781 replies to this topic

[larrythefatcat]

CASINO ROYALE was never developed with Brosnan in mind.

This is untrue. The first draft by Purvis and Wade was written for Brosnan, but that was in early 2004 and quite a bit later than I previously thought.

So the writers' strike and the abundance of rejected scripts are the only remaining factors that made a considerable difference development-wise.

Edited by larrythefatcat, 27 April 2012 - 06:16 PM.

[L4YRCAKE]

CASINO ROYALE was never developed with Brosnan in mind.

This is untrue. The first draft by Purvis and Wade was written for Brosnan, but that was in early 2004 and quite a bit later than I previously thought.

So the writers' strike and the abundance of rejected scripts are the only remaining factors that made a considerable difference development-wise.

You sure about that? I do recall that Brosnan and Quentin Tarantino approached the producers to do Casino Royale and were rejected outright, and told that a new actor who had not been chosen yet would be playing Bond.

And what's this about 'Vesper's Child'...? I'd not heard about that before...??

[Dustin]

There apparently was an idea floating for some time to use Vesper's child as a hook for QOS. Whether that child would actually have appeared or just been a McGuffin - no idea. But Bond interacting with children (or on their behalf) would have been probably dangerously close to Indiana Jones. If rumours are to be believed that idea was a brainchild of Haggis.

[S K Y F A L L]

I've also heard this story about Brosnan and Tarantino, and I've heard Tarantino tries to take credit for using Casino Royale as the next film.

I would think if Vesper had a child it would mean she was pregnant and just to make Vespers death more dramatic, also Bond's child. Where did this Vesper child rumor/story come from?

BOND 24 IN 2014. Just awsome news. I can only dream Sony or EON will also annoyance the BOND 25 release date as 2016 a few months before the release of BOND 24, as they've done now.

[Double-Oh Agent]

Great news. Glad we'll only have to wait two years for the next one. Three years is a little long, and four years is too much.

To me, this also is a strong indication that Daniel Craig will indeed be back for a fourth Bond film. Why announce you will be doing Bond 24 before 23 even comes out if you weren't already sure the main players were already on board. Were Craig to cease being Bond, I think EON would opt take an extra year off to go over the Bond #7 candidates, decide which route they wanted to take the character, and try to ensure a really solid script for the new 007.

[L4YRCAKE]

I'd have to imagine the child wasn't supposed to be Bond's, he and Vesper seemed inseparable during their brief romance and I can't imagine her sneaking off and having a child of his without him knowing. Even if she somehow had, that'd be tricky territory, I don't think children should be off limits in Bond films by any means, but adding one to the story as some sort of attempt to be more family friendly or marketable would be a gross breach of the character. I read somewhere that Mendes has made some rules for his Bond such as that Bond doesn't have colleagues of his own age, only older people and women so that there's tension with his interactions with the other characters (and I may have really mis-quoted what Mendes said those rules were, but it was something along those lines and it sounded like an interesting theory), but I like that he's put so much thought into how Bond works as a character and enriching what a Bond film both should and can be.

And with that said, I'm going to predict here and now that Sam Mendes makes at least two more Bond films and Daniel Craig agrees to the five more the producers want, unless Skyfall is an utter failure, which I highly doubt.

[Harmsway]

There apparently was an idea floating for some time to use Vesper's child as a hook for QOS. Whether that child would actually have appeared or just been a McGuffin - no idea. But Bond interacting with children (or on their behalf) would have been probably dangerously close to Indiana Jones. If rumours are to be believed that idea was a brainchild of Haggis.

It's not a rumor. Haggis spoke openly about it in an interview.

[Pussfeller]

It's a dreadful idea. It's horrifying that it was even considered.

[Dustin]

There apparently was an idea floating for some time to use Vesper's child as a hook for QOS. Whether that child would actually have appeared or just been a McGuffin - no idea. But Bond interacting with children (or on their behalf) would have been probably dangerously close to Indiana Jones. If rumours are to be believed that idea was a brainchild of Haggis.

It's not a rumor. Haggis spoke openly about it in an interview.

Ah, I wasn't sure about that any more. Was that while he alone was working on the next script? Because it baffles me he wasn't stopped by P&W or EON right from the start.

It's a dreadful idea. It's horrifying that it was even considered.

Well, it could have been played different ways. But indeed - none of them seem particularly promising. It would have changed the direction drastically, and not for the better.

[Harmsway]

Ah, I wasn't sure about that any more. Was that while he alone was working on the next script? Because it baffles me he wasn't stopped by P&W or EON right from the start.

It was after P&W. Forster came in, didn't like P&W's draft, and pretty much threw that aside wholesale. So P&W were more or less out of the loop at that point.

Haggis came in with his "Vesper's child" idea and started writing that draft, but before he could finish it, EON and/or Forster decided the idea wasn't worth pursuing, and Haggis ended up in the position of hastily scribbling out a draft before the strike.

[Dustin]

Ah, I wasn't sure about that any more. Was that while he alone was working on the next script? Because it baffles me he wasn't stopped by P&W or EON right from the start.

It was after P&W. Forster came in, didn't like P&W's draft, and pretty much threw that aside wholesale. So P&W were more or less out of the loop at that point.

Haggis came in with his "Vesper's child" idea and started writing that draft, but before he could finish it, EON and/or Forster decided the idea wasn't worth pursuing, and Haggis ended up in the position of hastily scribbling out a draft before the strike.

Did Haggis ever go into any detail how he figuered the child would appear? If at all?

[Vauxhall]

Ah, I wasn't sure about that any more. Was that while he alone was working on the next script? Because it baffles me he wasn't stopped by P&W or EON right from the start.

It was after P&W. Forster came in, didn't like P&W's draft, and pretty much threw that aside wholesale. So P&W were more or less out of the loop at that point.

Haggis came in with his "Vesper's child" idea and started writing that draft, but before he could finish it, EON and/or Forster decided the idea wasn't worth pursuing, and Haggis ended up in the position of hastily scribbling out a draft before the strike.

Did Haggis ever go into any detail how he figuered the child would appear? If at all?

At the time, Marc Forster said the following:

"Haggis had an idea they weren't fond of, and I didn't know if it would work or not. The idea was that Vesper in the last movie, maybe she had a kid, and there would be an orphan out there. It wasn't anything to insult the franchise. But they felt it wasn't particularly Bond - him looking for the kid. I think Paul thought he just leaves the kid, he doesn't deal with it. But [the producers] thought that would be really nasty, too, because Bond was an orphan himself. If he would find a kid, would he just leave it? They were so vehemently against it. That was the only time I saw, really, 'No, we can't do that.' They said, 'Once he finds the kid, Bond can't just leave the kid. It's not right.'"

[Pussfeller]

I'm glad the producers nipped that in the bud. After all the cautionary examples that have accumulated over the years, it amazes me that movie people still think it's a good idea to shoe-horn children into adult-oriented films.

This is why I'm glad Spielberg was never able to direct a Bond film. He would have given Bond a freckle-faced ragamuffin for a sidekick.

[Dustin]

Thanks for that, Vauxhall. Looks like we dodged a bullet there.

I thought the child could have been just a red herring, something to set Vesper up and get a lever on her that's stronger than just the affair with the 'Romeo' agent. Bond could have learned about this and later find out the kid was already dead. Still, it would have changed the emphasis even more towards drama, something that Bond films have to tread softly, softly...

[JimmyBond]

I think the more interesting question is, what was P&W's draft like, and why did it get thrown out as well.

[Harmsway]

It was largely Forster who didn't like it. Not sure why.

[Pushkin]

They had a lot riding on QOS being a sequel as such, it wouldn't surprise me if they already have a story in mind for Bond 24.

I hope if they are aiming for 2014 that they have already hired a writer and that they are quietly working on the first draft of a story/script. If they were really smart, they would have already done this with the time off they had when Skyfall was delayed. I think that one of the major reasons CR was such a success was that they had a great story to draw upon. They need to develop one for Bond 24 and I think that will be the hardest part of making it a great film.

Cheers

[SecretAgentFan]

Shhh! Listen!

Is that P & W typing away in the distance?

[AMC Hornet]

In a case like the Bond series, can you really tailor a script before you have feedback from the last film?

What if Skyfall had been written during the production of QoS, and was based on the premise that all of Forster's departures from the formula were going to meet with success? The last three years would have been spent rewriting that script anyway.

I'd rather let the brain trust at EON consider the professional and fan reviews from SF before planning the next project. It doesn't have to take a year to write a script, and for all the rushed changes, I rather enjoyed the potential mess that turned out to be Tomorrow Never Dies.

[x007AceOfSpades]

Concerning Tarantino's Casino Royale, he wanted Brosnan as Bond of course, but wanted the lead actress to be played by Uma Thurman, shot in black & white, set in the 50's or 60's.
Unfortunately, when Brosnan was not rehired and EON was seeking a young actor for a Casino Royale, Tarantino very publicly berated the producers and refused to have anything more to do with the project.
Funny thing is that EON never contacted him to write and/or direct the film. He was never attached.

[DominicGreene]

Concerning Tarantino's Casino Royale, he wanted Brosnan as Bond of course, but wanted the lead actress to be played by Uma Thurman, shot in black & white, set in the 50's or 60's.
Unfortunately, when Brosnan was not rehired and EON was seeking a young actor for a Casino Royale, Tarantino very publicly berated the producers and refused to have anything more to do with the project.
Funny thing is that EON never contacted him to write and/or direct the film. He was never attached.

I'd personally like to see a Tarantino Bond film.

Edited by DominicGreene, 30 April 2012 - 07:39 PM.

[x007AceOfSpades]

Concerning Tarantino's Casino Royale, he wanted Brosnan as Bond of course, but wanted the lead actress to be played by Uma Thurman, shot in black & white, set in the 50's or 60's.
Unfortunately, when Brosnan was not rehired and EON was seeking a young actor for a Casino Royale, Tarantino very publicly berated the producers and refused to have anything more to do with the project.
Funny thing is that EON never contacted him to write and/or direct the film. He was never attached.

I'd personally like to see a Tarantino Bond film.

If he doesn't get carried away and doesn't bring us a 120 minute dialogue film with un-interesting characters other than James. I've nothing against him, I just think his last few films have been below par.
I'm hoping for Matthew Vaughn or David Cronenberg for Bond 24. The last good Tarantino film I saw was Jacky Brown, and that wasn't even an original script, it was simply an adaption of Elmore Leonard's "Rum Punch" so I guess you can say Kill Bill was his last original film.

[DominicGreene]

Concerning Tarantino's Casino Royale, he wanted Brosnan as Bond of course, but wanted the lead actress to be played by Uma Thurman, shot in black & white, set in the 50's or 60's.
Unfortunately, when Brosnan was not rehired and EON was seeking a young actor for a Casino Royale, Tarantino very publicly berated the producers and refused to have anything more to do with the project.
Funny thing is that EON never contacted him to write and/or direct the film. He was never attached.

I'd personally like to see a Tarantino Bond film.

If he doesn't get carried away and doesn't bring us a 120 minute dialogue film with un-interesting characters other than James. I've nothing against him, I just think his last few films have been below par.
I'm hoping for Matthew Vaughn or David Cronenberg for Bond 24. The last good Tarantino film I saw was Jacky Brown, and that wasn't even an original script, it was simply an adaption of Elmore Leonard's "Rum Punch" so I guess you can say Kill Bill was his last original film.

Really? I found that Kill Bill and Inglourious Basterds were well done. I'd like Matthew Vaughn as well, and also Danny Boyle, David Fincher, Christopher Nolan, etc. Haven't seen any of Cronenberg, but he's Canadian so I'm all for it!

[x007AceOfSpades]

Concerning Tarantino's Casino Royale, he wanted Brosnan as Bond of course, but wanted the lead actress to be played by Uma Thurman, shot in black & white, set in the 50's or 60's.
Unfortunately, when Brosnan was not rehired and EON was seeking a young actor for a Casino Royale, Tarantino very publicly berated the producers and refused to have anything more to do with the project.
Funny thing is that EON never contacted him to write and/or direct the film. He was never attached.

I'd personally like to see a Tarantino Bond film.

If he doesn't get carried away and doesn't bring us a 120 minute dialogue film with un-interesting characters other than James. I've nothing against him, I just think his last few films have been below par.
I'm hoping for Matthew Vaughn or David Cronenberg for Bond 24. The last good Tarantino film I saw was Jacky Brown, and that wasn't even an original script, it was simply an adaption of Elmore Leonard's "Rum Punch" so I guess you can say Kill Bill was his last original film.

Really? I found that Kill Bill and Inglourious Basterds were well done. I'd like Matthew Vaughn as well, and also Danny Boyle, David Fincher, Christopher Nolan, etc. Haven't seen any of Cronenberg, but he's Canadian so I'm all for it!

All good Directors you listed. Check out A History Of Violence and Eastern Promises from Cronenberg, those are some of his bests. His latest film about Carl Jung and Sigmund Freud I haven't see, but I'm waiting for it to get released on dvd.

[thecasinoroyale]

God, you've never had such an over-rated director than Quentin Tarantino. A few of his films are ok-ish, others are just rubbish on face value.

If here were attatched to a Bond, I wouldn't be a happy chap. And his idea of 'Casino Royale'...mm, not for me. Or anyone else wanting a decent Bond film!


Rant over!

[SecretAgentFan]

God, you've never had such an over-rated director than Quentin Tarantino. A few of his films are ok-ish, others are just rubbish on face value.

If here were attatched to a Bond, I wouldn't be a happy chap. And his idea of 'Casino Royale'...mm, not for me. Or anyone else wanting a decent Bond film!


Rant over!

Why? I agree with you absolutely.

Let me say this: During my university years Tarantino had his big break. RESERVOIR DOGS and then PULP FICTION. Everybody went nuts for him - and so did I. Then came JACKIE BROWN and the love cooled a little off. I still liked the film but also got the feeling that his style was becoming a bit too familiar, too self-indulgent. I was hoping he could prove me and the other naysayers wrong with his future films. He could not. His praised dialogue-writing is just rambling, his use of cuss-words is not shocking anymore but only lazy, his plotting is far-fetched, and his characters always inhabit a stylized fantasy world, thereby robbing them of every ounce of credibility that could make them interesting beyond the caricature. Even his choice of songs instead of traditional scoring is nothing new but again a trick he copied from better films.

Yet, he still gets hailed as a director of the highest originality. In fact, he rips off other films again and again. When will he ever do a film that is not inspired by/copied from previous films?

Could he do a good Bond film?

I don´t think so. Bond would become a blabbermouth, the villain would torture with extreme violence and violently-tired punchlines, the plot would be told in chapters, and every critic would fawn over it as the best Bond film ever although it definitely would not achieve this at all.

[x007AceOfSpades]

I agree TheCasinoRoyale and SecretAgentFan, I saw Inglorious Basterds thinking it was going to be a hard edge WWII action/revenge film. What I got was lots of uninteresting characters, dragged on dialogue, and short lived action scenes in a 140 minute time frame. The fact the film changed history a bit was a slap in the face for me. The fact it got an Oscar nomination is big WOW.

Death Proof was his 2nd part of the Rodriguez/Tarantino Grindhouse film and was it like all his other films (need I share as SecretAgentFan nailed it) There's a reason why I own only Planet Terror of Grindhouse and not Death Proof. Yeah I love Kurt Russell and I do think Mary Elizabeth Winstead is very attractive, but it's not enough for me to even care about the film.

Both Kill Bill films were just rip offs of Kung-Fu Samurai films. Jackie Brown was a good movie, His last good film, but as I said, It was an adaption and not an original story, therefore making Pulp Fiction his original film, but once again he didn't do all of it, he had help with Roger Avery. Reservoir Dogs is a great film no doubt, once again he had help with Roger Avery. The central idea in Reservoir Dogs which is the bank robbery gone wrong was an Idea Tarantino used from career criminal/screenwriter/actor Eddie Bunker. Bunker had a small part in the film as Mr. Blue. He's been in other films and was the screenwriter of the film Runaway Train and even gave Danny Trejo his first big break in the industry with a small part in Runaway Train.

Bunker told Tarantino about a bank job he did that went wrong and the backstory to it all and how it landed him back in prison and whatnot. So Tarantino used it and wrote a script based on Bunker's story. What did he do? Gave him a small little role into the film and Story or screenwriting credit.

Is there anything original about this man? Oh, and his new film Django Unchained.

[L4YRCAKE]

Concerning Tarantino's Casino Royale, he wanted Brosnan as Bond of course, but wanted the lead actress to be played by Uma Thurman, shot in black & white, set in the 50's or 60's.
Unfortunately, when Brosnan was not rehired and EON was seeking a young actor for a Casino Royale, Tarantino very publicly berated the producers and refused to have anything more to do with the project.
Funny thing is that EON never contacted him to write and/or direct the film. He was never attached.

I'd personally like to see a Tarantino Bond film.

If he doesn't get carried away and doesn't bring us a 120 minute dialogue film with un-interesting characters other than James. I've nothing against him, I just think his last few films have been below par.
I'm hoping for Matthew Vaughn or David Cronenberg for Bond 24. The last good Tarantino film I saw was Jacky Brown, and that wasn't even an original script, it was simply an adaption of Elmore Leonard's "Rum Punch" so I guess you can say Kill Bill was his last original film.

Really? I found that Kill Bill and Inglourious Basterds were well done. I'd like Matthew Vaughn as well, and also Danny Boyle, David Fincher, Christopher Nolan, etc. Haven't seen any of Cronenberg, but he's Canadian so I'm all for it!

All good Directors you listed. Check out A History Of Violence and Eastern Promises from Cronenberg, those are some of his bests. His latest film about Carl Jung and Sigmund Freud I haven't see, but I'm waiting for it to get released on dvd.

I'm a huge fan of Cronenberg and the idea of him or Tarantino doing a Bond film is exciting, but to me more in theory than in practice. It seems to me that those type of directors make films that have a common thread that has more to do about themselves than the films they're making, brilliant as they are at times. I think the irony of choosing a good Bond director is that he (or she) would have to subvert themselves to the material so the film is all about Bond. Some pretty famous names have been turned down from directing a Bond film, Speilberg in particular was pursuiing one for years which is why George Lucas presented him with his ideas for Indiana Jones, or Indiana Smith as he called him at the time...

I can't tell you how excited I am to see how Sam Mendes folds his own tastes and sensibilities into a film that by all accounts so far looks to be one of the greats.

[Vauxhall]

I think that some of the trajectory of BOND 24 may well be dictated by whatever happens in SKYFALL. That's not to say I think it will end up being a sequel per se, but I imagine there will be some points which need following up on.

[L4YRCAKE]

I think that some of the trajectory of BOND 24 may well be dictated by whatever happens in SKYFALL. That's not to say I think it will end up being a sequel per se, but I imagine there will be some points which need following up on.

I both agree and disagree. It seems that in all non-Craig Bond films the continuity reset button got punched immediately following every film. There were vague references to other films but they were enigmatic usually, as in Roger Moore's mention of Tracy in The Spy Who Loved Me.

The big question is whether Blofeld, and for that matter, SPECTRE, are back in this film, if so then there will probably be a common thread with all or most of the Craig films. Sort of like how X-Files balanced its monster of the week with the ongoing ufo/government conspiracy storyline. With that said, I think Skyfall will be its own film, and 24 won't be a sequel per se. I think a lot's riding on this one to solidify Bond again after the bad rap Quantum Of Solace got. If it's a huge success I could see the films start to tread even closer to the Fleming novels, as many of the novels ended on a cliffhanger that led into the next story, and the women didn't just magically disappear in order to make room for the next one. Tiffany Case left Bond for a banker and he was very bitter about it in the novels, for example.