179 replies to this topic

[Shrublands]

Checklist of who has reported what. We'll see Nov. 3 who was right and who was wrong.

http://hmssweblog.wo...racy-checklist/

Well, that’s all well and good. But at first glance that “Checklist” as to who reported on what first, is itself not very reliable. For example, for the entry on the casting of Ralph Fiennes it says…

Ralph Fiennes is in the cast: reported in Variety on March 25, though that was a passing reference. This is almost virtually accepted by fans as fact, but still not officially confirmed. 007 actor Daniel Craig told MTV in September that he “hoped” Fiennes would be in the cast.

However, Mr Bamigboye had already reported on February 4th …

Ralph Fiennes to be shaken, not stirred. Actor lined up for James Bond villain

http://www.dailymail...nd-villain.html

[Captain Tightpants]

Also, Bamigboye genuinely cares about film, theatre etc. and respects filmmakers and actors.

Then why the hell is he working for a tabloid? Working for a tabloid suggests one only cares about headlines.

[DaveBond21]

This is a big name to be in a Bond film. Someone had the idea of Finney playing Bond's father.

Is the "Shocking story" about the fact that Bond's dad is actually alive?


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[Captain Tightpants]

Did you even read the article that was posted? Okay, I know I've been critical of Bamigboye over the past few days. But, if he is as reliable a source as everyone says he is, then we have to take everything in the article to be reliable. He supposedly fact-checks enough that he would not publish details without being confident that they were accurate. Bamigboye doesn't just say that Finney will be in the film - he specifies a role: a "Foreign Office mandarin". Finney has (supposedly) been offered the role of a career politician who has amassed a lot of power for himself, and is now using that power to influence M and MI6. Nothing about being Bond's father. I know Jeffrey Deaver had something similar going on with CARTE BLANCHE, when "Sir Andrew" tried to have M pull Bond out of South Africa and relocated to Afghanistan, and it was written in a way that we were lead to believe that "Sir Andrew" was actually Andrew Bond, but EON have already said that BOND 23 will have nothing to do with CARTE BLANCHE.

And the idea of Bond's father being alive and well would only be shocking if A NEW HOPE was a compelte bomb and George Lucas never had the opportunity to make THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK.

[Pussfeller]

While James and his estranged father experience an emotional reunion, Moneypenny's identical twin sister returns from Borneo to announce that she is pregnant with Q's child. Albert Finney guest stars.

[Napoleon Solo]

Did you even read the article that was posted? Okay, I know I've been critical of Bamigboye over the past few days. But, if he is as reliable a source as everyone says he is, then we have to take everything in the article to be reliable. He supposedly fact-checks enough that he would not publish details without being confident that they were accurate. Bamigboye doesn't just say that Finney will be in the film - he specifies a role: a "Foreign Office mandarin". Finney has (supposedly) been offered the role of a career politician who has amassed a lot of power for himself, and is now using that power to influence M and MI6. Nothing about being Bond's father. I know Jeffrey Deaver had something similar going on with CARTE BLANCHE, when "Sir Andrew" tried to have M pull Bond out of South Africa and relocated to Afghanistan, and it was written in a way that we were lead to believe that "Sir Andrew" was actually Andrew Bond, but EON have already said that BOND 23 will have nothing to do with CARTE BLANCHE.

And the idea of Bond's father being alive and well would only be shocking if A NEW HOPE was a compelte bomb and George Lucas never had the opportunity to make THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK.

I read it. It reads like a very fawning story that makes Eon Productions sound like it's run by magnificent executives.

Here's an example:

<<<An executive close to the production told me: ‘It was one of those fabulous “This can’t get any better!” moments because Mendes has upped the game by bringing in Bardem and Fiennes — and they’ve already got Dame Judi Dench.">>>

IF Finney is the movie, this looks like a direct leak. IF he's not, he looks incredibly bad. But I'll say again, the notion that *nothing* is official until there's a press release is inaccurate. It's naive.

IF -- and I repeat IF -- the movie is called SkyFall or Skyfall, if Ralph Fiennes, Naomie Harris, Javier Bardem and Albert Finney are in the case and if Bond has a beard for part of the movie, that's AN INCREDIBLE COLLECTION OF GUESSES WITH ABSOLUTELY NO INFORMATION. If you have that kind of luck, you should be going to a casino or playing the stock market. IF, on the other hand, none of that happens, or only one or two things are true, then some media outlets are going to have egg on their faces.

My suspicion is some of this (especially given the fawning tone of the Daily Mail stories) was leaked deliberately. But that's only a suspciion. But if all of this comes to pass, it's not reasonable to claim there was *no basis whatsover* for the various stories.

Put another way, you might not like the outlets (News of the World, now defunct, has gone out of business because of the hacking scandal). But that doesn't mean the information hasn't been true. Eon's press release and press conference *ARE THE VERY END OF A PROCESS.*

[Captain Tightpants]

Here's an example:

<<<An executive close to the production told me: ‘It was one of those fabulous “This can’t get any better!” moments because Mendes has upped the game by bringing in Bardem and Fiennes — and they’ve already got Dame Judi Dench.">>>

Exactly - that's why I find Bamigboye's article suspect. An executive who is as enthusiastic as they are anonymous is a long-standing tabloid tactic.

The point I was trying to make with my last post is that if Bamigboye can be trusted, then his entire article has to be trusted. He names Finney as being in the film, and gives details of the role. If one is accepted as true, the other has to be, because if we start to pick and choose which parts we believe, the credibility of the article falls through. So, if Finney is in, he won't be Bond's father. If Finney is in, he will be the aforementioned role of career politician.

[Pussfeller]

This Finney thing is especially flimsy, as much as I'd like it to be true. The sole source for the rumor is a brief, vague report by this Buzz Boyardee character. Apart from that, there's circumstantial reasons to doubt Finney's involvement in Bond 23. He's rumored to be doing Bourne 4, which is now in production. It's possible that Broz Beeblebrox got his wires crossed, confused Bourne with Bond, and this "scoop" is the result. In the middle of the piece, he even interposes this simpering disclaimer: "If I’m wrong, I’m sure I’ll be set straight!" This Blix Blagojevich is the sort of scribbler who's already too sleazy and disreputable to be damaged by reporting false information. So what does he have to lose? He's a gossip columnist, not a reporter.

[Napoleon Solo]

We'll find out Thursday. I will say, one last time, the idea that *NOTHING* is official until the press release comes out is incorrect. A press release and/or press conference comes at the END of a very long process. Contracts are signed *before* the press conference happens or the press release happens. Some media outlets *actually* are told about things before the press conference.

I'm not going to defend the Daily Mail or this reporter. I have no idea how accurate they are. I will have an idea on Thursday.

Still, any fan who *believes* that nothting is official until the press conference doesn't really know how business works. And Eon Productions is a business, like any other.

[Captain Tightpants]

We'll find out Thursday. I will say, one last time, the idea that *NOTHING* is official until the press release comes out is incorrect. A press release and/or press conference comes at the END of a very long process. Contracts are signed *before* the press conference happens or the press release happens. Some media outlets *actually* are told about things before the press conference.

But we have no way of knowing what is official until it is announced at the end of that process, and no way of verifying what any journalist reports in the meantime. Unless that journalist directly quotes the actor in question, the producers, or someone like Craig or Mendes, in which case the report is the announcement at the end of that process.

[Napoleon Solo]

We'll find out Thursday. I will say, one last time, the idea that *NOTHING* is official until the press release comes out is incorrect. A press release and/or press conference comes at the END of a very long process. Contracts are signed *before* the press conference happens or the press release happens. Some media outlets *actually* are told about things before the press conference.

But we have no way of knowing what is official until it is announced at the end of that process, and no way of verifying what any journalist reports in the meantime. Unless that journalist directly quotes the actor in question, the producers, or someone like Craig or Mendes, in which case the report is the announcement at the end of that process.

Really? Gee, Sam Mendes' publicist told newspapers that yes, indeed, his client was in talks with Eon Productions to talks to direct Bond 23. AFTER that, Mendes had the gall to claim (to The Wall Street Journal) that it was merely "speculation" that he was in such talks. Months and months later, ex-wife Kate Winslet blabs (to a tabloid, of all places) that yes, her ex-husband was going to direct Bond 23.

Now, according to you, that wasn't official. A few months later, Eon and MGM put out a 2-paragraph press release that said, among other things, Mendes would be director.

Clearly, it was established *long* before the early 2011 press release that Eon wanted Mendes was going to direct Bond 23.

If you wish to believe that nothing is official before there's a press release...well, we'll just have to agree to disagree. I've cited examples -- real-life examples that you could verify if you took the time and effort (i.e. Ford hiring a new CEO on Sept. 1, 2006 while not announcing it until Sept. 5, 2006) -- where that clearly wasn't the case. The trick, as I have said before, is trying to figure out which news report really has good sources and which doesn't.

The problem with Internet message boards is that those who choose to be dogmatic or ignore real-life facts, tend to prevail. This is a not a forum for reason.

[Captain Tightpants]

Your argument seems to be "things are official before they're announced, because contracts are only signed at the end of the process, and EON don't always annouce things straight away". And while that is technically correct, it also has one fairly large oversight: we don't know things are official until EON says they are. We have no way of verifying anything until they tell us. So while you're technically correct that someone has officially joined the film when they sign a contract, for our intents and purposes, it is not official until it is announced.

[Jim]

I seem to have lost grasp of what "official" means. Or could mean. Official.

[Captain Tightpants]

The point where an actor who is rumoured for or connected to a role stops being rumoured for or connected to the role and accepts it.

[Pussfeller]

It's a question of whether it's credible, not whether it's official. If Gulshan Grover were to claim that he had been cast in Bond 23, we would rightly describe that rumor as "unconfirmed" until Eon issued a positive statement. But when Javier Bardem said he'd been cast, we accepted it as confirmed, and rightly so, even in the absence of a statement from Eon. Finney is in the same class with Bardem. If he were to announce (or just mention) that he had been cast, that would be credible confirmation, albeit unofficial. But he hasn't said anything, and neither have Eon. The rumor is not only unfounded, it's the work of a single hand. Before Booze Bizzybee wrote that piece, there was no rumor at all. Finney's name had never been mentioned in connection with the Bond series. Every report of the rumor cites Bugs Busbyberkely as the source, and he's no more credible than Gulshan Grover.

[DaveBond21]

Did you even read the article that was posted?

Just having a bit of fun.

[jaguar007]

In our eyes, it is not official until it is confirmed by EON because we are not in the know. once it is confirmed, we "officially" know so or so is cast.

got it?

[Col. Sun]

Also, Bamigboye genuinely cares about film, theatre etc. and respects filmmakers and actors.

Then why the hell is he working for a tabloid? Working for a tabloid suggests one only cares about headlines.

Cap Tightpants, you sure do come over as rather hostile sometimes! You got ants in your tight pants?

Anyway, the Daily Mail has HUGE readership. Whether you like the paper or not, it does not change the fact that Bamigboye's
weekly Friday two pager reaches a lot of people and influences many other showbiz site or reports.

For example, his article on Friday re: Albert Finney was instantly picked up by others including Total Film, Empire etc.

Plus, by having a weekly showbiz report, he is able to keep up with events and often report insider information before others can.

And, as I have said, Baz Bamigboye has very good relationships with many top actors and filmmakers, and he shows them and
their work genuine respect. It is rare that he presents a negative article re: a film, play, performance etc.

[Captain Tightpants]

But ... why is he working for a tabloid? If he's as good as you claim he is, then surely he would easily get a job with a more-respectable paper and his integrity wouldn't come into question. If he's really that connected, newspapers and television channels would pay handsomely for access to it.

[Jim]

But ... why is he working for a tabloid? If he's as good as you claim he is, then surely he would easily get a job with a more-respectable paper and his integrity wouldn't come into question. If he's really that connected, newspapers and television channels would pay handsomely for access to it.

He might enjoy it. Can't say. I am not Biz Bigglebob.

The point where an actor who is rumoured for or connected to a role stops being rumoured for or connected to the role and accepts it.

That could have happened months ago. What's the argument with Mr Solo actually about, then?

[Captain Tightpants]

That could have happened months ago. What's the argument with Mr Solo actually about, then?

When we know it's official. Let's say Javier Bardem signed on for the film on October 1st - but he didn't annouce it until November 1st. Technically, he's been confirmed for a month - but we have no way of knowing it until November.

[Jim]

I'm not sure we're all that significant to the process. Does it really depend on our knowledge?

[Col. Sun]

But ... why is he working for a tabloid? If he's as good as you claim he is, then surely he would easily get a job with a more-respectable paper and his integrity wouldn't come into question. If he's really that connected, newspapers and television channels would pay handsomely for access to it.

Do feel this is going round in circles. Baz does very well for himself, believe me. And as I said, The Daily Mail provides him with huge readership and lots of perks too. He covers
all the major film festivals around the world, gets invited to previews, premieres, parties, etc. etc. And he doesn't pick up the tab. Plus, he has strong editorial control over
what he puts in his weekly reports.

[PPK_19]

Empire are reporting it now: Finney joins Bond 23

They state Baz Bamigboye as their source. Empire obviously think he's credible too...

[Captain Tightpants]

They state Baz Bamigboye as their source.

But they're all using Bamigboye as their source. Every article on Finney can be traced back to him - there's no way to verify it because no-one else is reporting it.

[marktmurphy]

When Amy Winehouse was said to be the favourite for the QUANTUM OF SOLACE theme (I doubt EON would have gone near her myself), those same faceless producers were talking things up (with the same gushing enthisiasm), and it never eventuated.

To be fair, that was happening. Arnold and Ronson both confirmed it was happening but fell through. So nothing wrong with reporting it.

A lot of the rumours are obvious rubbish, but Finney's fairly plausible and no-one's denying it yet. I won't be surprised if it's true, but I'd be nervous to say I believe it because it's from the Mail, who lie.

[Captain Tightpants]

To be fair, that was happening. Arnold and Ronson both confirmed it was happening but fell through. So nothing wrong with reporting it.

I don't rememner anything about that. And given the way EON took demo tapes from artists, I doubt Winehouse got much futher than a demo tape of her own.

[Shrublands]

When Amy Winehouse was said to be the favourite for the QUANTUM OF SOLACE theme (I doubt EON would have gone near her myself), those same faceless producers were talking things up (with the same gushing enthisiasm), and it never eventuated.

To be fair, that was happening. Arnold and Ronson both confirmed it was happening but fell through. So nothing wrong with reporting it.

Correct, and Michael G Wilson also said that she would have done it had she been well enough. When he made the comment, he also said that he still had her in mind for Bond 23. So the reports were valid.

[Jim]

A lot of the rumours are obvious rubbish, but Finney's fairly plausible and no-one's denying it yet.

Yes. He may had stumbled across a piece of "surprise" casting that will never be confirmed because it's mean to be a "surprise" and the biggest "surprise" - a cameo from Sean Connery - is unlikely. There's probably a grain of something in it, but I'm not losing too much sleep either way. If he's in it, he's in it; if he's not, he's not. I doubt my view of the Daily Mail - fairly entrenched by now, unfortunately - is going to be terribly affected by any of this.

I won't be surprised if it's true, but I'd be nervous to say I believe it because it's from the Mail, who lie.

Worries me more when they tell the truth. That one about Hurrah for the Blackshirts, f'rexample.

[byline]

Great news, if true. Besides the other films already mentioned, I remember Finney from "Wolfen," "Miller's Crossing" and "Nostromo." I seem to recall seeing him in "My Uncle Silas," too.