319 replies to this topic

[univex]

I know the Bond theme is there, but I'm taking about the classic, bombastic Bond theme. Which Craig clearly deserves.

Still waiting for something like this. 5:30.



The closest we ever got was Pursuit and Port Au Prince.

At 3:13 it´s brilliant and then he wastes that theme. At 3:30 he doesn´t know where to go and at 3:40 it´s just hell and confusion up until the james bond theme. That´s what I call pure Arnold, he gives us a glimpse of something brilliant, we get our hopes high, and then...nothing, the musical themes go to waste. I´m glad he integrated CR´s song into the score, because, really, that´s what gave it its flavour, nothing else. Even the intro to Montenegro, which, again, was brilliant, is derived from You know my Name.

Edited by univex, 28 November 2011 - 08:49 PM.

[The Shark]

Re DIE ANOTHER DAY. I love this theme (2:13 in).

[Pussfeller]

The melody is interesting, but the instrumentation makes it sound just like everything else Arnold has ever come up with.

[The Shark]

True, but the brass sounds unusually rich there.

[DamnCoffee]

I love the melody at 3:58 onwards. Was a nice secondary theme.

Edited by Mharkin, 28 November 2011 - 09:19 PM.

[univex]

I really hate DAD, with a vengeance. Sorry guys, nothing to do with the sound, I just hate DAD, what a poor excuse for a film. Just looking at that ridiculous poster I wonder how that piece of cr*p saw the light of day. It really worries me that this came from the same producers of, say, CR.

[The Shark]

Ya know, I think I prefer DAD. It's an unpretentious piece of fluff, and unlike CR, it doesn't attempt to be art, and nor does it ruin an excellent Fleming novel.

[univex]

Ya know, I think I prefer DAD. It's an unpretentious piece of fluff, and unlike CR, it doesn't attempt to be art, and nor does it ruin an excellent Fleming novel.

Well, in the Bond film canon, I happen to like FRWL, TB, OHMSS and TLD the most. I´m that kind of fan, and I hate fluff, so I can´t really like DAD, nor do I adore CR, but I prefer the latter, infinetely.

[Pussfeller]

DAD is not unpretentious.

[The Shark]

It certainly has its pretentious moments (i.e. the death of Moon's father) - but overall, it doesn't take itself too seriously.

[univex]

DAD is not unpretentious.

True, I actually think it is full of it, whatever "it" is, whether "it" is Pierce Brosnan bloated attitude, which many fans believe to be his best portrayel in his 4 films, Stephens awkwardness as the "ubber" villain, the female kicking equivalents, the ott gadgets, the "all but the kitchen sink" attitude from the people behind it, ... It´s all a bit of idiotic fanfare to me, equivalente, in my book, to 1967s CR. Except THAT one didn´t take itself seriously and ends up being quite the fun ride. DAD is just pain, a whole lot of pain, grinding teeth all the way.

Edited by univex, 28 November 2011 - 10:26 PM.

[The Shark]

DAD is not unpretentious.

True, I actually think it is full of it, whatever "it" is, whether "it" is Pierce Brosnan bloated attitude.

The only thing bloated about Brozza in DAD is his gut. Along with GE, it's probably he best and most consistent performance as Bond. There's a weariness to him that we haven't seen before, and he's cooler than ever in the role (just take a look at the Cuba stuff before Jinx shows).

[univex]

DAD is not unpretentious.

True, I actually think it is full of it, whatever "it" is, whether "it" is Pierce Brosnan bloated attitude.

The only thing bloated about Brozza in DAD is his gut. Along with GE, it's probably he best and most consistent performance as Bond. There's a weariness to him that we haven't seen before, and he's cooler than ever in the role (just take a look at the Cuba stuff before Jinx shows).

Ok...I´ll give you that one I do like that part a tiny bit And I´m a Brozza fan, in general...well up until DAD and Mamma Mia

Edited by univex, 28 November 2011 - 11:24 PM.

[Shrublands]

DAD is not unpretentious.

True, I actually think it is full of it, whatever "it" is, whether "it" is Pierce Brosnan bloated attitude.

The only thing bloated about Brozza in DAD is his gut. Along with GE, it's probably he best and most consistent performance as Bond. There's a weariness to him that we haven't seen before, and he's cooler than ever in the role (just take a look at the Cuba stuff before Jinx shows).

Do you really think so?

I find his performance in DAD virtually unbearable. The way he’s ‘acting’ when he first meets Jinx, manages to show no characterisation, just the actor beneath being both pompous and creepy.

And as for before she shows up, that stuff at the cigar factory is all delivered with the utmost pretension. The antithesis of “effortlessly cool”. Some grubby salesman on holiday thinking he’s James Bond.

[The Shark]

I find his performance in DAD virtually unbearable. The way he’s ‘acting’ when he first meets Jinx, manages to show no characterisation, just the actor beneath being both pompous and creepy.

I'm laying no claim on that. The only one who comes out well with this scenes is DP David Tatersall. He evokes the Techincolor Panavsion look here better than anything in the Craig films.

And as for before she shows up, that stuff at the cigar factory is all delivered with the utmost pretension. The antithesis of “effortlessly cool”.

Don't agree there. He's obviously trying too hard in TWINE, but in those scenes in DAD, Broz's using minimal effort. I love how he plays the dialogue with Raoul. There's an afterglow from his TAILOR OF PANAMA schtick here, as he gives these scenes a careful mix of menace and cool.

Some grubby salesman on holiday thinking he’s James Bond.

Well, having the Visa Card ad theme blaring in the background doesn't help.

[Shrublands]

And as for before she shows up, that stuff at the cigar factory is all delivered with the utmost pretension. The antithesis of “effortlessly cool”.

Don't agree there. He's obviously trying too hard in TWINE, but in those scenes in DAD, Broz's using minimal effort. I love how he plays the dialogue with Raoul. There's an afterglow from his TAILOR OF PANAMA schtick here, as he gives these scenes a careful mix of menace and cool.

The way he delivers the line about the tobacco never going out is so unrelaxed. In fact, that’s the trouble with his whole performance as Bond and it got worse with each film. I don’t mean acting unrelaxed because the scene required the character to be that way. I mean unrelaxed as in worrying about what he looks like, sounds like. He’s so obviously an actor acting and he thinks he’s pulled-off being super cool. It’s as embarrassing as Richard Madeley’s Ali G impersonation.

It may come down to Broz’s pursuit of the elusive cool factor. Craig and Connery just have it – but Broz is way too cheesy and no amount of trying will ever change that, quite the opposite in fact. Roger Moore on the other hand, who is also cheesy, is under no such delusion; ironically enough, this is where he finds his super coolness.

[univex]

The way he delivers the line about the tobacco never going out is so unrelaxed. In fact, that’s the trouble with his whole performance as Bond and it got worse with each film. I don’t mean acting unrelaxed because the scene required the character to be that way. I mean unrelaxed as in worrying about what he looks like, sounds like. He’s so obviously an actor acting and he thinks he’s pulled-off being super cool.

I agree completely with this Shrublands, and I´m a Brosnan fan (Thomas Crown, Remington Steele, Seraphim Falls, Taylor of Panama, The Fourth Protocol, Goldeneye and Tomorrow Never Dies, are the only films/roles I like though). Sometimes, I can´t help seeing a bit of William Shatner, Ryan O´Neil and Alec Baldwin in him and, when I do, I give up watching whatever painful role he´s in. The man was an icon for me growing up and I still enjoy those films I mentioned, but you´re quite right, he´s an actor acting, always. The one time he tried to emulate McQueen and play a more silent type in The Thomas Crown Affair, he pulled it of quite nicely, IMO.

But anyway, we digress. Let´s talk about the sound then, shall we? And about how great it will be to have a new composer on board for this one

Edited by univex, 29 November 2011 - 01:36 AM.

[Shrublands]

But anyway, we digress. Let´s talk about the sound then, shall we? And about how great it will be to have a new composer on board for this one

I wouldn’t get my hopes up just yet. They are deliberately drip feeding us info about Skyfall. It was quite pointless holding back the announcement about Q other than to have another headline in a few weeks time. Arnold’s “no news yet” could well be what he’s been told to say until they want a bit of extra coverage, this time for the composer announcement.

[Satorious]

I'm laying no claim on that. The only one who comes out well with this scenes is DP David Tatersall. He evokes the Techincolor Panavsion look here better than anything in the Craig films.

Yes, Tatersall is probably the only one who came out okay on this movie. To be honest, this wasn't difficult after the drab looking TWINE. He might have even shot some good scenes - but I can't tell because they graded the **** out of it! It looked like a magic bullet movie trying to emulate the looks of Terminator/Matrix. The fact half of it looks like it was shot in Cornwall probably didn't help. Give me Schaefer's work personally.

[Shrublands]

I'm laying no claim on that. The only one who comes out well with this scenes is DP David Tatersall. He evokes the Techincolor Panavsion look here better than anything in the Craig films.

Yes, Tatersall is probably the only one who came out okay on this movie. To be honest, this wasn't difficult after the drab looking TWINE. He might have even shot some good scenes - but I can't tell because they graded the **** out of it! It looked like a magic bullet movie trying to emulate the looks of Terminator/Matrix. The fact half of it looks like it was shot in Cornwall probably didn't help. Give me Schaefer's work personally.

TWINE suffers terribly from being lit for (and shot with) multi-camera setups. Hence the drab, flat look in the dramatic sequences.
Roger Deakins always lights (and shoots) for one camera at a time and frowns on multi-camera setups. He’s refused to work on films if a director suggests them. As I’ve said before he is a very, very classy person to have on the Skyfall.

[Col. Sun]

I'm laying no claim on that. The only one who comes out well with this scenes is DP David Tatersall. He evokes the Techincolor Panavsion look here better than anything in the Craig films.

Yes, Tatersall is probably the only one who came out okay on this movie. To be honest, this wasn't difficult after the drab looking TWINE. He might have even shot some good scenes - but I can't tell because they graded the **** out of it! It looked like a magic bullet movie trying to emulate the looks of Terminator/Matrix. The fact half of it looks like it was shot in Cornwall probably didn't help. Give me Schaefer's work personally.

TWINE suffers terribly from being lit for (and shot with) multi-camera setups. Hence the drab, flat look in the dramatic sequences.
Roger Deakins always lights (and shoots) for one camera at a time and frowns on multi-camera setups. He’s refused to work on films if a director suggests them. As I’ve said before he is a very, very classy person to have on the Skyfall.

Totally agree. Mendes and Deakins are true filmmaker unlike Mr. Apted who comes from tv, particularly docs., and still brings that made-for-tv approach to his (always dull) films. He's a totally boring and uninspired director. Eon should never have hired him. He wrecked TWINE. And there are a couple of screenwriters who share that view as well.

But with Mendes and Deakins leading Skyfall's filming, we are, IMHO, in very good hands.

[Shrublands]

Totally agree. Mendes and Deakins are true filmmaker unlike Mr. Apted who comes from tv, particularly docs., and still brings that made-for-tv approach to his (always dull) films. He's a totally boring and uninspired director. Eon should never have hired him. He wrecked TWINE.

Exactly, every time the material demanded operatic bravado, Apted goes for small, soap opera banality instead.
The whole thing should have been handled as epic cinema, with a twisted gothic romance at its core. The made-for-TV-look hamstrings this and anything that TWINE might have had falls. A shame, in my opinion.

[univex]

Totally agree. Mendes and Deakins are true filmmaker unlike Mr. Apted who comes from tv, particularly docs., and still brings that made-for-tv approach to his (always dull) films. He's a totally boring and uninspired director. Eon should never have hired him. He wrecked TWINE.

Exactly, every time the material demanded operatic bravado, Apted goes for small, soap opera banality instead.
The whole thing should have been handled as epic cinema, with a twisted gothic romance at its core. The made-for-TV-look hamstrings this and anything that TWINE might have had falls. A shame, in my opinion.

I agree with all of the above. Always considered TWINE as the Bond tv film of the late 90s, I suppose that is why I find Pierce so suitable as Bond in it, afterall, the man shines on tv - which is a good stage (Remington Steele) for Pierce in my book. I wonder what they could have done with TWINE and its original script and with a brilliant epic director? Anyways, for those dreading Skyfall may turn into TWINE, just one observation...have you see the talent attached to this project? No way this is another tv Bond film.

Edited by univex, 29 November 2011 - 02:18 PM.

[SecretAgentFan]

And as for before she shows up, that stuff at the cigar factory is all delivered with the utmost pretension. The antithesis of “effortlessly cool”.

Don't agree there. He's obviously trying too hard in TWINE, but in those scenes in DAD, Broz's using minimal effort. I love how he plays the dialogue with Raoul. There's an afterglow from his TAILOR OF PANAMA schtick here, as he gives these scenes a careful mix of menace and cool.

The way he delivers the line about the tobacco never going out is so unrelaxed. In fact, that’s the trouble with his whole performance as Bond and it got worse with each film. I don’t mean acting unrelaxed because the scene required the character to be that way. I mean unrelaxed as in worrying about what he looks like, sounds like. He’s so obviously an actor acting and he thinks he’s pulled-off being super cool. It’s as embarrassing as Richard Madeley’s Ali G impersonation.

It may come down to Broz’s pursuit of the elusive cool factor. Craig and Connery just have it – but Broz is way too cheesy and no amount of trying will ever change that, quite the opposite in fact. Roger Moore on the other hand, who is also cheesy, is under no such delusion; ironically enough, this is where he finds his super coolness.

Interesting perspective.

I would like to add, however, that Brosnan has one big disadvantage: his looks. He is just too good looking. Like other actors and actresses blessed with being extremely easy on the eyes, Brosnan might appear to be trying too hard because he actually is acting to show that he is more than the pretty boy.

Also, he became Bond in an era where it was important to reestablish Bond as THE CLASSIC BOND. So he underlined the suave, handsame, charming, winking sides of that character´s persona. He also wanted to be tough but that was nothing one expected from him. So it was easy to consider that "an act" and not so believable.

Ironically, with Craig it is the other way around. He is not the pretty boy and his toughness is absolutely believable because he looks like the rough type. Also, he was employed to redefine the public perception of Bond. AND he did not have the "Remington Steele"-TV baggage Brosnan had. However, since Craig was not known for doing lighter comedy, his attempts at this get overlooked or seem not that belieavable to some viewers.

[Skudor]

And as for before she shows up, that stuff at the cigar factory is all delivered with the utmost pretension. The antithesis of “effortlessly cool”.

Don't agree there. He's obviously trying too hard in TWINE, but in those scenes in DAD, Broz's using minimal effort. I love how he plays the dialogue with Raoul. There's an afterglow from his TAILOR OF PANAMA schtick here, as he gives these scenes a careful mix of menace and cool.

The way he delivers the line about the tobacco never going out is so unrelaxed. In fact, that’s the trouble with his whole performance as Bond and it got worse with each film. I don’t mean acting unrelaxed because the scene required the character to be that way. I mean unrelaxed as in worrying about what he looks like, sounds like. He’s so obviously an actor acting and he thinks he’s pulled-off being super cool. It’s as embarrassing as Richard Madeley’s Ali G impersonation.

It may come down to Broz’s pursuit of the elusive cool factor. Craig and Connery just have it – but Broz is way too cheesy and no amount of trying will ever change that, quite the opposite in fact. Roger Moore on the other hand, who is also cheesy, is under no such delusion; ironically enough, this is where he finds his super coolness.

Interesting perspective.

I would like to add, however, that Brosnan has one big disadvantage: his looks. He is just too good looking. Like other actors and actresses blessed with being extremely easy on the eyes, Brosnan might appear to be trying too hard because he actually is acting to show that he is more than the pretty boy.

Also, he became Bond in an era where it was important to reestablish Bond as THE CLASSIC BOND. So he underlined the suave, handsame, charming, winking sides of that character´s persona. He also wanted to be tough but that was nothing one expected from him. So it was easy to consider that "an act" and not so believable.

Ironically, with Craig it is the other way around. He is not the pretty boy and his toughness is absolutely believable because he looks like the rough type. Also, he was employed to redefine the public perception of Bond. AND he did not have the "Remington Steele"-TV baggage Brosnan had. However, since Craig was not known for doing lighter comedy, his attempts at this get overlooked or seem not that belieavable to some viewers.

That's an interesting take on it - I don't quite agree that it is just down to perceptions, though. Brosnan is a pretty average actor, and lacked the easy humour that Connery and Moore could display. But he could wear a suit very well, and looked the part. Craig is a solid actor and brings bags of depth to the part, but also lacks that easy humour and has tended to look like a short body builder who's just bought his first suit (ironically, sort of the intention). They can both be funny when needed, and deliver quips - but to me they rarely hit the spot in the same wry way that Connery and Moore managed.

[Shrublands]

And as for before she shows up, that stuff at the cigar factory is all delivered with the utmost pretension. The antithesis of “effortlessly cool”.

Don't agree there. He's obviously trying too hard in TWINE, but in those scenes in DAD, Broz's using minimal effort. I love how he plays the dialogue with Raoul. There's an afterglow from his TAILOR OF PANAMA schtick here, as he gives these scenes a careful mix of menace and cool.

The way he delivers the line about the tobacco never going out is so unrelaxed. In fact, that’s the trouble with his whole performance as Bond and it got worse with each film. I don’t mean acting unrelaxed because the scene required the character to be that way. I mean unrelaxed as in worrying about what he looks like, sounds like. He’s so obviously an actor acting and he thinks he’s pulled-off being super cool. It’s as embarrassing as Richard Madeley’s Ali G impersonation.

It may come down to Broz’s pursuit of the elusive cool factor. Craig and Connery just have it – but Broz is way too cheesy and no amount of trying will ever change that, quite the opposite in fact. Roger Moore on the other hand, who is also cheesy, is under no such delusion; ironically enough, this is where he finds his super coolness.

Interesting perspective.

I would like to add, however, that Brosnan has one big disadvantage: his looks. He is just too good looking. Like other actors and actresses blessed with being extremely easy on the eyes, Brosnan might appear to be trying too hard because he actually is acting to show that he is more than the pretty boy.

Also, he became Bond in an era where it was important to reestablish Bond as THE CLASSIC BOND. So he underlined the suave, handsame, charming, winking sides of that character´s persona. He also wanted to be tough but that was nothing one expected from him. So it was easy to consider that "an act" and not so believable.

Ironically, with Craig it is the other way around. He is not the pretty boy and his toughness is absolutely believable because he looks like the rough type. Also, he was employed to redefine the public perception of Bond. AND he did not have the "Remington Steele"-TV baggage Brosnan had. However, since Craig was not known for doing lighter comedy, his attempts at this get overlooked or seem not that belieavable to some viewers.

I think it’s important for each Bond to find the style of wit and light comedy that they are comfortable with.

This has not been high on the agenda for Craig’s Bond yet – but it’s time now.

The third film is very important here. Connery finds the best expression of his facility in Bond humour in GF and TB. Moore, TSWLM, obviously.
But Broz’s Bond starts to crumble in TWINE, because it’s a film that doesn’t know what it wants to be and Broz seems to have become uncomfortable in his own skin.
Subsequently, Broz Bond never finds his individual take on Bond wit. All the more wrong, because this should have been his forte.

Next, Craig and the film makers need to find his. It's already there really, (as Moore's and Connery's was before their 3rd outings), but genuinely witty material needs to have been written to bring it to the foreground in the right places in Skyfall. I have confidence that Mendes is sensible enough to see this and it’s the way to make this film truly rounded.

[Skudor]

And as for before she shows up, that stuff at the cigar factory is all delivered with the utmost pretension. The antithesis of “effortlessly cool”.

Don't agree there. He's obviously trying too hard in TWINE, but in those scenes in DAD, Broz's using minimal effort. I love how he plays the dialogue with Raoul. There's an afterglow from his TAILOR OF PANAMA schtick here, as he gives these scenes a careful mix of menace and cool.

The way he delivers the line about the tobacco never going out is so unrelaxed. In fact, that’s the trouble with his whole performance as Bond and it got worse with each film. I don’t mean acting unrelaxed because the scene required the character to be that way. I mean unrelaxed as in worrying about what he looks like, sounds like. He’s so obviously an actor acting and he thinks he’s pulled-off being super cool. It’s as embarrassing as Richard Madeley’s Ali G impersonation.

It may come down to Broz’s pursuit of the elusive cool factor. Craig and Connery just have it – but Broz is way too cheesy and no amount of trying will ever change that, quite the opposite in fact. Roger Moore on the other hand, who is also cheesy, is under no such delusion; ironically enough, this is where he finds his super coolness.

Interesting perspective.

I would like to add, however, that Brosnan has one big disadvantage: his looks. He is just too good looking. Like other actors and actresses blessed with being extremely easy on the eyes, Brosnan might appear to be trying too hard because he actually is acting to show that he is more than the pretty boy.

Also, he became Bond in an era where it was important to reestablish Bond as THE CLASSIC BOND. So he underlined the suave, handsame, charming, winking sides of that character´s persona. He also wanted to be tough but that was nothing one expected from him. So it was easy to consider that "an act" and not so believable.

Ironically, with Craig it is the other way around. He is not the pretty boy and his toughness is absolutely believable because he looks like the rough type. Also, he was employed to redefine the public perception of Bond. AND he did not have the "Remington Steele"-TV baggage Brosnan had. However, since Craig was not known for doing lighter comedy, his attempts at this get overlooked or seem not that belieavable to some viewers.

I think it’s important for each Bond to find the style of wit and light comedy that they are comfortable with.

This has not been high on the agenda for Craig’s Bond yet – but it’s time now.

The third film is very important here. Connery finds the best expression of his facility in Bond humour in GF and TB. Moore, TSWLM, obviously.
But Broz’s Bond starts to crumble in TWINE, because it’s a film that doesn’t know what it wants to be and Broz seems to have become uncomfortable in his own skin.
Subsequently, Broz Bond never finds his individual take on Bond wit. All the more wrong, because this should have been his forte.

Next, Craig and the film makers need to find his. It's already there really, as Moore's and Connery's was before their 3rd outings, but good material needs to have been written to bring it to the foreground in the right places in Skyfall. I have confidence that Mendes is sensible enough to see this and it’s the way to make this film truly rounded.

I guess the key here is that they need to find their own style - I do wonder what Craig's will be (it won't be Connery's wryness or Moore's ironic eyebrow). Perhaps something cruel and cutting. I think Brosnan's was largely a (slightly false) self mocking style, but he could deliver double entendres well enough.

[jaguar007]

They can both be funny when needed, and deliver quips - but to me they rarely hit the spot in the same wry way that Connery and Moore managed.

Who can deliver quips like Connery or Moore?

Brosnan too often comes across like he is Moore trying to be Connery.

[Gt Munn]

Really enjoying this discussion here. Do we have a topic that would entail and facilitate this discussion anywhere on the forum? If not, I think there is enough here that could warrant its very own topic.

[The Shark]

A mod could always split the posts.