207 replies to this topic

[smudge76]

Ha ha cheers Harry. To be honest i would never have noticed but was watching LD today and after reading this post i just thought of that. Thing is like Dalton, but he did look slightly unmasculine at that moment however when likes Connery and Lazenby smoke they look fine (now i sound gay). I noticed via your profile your serving. anywhere nice (excuse opsec)

Edited by smudge76, 02 February 2011 - 05:17 PM.

[Harry Fawkes]

Ha ha cheers Harry. To be honest i would never have noticed but was watching LD today and after reading this post i just thought of that. Thing is like Dalton, but he did look slightly unmasculine at that moment however when likes Connery and Lazenby smoke they look fine (now i sound gay). I noticed via your profile your serving. anywhere nice (excuse opsec)

Oh, yeah. Very very nice place I serve. Let's just say the days are lovely and warm here and the sun is almost always shining bright.

But please don't think it's anything special!

[Jim]

Actually, I think it was good smudge76 apologized.

Agreed.

Smudges can always be rubbed out.

Do play nicely, my honeys.

[smudge76]

Ha ha cheers Harry. To be honest i would never have noticed but was watching LD today and after reading this post i just thought of that. Thing is like Dalton, but he did look slightly unmasculine at that moment however when likes Connery and Lazenby smoke they look fine (now i sound gay). I noticed via your profile your serving. anywhere nice (excuse opsec)

Oh, yeah. Very very nice place I serve. Let's just say the days are lovely and warm here and the sun is almost always shining bright.

But please don't think it's anything special!

Cheers for narrowing it down. Spend most my time in sandpit now. I left end of 07, and since have been doing psd.Pays the bills i suppose.

[Harry Fawkes]

Ha ha cheers Harry. To be honest i would never have noticed but was watching LD today and after reading this post i just thought of that. Thing is like Dalton, but he did look slightly unmasculine at that moment however when likes Connery and Lazenby smoke they look fine (now i sound gay). I noticed via your profile your serving. anywhere nice (excuse opsec)

Oh, yeah. Very very nice place I serve. Let's just say the days are lovely and warm here and the sun is almost always shining bright.

But please don't think it's anything special!

Cheers for narrowing it down. Spend most my time in sandpit now. I left end of 07, and since have been doing psd.Pays the bills i suppose.

Good to know you mate. 3 years left and I'm out like a bullet. Will hopefully make WOI this year. Anyway, take care!

[smudge76]

Actually, I think it was good smudge76 apologized.

Agreed.

Smudges can always be rubbed out.

Do play nicely, my honeys.

I thought i'd try to be mature about things and stamp anything out before gets out of hand, thats why i apologised. I am just to big and ugly and say it how it is. Good to meet you by way SIR.

Ha ha cheers Harry. To be honest i would never have noticed but was watching LD today and after reading this post i just thought of that. Thing is like Dalton, but he did look slightly unmasculine at that moment however when likes Connery and Lazenby smoke they look fine (now i sound gay). I noticed via your profile your serving. anywhere nice (excuse opsec)

Oh, yeah. Very very nice place I serve. Let's just say the days are lovely and warm here and the sun is almost always shining bright.

But please don't think it's anything special!

Yes you aswell, stay low and move fast for those three years. take care
Cheers for narrowing it down. Spend most my time in sandpit now. I left end of 07, and since have been doing psd.Pays the bills i suppose.

Good to know you mate. 3 years left and I'm out like a bullet. Will hopefully make WOI this year. Anyway, take care!

[Jim]

Actually, I think it was good smudge76 apologized.

Agreed.

Smudges can always be rubbed out.

Do play nicely, my honeys.

I thought i'd try to be mature about things and stamp anything out before gets out of hand, thats why i apologised. I am just to big and ugly and say it how it is. Good to meet you by way SIR.

Nice to meet you too. Ma'am.

[Harry Fawkes]

Actually, I think it was good smudge76 apologized.

Agreed.

Smudges can always be rubbed out.

Do play nicely, my honeys.

I thought i'd try to be mature about things and stamp anything out before gets out of hand, thats why i apologised. I am just to big and ugly and say it how it is. Good to meet you by way SIR.

Ha ha cheers Harry. To be honest i would never have noticed but was watching LD today and after reading this post i just thought of that. Thing is like Dalton, but he did look slightly unmasculine at that moment however when likes Connery and Lazenby smoke they look fine (now i sound gay). I noticed via your profile your serving. anywhere nice (excuse opsec)

Oh, yeah. Very very nice place I serve. Let's just say the days are lovely and warm here and the sun is almost always shining bright.

But please don't think it's anything special!

Yes you aswell, stay low and move fast for those three years. take care
Cheers for narrowing it down. Spend most my time in sandpit now. I left end of 07, and since have been doing psd.Pays the bills i suppose.

Good to know you mate. 3 years left and I'm out like a bullet. Will hopefully make WOI this year. Anyway, take care!

Haven't heard that in ages mate! I'm on first name basis with my men. Oh, and let's not go anywhere near the debate about familiarity breeds contempt

[Goodnight]

I understand what Harry Fawkes is saying, but I still think smoking is not in the slightest bit attractive or sexy.


So from a female fans point of view (other females may disagree) I'd prefer it if he didn't smoke.

[Binyamin]

So suddenly Daniel goes from "hot" to "not" just because of a smoke?

[smudge76]

Actually, I think it was good smudge76 apologized.

Agreed.

Smudges can always be rubbed out.

Do play nicely, my honeys.

I thought i'd try to be mature about things and stamp anything out before gets out of hand, thats why i apologised. I am just to big and ugly and say it how it is. Good to meet you by way SIR.

Ha ha cheers Harry. To be honest i would never have noticed but was watching LD today and after reading this post i just thought of that. Thing is like Dalton, but he did look slightly unmasculine at that moment however when likes Connery and Lazenby smoke they look fine (now i sound gay). I noticed via your profile your serving. anywhere nice (excuse opsec)

Oh, yeah. Very very nice place I serve. Let's just say the days are lovely and warm here and the sun is almost always shining bright.

But please don't think it's anything special!

Yes you aswell, stay low and move fast for those three years. take care
Cheers for narrowing it down. Spend most my time in sandpit now. I left end of 07, and since have been doing psd.Pays the bills i suppose.

Good to know you mate. 3 years left and I'm out like a bullet. Will hopefully make WOI this year. Anyway, take care!

Haven't heard that in ages mate! I'm on first name basis with my men. Oh, and let's not go anywhere near the debate about familiarity breeds contempt

I have been out since 07 and even out on task looking after brit mil i still end up calling officers sir.

[Sark2.0]

Although I don't have a particularly strong opinion on Bond smoking, I hope people realize that "Bond shouldn't be PC" is a really bad argument. Perhaps he should smack women around too, that's pretty un-PC.

And if anyone thinks that Bond smoking wouldn't lead to impressionable teenagers trying it, you're contradicting what psychologists already know. How many people have ordered a martini because of James Bond? Thousands, including more than a couple members of this board. Now, just because someone tries cigarettes doesn't mean they'll become addicted and doesn't mean they'll get cancer, but it's pretty indisputable that many (young) people take up smoking because the coolness factor. If they try it for awhile and realize it's not that cool, no harm done, but some won't (and for the record, nicotine is more addictive than many illegal drugs).

And please don't counter-argue by saying "well maybe Bond shouldn't kill anyone, because kids might try that too." You'll just be making yourself seem silly. There's obviously a difference.

FYI, I say this all as someone who enjoys cigars and has smoked the occasional cigarette (I was Humphrey Bogart twice for Halloween) .

Edited by Sark2.0, 03 February 2011 - 03:11 AM.

[The Shark]

Although I don't have a particularly strong opinion on Bond smoking, I hope people realize that "Bond shouldn't be PC" is a really bad argument. Perhaps he should smack women around too, that's pretty un-PC.

And if anyone thinks that Bond smoking wouldn't lead to impressionable teenagers trying it, you're contradicting what psychologists already know. How many people have ordered a martini because of James Bond? Thousands, including more than a couple members of this board. Now, just because someone tries cigarettes doesn't mean they'll become addicted and doesn't mean they'll get cancer, but it's pretty indisputable that many (young) people take up smoking because the coolness factor. If they try it for awhile and realize it's not that cool, no harm done, but some won't (and for the record, nicotine is more addictive than many illegal drugs).

Should Martinis now be outlawed from Bond, too?

[Garth007]

So suddenly Daniel goes from "hot" to "not" just because of a smoke?

Daniel craig looks like hell in this picture. This is how i would of pictured bond in QoS through the whole thing. not just the scene on the air plane. Now as for him smoking eh i rather not during these days everyone is trying to quit smoking so i rather him clean.

[Binyamin]

Perhaps he should smack women around too, that's pretty un-PC.

Uh, when necessary, yes he should. It's a character in a movie. James Bond is a rough man at times. Why is this a problem?

And please don't counter-argue by saying "well maybe Bond shouldn't kill anyone, because kids might try that too." You'll just be making yourself seem silly. There's obviously a difference.

No, there isn't. The fact that people are okay with movie killing, but not with movie smoking, is the "silly" part here.

Look, Bond films are grown up movies. Quantum of Solace was PG-13 bordering on R. That means that the audience is either old enough to make decisions for themselves, or ought to have parents for that purpose. It's called "personal responsibility" and "free will." If you don't want to smoke, then don't. If you do, have at it.

Blaming an assassin character on a movie screen for poor personal choices is just plain sad.

Edited by Binyamin, 03 February 2011 - 05:27 AM.

[Mr Teddy Bear]

No, there isn't. The fact that people are okay with movie killing, but not with movie smoking, is the "silly" part here.

Any reasonable, sane person isn't going to be influenced into killing or violence from a James Bond movie, while I think many would agree seeing James Bond smoke could influence certain types to try smoking.

I agree, PC trends shouldn't really come into it, as James Bond should be an adult character and not a role model to the younger crowd. However, I don't think Bond should smoke on screen for reasons others have stated;

Not attractive or sexy
Does not project the same image/ideals it did back in the 50s and 60s
Not believable considering the physicality that Craig's Bond displays
Many countries have laws as to which establishments and outside public areas you may smoke in

Conversely the main reason to have Bond smoke (because he used to) is much less convincing.

[Messervy]

And if anyone thinks that Bond smoking wouldn't lead to impressionable teenagers trying it, you're contradicting what psychologists already know. How many people have ordered a martini because of James Bond? Thousands, including more than a couple members of this board. Now, just because someone tries cigarettes doesn't mean they'll become addicted and doesn't mean they'll get cancer, but it's pretty indisputable that many (young) people take up smoking because the coolness factor. If they try it for awhile and realize it's not that cool, no harm done, but some won't (and for the record, nicotine is more addictive than many illegal drugs).

So?
I do smoke cigars from time to time; what's the harm?
I do drink Martini (although I prefer Champagne or a nice old Porto wine); what's the harm?
I disagree with what many (but not all) psychologists say and I don't get this whole argument about "Bond shouldn't do this or else others will try it": I think that people who want to try smoking and/or drinking would've tried anyway, with or without seeing Bond do it.

[SecretAgentFan]

My take: cigarettes or cigars or pipes or any other smoking device do not characterize Bond. It´s his elegance, his ruthlessness, his daring and his enjoyment of the luxury in the face of constant danger.

During Fleming´s times cigarettes were a sign for sophisticated enjoyment. Nobody knew or wanted to know that nicotine kills you.

Nowadays we know that. There is nothing PC about this fact. Should a new millenium-Bond still say: hey, I smoke therefore I am cool? Doubt it.

And yes, before the next argument is: hey, he shouldn´t drink then either... well, alcohol, while hazardous to your health as well, can be enjoyed if one does not overdo it. Nicotine however ruins you and makes you addicted very fast.

So, Bond IMO should remain a non-smoker. He definitely should not light up a smoke just to make him the character of the 60´s again. Or do you want him to again complain about the Beatles too?

[Messervy]

And yes, before the next argument is: hey, he shouldn´t drink then either... well, alcohol, while hazardous to your health as well, can be enjoyed if one does not overdo it. Nicotine however ruins you and makes you addicted very fast.

I strongly disagree: smoking (I mean, cigars), if not overdone, does not kill you and doesn't make you an addict. Just the same as alcohol, actually. So I don't get your point in dissociating the two.

Anyway, overall I disagree on one thing that's been said: Bond is an addict. He's not some posh jet-setter. He "takes pleasure in great beauty", lives on the edge, and knows bloody well that he's ruining his health in the process. He kills and knows he can get killed. That's Bond. That's what defines him. So, yes, smoking, drinking, driving fast, etc. are integral parts of the character. I'm not talking about being PC or not, I'm talking about being Bond or not. James Bond was designed that way for a reason. Just because smoking isn't considered "cool" anymore doesn't mean Bond should stop smoking. Bond should not stop smoking / drinking / driving fast, because he wouldn't be Bond anymore if he did.

Or do you want him to again complain about the Beatles too?

Actually, that would be pretty cool (with a reference to nowadays Pop star, that is), I'd like that.

[Goodnight]

I don't mind Bond drinking Vodka martini's at all.


I understand what people are saying about the Fleming connection of smoking, but I find smoking completely unattractive.

Exactly! It is not just about being PC and a role model (well of course that is under consideration as well) but drinking martinis is still considered glamorous and smoking is not anymore like it was in the 50 and 60s. Now in modern movies it is always villains or degenerate drug users that smoke.

Agreed. I think Bond drinking is fine. I mean it not as if he gets completely bladdered and ends up urinating in alleyways, vomiting on his own shoes, performing horrendous renditions of classic power ballads at karaoke or even phoning M at half three in the morning saying 'I luuufffff yoouuuuu sooo muuuucch'.


I do agree with what Zencat said here about Bond maybe lighting up a cigar would be fine.

[Binyamin]

Anyway, overall I disagree on one thing that's been said: Bond is an addict. He's not some posh jet-setter.

Precisely, Messervy. This idea that Bond is a clean-living role model is crazy.

[Messervy]

On the whole, this topic is very interesting because, although it may seem anecdotal, this discussion we have on whether or not Bond should smoke reveals the way each of us comprehends the character.

To me, as I've said, Bond is a living-on-the-edge spy, who enjoys what he can get from life while it lasts and thus clearly burns the candle at both ends. Hence his smoking, drinking, etc.

To others, he has to be a healthy spy, running, jumping, exercising, etc. Hence his not smoking and occasionally-drinking.
But what I would object to this is:
- I don't think this is how/why Bond was created (see my post above)
- I think people are wrong in assuming that if Bond smoked, he wouldn't be fit enough to do all the things he does: I mean, do those people really think someone could run along an elevated crane, get Aston Martins as company car, get those gadgets, visit only luxury hotels, etc.? This is a fictional character; we don't need to be able to scientifically prove everything he performs. So this "reality check" argument, to me, is irrelevant.

Edited by Messervy, 03 February 2011 - 05:27 PM.

[FLEMINGFAN]

Nothing better than a martini and cigarette, which is why Fleming/Bond loved them (and did not trust those that did not). Those that have not partaked, really do not get it.
The cool thing is that a fictional character can smoke 60 cigarteetes a day, drink four double-bourbons, two double martinis and somne pink champagne and feel absolutely fine the next day. It's nice to be fictional.
It is both part of, and the fun of, the character and if you want to start purifing the character, then stop the killing, drinking, and casual sex.
What fun that would be!

[Binyamin]

Not to mention the fact that there ARE many Bond-like people in real life who smoke, even today. The U.S. military is full of smokers. It's a way to relax from a stressful job. I've heard the (I believe true) story of a Navy SEAL instructor who would motivate BUD/S trainees in Coronado by outrunning them WHILE smoking a cigar.

Are these guys going to live to be 103 in perfect health? No, but they don't care. They're planning on wearing out their bodies from the job anyway, if not dying early. This is Bond's mentality.

[The Shark]

Not to mention the fact that there ARE many Bond-like people in real life who smoke, even today. The U.S. military is full of smokers. It's a way to relax from a stressful job. I've heard the (I believe true) story of a Navy SEAL instructor who would motivate BUD/S trainees in Coronado by outrunning them WHILE smoking a cigar.

Are these guys going to live to be 103 in perfect health? No, but they don't care. They're planning on wearing out their bodies from the job anyway, if not dying early. This is Bond's mentality.

Agreed entirely there. All of this mother-hen, welfare state revisionism of the character from Sark2.0 and co is quite disheartening. Failing to understand how the symbol of tobacco (particularly now, since it's a taboo) is fundamental to Bond's own mental makeup and flaws. An imperfect out-of-place hero for an ever changing world. That's part of what makes him so compelling, those warts, what we can see in ourselves.

By effectively diluting the character to appease the standards of our Nanny State culture, your slowly killing off his identity. Lobby groups be dammed, it's not glamorising the vice - it's unprejudiced truth. Something many can't tolerate.

[Rufus Ffolkes]

By effectively diluting the character to appease the standards of our Nanny State culture, your slowly killing off his identity. Lobby groups be dammed, it's not glamorising the vice - it's unprejudiced truth. Something many can't tolerate.

Except that cinema Bond was never all that much of a smoker to begin with. Sure, there's Connery's iconic introduction lighting a cigarette in Dr. No, but you rarely see him smoking in subsequent films. I don't seem to remember him with a cigarette in Goldfinger, Thunderball and Diamnods are Forever at all. He smokes in You Only Live Twice, but that's more for the sake of showing off the gadget than anything else.

Moore has cigars in his first couple of outings, as does Brosnan in Die Another Day, but neither Bond lights up in any subsequent films.

The only real smokers in the series are the short-timers, Lazenby and Dalton. So it's not as though Bond, in his cinematic incarnation anyway, was always a heavy smoker who has been neutered by the PC mentality.

[The Shark]

By effectively diluting the character to appease the standards of our Nanny State culture, your slowly killing off his identity. Lobby groups be dammed, it's not glamorising the vice - it's unprejudiced truth. Something many can't tolerate.

Except that cinema Bond was never all that much of a smoker to begin with. Sure, there's Connery's iconic introduction lighting a cigarette in Dr. No, but you rarely see him smoking in subsequent films. I don't seem to remember him with a cigarette in Goldfinger, Thunderball and Diamnods are Forever at all. He smokes in You Only Live Twice, but that's more for the sake of showing off the gadget than anything else.

Moore has cigars in his first couple of outings, as does Brosnan in Die Another Day, but neither Bond lights up in any subsequent films.

Not to forget Dalton Bond's smoking habits, nor Lazenby's. And besides, DIE ANOTHER DAY was only 6 years ago, and the smoking in that film came squarely out of the blue.

Of course. Film Bond was never a chain-smoker, but I don't think any one on this thread is demanding that. Besides, too much focus on such a compulsion would drag the film down. A couple of fags or cigars smoked by Bond would work fine.

You don't need a montage sequence to convey that Bond's a tobacco or Benzedrine addict.

[jaguar007]

I still don't think Bond being PC is the only reason we don't see Bond smoke on screen anymore. To many people these days, smoking is unattractive. I know many women who will not date a guy who smokes, it is a deal breaker (of course I know many women who smoke as well). I think it may have more to do with EON not wanting to turn off the female audience. Yes, the literary Bond smoked 60 cigarettes a day, but Bond was created in the 50s and we are certainly not in the 50s anymore.

[Harry Fawkes]

Not to mention the fact that there ARE many Bond-like people in real life who smoke, even today. The U.S. military is full of smokers. It's a way to relax from a stressful job. I've heard the (I believe true) story of a Navy SEAL instructor who would motivate BUD/S trainees in Coronado by outrunning them WHILE smoking a cigar.

Are these guys going to live to be 103 in perfect health? No, but they don't care. They're planning on wearing out their bodies from the job anyway, if not dying early. This is Bond's mentality.

I really hate doing this but I can't resist. I'm in the army. Have been for 22 years. I'm 41. I smoke roughly 40 cigarettes a day. I do an army APFT (Physical fitness test) every 4 months. I can run faster than 70 percent of my Regiment's young uns with my eyes closed, so to speak. I am a fully qualified mountain climber and have trained with a number of foreign services amongst which I can safely mention the Italian ALPINI and Para Regiment. I can swim 200 meters towing another man in less than 4 minutes in full water ensemble (And that's less than some of my younger men can do). I abseil out of helicopters onto ships at sea on a number of occasions and go through to do what I have to do. I also have regular BFTs (that's Battle Fitness Test for the uninitiated) and believe me when I tell you that I always end up beasting along a couple of young lads who don't smoke along the way. As I said I smoke, heavily, I drink, heavily, I play, hard. I'm not going to say women find me irresistibly sexy even though I smoke but what I will say is that I can charm the hell out of most women I set my evil eye upon if I wanted to and the fact is that almost all the women I have charmed the hell out of and ended up in bed with were non-smokers themselves. And yeah, when I put that cigarette in the corner of my mouth and light it up with my golden lighter a la Sean Connery, I can see it in their eyes that they become intrigued, hooked even. You can almost feel the want in them so please don't fill me up with a load of cobblers that most women find smoking unattractive and unsexy. In fact, the majority of women find the dark, cruel traits of a man a wonderful, wonderful place to go.

To conclude, most arguments in favour of Bond not smoking are based on a simple non-understanding of who the heck they're talking about. Hellllo!!! This is James Bond here! Ian Fleming's James Bond. No other character. As Messervy and Binyamin so beautifully put it before me:

...'Bond takes pleasure in great beauty, lives on the edge, and knows bloody well that he's ruining his health in the process. He kills and knows he can get killed. That's Bond. That's what defines him. So, yes, smoking, drinking, driving fast, etc. are integral parts of the character.'

...'Not to mention the fact that there ARE many Bond-like people in real life who smoke, even today. The U.S. military is full of smokers. It's a way to relax from a stressful job. I've heard the (I believe true) story of a Navy SEAL instructor who would motivate BUD/S trainees in Coronado by outrunning them WHILE smoking a cigar.

Are these guys going to live to be 103 in perfect health? No, but they don't care. They're planning on wearing out their bodies from the job anyway, if not dying early. This is Bond's mentality.'

[Stephen Spotswood]

I understand it was R J Reynolds who paid the Bond people $10,000.00 just to have a scene of Bond lighting up, without a brand even being noticeable. They did too in Timothy Dalton's Licensed to Kill.