507 replies to this topic

[# 11]

Wasn't SilverFin about a title-giving castle in Scotland and Bond's uncle as a mentor? I'm quite unsure here since I haven't read it for some time and am at Uni, so will have to check later.

[Shrublands]

I'm sure it's Albert Finney's place.

I think Skyfall was Bond's ancestral home, and Finney's character (possibly called Kincade) was a friend of Bond's father, and became something of a surrogate father figure to Bond after Andrew Bond's death (remember the story blurb: "007 must track down and destroy the threat, no matter how personal the cost."), and he bought the house after Bond's parents died.

This is an interesting theory and I think you could be onto something here.

What about an expansion on the, “You didn't come from money, and your school friends never let you forget it. Which means that you were at that school by the grace of someone else's charity,” line?

Kincade (Finney) is a wealthy and highly positioned friend of Andrew Bond. He paid to put Bond through Eton, then closer to home at Fettes. The house has always been Kincade’s, but it became a sort of home for Bond after the death of his parents.

It had seemed that M was a traitor, but as Bond’s investigation reaches its conclusion, he can see it must be Kincade. He and M drive to Scotland to confront him.

Silva and Kincade have different agendas and this leads to the climactic battle at the house. Kincade and M on the moor being tracked by Silva.

Interesting...

"which means you were at that school by the grace of someone else’s charity"

And would explain the slack M gives him all the time. Time to pay back I guess.

Just saw this, yes, I agree.

[univex]

I´d say you guys just cracked it.

[Vauxhall]

I'm sure it's Albert Finney's place.

I think Skyfall was Bond's ancestral home, and Finney's character (possibly called Kincade) was a friend of Bond's father, and became something of a surrogate father figure to Bond after Andrew Bond's death (remember the story blurb: "007 must track down and destroy the threat, no matter how personal the cost."), and he bought the house after Bond's parents died.

This is an interesting theory and I think you could be onto something here.

What about an expansion on the, “You didn't come from money, and your school friends never let you forget it. Which means that you were at that school by the grace of someone else's charity,” line?

Kincade (Finney) is a wealthy and highly positioned friend of Andrew Bond. He paid to put Bond through Eton, then closer to home at Fettes. The house has always been Kincade’s, but it became a sort of home for Bond after the death of his parents.

It had seemed that M was a traitor, but as Bond’s investigation reaches its conclusion, he can see it must be Kincade. He and M drive to Scotland to confront him.

Silva and Kincade have different agendas and this leads to the climactic battle at the house. Kincade and M on the moor being tracked by Silva.

Love all this! Makes perfect sense, and I'd quite happily take that as the reasoning in the film.

[univex]

I would as well. Very well done guys. Now, for the rest of it: what would be Silva´s goal in all this?

[Royal Dalton]

Kincade (Finney) is a wealthy and highly positioned friend of Andrew Bond. He paid to put Bond through Eton, then closer to home at Fettes. The house has always been Kincade’s, but it became a sort of home for Bond after the death of his parents.

Yes, that could be it.

If the gravestone thing is true, it could be that he arranged for Bond's parents to be buried there because he was close to them and because Bond would be staying with him when he wasn't away at boarding school.

[Shrublands]

Kincade (Finney) is a wealthy and highly positioned friend of Andrew Bond. He paid to put Bond through Eton, then closer to home at Fettes. The house has always been Kincade’s, but it became a sort of home for Bond after the death of his parents.

Yes, that could be it.

If the gravestone thing is true, it could be that he arranged for Bond's parents to be buried there because he was close to them and because Bond would be staying with him when he wasn't away at boarding school.

Exactly.


Builders at the site are more likely to be accurate about things like gravestones than the story background of the house. They’ll have the fake graves there in the van or somewhere, so will have seen them.

[Royal Dalton]

Yeah, that's right.

Well, I think we must be on the right lines with this. Now we need to find out how Silva is involved in it all.

[marktmurphy]

On the A3 yesterday I passed one of those Bickers filming cars: a matte black Mercedes 4x4 with a bit camera rig on top. You've seen them in all of the DVD extras: Bourne, Batman, Bond... all the B movies.

[Cody]

I'm sure it's Albert Finney's place.

I think Skyfall was Bond's ancestral home, and Finney's character (possibly called Kincade) was a friend of Bond's father, and became something of a surrogate father figure to Bond after Andrew Bond's death (remember the story blurb: "007 must track down and destroy the threat, no matter how personal the cost."), and he bought the house after Bond's parents died.

This is an interesting theory and I think you could be onto something here.

What about an expansion on the, “You didn't come from money, and your school friends never let you forget it. Which means that you were at that school by the grace of someone else's charity,” line?

Kincade (Finney) is a wealthy and highly positioned friend of Andrew Bond. He paid to put Bond through Eton, then closer to home at Fettes. The house has always been Kincade’s, but it became a sort of home for Bond after the death of his parents.

It had seemed that M was a traitor, but as Bond’s investigation reaches its conclusion, he can see it must be Kincade. He and M drive to Scotland to confront him.

Silva and Kincade have different agendas and this leads to the climactic battle at the house. Kincade and M on the moor being tracked by Silva.

Interesting...

"which means you were at that school by the grace of someone else’s charity"

And would explain the slack M gives him all the time. Time to pay back I guess.

Just saw this, yes, I agree.

I quite like this, though I hope Kincade's traitorous activities didn't somehow involve the death of Bond's parents as well.

[Captain Tightpants]

It had seemed that M was a traitor, but as Bond’s investigation reaches its conclusion, he can see it must be Kincade. He and M drive to Scotland to confront him.

Silva and Kincade have different agendas and this leads to the climactic battle at the house. Kincade and M on the moor being tracked by Silva.

But why does Kincade have to be a traitor? If Albert Finney is Kincade, then he's a "Foreign Office mandarin who is using his power to influence MI6". Can't he have just done something that Bond would seriously disagree with? If he is to be a traitor, then perhaps he could be a traitor in the sense that he betrayed the very principles he taught the young Bond, rather than betraying his country.

[univex]

It had seemed that M was a traitor, but as Bond’s investigation reaches its conclusion, he can see it must be Kincade. He and M drive to Scotland to confront him.

Silva and Kincade have different agendas and this leads to the climactic battle at the house. Kincade and M on the moor being tracked by Silva.

But why does Kincade have to be a traitor? If Albert Finney is Kincade, then he's a "Foreign Office mandarin who is using his power to influence MI6". Can't he have just done something that Bond would seriously disagree with? If he is to be a traitor, then perhaps he could be a traitor in the sense that he betrayed the very principles he taught the young Bond, rather than betraying his country.

Yes.

And what about Silva Captain? What do you reckon is his role in all this?

[Captain Tightpants]

I still think "Skyfall" refers to "Operation Skyfall", an off-the-books operation that made several careers (M, Kincade, Dowar and at least some of the eight dead agents, if not all of them). However, it involved doing something illegal, and so it was covered up. I think Silva is somehow connected to this, possibly as a byproduct of the operation. I floated an idea a long time ago about him being a local intelligence source in Angola that MI6 burned, letting details of a planned operation in Africa leak to flush out a Soviet spy somewhere in London. Although successful, it meant Silva was compromised and given to the Russians. Working on that train of thought, he would have fled to Macau, worked his way into the Chinese intelligence community, and started looking for a way to identify the people involved in "Skyfall".

[univex]

I still think "Skyfall" refers to "Operation Skyfall", an off-the-books operation that made several careers (M, Kincade, Dowar and at least some of the eight dead agents, if not all of them). However, it involved doing something illegal, and so it was covered up. I think Silva is somehow connected to this, possibly as a byproduct of the operation. I floated an idea a long time ago about him being a local intelligence source in Angola that MI6 burned, letting details of a planned operation in Africa leak to flush out a Soviet spy somewhere in London. Although successful, it meant Silva was compromised and given to the Russians. Working on that train of thought, he would have fled to Macau, worked his way into the Chinese intelligence community, and started looking for a way to identify the people involved in "Skyfall".

Plausible. I like it. Nicelly done. Besides, Angola and Macao both have portuguese ties.

[Captain Tightpants]

That's where I got the idea of Angola - Portugal. Macau came up in the past few days. It seems like a good place to hide. Maybe the film could feature something like the notorious Kowloon Walled City (even though it was in Hong Kong and was destroyed in 1993) - an autonomous, overcrowded former fortress that was converted into a lawless, miniaturised city within a city.

[MattofSteel]

Love the idea of Silva being the byproduct of the failed operation and coming back to kill all the stakeholders.

[Captain Tightpants]

I believe Javier Bardem said that he is not a conventional Bond villain - he does villainous things, but his motivations for doing them are outside the norm, and it was implied that the audience may understand why he is doing it even if they can't cheer for him. Given what (little) we know about the plot, the only way I can see that working out is if he was a former operative who was sacrified "for the greater good", and now all he has left is taking revenge on those who ruined him in the first place.

[Shrublands]

It had seemed that M was a traitor, but as Bond’s investigation reaches its conclusion, he can see it must be Kincade. He and M drive to Scotland to confront him.

Silva and Kincade have different agendas and this leads to the climactic battle at the house. Kincade and M on the moor being tracked by Silva.

But why does Kincade have to be a traitor? If Albert Finney is Kincade, then he's a "Foreign Office mandarin who is using his power to influence MI6". Can't he have just done something that Bond would seriously disagree with? If he is to be a traitor, then perhaps he could be a traitor in the sense that he betrayed the very principles he taught the young Bond, rather than betraying his country.

Possibly.

But the key to my thinking that it is more serious than that is the line “"007 must track down and destroy the threat, no matter how personal the cost."

If Kincade is the money that put Bond through school, and his home a second home to Bond, that would cement the emotional and geographical significance that the title is supposed to have.

I think Bond and M’s drive to Scotland is much more than them going there to hide (wouldn’t that be a dull link into the climatic act?) I believe that they both want to confront Kincade with some very incriminating evidence. Perhaps something that could fit in a small black box.

[Luigi Ferrari]

The latest (amazing!) photos and updates before the shooting start.

Spoiler alert!

http://theforagingph...-skyfall-lodge/

Spoiler

<p>Last day of construction today before filming begins tomorrow, so I
thought I’d take a last scout around the site before access is
restricted. The lodge is pretty much finished now, and the attention to
detail is staggering – I love this shot of the grass sprouting from the
guttering. They’ve been cutting turves of heather from elsewhere on the
common, and using them alter the site; blocking off a track that merges
with the ‘driveway’ the aston martin is going to drive down, for
instance. Today there were&nbsp; guys laying them at the base of the lodge,
to help blend the lines, so to speak. They’re building a couple of low
walls at the front of the lodge, which they hadn’t even started
yesterday, and it was all hands on deck for that. Lots of people
scattering fake snow around the place too; my daughter and her friend
got to help with that, much to their delight.<br></p><p>So to follow on from my news yesterday that Skyfall Lodge is Bond’s
ancestral home, and that the chapel is the family chapel and graveyard,
I’ve got some rather interesting pictures for you. I took a stroll up to
the chapel, where they’re working flat out to get it all finished, and
are building a railed area of graves or tombs in front of the chapel.
The wall and railings have been up for a while, but that was as far as
they’d got last time I was here. I had a chat with one of the site guys,
and he kindly let me get up close to the headstones – several of which
the site crew were trying to piece back together after they’d broken
during installation.</p><p>I think what I saw will settle the question of whether this set is Bond’s family home or some sort of monastery…</p><p>The names on the headstones are Robert Bond, Celia Bond, Valentine
Bond,&nbsp; Kathleen Bond, Andrew Bond and Monique Delacroix Bond. The latter
two (same headstone) ‘tragically departed’ according to the
inscription. On Robert and Celia’s headstones, the writing is very
faint, but reads “who died here at Skyfall Glencoe”. There are three
stones on the wall of the chapel. One is for Ramsay William Bond, his
wife Magaret Jean Davidson Bond, and their daughter. The stone is
broken, whether intentionally or not I don’t know. I think the first
name is Elsa or Elsie, and the second name is Louise. Quite a Bond clan
gathered up there then; I hope their ghosts can give Daniel a bit of
help when Javier’s chasing him round the graves.</p><p>There’s also a memorial stone for Thomas Grenfell, Ghillie to the
Estate of Skyfall. It seems that this location is pivotal to the film
then, judging by the title. There is one more large headstone on the
wall of the chapel. It is dedicated by Hugh Milne to his wife Alison
Mary Birral Milne and their infant daughter Kirsty. Poor Alison died at
the age of 25; in childbirth maybe? Hugh lived to the grander age of 72
before joining them. I’ve no idea what significance this has to the Bond
story, but I’m assuming there must be some, to warrant this big stone
on the wall of the chapel.</p>
<p>Well, that’s all for now; I was going to get an early night tonight,
but I couldn’t resist sharing that little lot with you Bond fans. You
can repay me by having a look through the rest of my blog! Here are
today’s pictures. I’ll be interested to see how close I can get to the
action (if there is any…) tomorrow.</p>

[Vauxhall]

Incredible detail! We owe our Foraging Photographer a great deal.

Thanks for finding the article and reporting

Also, for anyone curious, a ghillie is typically someone who acts as an assistant on hunting or fishing expeditions in Scotland.

[Captain Tightpants]

But the key to my thinking that it is more serious than that is the line “"007 must track down and destroy the threat, no matter how personal the cost."

If Kincade is the money that put Bond through school, and his home a second home to Bond, that would cement the emotional and geographical significance that the title is supposed to have.

I think Bond and M’s drive to Scotland is much more than them going there to hide (wouldn’t that be a dull link into the climatic act?) I believe that they both want to confront Kincade with some very incriminating evidence. Perhaps something that could fit in a small black box.

I think our ideas can still converge. If Kincade were a surrogate father to Bond, it would be fairly devastating if he turned around and did something heinous, even if that something was not considered treason. I actually think that would be a little more shocking to Bond than if Kincade were a traitor to his country.

[Whalltt]

Incredible detail! We owe our Foraging Photographer a great deal.

Thanks for finding the article and reporting

Yes. And it's amazing how they allow him to get so close to the sets and take photos like this at his own free will.

[Pussfeller]

Fascinating. I'm amazed that this photographer was able to get so close to this stuff.

The ghillie concept seems like it would make for an interesting character: a crusty old outdoorsman who knows the estate like the back of his hand, right down to the last rock and tree. He would be an indispensable asset to anyone attempting to hide on the grounds, or planning an attack on the place. His rustic curmudgeonliness would produce low-level conflict and earthy Scottish humor, and his unique knowledge would make him a pivot point for intrigue and plot twists. It's easy to imagine the dramatic arc of such a character: first he resents the trouble brought by Bond, but is compelled to assist him by a sense of feudal duty ; later, in his desperation to save the estate from destruction, he is tempted to sell out Bond to the villain. Could Finney perhaps be playing a character like this? Perhaps "Kincade" is not a wealthy gentleman but rather a humble caretaker who helps Bond and M.

[Vauxhall]

You know, one of my first thoughts when I read about the character Kincade was that he might be some sort of caretaker or groundsman, but then other ideas superseded that and I completely forgot about it! I'm not positive that he is Skyfall's most recent ghillie - my gut instinct remains that he will be some sort of senior civil servant and possible guardian to Bond - but it's certainly another line of thinking to speculate about.

[SecretAgentFan]

Hmmm, don´t want to be the party pooper but...

... I don´t like the idea of this whole Bond family-reunion. It demystifies the character.

[Shrublands]

The ghillie concept seems like it would make for an interesting character: a crusty old outdoorsman who knows the estate like the back of his hand, right down to the last rock and tree. He would be an indispensable asset to anyone attempting to hide on the grounds, or planning an attack on the place. His rustic curmudgeonliness would produce low-level conflict and earthy Scottish humor, and his unique knowledge would make him a pivot point for intrigue and plot twists. It's easy to imagine the dramatic arc of such a character: first he resents the trouble brought by Bond, but is compelled to assist him by a sense of feudal duty ; later, in his desperation to save the estate from destruction, he is tempted to sell out Bond to the villain.

Yep, could be interesting, shame he’s dead.

Hmmm, don´t want to be the party pooper but...

... I don´t like the idea of this whole Bond family-reunion. It demystifies the character.

Agreed. Mendes will have to come-up with something quite wonderful for me to not hate all this.

[Captain Tightpants]

... I don´t like the idea of this whole Bond family-reunion. It demystifies the character.

Well, what I'm thinking of isn't really a reunion. It's just Bond confronting a man who has done something wrong, and that man just happens to be one of his father's friends.

[Major Tallon]

^{Valentine Bond! And yes indeed, the reports by the foraging photographer have been great.}

[Pussfeller]

I guess we all have things that set off alarm bells. If I heard that the next Bond film would feature a wisecracking ten-year-old sidekick, my kneejerk reaction would be pessimism. But the tombstone business doesn't seem at all contrary to the spirit of Bond, at least not as I conceive of it. It's not as if these dead family members were invented by the producers specifically for this film. Bond is an enigmatic character, but his past has never been a secret.

And a collection of tombstones hardly constitutes a Bond family reunion, complete with drunken aunts and potato salad. It only emphasizes the fact that Bond is an uprooted orphan. Like OHMSS, this kind of storyline would allow Bond a tantalizing brush with normal, down-to-earth humanity, only to have it blown to bits by the proverbial Frau with a machine gun.

[univex]

Fleming did it from the getgo - Giving Bond a background, albeith shady and not developed into the novel plots. We should be giggling like fan boys, seeing those names, in Glencoe. They only added the Skyfall name to the manor or lodge. The rest is Fleming and pure cinema Bond (DB5). One only hopes there´s also some references to Bond as a Commander and a scene at Blades. Plus, Bond´s flat, the PPK, Q, Oriental locations, Komodo dragons, a menacing villain, superb cast,... And this is the little we know. I bet there´s much more instored for us Bond fans.

Old are the days of robot-suit-genetically-engineered-diamond-crusted-villains and stupid one liners about "points" and mommas, cringe worthy CGIs, bmws,... Now that demystifies the character. IMO of course.

Bring on Skyfall. I have great faith on this one.