179 replies to this topic

[killkenny kid]

With his conncetion to the Bourne series. I don't know how I feel about this, but he is a great actor.

[Captain Tightpants]

Judging by the fact they won't release the character name of Albert Finney's character, I'll be willing to bet his name is

Spoiler

Miles Messervy

But why would they do that? Finney is 75 years old, just one year younger than Judi Dench. He's been battling prostate cancer, and as cold as this might sound, he's not really a long-term prospect. I'd much rather they save the Messervy name for someone younger, who will be around for seven films the way Dench has been. I think it would be better to cast someone like Rhys Ifans as a young Miles Messervy, a rising star of the intelligence community who gets promoted to the top job before the age of 50 (a bit of makeup might give hm some grey hairs), but constantly facing scrutiny because of his (relative) youth. I'd love to see the dynamic between Bond and a younger M.

[jamie00007]

Rhys Ifans as Sir Miles? Really?

[Captain Tightpants]

Sir Miles before he was knighted. I'm thinking long-term here: someone that the producers can introduce and develop over time. We could see the camaraderie develop between the two of them, and by the end of Ifans' tenure, he could have become Sir Miles. Say he does seven films - he could be knghted in the fourth. And while the age difference between him and Craig isn't that pronounced, whoever succeeds Craig will be much younger.

[AgentBentley]

Whatever Albert Finney plays, he's always great - loved him from The Dresser and Erin Brockovich to Jason Bourne and Ocean's 12.
He could be M's husband, and as you guys say, that M stands for Messervy and refers to Craig saying that now he knew what M stood for.

[Shrublands]

I think it would be better to cast someone like Rhys Ifans as a young Miles Messervy, a rising star of the intelligence community who gets promoted to the top job before the age of 50 (a bit of makeup might give hm some grey hairs), but constantly facing scrutiny because of his (relative) youth. I'd love to see the dynamic between Bond and a younger M.

If they did that it would be the ‘character’ of Miles Messervy in name only.

[bill007]

Still, seeing ALbert Finney next year appearing in Bond and Bourne movies will require me to seek out Dr. Who as my analyst. It's just going to be a surreal parallel universe kind of thing for me. But, not in any negative way. No, not at all.

[Captain Tightpants]

If they did that it would be the ‘character’ of Miles Messervy in name only.

They gave Bond an origin story. Why can't Messervy have one, too?

Of course, when I think about it, I think Ralph Fiennes is actually Messervy, but my point still stands.

[The Shark]

If they did that it would be the ‘character’ of Miles Messervy in name only.

They gave Bond an origin story. Why can't Messervy have one, too?

Does everyone and their dog have to have an origin story?

[007jamesbond]

I wonder if Albert Finnery will be a Sir Frederick Gray like character......

[Captain Tightpants]

Does everyone and their dog have to have an origin story?

Right, because everyone just appears.

An origin story for Messervy would work because it would address everyone's complaints about the relationship between Bond and Dench-M. If Bond knew Messervy before Messervy became his boss, the camaraderie we saw during the Age of Connery could easily be written into it.

[The Shark]

Does everyone and their dog have to have an origin story?

Right, because everyone just appears.

I'm fine with a vague background, but I'm a bit tired of having to see how so-and-so became so-so-so, and why. It's lazy TV writing.

[archer1949]

Beauty-ful......

Edited by archer1949, 05 November 2011 - 02:23 AM.

[Captain Tightpants]

I'm a bit tired of having to see how so-and-so became so-so-so, and why. It's lazy TV writing.

I think you're selling television a bit short. In many respects, television is a better medium than film, especially for interesting characters. Films are generally about two hours long, but a full season of a television series gives the writers roughly sixteen hours to work with. And some series have some quality writing, better than some films, even if they don't have the budgets of those films.

Take, for example, "Castle" (probably the smartest show on at the moment). A major part of the series' mythology revolves around the unsolved murder of Stana Katic's mother, the catalyst for her becoming a homicide detective. As the series goes on, the mystery starts to unravel, and in the third season finale Knockout, there is a major revelation about a certain character. I won't spoil it, but the revelation means that practivally everything that character said and did for the past three seasons takes on a new meaning. This is clearly something that has been planned from the outset, and it is very well done.

But even then, retroactive changes aren't necessarily bad. At the end of the third season of "NCIS", audiences learned that Mark Harmon's character had a family that was murdered by a Mexican drug lord. This was obviously a retcon, but at the end of the seventh season, it came back up again when a Mexican politician manipulated the NCIS team into taking the case of the dead cartel leader. Although this was born out of a retcon four years previously, the end of the seventh season produced a nice little thriller and some of the best episodes in the series.

Of course, there are some shows that have lousy and lazy writing. "Lost" is the obvious offender here; after six seasons, there were plenty of unresolved plot threads hanging loose, constant changes to continuity and needlessly drawn-out story arcs (but it was pretty obvious that the writers were just making things up halfway through the first season).

I'm not calling for Miles Messervy to be reintroduced with a very involved backstory. My suspicion is that "Skyfall" will refer to an off-the-books operation run by M, one that has the potential to be very embarrassing (and if done correctly, M's actions could have a new meaning - like when she threatens to have Bond killed in CASINO ROYALE; SKYFALL could suggest it was not because he learned her real name, but because she was afraid that he could ahve found out about "Skyfall"). When it comes to light, it ruins her career and the careers of several others. Still reeling from the fallout, Downing Street needs to promote someone as far removed from the controversy as they can find - and they settle on Miles Messervy, the rising star of the intelligence community (who was already being groomed for the top job), and was previously the Station Chief in Shanghai, where Bond first met him during the events of SKYFALL. That's all he needs.

[Pussfeller]

People say that Finney is an unlikely candidate for M because of his professional prestige, advanced age, history of health problems, etc. This assumes that the producers want to cast someone for the long haul. It's possible that he could be contracted for just a few films, like Robert Brown, and then depart at the same time as Craig. I don't see Finney as Messervy material. They'll want the actor playing Sir Miles to make a commitment of several films, or else why bother reintroducing such an iconic character? I bet Finney will be either a Hargreaves-type caretaker M or a Frederick Gray-type political appointee.

[Safari Suit]

Does everyone and their dog have to have an origin story?

Right, because everyone just appears.

In a film they can do. Origin stories can be good, but often they feel like they're more about setting up another entry in a few years than they are about entertaining us now.

[Captain Tightpants]

If it's well-written, I don't see why it can't do both.

[Shrublands]

If they did that it would be the ‘character’ of Miles Messervy in name only.

They gave Bond an origin story. Why can't Messervy have one, too?

But it’s the 'origin story' that changes the character, Sir Miles Messervy is a retired Admiral form the Royale Navy drafted into MI6. He is not a career secret service man who has worked his way up form being an office junior. His background and status as a high-ranking Navy man is more than just back-story, it informs his character and the way he handles being head of the service.

Of course, they may wish to change all this, as I say, that would make him Miles Messervy in name only.

[Captain Tightpants]

But it’s the 'origin story' that changes the character, Sir Miles Messervy is a retired Admiral form the Royale Navy drafted into MI6. He is not a career secret service man who has worked his way up form being an office junior. His background and status as a high-ranking Navy man is more than just back-story, it informs his character and the way he handles being head of the service.

Of course, they may wish to change all this, as I say, that would make him Miles Messervy in name only.

Okay, what if he was a retired Navy officer - not necessarily an Admiral; maybe a Commodore or Rear Admiral - who was head-hunted by the Prime Minister as a future director of MI6, and put in change of a Station in Shanghai to give him a little bit of experience?

It's just a way of introducing the character so that both the audience and Bond get used to him. If Messervy was simply installed as M, we would likely go through the motions of can-I-trust-you-or-not? again. But if Bond meets Messervy in Shanghai, and Messervy can see how Bond operates in the field (which Dench-M has never seen; this was most evident when Bond went to Haiti and was forced to kill Edmund Slate), we bypass all of that. They form a kind of camaraderie between them that lasts even when Messervy is promoted.

[Pussfeller]

Considering the rather tenuous connection between the Bond universe and the reality of the UK intelligence services, Eon can set up the org chart any way they please. I'm thinking that old Miles could be introduced as the head of "naval intelligence", which is presented as something entirely different from MI6. Perhaps it's a bit of a rusty anachronism, underfunded and kept out of the loop on the latest intelligence, looked down upon by MI6, but ultimately Britain's last hope when MI6 is infiltrated. Hence, when Messervy is brought in to become M, he is both a scrappy outsider and a crusty old admiral. And assuming that the rebooted Bond is still technically a naval officer, he would have some reason to know the admiral already, or for the admiral to know him. Rather than "can-I-trust-you" crap, there would be an implicit naval esprit de corps, combined with naval crustiness.

They could even go so far as to completely destroy MI6, after which Bond is reassigned to the other intelligence service of which Messervy is the head. Then that becomes "British intelligence". After all, "British intelligence" is wherever James Bond hangs his hat.

[Captain Tightpants]

They could even go so far as to completely destroy MI6, after which Bond is reassigned to the other intelligence service of which Messervy is the head. Then that becomes "British intelligence". After all, "British intelligence" is wherever James Bond hangs his hat.

Well, my theory is that 'Skyfall' has the potential to be very embarrassing to those involved, and when it comes to light, it ruins their careers. Ralph Fiennes (I'm not buying into the "he's Blofeld!" talk), as Miles Messervy, is called in to clean up the ruins of MI6. It would also be a good way to introduce Moneypenny - as Messervy's secretay, brought in by him to help run the show.

It would also make for a great ending, with Messervy revealed as the new boss.

[Pussfeller]

I would love for Fiennes to be Sir Miles, especially if he sticks around for a while. But wasn't it confirmed that his character would be a villain?

[Captain Tightpants]

But wasn't it confirmed that his character would be a villain?

Nope, that's just media speculation. Sam Mendes said that "I can't tell you much about it" when he announced that Fiennes is in the film.

[jamie00007]

I'd love to see Fiennes as Q. Its a little left field, but I can totally imagine him playing a great Major Boothroyd.

[Pussfeller]

But wasn't it confirmed that his character would be a villain?

Nope, that's just media speculation. Sam Mendes said that "I can't tell you much about it" when he announced that Fiennes is in the film.

Really? I was under the impression that he was definitely playing a baddie. If not, then Messervy seems like a natural fit for an actor like Fiennes. He's the right age (well, a bit young), he's a talented, respected actor who can do justice to the part, he's familiar with the character from having read the novels, and he's certainly not averse to playing recurring characters in profitable British film franchises. Personally, I'd find the triumphant return of Sir Miles even more exciting than the return of Blofeld. And the happiest side-effect of the reboot thus far.

Here's hoping.

[Captain Tightpants]

Really? I was under the impression that he was definitely playing a baddie. If not, then Messervy seems like a natural fit for an actor like Fiennes. He's the right age (well, a bit young), he's a talented, respected actor who can do justice to the part, he's familiar with the character from having read the novels, and he's certainly not averse to playing recurring characters in profitable British film franchises. Personally, I'd find the triumphant return of Sir Miles even more exciting than the return of Blofeld. And the happiest side-effect of the reboot thus far.

Here's hoping.

Well, that's where I was getting the idea from. The part is said to be "darkly complex" - again, that is just speculation - and everyone took it to mean Blofeld, but I don't really see anything darkly complex about Blofeld. Certainly not in the way he was portrayed in the films. He was ruthless and he was callous, but he was never particularly complex; he was almost always motivated by money. But when you think about it, Miles Messervy is also a dark and complex character: he has to be comfortable with ordering the deaths of others, and with the idea of sending someone like Bond to their deaths. And if M's past leads to her downfall (as the synopsis ilmplies), Messervy may well have to do it under intense public and political scrutiny. If that's not "darkly complex", I don't know what is.

[Mercator]

I think Albert R Finney will play the Blodfeld. He has the right years and looks like a villain.

[Vauxhall]

I think Albert R Finney will play the Blodfeld. He has the right years and looks like a villain.

If they decide to bring back Blofeld, I think it would be a bit disappointing if they used a 75-year-old actor. I'd like them to have the option to have a fairly combative actor in his 50s, who could appear in a fair few movies.

[George88]

Feinnes might play, in a nod to the Authorised Biography, Bond's older brother Henry and at the end it turns out he's Henry Blofeld. My dear old thing.

Or perhaps not.

[Jim]

Feinnes might play, in a nod to the Authorised Biography, Bond's older brother Henry and at the end it turns out he's Henry Blofeld. My dear old thing.

Or perhaps not.

Arf.