect does Silva have to M's past? One thing I've picked up on from the trailer is this:-

Silva: Her two survivors, this is what she made us

Was Silva a MI6 agent? Is he related to her in some way? I'm surprised this line hasn't been pick apart yet, unless I missed it.

Edited by Mharkin, 16 August 2012 - 10:21 AM.

[DamnCoffee]

A few possibilities.

• 'Skyfall' might have been an operation M hushed up during the cold war and maybe left Bond AND Silva orphaned (The two survivors) and Skyfall Lodge was where the operation was based. Andrew and Monique Bond worked with Silvas parents and a lot of other agents at the Lodge during a secret operation (Like Dumbledores Army), all of these agents where killed when the operation went wrong, and somehow, Silva has found out about it. Now he's gunning for her blood. Bond is in the same position as Silva. Which questions his loyalties. M pretty much killed his mother and father.
• Silva was exactly what Bond IS now. He was another 00 Agent, who had a very good relationship with M. They trusted eachother completely, then M left him take the rap for something she did, and now he's free.

Edited by Mharkin, 04 August 2012 - 10:11 PM.

[Vauxhall]

That line is the key to the plot of SKYFALL and determining Silva's motivation. You've both touched upon what I consider the likely scenarios to be, but I haven't settled on one that I consider to be the most likely.

I'd rather they didn't go too much into the intricacies of their parents personally, but I think Bond and Silva are certainly former colleagues at the very least, and possibly former friends. We know already that Silva calls Bond "James" at least once.

In terms of everything being connected, I think it's extremely likely that Silva was a former MI6 agent or asset who was sacrificed by M in the same way that Bond is during the pre-title sequence in Turkey. I expect the movie will go on to show the extreme contrast between how Bond and Silva respond to that form of 'betrayal'. The line about "this is what she made us" bolsters my conviction that he was formerly a MI6 operative under M's command, and she played a major part in his recruitment.

I know Shrublands also has some theories about this which he'll probably be sharing when he's next around.

[JimmyBond]

but I think Bond and Silva are certainly former colleagues at the very least, and possibly former friends. We know already that Silva calls Bond "James" at least once.

Unless you know something I don't, I find this highly unlikely. I see no recognition on Bond's part. Sure they could have edited the trailer in such a way to remove this link, I just find it unlikely. I think the more logical explanation is that he was once an MI6 agent, but that Bond never knew.

[x007AceOfSpades]

I really got the vibe that the two of them have met prior to their meeting on the island.

[TheSilhouette]

Here's my hunch.

Spoiler

I think Silva is a former Mi6 agent or someone who worked with Mi6 on an assignment (not a 00 agent), and was left for dead due to one of M's "judgement calls" similar to Bond at the beginning of the film. I think M believes him to be dead and after many many years he decides to come back from the dead and "Think on her sins." Like someone mentioned earlier, I believe Bond and Silva both function as parallel characters showing different responses to a similar situation. What I'm most interested in is why Bond decides to take M to Skyfall of all places, and why he lures Silva and his goons there, as he's fully aware of the impending attack on Skyfall.

Edited by TheSilhouette, 05 August 2012 - 07:14 AM.

[thecasinoroyale]

I think some operation or some former job links Bond and Silva together, and even probably have prior knowledge of eachother. Not to the extent of, say, Bond and Trevelyan from 'GoldenEye', but they know the person and they know their history, and I reckon M is the catalyst for making Silva what he is and why he wants to bring down MI6 itself (out of revenge) and M.

Either way, it's shaping up to be a very interesting story arc!

[Matt_13]

I'm not so sure they know one another, but I do feel as though Silva sees Bond in an almost familial light upon their first meeting, the result of the similarity of their situations. My idea is very much in line with what the rest of you have said, as Bond and Silva were both viewed as necessary losses on separate assignments whose lives were worthless when weighed against the greater good. The difference between the two men is what happened to each during their exile. Bond was prompted to return following an attack on his homeland, motivated by, from what I can tell anyway, a sense of responsibility to his country and his boss, who has, despite sacrificing him, been the closest thing he has had to a maternal figure since childhood. Silva seems to have taken his sacrifice much more personally, and is looking to exact revenge on the organization that he put his life into, yet burned him without hesitation. The film appears to feature the most significant character arc we have ever seen for Bond, even more significant than Casino Royale's. I'm guessing Bond is still a bit bitter about the incident on the bridge despite his return, and Silva's inspection of the wound on his shoulder seems to be his way of reminding Bond what his government was willing to sacrifice. He is a physically and psychologically damaged agent who was nevertheless sent out on a dangerous mission abroad, resulting in Silva pointing out the absurdity and blatant sacrifice that Bond's arrival represents. That irrationality I believe is pointed out by Silva's "This is what she made us" line. I do not believe, however, that they ever worked together or even knew who the other one was until the events of the film begin to unfold. They merely share a similar disposition.

[Shrublands]

I am quite convinced that Bond and Silva know each other, in fact, I think they know each other well.

I don’t think this is about them being casualties of a former assignment, in that they were ‘necessary losses’ and it’s some sort of revenge for that. All 00 agents know perfectly well that they will be sacrificed for the greater good of the mission and the UK. The big picture. They know the responsibility that M holds as the person who may have to make that choice. Hurt feelings, ‘I thought she loved me more than that’ etc could not possibly be what’s behind this.

What she has done must be much worse and much more fundamentally questionable than that. Remember, Bond’s loyalty to her will be called into question by a revelation from her past. So, what could that be, given the above?

I agree that the line ‘Her two survivors, this is what she made us.’ Is key.
Other things that I consider important are…
Bond’s reaction to ‘Skyfall’, in the word association. Coupled with the word being used at all in the evaluation process.
Bond taking M to Skyfall and knowing that Silva will follow.
And...
Big spoiler,

Spoiler

Silva dies in the small graveyard where Bond’s family is buried.

The filmmakers have gone to a lot of trouble to make this the case, it has to be of vital significance.

M's past misdemeanor and Silva must have a strong connection with Bond’s family and Skyfall Lodge.

[Matt_13]

Well...wish I hadn't read that spoiler. How on earth do you know that?

[Shrublands]

As we are in the spoiler section, I only ever put the extra caution of a spoiler tab on particularly sensitive information.
I don't want to say from where I got this, just that I firmly believe that it's true. Hope that's ok.

[Matt_13]

Yeah no big, and I knew what I was getting into. I'm just surprised that sort of thing is out.

[Vauxhall]

To add to Shrublands' spoiler, I also understand that piece of information to be correct. I've been puzzling for quite a while about how it ties into the characters' back history but to no avail.

It certainly suggests to me that Bond and Silva have a very specific and important prior relationship, but I can't really settle on what it's likely to be at this stage.

[Shrublands]

To add to Shrublands' spoiler, I also understand that piece of information to be correct. I've been puzzling for quite a while about how it ties into the characters' back history but to no avail.

It certainly suggests to me that Bond and Silva have a very specific and important prior relationship, but I can't really settle on what it's likely to be at this stage.

I feel the same way. At the moment, I'd say that this one needs a bit more information before I can form a proper theory.

Another bit of info that might help people along is - After M visits Silva in the isolation chamber, (the bit we've seen in the international trailer) she 'confesses' something to Bond.
What, I don't know - but this also sounds like a very important moment.

[Colonel Moon]

Silva is Bonds brother thats why hes blonde

[glidrose]

Silva is Bond's brother thats why he's blonde

No joke, I already hinted at that here in a non-spoiler thread. Okay, so I did more than hint.

Maybe Bond's father and M had an affair and Bardem was the offspring? M abandoned the child; Macao missionaries raised the child as one of their own. As bizarre and unlikely as it is, I've had my fill of renegade British agents, thank you.

[Pussfeller]

I certainly hope M doesn't turn out to be anybody's mother. But if Shrublands' spoiler is true, it certainly looks like Silva is family to Bond, or at least believes that he is. Sir Andrew might have fathered an illegitimate son.

Incidentally, I wonder if M's famously sarcastic children will finally make an appearance.

[JCRendle]

I really don't see them messing with the established Bond history that much. While the fact that Bond is half Scottish is due to the film series, Bond's history is canon, the fact that respected it enough whilst making Casino Royale to include his (updated) dossier on the website shows that they respect the literary legacy.

I really hope they don't add a major event like one of Bond's parents having an affair or change the circumstances around their deaths, as it would mean a major change for one film that will likely be retconed or forgotten in subsequent films.

[Shrublands]

Sir Andrew might have fathered an illegitimate son.

Sir Andrew?

[glidrose]

I certainly hope M doesn't turn out to be anybody's mother.

Silva does call M "Mummy" in the trailer when he's interrogating Bond.

[Pussfeller]

Sir Andrew might have fathered an illegitimate son.

Sir Andrew?

I thought that was part of the rebooted backstory. Posters here have been frequently referring to him as "Sir Andrew". If this is wrong, I wonder how it got started.

[The Shark]

I certainly hope M doesn't turn out to be anybody's mother.

Silva does call M "Mummy" in the trailer when he's interrogating Bond.

Thought he was just taunting him.

[Jim]

On the He Done Said Mummy logic, Mr Wright's interpretation of the challenging role of Felix Leiter establishes that the said Leiter is James Bond's brother.

[Pussfeller]

Not biologically, of course. But both were independently adopted by Vavra.

[Shrublands]

Sir Andrew might have fathered an illegitimate son.

Sir Andrew?

I thought that was part of the rebooted backstory. Posters here have been frequently referring to him as "Sir Andrew". If this is wrong, I wonder how it got started.

Have they? Can't imagine how it got started. No sensible reason as far as I know.
I've seen rubbish about 'Sir' Ian Fleming around the net too - I don't know how that started either.
That'a the inter web for you.

[JCRendle]

Looking on the Casino Royale dossier on the films website, it has no mention of Sirs, so it looks like it's just something that started out of nowhere.

[Pussfeller]

And I notice that the Skyfall Lodge tombstone shows simply "Andrew Bond".

[Shrublands]

I think it might be useful to think on why Skyfall Lodge and the chapel are in such disrepair.
If the Bond family has fallen on less prosperous times, why not sell the estate or at least do something with it?
To me, the boarded up windows and the ruined look of the chapel etc. must be part of what’s behind all this.

[Shrublands]

I think Silva is after something very specific. I think he has reason to hate M and Mi6 and a lot of his actions are motivated by revenge, but there is something else.
He could have killed M on a number of occasions, but has chosen not to do so. The MI6 explosion – he wanted her to see it. Breaking into the Whitehall office with a gun, dressed as a policeman.

Spoiler

With M being killed towards the end – she dies in Bond’s arms, in the chapel. I’m very certain this is true.

I suspect that Silva must have achieved his objective and has stoppered toying with her.
I think that there must be something at Skyfall that he has wanted all along. Bond and M know it is dangerous to lead him there, but it’s the only way to bring this to an end.

Edited by Mharkin, 16 August 2012 - 10:18 AM.

[DamnCoffee]

Spoiler

If she does die. I wonder how she's killed. Shot? Most likely explanation.

Maybe Bond tells M to take cover there, during the attack, Bond realises Silva is heading there. Bond goes after him, and Silva finds her, and they have the big reveal / confrontation. Silvas reasons etc. Then he shoots her. Quick and easy, but still manages to make her suffer. Then he leaves, and Bond stays with her before going after Silva.