1894 replies to this topic

[Harmsway]

Overstatement pushes drama into melodrama - something Arnold often did with his Bond scores.

Maybe, for some folks, melodrama isn't a dirty word. (That's not saying I'm particularly fond of Arnold's brand of melodrama, mind you. I can't stand "Paris and Bond.")

For a movie series so closely identified with its musical themes, not writing any sort of obvious thematic identity is simply not acceptable.

Newman's score does have a thematic identity.

But not an obvious one.

[MattofSteel]

Not sure if this has been mentioned here, but a Twitter user ('Skyfall007Fan') who's apparently seen the film claims that both "The Names Bond...James Bond" and the original Monty Norman version of the theme appear. Separate of 'Breadcrumbs', which is apparently used in a different scene entirely.

[Harmsway]

Not sure if this has been mentioned here, but a Twitter user ('Skyfall007Fan') who's apparently seen the film claims that both "The Names Bond...James Bond" and the original Monty Norman version of the theme appear. Separate of 'Breadcrumbs', which is apparently used in a different scene entirely.

The original Monty Norman recording appears? Fantastic. I've been hoping a contemporary Bond film would use that for ages!

[x007AceOfSpades]

I'm thinking the Norman recording is for

Spoiler

The ending with gunbarrel and the 50th anniversary logo appearing on the screen

[MattofSteel]

The Twitterer also specifies exactly where it is used. And it makes sense.

I should be clear: He refers to it as "the original Bond theme", to differentiate it from "The Name's Bond" cue. I am the one extrapolating that he means the original Norman/Barry version from Dr. No.

But yeah, if that's true - then holy hell, it's tremendous.

[junkanoo]

Komodo Dragon sounds exactly like something Arnold would do.

Well I did call it an "hommage to David Arnold meets Persian K-Mart music" .... so I'm not going to disagree.

I do like several tracks though.

[Vauxhall]

Just read the tweets. Very interesting positioning of the three different versions of the Bond themes. I'll post exactly where he says they're used in the spoiler thread discussion.

[The Shark]

And which one would that be?

There's the M theme in Voluntary Retirement and Mother, the urban theme in Shanghai Drive and Adrenaline, the exotic motif in Komodo Dragon and Enjoying Death, Silva's ostinato in Someone Usually Dies and Deep Water, a signature bitonal chord progression (try and sustain and Em chord in your left hand, and play another Em chord on your right, followed by an F# chord) heard in Someone Usually Dies, Kill Them First, Breadcrumbs, and The Moors, Severine's theme heard in Severine; Modigliani and Komodo Dragon, plus the Adele theme.

Whether or not you find them memorable or hummable enough is up to you, but I'm fine with 'em.

Komodo Dragon sounds exactly like something Arnold would do.

The Adele bit is a bit reminiscent of Arnold, but the second half with the bamboo flute (probably a Dizi) and Gamelan ensemble is pure Newman. Sounds nothing like Persian K-Mart music though, whatever the hall that sounds like.

Overstatement pushes drama into melodrama - something Arnold often did with his Bond scores.

Maybe, for some folks, melodrama isn't a dirty word. (That's not saying I'm particularly fond of Arnold's brand of melodrama, mind you. I can't stand "Paris and Bond.")

Melodrama was very hard to do right without coming off as phoney. You've got masters like Vincente Minnelli, and then you got Paul Haggis.

For a movie series so closely identified with its musical themes, not writing any sort of obvious thematic identity is simply not acceptable.

Newman's score does have a thematic identity.

But not an obvious one.

Pearls before swine.

[Armand Fancypants]

Not sure if this has been mentioned here, but a Twitter user ('Skyfall007Fan') who's apparently seen the film claims that both "The Names Bond...James Bond" and the original Monty Norman version of the theme appear. Separate of 'Breadcrumbs', which is apparently used in a different scene entirely.

The original Monty Norman recording appears? Fantastic. I've been hoping a contemporary Bond film would use that for ages!

Same here.

Hope the dude's right.

[Vauxhall]

Just read the tweets. Very interesting positioning of the three different versions of the Bond themes. I'll post exactly where he says they're used in the spoiler thread discussion.

are you saying there are 3 different version of the "james bond theme" in skyfall?

According to this Twitter user, it appears so, yes.

[PeteNeon]

So The Name's Bond and Breadcrumbs are in it? Both with their openings intact, sounding very similar?

And the Monty Norman theme? I hope it doesn't jar with the rest of the score too much.

[sharpshooter]

The 1962 Monty Norman Bond theme appearing in a 2012 Bond movie, wow. I hope that's true. It's like they're providing a spread of history in the selections here. With Newman's Bond theme in 'Breadcrumbs' beginning similarly to Arnold's but doing something different. And then using Arnold's theme as well.

Edited by sharpshooter, 23 October 2012 - 11:11 PM.

[junkanoo]

Bond certainly changes, but someone has yet to tell me exactly what Newman does different than Arnold

He understates rather than overstates and his compositional technique is much more streamlined than Arnold's. He's a minimalist, like Herrmann, Barry, Nyman, Mansell and Zimmer (to pick a few disparate examples from film music). Less is more is his M.O.

John Barry *could* do understated themes ... The Ipcress File comes to mind, but it fit the film. Bond films were not about understatement any more than 'saving the world' is understatement and Barry knew that. Bond, Babes and Bad Guys are generally bold and so generally is the music. Quintessential Bond music such as ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKV8d6Chvlw

[The Shark]

Bond certainly changes, but someone has yet to tell me exactly what Newman does different than Arnold

He understates rather than overstates and his compositional technique is much more streamlined than Arnold's. He's a minimalist, like Herrmann, Barry, Nyman, Mansell and Zimmer (to pick a few disparate examples from film music). Less is more is his M.O.

John Barry *could* do understated themes ... The Ipcress File comes to mind, but it fit the film. Bond films were not about understatement any more than 'saving the world' is understatement and Barry knew that. Bond, Babes and Bad Guys are generally bold and so generally is the music.

Although there dozens of examples of understatement in Barry's scores (just as there's deliberate overstatement - an hilarious example being the source cue for when Bond's trapped in the crematorium at Slumber Inc. in DAF), but there I was pointing out Barry's minimalism and love of repetition.

This is a very good example.

http://youtu.be/bVRTX1QvQJg

[Harmsway]

Another complaint: Newman's action cues may not be quite as wall-of-sound-y as Arnold's, but they are a bit too, well, frantic and intense for my tastes, with too much emphasis on percussion. Part of the reason I can't bear to listen to Newman's score all the way through is that I just find them too exhausting. I liked that Barry's action cues supported the action on screen with exciting but nevertheless pretty elegant cues. Serra's action cues have a similar restraint.

[The Shark]

[MattofSteel]

Ha. It's like the music blog people really wanted mixed with random trailer clips.

And - sadly - seeing those clips interspersed reminds me (despite generally liking what I've heard of Newman's work thus far) just how much I prefer the trailer music over the film's score. That's never a good thing.

[The Shark]

And - sadly - seeing those clips interspersed reminds me (despite generally liking what I've heard of Newman's work thus far) just how much I prefer the trailer music over the film's score.

Can't agree there. Apart from the gated trance-style Bond theme heard for a seconds in the teaser, I've thought all of the trailer music for SKYFALL has been been a bit rubbish.

[THX-007]

And - sadly - seeing those clips interspersed reminds me (despite generally liking what I've heard of Newman's work thus far) just how much I prefer the trailer music over the film's score.

Can't agree there. Apart from the gated trance-style Bond theme heard for a seconds in the teaser, I've thought all of the trailer music for SKYFALL has been been a bit rubbish.

Well at least they didn't reuse the CR/QOS choir for all the trailers

[Vauxhall]

I can guess where they are gonna use david arnold's bond theme...at the finale .

Spoiler

Apparently it's used when Bond arrives at the casino in Macau.

[DamnCoffee]

Well that's a shame. It would make more sense of have some kind of oriental Bond theme.

[junkanoo]

Thanks for the spoiler tags Vauxhall, although I sense my days are numbered here (until after the U.S. premiere).

The 1962 Monty Norman Bond theme appearing in a 2012 Bond movie, wow. I hope that's true. It's like they're providing a spread of history in the selections here. With Newman's Bond theme in 'Breadcrumbs' beginning similarly to Arnold's but doing something different. And then using Arnold's theme as well.

I'm not sure that Casino Royale to Skyfall qualifies as that much of a spread of history. Plus 99 percent of film-goers won't even know Newman's arrangement to share that perspective ... so I doubt the filmmakers see that as important. The good news is that Skyfall is reported to be a very long Bond film, so there's a decent chance that the themes won't be tripping on one another.

[Armand Fancypants]

I'm not sure that Casino Royale to Skyfall qualifies as that much of a spread of history.

If only it had Bond '77.

A man can dream...

[MattofSteel]

I think more people will recognize the original recording than you'd assume. I actually kind of wish I hadn't known it going in. I would have absolutely flown out of my seat.

Thanks for the spoiler tags Vauxhall, although I sense my days are numbered here (until after the U.S. premiere).

The 1962 Monty Norman Bond theme appearing in a 2012 Bond movie, wow. I hope that's true. It's like they're providing a spread of history in the selections here. With Newman's Bond theme in 'Breadcrumbs' beginning similarly to Arnold's but doing something different. And then using Arnold's theme as well.

I'm not sure that Casino Royale to Skyfall qualifies as that much of a spread of history. Plus 99 percent of film-goers won't even know Newman's arrangement to share that perspective ... so I doubt the filmmakers see that as important. The good news is that Skyfall is reported to be a very long Bond film, so there's a decent chance that the themes won't be tripping on one another.

[junkanoo]

I think more people will recognize the original recording than you'd assume. I actually kind of wish I hadn't known it going in. I would have absolutely flown out of my seat.

Thanks for the spoiler tags Vauxhall, although I sense my days are numbered here (until after the U.S. premiere).

The 1962 Monty Norman Bond theme appearing in a 2012 Bond movie, wow. I hope that's true. It's like they're providing a spread of history in the selections here. With Newman's Bond theme in 'Breadcrumbs' beginning similarly to Arnold's but doing something different. And then using Arnold's theme as well.

I'm not sure that Casino Royale to Skyfall qualifies as that much of a spread of history. Plus 99 percent of film-goers won't even know Newman's arrangement to share that perspective ... so I doubt the filmmakers see that as important. The good news is that Skyfall is reported to be a very long Bond film, so there's a decent chance that the themes won't be tripping on one another.

How would you know what I assume? I only referred to Newman's arrangement. But, yeah ... I also wish I hadn't heard that bit of info.

[MattofSteel]

Ah, misread that as "Norman's." My apologies.

[junkanoo]

Ah, misread that as "Norman's." My apologies.

None needed. Cheers.

[occhile007]

Am I the only one who is waiting to see the movie first, then listen to the score? I remember when CR and QOS scores came out before the movies, I listened to them until the CDs had scratches and it almost spoiled the movie for me because I was too busy trying to listen to the score. Hence, why I'm waiting to buy it. To each is own though.

Either way though, my only main concern is that the Bond theme sounds good during the Gunbarrel and during the End Credits. I'd even settle for a quick 2 minute updated version of the Bond theme.

Oh and one other thing, let's face, John Barry created the distinctive sound of Bond scores and NOBODY DOES IT BETTER THAN BARRY!!!

[Nicolas Suszczyk]

Any word on the back cover design?

[The Shark]

Either way though, my only main concern is that the Bond theme sounds good during the Gunbarrel and during the End Credits. I'd even settle for a quick 2 minute updated version of the Bond theme.

Wait for 2014.

Oh and one other thing, let's face, John Barry created the distinctive sound of Bond scores and NOBODY DOES IT BETTER THAN BARRY!!!

So why bother trying to ape him?