428 replies to this topic

[Shrublands]

But Great Britain is not a country, said he pedantically.

You are quite right sir. But it’s a physiological word association, not a geography exam.
They should have gone for something else, “Nationality” – “British”, perhaps.
But why engineer a situation where Bond says “England” for “Country” in this of all films?

[Simon]

Not sure sir. But there was a sort of precedence in GE.

'For England James?'

[Shrublands]

Not sure sir. But there was a sort of precedence in GE.

'For England James?'

And TSWLM - “So does England.” But this is a different Bond in a different continuity. Beginning with CR, he’s more connected with the literary 007 and we're about to see where he comes from – Scotland.

[Simon]

This is a good point.

Perhaps we will see later in the film he has points knocked off for getting the answer wrong.

Thing is, does a jonny foreigner footballer 'play for' his UK team or does he for some reason say he is still playing for his home country? Bond works for England I am guessing but for the most part only shoots people abroad.

It's very tricky but I am confident all will become clear.

[Shrublands]

Yes, I’d find it much better if something was made of his answer as part of his psychological examination.
If the analyst were to say in his evaluation, “Curious for a man born in Scotland to say 'England' so quickly, so emphatically.”

[Pussfeller]

He was born in West Germany, according to the official biography.

[Shrublands]

He was born in West Germany, according to the official biography.

John Pearson's "official" biography - Eon don't seems interested in continuation lit.
It would make for a spellbinding moment.

Bond is in psychological examination...
"Nationality"
"German"

[Shrublands]

I think Pussfeller meant the biography that was on the official CR website.

Did that say, "Born in West Germany", really?

[Pussfeller]

I think it did. I never read it, but people mentioned it on the forums.

Anyway, I think you make a very interesting point. If I had been asked to guess what "country" Bond identifies with, I'd have said "Britain", notwithstanding all the previous references to "England".

But I'm not so sure that Bond would identify as Scottish. I agree that the average Briton (or American, for that matter), possessing mixed heritage, will naturally favor the more picturesque lineage. In that sense, it rings false for Bond to claim England as his country. On the other hand, he's obviously not Scottish in the sense of being a full-on Scotsman who goes around all Scottish-like. His father was a Scot. As an orphan, Bond never had a chance to assimilate the subtleties of that cultural identity. Born abroad and raised largely in England, his sense of identity is bound to be vague and idiosyncratic. He might well identify more with England, the land where he was educated. And he might have "issues" with Scotland, since it is a part of his family history but not something that he can really claim first-hand. If this is the case, it would make an interesting wrinkle in the plot. Perhaps it could set up a conflict between Bond and the inevitably Scottish Kincade.

[JCRendle]

sonypictures.com/movies/casinoroyale/site_html/dossier/index.php

Bond was born in West Berlin, Germany, on 13th April 1968

[univex]

No, Andrew Bond was. At least according to those files. Bond was born in Glencoe, Scotland. His father was born in west Berlin, and his mother was born in Switzerland.

[marktmurphy]

I must say I find the “Country” – “England” exchange grindingly wrong.
Speaking as a Celt who has lived my entire adult life in England, I would never say “England” in such a context. No self respecting Celt would. For a film that goes to such lengths to show us that Bond was born in Scotland to a Scottish father,with a long Scottish heritage, this seems to smack of an American writer just getting it wrong, very wrong. If they didn’t want to have him say “Scotland”, “Britain” would be more than expectable for Bond in this film, but not “England”.

Britain isn't a country. Bond knows that.

After years of 'For England' etc. it seems a bit churlish to get upset it now. Bond fights for the UK, if pressed for a country he'll say England. Probably because he lives there, has an English accent and its population dwarves those of the other countries in the UK. Plus he was born in Germany.

No, Andrew Bond was. At least according to those files. Bond was born in Glencoe, Scotland. His father was born in west Berlin, and his mother was born in Switzerland.

His father was born the same year he was?

[Shrublands]

I must say I find the “Country” – “England” exchange grindingly wrong.
Speaking as a Celt who has lived my entire adult life in England, I would never say “England” in such a context. No self respecting Celt would. For a film that goes to such lengths to show us that Bond was born in Scotland to a Scottish father,with a long Scottish heritage, this seems to smack of an American writer just getting it wrong, very wrong. If they didn’t want to have him say “Scotland”, “Britain” would be more than expectable for Bond in this film, but not “England”.

Britain isn't a country. Bond knows that.

After years of 'For England' etc. it seems a bit churlish to get upset it now. Bond fights for the UK, if pressed for a country he'll say England. Probably because he lives there, has an English accent and its population dwarves those of the other countries in the UK. Plus he was born in Germany.

My point was, that it seems odd to have engineered this exchange in a film where they go to such lengths to display his Scottish heritage.

[marktmurphy]

I don't think so, no. He's only lived there for four years while he was at school; he's not exactly a Scotsman all the way through. If he suddenly said he was fighting for Scotland I think it'd be a bit confusing and seem like he doesn't care for the majority of the UK.
Like it or not, in a lot of peoples' eyes around the world 'England' and 'UK' are interchangable terms.

[Marketto007]

So...no leaks yet. Gosh!

xxx

[Matt_13]

I don't think so, no. He's only lived there for four years while he was at school; he's not exactly a Scotsman all the way through. If he suddenly said he was fighting for Scotland I think it'd be a bit confusing and seem like he doesn't care for the majority of the UK.
Like it or not, in a lot of peoples' eyes around the world 'England' and 'UK' are interchangable terms.

Yup.

[Vauxhall]

I must say I find the “Country” – “England” exchange grindingly wrong.
Speaking as a Celt who has lived my entire adult life in England, I would never say “England” in such a context. No self respecting Celt would. For a film that goes to such lengths to show us that Bond was born in Scotland to a Scottish father,with a long Scottish heritage, this seems to smack of an American writer just getting it wrong, very wrong. If they didn’t want to have him say “Scotland”, “Britain” would be more than expectable for Bond in this film, but not “England”.

Totally agreed. Also as a Celt, this winds me up no end! I should say that's more of a 'real world' gripe though, rather than annoyance at the movie world.

[Shrublands]

I don't think so, no. He's only lived there for four years while he was at school; he's not exactly a Scotsman all the way through. If he suddenly said he was fighting for Scotland I think it'd be a bit confusing and seem like he doesn't care for the majority of the UK.
Like it or not, in a lot of peoples' eyes around the world 'England' and 'UK' are interchangable terms.

For people around the word they might be, but not for people in the UK and I’m not suggesting that he ever would or should say he was fighting for Scotland.
Apparently in Skyfall Bond talks about his childhood in Scotland when on the road with M – so things are a bit different.

Anyway, my main point is this – It’s a script that talks about Bond’s Scottish heritage, his childhood in Scotland and is named after the Bond ancestral estate in Scotland. The climax takes Bond to that land of his father’s – Scotland. But the trailer kicks-in and the first thing that the film makers want to show us is that in a psychological word association test “Country” = “England” for Bond.

Now this is either a mistake because...

Like it or not, in a lot of peoples' eyes around the world 'England' and 'UK' are interchangable terms.

...As you put it, or it has some psychological importance in the story of Skyfall, as I suggest in one of my above posts.

[The Shark]

Like it or not, in a lot of peoples' eyes around the world 'England' and 'UK' are interchangable terms.

...As you put it, or it has some psychological importance in the story of Skyfall, as I suggest in one of my above posts.

This is what I've got my money on.

[SecretAgentFan]

Only on a message board can this be discussed...

[Royal Dalton]

Big Tam himself said: "The things I do for England." So, it's not without precedent.

The interrogation situation itself is interesting, though. It sounds like they think Bond might have been turned and was involved in the plot against MI6.

[Single-O-Seven]

Sounds splendid.

Agent Provocateur is almost certainly a reference to the lingerie company. Nice little gag.

I'm guessing it may be a direct plot reference. After all, we know Bardem's character disguises himself in a position where he may act as an agent provocateur. Given that we don't know where the interrogation scene occurs (or do we?), Bond may be reflecting on the actual actions of said agent.

No, Andrew Bond was. At least according to those files. Bond was born in Glencoe, Scotland. His father was born in west Berlin, and his mother was born in Switzerland.

Would there even have been a "West" Berlin when his father was born?

[MattofSteel]

It's true - to many of us outside, England/UK/Britain are fairly interchangeable terms. Ignorance on our part, certainly. But reality - and especially for the general moviegoing audience, who I daresay won't care.

[Ry]

I was extremely lucky to have the chance to see the SkyFall teaser trailer yesterday at CinemaCon. It is amazing! As I work in the industry I can't really say much, but that it is a truly teaser trailer and none of the plot is really given. You can go over to http://www.darkhoriz...uts-bond-24-set and read all about. I have a very good feeling about the movie.

[marktmurphy]

I don't think so, no. He's only lived there for four years while he was at school; he's not exactly a Scotsman all the way through. If he suddenly said he was fighting for Scotland I think it'd be a bit confusing and seem like he doesn't care for the majority of the UK.
Like it or not, in a lot of peoples' eyes around the world 'England' and 'UK' are interchangable terms.

For people around the word they might be, but not for people in the UK and I’m not suggesting that he ever would or should say he was fighting for Scotland.
Apparently in Skyfall Bond talks about his childhood in Scotland when on the road with M – so things are a bit different.

Please don't get too spoilery. I know we're in the spoiler section, but it's only a thread about the trailer- I don't really want to read stuff like that.

Anyway, my main point is this – It’s a script that talks about Bond’s Scottish heritage, his childhood in Scotland and is named after the Bond ancestral estate in Scotland. The climax takes Bond to that land of his father’s – Scotland. But the trailer kicks-in and the first thing that the film makers want to show us is that in a psychological word association test “Country” = “England” for Bond.

Now this is either a mistake because...

Like it or not, in a lot of peoples' eyes around the world 'England' and 'UK' are interchangable terms.

...As you put it, or it has some psychological importance in the story of Skyfall, as I suggest in one of my above posts.

I don't think so. He can have fondness for Scotland and the idea of having Scottish heritage (like Connery! ) but not actually consider it his home or the place he associates with as the flagpost he nails his colours to.
Or, yeah; perhaps he's trying to cover up the existence of his home there (which would be odd: you wouldn't think that'd be easy to cover up, having been part of the family for centuries).

[Matt_13]

What was the Bond theme like?

[thecasinoroyale]

Shouldn't this be in the Teaser Trailer - Discussion thread? It'll be more or less the same stuff if Ry wants to describe it.

Do want to know about the music though..such an important part I think in a Bond film trailer - a real selling point to me IMHO,

[Leon]

The music used in teaser trailers is not the actual film score - it won't even be written by Newman, it's all made by third party trailer developers - hence why all trailers these days are generally the same.

I look foreward to seeing glimpses of footage, but the rest will probably just be the same old choral "AH OH EH AH OH EH!" rubbish. How to make something sound 'epic' - now let's do it for EVERY MOVIE.

[Leon]

It's true - to many of us outside, England/UK/Britain are fairly interchangeable terms. Ignorance on our part, certainly. But reality - and especially for the general moviegoing audience, who I daresay won't care.

Mate, I am from England/UK/Britain and I don't give a flip. As long as we get to call the USA Canada/America/New York and just say, 'Oh, well, we're ignorant - that's just reality!'.

:oP

In all seriousness though, I couldn't care less about national borders or pride or 'patriotism', that virtue of the vicious. By now the world is clearly just one planet to me so nothing like this would ever bother me other than for logistical purposes (don't send someone to 'England' when you meant 'Scotland' for example). I also don't think you'll find many folk from the UK that would be actually offended in any way by this stuff, unless ignorant, racist members of the British National Party or something equally lame. 'Brits' generally have nothing but an easy going sense of humour about these things. The only house I know of around my city that regularly flies a St George's cross flag are BNP. Figures.

[Matt_13]

I know Leon, myself and Harkers are just annoyed with the Casino Royale trailer music and are hoping they cooked up something different.