319 replies to this topic

[Shrublands]

A mod could always split the posts.

Yes, that would be good. I’ve been a bit torn – I’m enjoying this debate but don’t want to derail the thread.

[univex]

A mod could always split the posts.

Yes, that would be good. I’ve been a bit torn – I’m enjoying this debate but don’t want to derail the thread.

Yeah, same here!

[Shrublands]

I think Brosnan's was largely a (slightly false) self mocking style, but he could deliver double entendres well enough.

Sorry, I don’t agree. Brosnan delivers the double entendres like an actor who is slightly embarrassed by the script. They are not his words.

If he’s mocking, it’s the material he’s mocking and the mocking is to protect him. He’d never be daring enough to poke fun of himself. People may point to Mamma Mia and say, “Well, there is a man who can laugh at himself”. But he’s not really even doing it there. He’s saying, “look at me, the cool guy who played James Bond putting on 70s spandex and singing 70s pop”. Material to laugh at, not fundamentally him.

He’s forever finding protection, something to hide behind. Never open. Always half hidden. And he’s best when the character that he's playing has this aspect too.

[univex]

He’s forever finding protection, something to hide behind. Never open. Always half hidden. And he’s best when the character that he's playing has this aspect too.

Hence me enjoying his portrayal of Crown. Very well put Shrublands Disclaimer: Steve McQueen´s Crown is simply in another league, mostly because of Norman Jewison, Faye Dunaway, ..., oh, and shear charisma.

[occhile007]

After watching Die Another Day last week and watching Goldeneye this week, it is like the difference between night and day for Broz. Like he's portrayed two different Bonds. I personally liked his outting in Goldeneye the best. Die Another Day, well he tried to hard. Mainly because of the writing. He was cool, and comfortable, yet maybe he figured, well i'm not really 50, i'm gonna play a 35 year old who thinks he super slick and get with all the ladies. He tried to hard to be like everyone Connery and Moore.

And just for the record, and correct me if I'm wrong, but Moore never once read the books and said that "everyone knows James bond will win in the end, so why not just make it funny." Connery nor Craig do this. With Craig, you really think he is gonna lose.

But the original is still the best...Connery, Sir Sean Connery....THE ORIGINAL ACTION ADVENTURE HERO...own him today....

[SecretAgentFan]

A mod could always split the posts.

Yes, that would be good. I’ve been a bit torn – I’m enjoying this debate but don’t want to derail the thread.

Yeah, same here!

Shouldn´t we meet again in the Brosnan thread?

Or we combine this discussio with Arnold and let´s say Desplat. Who can do more drama or deliver comedy? In fact, Desplat would have the advantage here. John Barry, however, was a master of drama but comedy was not his main goal, I think.

[Skudor]

I think Brosnan's was largely a (slightly false) self mocking style, but he could deliver double entendres well enough.

Sorry, I don’t agree. Brosnan delivers the double entendres like an actor who is slightly embarrassed by the script. They are not his words.

If he’s mocking, it’s the material he’s mocking and the mocking is to protect him. He’d never be daring enough to poke fun of himself. People may point to Mamma Mia and say, “Well, there is a man who can laugh at himself”. But he’s not really even doing it there. He’s saying, “look at me, the cool guy who played James Bond putting on 70s spandex and singing 70s pop”. Material to laugh at, not fundamentally him.

He’s forever finding protection, something to hide behind. Never open. Always half hidden. And he’s best when the character that he's playing has this aspect too.

Very well put.

I do still enjoy his DEs, perhaps because I do enjoy a nice DE in any event, but the big difference is, as you say, that much of Moore's and Connery's humour felt genuine to them. Brosnan's doesn't.

@ occhile007 - I'm glad you can see the light. Connery is is, unfortunately, the beginning and the end - no one will ever measure up. Which is why it's good to have more original takes, like Craig's, that are not just trying to copy the perfect original, but do something new instead.

[occhile007]

I think Brosnan's was largely a (slightly false) self mocking style, but he could deliver double entendres well enough.

Sorry, I don’t agree. Brosnan delivers the double entendres like an actor who is slightly embarrassed by the script. They are not his words.

If he’s mocking, it’s the material he’s mocking and the mocking is to protect him. He’d never be daring enough to poke fun of himself. People may point to Mamma Mia and say, “Well, there is a man who can laugh at himself”. But he’s not really even doing it there. He’s saying, “look at me, the cool guy who played James Bond putting on 70s spandex and singing 70s pop”. Material to laugh at, not fundamentally him.

He’s forever finding protection, something to hide behind. Never open. Always half hidden. And he’s best when the character that he's playing has this aspect too.

Very well put.

I do still enjoy his DEs, perhaps because I do enjoy a nice DE in any event, but the big difference is, as you say, that much of Moore's and Connery's humour felt genuine to them. Brosnan's doesn't.

@ occhile007 - I'm glad you can see the light. Connery is is, unfortunately, the beginning and the end - no one will ever measure up. Which is why it's good to have more original takes, like Craig's, that are not just trying to copy the perfect original, but do something new instead.

Roger Moore "Thank you my good man..."

[Captain Tightpants]

Alright, I've decided it's time to stop commenting on suggestions for alternatives to Anrold and start making them. My sister gave me the SENNA documentary for Christmas, and Antonio Pinto provided a phenomenal score for it (he he did it for free, too ... though I doubt he'd do SKYFALL for free):





He also did CITY OF GOD and LORD OF WAR

[DominicGreene]

Greg Edmonson. He did the soundtrack for Uncharted 3. He would be so awesome for a Bond score,

[SecretAgentFan]

Somehow it would almost seem disappointing now if Arnold were to score SKYFALL after all...

[MattofSteel]

I wholeheartedly disagree.

[SecretAgentFan]

Don´t get me wrong: I love Arnold´s work for the Bond films, especially his Craig Bonds.

But I do think the new film might benefit from a fresh viewpoint.

[MattofSteel]

Frankly, as long as it sounds like something John Barry 'could have' written and it's distinctly Bond-sounding, I don't really care.

[Captain Tightpants]

So you just want someone to ape Barry's style, rather than put a single original thought into the score?

[Mr_Wint]

Frankly, as long as it sounds like something John Barry 'could have' written and it's distinctly Bond-sounding, I don't really care.

This.

[tdalton]

I think the idea of simply finding someone who can create something that sounds like it could have come from John Barry is not the way EON should be going about hiring a new composer. They should be looking for someone who can bring a new sound to the series, rather than trying to come up with something that sounds a certain way because that's how John Barry would have scored the films.

[graric]

Eric Serra was the low of the lows when it comes to Bond soundtracks! His score was completely inappropriate for a Bond film (the best track in the film, the Bond theme for the Tank Chase, wasn't even arranged by him but added later by the producers!) David Arnold's work on Casino Royale and Quantum have been amongst the strongest non Barry Bond scores. The most important thing for this film is to have a classic Bond sound (it being the 50th anniversary) and if Arnold is given more freedom to use the Bond theme in this one by Mendes thats what we will get. (Marc Forster is quoted as saying that he asked Arnold to keep the Bond theme to a minimum in Quantum because he didn't want the theme to feel overplayed like Indiana Jones)

[PPK_19]

Eric Serra was the low of the lows when it comes to Bond soundtracks! His score was completely inappropriate for a Bond film (the best track in the film, the Bond theme for the Tank Chase, wasn't even arranged by him but added later by the producers!) David Arnold's work on Casino Royale and Quantum have been amongst the strongest non Barry Bond scores. The most important thing for this film is to have a classic Bond sound (it being the 50th anniversary) and if Arnold is given more freedom to use the Bond theme in this one by Mendes thats what we will get. (Marc Forster is quoted as saying that he asked Arnold to keep the Bond theme to a minimum in Quantum because he didn't want the theme to feel overplayed like Indiana Jones)

Disagree. Serra's score for Goldeneye was the strongest in my eyes. It conjures up a great feeling of post-cold war uncertainties. Just listen to the bit where he and Natalya are in the archives. Brooding, menacing, i love it.

I want, as i have mentioned many a time, Alexandre Desplat scoring this one. His work on Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows part 2 was nothing short of phenomenal, as was The Ghost Writer. Sadly, Arnold will probably return, and the Skyfall soundtrack will sound distinctly average.

[SecretAgentFan]

It´s a real tricky thing, the Bond score. Maybe that´s why the SKYFALL-team has not chosen a composer yet (or rehired Arnold). On the one hand, you want something new and fresh, on the other hand the Barry formula has imprinted itself so heavily on the series that one would probably miss it. That´s what happened to Serra whose score was perfectly fine as a new approach but lacked the Barry-ish melodies AND the 007 theme.

I guess they will wait until they have a better understanding of how SKYFALL shapes up to feel. And then they will either experiment or use the score to make the whole film seem more Bondian. With all their talk of this one being "a classic Bond film with capital B" (a weird quote, IMO, by the way), however, I predict a very Barry-esque score.

[The Shark]

Eric Serra was the low of the lows when it comes to Bond soundtracks! His score was completely inappropriate for a Bond film (the best track in the film, the Bond theme for the Tank Chase, wasn't even arranged by him but added later by the producers!)

What about the beautiful love theme?

David Arnold's work on Casino Royale and Quantum have been amongst the strongest non Barry Bond scores.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JRmE5-3sOg

Sorry, but I've heard farts more memorable than that.

[univex]

Sorry, but I've heard farts more memorable than that.

lol, thanks for that, made me laugh. Also, I agree about Arnold, most of the times he´s not memorable at all.

[00Twelve]

I guess they will wait until they have a better understanding of how SKYFALL shapes up to feel.

It'd be the only appropriate and professional thing to do. Unless a director and composer have a really close working relationship and the choice of composer is a foregone conclusion (your Spielberg/Williams, Burton/Elfman, Cameron/Horner types), it's great that they want to hold off until they have a better sense of how the final film will look.

Having said that, David Holmes.

[Mr_Wint]

They must have a pretty good idea of how the final film will feel and look now... They know what they are aiming for.

[Captain Tightpants]

That doesn't mean they can simply score it. I know some composers know what they want going in, and so will score based off the script and the script alone. Others prefer to have some footage at hand so they can score for it. And others still will have a mix - they'll score off the script, and then tweak it to match the footage.

[SecretAgentFan]

They must have a pretty good idea of how the final film will feel and look now... They know what they are aiming for.

Much too early right now. They have shot for only six weeks - and the schedule ends in May, right? They need a rough cut. After that they will decide.

[Mr_Wint]

They must have a pretty good idea of how the final film will feel and look now... They know what they are aiming for.

Much too early right now. They have shot for only six weeks - and the schedule ends in May, right? They need a rough cut. After that they will decide.

"Let's shoot a little bit and see how Bondian it turns out to be" - sorry, I don't think they make 'em like that. They have a millions of practical problems to deal with now, but there must still be clear vision what they want for the film.

[Captain Tightpants]

Of course there's a vision - but it's not so simple as taking that vision and something something something MUSIC!

If they're going to replace David Arnold, then they need to find someone who shares their vision of what the film will be. So they would have to go through all the potential candidates to find someone who they feel would move in the same direction as they are. But after just six weeks of filming, no editing has been done, and what they have filmed is likely disjointed - we know they've been shooting scenes for Shanghai at Pinewood, but they're planning a visit to China later this year. So while there's certainly material available to express their vision of the film, that does not mean that expressing it is feasible right now.

[SecretAgentFan]

Exactly. Everybody who was ever involved in the making of a film knows that nobody really can predict how the result turns out to be. You have to wait for the rough cut to develop a clear view on how the particular film works.

And it seems to be exactly this situation that has resulted in putting off the decision to reemploy Arnold.

[MattofSteel]

So you just want someone to ape Barry's style, rather than put a single original thought into the score?

That's a whole lot of words that weren't in my mouth. Someone must have put them there.

Does John Barry not ape his own style? Is his fourth Bond score not derivative, in some ways, of his second? Did I say, "re-orchestrate cues that have been written before as opposed to coming up with new material?" Does maintaining reverence for a now firmly-established and well known "Bond sound" while creating something unique and exciting within those parameters (IE, "putting in original thought?") not suffice?

What's "original thought?" If it's what I think you think it is, we had a score like that once.

And, aside from the danger-driven "Run Shoot Jump", and the sweepingly haunting "We Share the Same Passions" suite, it was 80% useless and forgettable technical garbage.