207 replies to this topic

[jaguar007]

Of course he's fit, he's Bond.

But Bond is meant to be a hedonist, someone who lives for the moment. Not a machine.

In other words, Bond shouldn't have a six pack.

And Craig did not have a very visible six pack in CR either. Plus Bond is a fantasy figure. He can eat, drink and still be in great shape. Craig was in great shape but nowhere as bulky or shredded as Stallone or The Governator.

Plus I prefer seeing a Bond doing those physical things Bond does when the actor actually looks like he can do them, rather than having an overweight Bond doing it.

[Davy]

Yes.like the chase scene at the post credits part of CR...can you imagine Moore doing that?

[Attempting Re-entry]

Rog could've done it blindfolded.

[Chief of SIS]

Rog could've done it blindfolded.

Connery could have done it drunk.

[The Shark]

But none of that to me speaks of mockery or a satirical attitude of Fleming - or Bond - towards men who shape their bodies after a classical ideal. To the contrary, the minute discription of Grant's statuesque appearence speaks of awe and appreciation to me.

I think it's a little bit more complex than that. Awe and appreciation, along with a jealousy and suspicion. And with Bond, a perfect, flawless physique was what other men had, not Bond himself - who was never the finest fighter or most physically fit man in the room. He won through guile, determination and ingenuity, not brawn.

And Craig did not have a very visible six pack in CR either.

He did, in comparison to past Bonds who had more realistic bodies.

Plus I prefer seeing a Bond doing those physical things Bond does when the actor actually looks like he can do them, rather than having an overweight Bond doing it.

No human being of any level of fitness could perform Madagascar or Miami airport chases in real time. Those are entirely Hollywood make believe. Thank the stunt doubles, stunt coordinators, actors, director, cameramen, DP, and editor for making it look relatively believable.

Plus Bond is a fantasy figure.

Then why does it matter what he looks like while running up cranes? It's all nonsense.

[00 Brosnan]

I still don't really see it. Being fit/in shape and dressing like a professional doesn't make someone a metro-sexual. If they're flamboyant about it and/or obsess over it I could see it, but Bond doesn't do that. Craig's Bond in particular is rough and dirty, he likes nice suits and exotic drinks, but it doesn't define him and he's not afraid to throw down.

That's the definition of masculinity in my opinion. Confident, cool, stylish, w/o being obsessive about it and not afraid to throw down and get dirty. I've honestly never thought of Bond as a metro-sexual, in fact this topic is the first time i've ever seen the thought brought up.

[The Shark]

he likes nice suits and exotic drinks, but it doesn't define him and he's not afraid to throw down.

But does Craig's Bond smoke? No. Does he indulge in rich meals? Rarely. Does he ever take uppers and downers? No. Does he get a lot of tail? Not much.

He is a half-monk/half-hitman. And because of that, a far cry from Fleming.

[00 Brosnan]

he likes nice suits and exotic drinks, but it doesn't define him and he's not afraid to throw down.

But does Craig's Bond smoke? No. Does he indulge in rich meals? Rarely. Does he ever take uppers and downers? No. Does he get a lot of tail? Not much.

He is a half-monk/half-hitman. And because of that, a far cry from Fleming.

So...that makes him metro-sexual? Maybe I am misunderstanding you at this point, idk. But, he clearly could get more "tail" if that's what he was focused on and I don't see what indulging in "rich meals" has to do w/ anything. I honestly couldn't care less how far or close Craig's Bond is to Flemings...the on-screen Bond's have always been different from the novels.

[The Shark]

he likes nice suits and exotic drinks, but it doesn't define him and he's not afraid to throw down.

But does Craig's Bond smoke? No. Does he indulge in rich meals? Rarely. Does he ever take uppers and downers? No. Does he get a lot of tail? Not much.

He is a half-monk/half-hitman. And because of that, a far cry from Fleming.

So...that makes him metro-sexual? Maybe I am misunderstanding you at this point, idk. But, he clearly could get more "tail" if that's what he was focused on and I don't see what indulging in "rich meals" has to do w/ anything.

A metrosexual by definition cares mostly about himself, his body, his cloths, and his diet. Eating rich meals would put on flab, and compromise his BMI. Chasing tail would require showing interest in someone other than himself.

Another words, Craig's Bond is designed to appeal to educated women and homosexual men.

I honestly couldn't care less how far or close Craig's Bond is to Flemings...the on-screen Bond's have always been different from the novels.

But aren't the filmmakers trying make a conscious attempt to get closer to Fleming's novels?

[jamie00007]

My problem with Bond smoking is that it simply isnt cool anymore (and this is coming from a smoker). The anti-smoking lobby has been pretty successful in changing the image of the smoker being a debonair movie star to being low class trailer trash. Connery lighting up a smoke in DN might have been the coolest thing on the screen in 1962. These days to a lot of people it would be like Bond drinking beer out of a can. Do we want to see Bond ducking out into the alley behind some ritzy casino to get his fix? Thats more the reality of it these days.

No, the only smoking I'd like to see Bond do is on an expensive cigar.

[Loomis]

Do we want to see Bond ducking out into the alley behind some ritzy casino to get his fix? Thats more the reality of it these days.

Perfectly put. No one ever asks where the Bond of 2011 would be able to do his smoking.

I too am a smoker, and I'd agree that it's about as uncool as you can get. The call in fandom for Bond to start smoking onscreen again always baffles me. The celluloid Bond has been a nonsmoker for decades. Neither Moore nor Brosnan was ever seen with a cigarette, and even back in the 1960s 007 hardly ever lit up (Connery doesn't smoke at all in DIAMONDS ARE FOREVER, if I'm not mistaken, and even in his other films comes across as a social smoker who can take it or leave it).

I wonder whether any Bond fan has ever counted the number of times Bond is seen with a cigarette onscreen. Probably. I doubt that the figure is higher than ten or so. You're talking about a couple of blink-and-you'll-miss it moments per film.

And why don't proponents of the celluloid Bond as a smoker ever demand that he also uses Benzedrine (or whatever the modern equivalent would be) or has a three-inch scar down his cheek?

[Dustin]

Oh, I think I've read The Shark voting for benzedrine before.

As for that scar, I'm fairly sure the Craig haters and all those fans suffering from massive cases of inferiority complex now would simply love to help out.

[The Shark]

Do we want to see Bond ducking out into the alley behind some ritzy casino to get his fix? Thats more the reality of it these days.

Perfectly put. No one ever asks where the Bond of 2011 would be able to do his smoking.

I too am a smoker, and I'd agree that it's about as uncool as you can get. The call in fandom for Bond to start smoking onscreen again always baffles me. The celluloid Bond has been a nonsmoker for decades. Neither Moore nor Brosnan was ever seen with a cigarette, and even back in the 1960s 007 hardly ever lit up (Connery doesn't smoke at all in DIAMONDS ARE FOREVER, if I'm not mistaken, and even in his other films comes across as a social smoker who can take it or leave it).

Dalton smoked cigarettes, and both Moore and Brosnan smoked cigars. It's only been 3 films since the last time we Bond light up.

Oh, I think I've read The Shark voting for benzedrine before.

Yes. A man of Bond's profession would require a healthy subscription of uppers and downers.

[Iroquois]

With regards to Craig's physique, remember that this man is Ex-SBS, and his hobbies include climbing, skiing, diving, swimming and running. Add to that his high-octane adventures and it's only natural that the man would be lean. Craig does not have the body of someone who lifts weights while watching himself in the mirror. I believe he did a lot of circuit training in preparation for the part, and his workout for QOS was based around functionality rather than appearance. Although Craig trained for appearance in CR, it was to have the appearance of someone who doesn't exercise out of vanity, but because they are ex-military with a high-octane job and hobbies.

Fitness was very important to Fleming's Bond, I remember in OHMSS, Bond worries whether his muscles can cope with a quick getaway from Blofeld's HQ via skis, and begins working on them. We also know that Bond is rather lean, and exercises in the morning and (as I mentioned) his hobbies consist mainly of solitary sports.

I don't see why there's anything un-Bondian about the character being lean, it makes sense. It's not like the man has a clean lifestyle in the new films, he's over-indulgent as ever, watch the plane scene in QOS.

With regards to him smoking, I don't think it matters really. Cigarettes aren't 'cool' anymore, and are usually seen as a rather disgusting habit (no offense to any smokers on the forums). Not to mention that smoking is just awkward these days, it wouldn't represent Bond living life to the full, it would seem more like Bond was awkwardly being held back by an addiction. As many have said, however, I wouldn't mind him smoking a cigar, as they still seem somewhat elegant. I think we can still see (and have seen) his indulgent lifestyle without smoke, but it makes sense either way.

Edited by Iroquois, 21 April 2011 - 03:55 PM.

[The Shark]

Connery lighting up a smoke in DN might have been the coolest thing on the screen in 1962.

And it still is.

It's not like the man has a clean lifestyle in the new films, he's over-indulgent as ever, watch the plane scene in QOS.

He drank 7 or so Vodka Martinis on the plane (though we didn't see it). That's an exception, not the rule.

Fitness was very important to Fleming's Bond, I remember in OHMSS, Bond worries whether his muscles can cope with a quick getaway from Blofeld's HQ via skis, and begins working on them.

Those are not the thoughts of man with a perfect level of physical fitness, as with Craig. And remember, Bond is breathless and distraught at the end of the chase.

[Iroquois]

It's not like the man has a clean lifestyle in the new films, he's over-indulgent as ever, watch the plane scene in QOS.

He drank 7 or so Vodka Martinis on the plane (though we didn't see it). That's an exception, not the rule.

Fitness was very important to Fleming's Bond, I remember in OHMSS, Bond worries whether his muscles can cope with a quick getaway from Blofeld's HQ via skis, and begins working on them.

Those are not the thoughts of man with a perfect level of physical fitness, as with Craig. And remember, Bond is breathless and distraught at the end of the chase.

He also collapses after the Miami Airport sequence, and is physically and mentally distraught after the stairwell fight in CR, and he downs whiskey to recover.

We don't get a chance to see him recover from the Parkour chase however, as it cuts away. Same with QOS, as the pacing of the film is rather breathless. But he's damn well struggling to keep up with Mollaka, that was the point of the scene, to show that he struggles but never gives up.

I suppose OHMSS wasn't the best example, as Bond is a veteran in that book and is becoming burnt out, which is the contextual opposite to his situation in CR and QOS, where he's young and fresh. But I was trying to show how fitness was important to Bond due to the nature of his work, and he does indeed work out as shown in FRWL, with noticeable results, as seen in Doctor No. However, we still don't know the level of fitness for Craig's Bond, we just know he's lean and has an active lifestyle. Judging by his food and drink orders in CR, I wouldn't say he's diet/health/body conscious.

Edited by Iroquois, 21 April 2011 - 04:54 PM.

[jaguar007]

. Does he indulge in rich meals? Rarely. Does he ever take uppers and downers? No. Does he get a lot of tail? Not much.

He is a half-monk/half-hitman. And because of that, a far cry from Fleming.

We did see Craig eating Lamb and drinking a Chateau Angelus on the train in CR, how often did we see Connery, Lazenby, Moore, Dalton or Brosnan eating rich meals or taking uppers and downers? Craig had Solange and Vesper in CR and Fields in QoS. He drank in several scenes in CR and QoS. Brosnan never smoked a cigar until his 4th film and Moore only smoked cigars in his first 2. Why criticize Craig when the other Bond's are just as guilty of not being as indulgent as Fleming's Bond.

[00 Brosnan]

I don't know about all this. Being an American, I think most Americans think of metro-sexuality more as a style..as in one's appearance and attitude towards commonly masculine things.

Being self-absorbed, avoiding uppers, downers, rich meals, and being a health/fitness nut....I just don't really see that correlating to being a metro-sexual as none of those things are masculine or feminine leaning. Again, maybe....maybe if someone was overly flamboyant about these things..but Craig's Bond isn't.

[The Shark]

It's not like the man has a clean lifestyle in the new films, he's over-indulgent as ever, watch the plane scene in QOS.

He drank 7 or so Vodka Martinis on the plane (though we didn't see it). That's an exception, not the rule.

Fitness was very important to Fleming's Bond, I remember in OHMSS, Bond worries whether his muscles can cope with a quick getaway from Blofeld's HQ via skis, and begins working on them.

Those are not the thoughts of man with a perfect level of physical fitness, as with Craig. And remember, Bond is breathless and distraught at the end of the chase.

He also collapses after the Miami Airport sequence, and is physically and mentally distraught after the stairwell fight in CR, and he downs whiskey to recover.

Granted, I give you the stairwell fight, but he doesn't collapse after the Loony Tunes antics of the Miami Airport chase due to exhaustion. He's knocked to the ground by Miami PD.

Being self-absorbed, avoiding uppers, downers, rich meals, and being a health/fitness nut....I just don't really see that correlating to being a metro-sexual as none of those things are masculine or feminine leaning. Again, maybe....maybe if someone was overly flamboyant about these things..but Craig's Bond isn't.

Metrosexuality is a feminised masculinity.

Brosnan never smoked a cigar until his 4th film and Moore only smoked cigars in his first 2. Why criticize Craig when the other Bond's are just as guilty of not being as indulgent as Fleming's Bond.

It's a matter of degree.

[Iroquois]

It's not like the man has a clean lifestyle in the new films, he's over-indulgent as ever, watch the plane scene in QOS.

He drank 7 or so Vodka Martinis on the plane (though we didn't see it). That's an exception, not the rule.

Fitness was very important to Fleming's Bond, I remember in OHMSS, Bond worries whether his muscles can cope with a quick getaway from Blofeld's HQ via skis, and begins working on them.

Those are not the thoughts of man with a perfect level of physical fitness, as with Craig. And remember, Bond is breathless and distraught at the end of the chase.

He also collapses after the Miami Airport sequence, and is physically and mentally distraught after the stairwell fight in CR, and he downs whiskey to recover.

Granted, I give you the stairwell fight, but he doesn't collapse after the Loony Tunes antics of the Miami Airport chase due to exhaustion. He's knocked to the ground by Miami PD.

No, he climbs out of the truck, his legs give and he collapses. He struggles to his feet and is then knocked down by the Miami PD.

[David Schofield]

Craig does not have the body of someone who lifts weights while watching himself in the mirror.

Come on, he's luv'in Solange - and Demetrios - luv 'im come'in out the water in them electric blue La Perlas.

Why? 'cos he's watched himself in the mirror holding the curl and feeling the burn so many times.

[Iroquois]

EDIT: Schofield edited his post as I replied to it, rendering this reply obsolete.

Edited by Iroquois, 21 April 2011 - 05:22 PM.

[David Schofield]

EDIT: Schofield edited his post as I replied to it, rendering this reply obsolete.

Do me a favour. Call me "David" or "David Schofield".

Where I come from surnames are only used in public (private) schools.

I don't know what standards of etiquette are where you're from, but David Schofield is my real name, okay?

And I deleted the post because while I recall Craig opening the door and falling out, I didn't feel sufficiently motivated by it as whether it was or wasn't exhaustion that caused him to fall or the fact that he was a clumsy to really want to debate it.

[Iroquois]

EDIT: Schofield edited his post as I replied to it, rendering this reply obsolete.

Do me a favour. Call me "David" or "David Schofield".

Where I come from surnames are only used in public (private) schools.

I don't know what standards of etiquette are where you're from, but David Schofield in my real name, okay?

And I deleted the post because while I recall Craig opening the door and falling out, I didn't feel sufficiently motivated by it as whether it was or wasn't exhaustion that caused him to fall or the fact that he was a clumsy to really want to debate it.

That's fine, I wasn't insulting you with my post, so no need to take it personally and bring up my background (although for the record, the etiquette is rather low where I come from) as I didn't even notice I only used the surname. I only mentioned the deletion of your post just to justify the presence of mine, and I did so out of respect of the fact that you'd decided to remove that section of your post.

[David Schofield]

EDIT: Schofield edited his post as I replied to it, rendering this reply obsolete.

Do me a favour. Call me "David" or "David Schofield".

Where I come from surnames are only used in public (private) schools.

I don't know what standards of etiquette are where you're from, but David Schofield in my real name, okay?

And I deleted the post because while I recall Craig opening the door and falling out, I didn't feel sufficiently motivated by it as whether it was or wasn't exhaustion that caused him to fall or the fact that he was a clumsy to really want to debate it.

That's fine, I wasn't insulting you with my post, so no need to take it personally and bring up my background (although for the record, the etiquette is rather low where I come from) as I didn't even notice I only used the surname. I only mentioned the deletion of your post just to justify the presence of mine, and I did so out of respect of the fact that you'd decided to remove that section of your post.

No problem.

[Loomis]

Do we want to see Bond ducking out into the alley behind some ritzy casino to get his fix? Thats more the reality of it these days.

Perfectly put. No one ever asks where the Bond of 2011 would be able to do his smoking.

I too am a smoker, and I'd agree that it's about as uncool as you can get. The call in fandom for Bond to start smoking onscreen again always baffles me. The celluloid Bond has been a nonsmoker for decades. Neither Moore nor Brosnan was ever seen with a cigarette, and even back in the 1960s 007 hardly ever lit up (Connery doesn't smoke at all in DIAMONDS ARE FOREVER, if I'm not mistaken, and even in his other films comes across as a social smoker who can take it or leave it).

Dalton smoked cigarettes, and both Moore and Brosnan smoked cigars. It's only been 3 films since the last time we Bond light up.

I should have been more clear. I was referring only to cigarettes (as I believe proponents of a smoking celluloid Bond also tend to do - after all, Fleming's Bond was known for his industrial scale consumption of cigarettes, not cigars).

But even when one factors in the very occasional cigar, both Moore's and Brosnan's Bonds were essentially nonsmokers.

[The Shark]

Do we want to see Bond ducking out into the alley behind some ritzy casino to get his fix? Thats more the reality of it these days.

Perfectly put. No one ever asks where the Bond of 2011 would be able to do his smoking.

I too am a smoker, and I'd agree that it's about as uncool as you can get. The call in fandom for Bond to start smoking onscreen again always baffles me. The celluloid Bond has been a nonsmoker for decades. Neither Moore nor Brosnan was ever seen with a cigarette, and even back in the 1960s 007 hardly ever lit up (Connery doesn't smoke at all in DIAMONDS ARE FOREVER, if I'm not mistaken, and even in his other films comes across as a social smoker who can take it or leave it).

Dalton smoked cigarettes, and both Moore and Brosnan smoked cigars. It's only been 3 films since the last time we Bond light up.

I should have been more clear. I was referring only to cigarettes (as I believe proponents of a smoking celluloid Bond also tend to do - after all, Fleming's Bond was known for his industrial scale consumption of cigarettes, not cigars).

I say, cigars are better than nothing. It might not exactly be Fleming, but it's a good closer to his creation than painting him as a non-smoking health nut.

But even when one factors in the very occasional cigar, both Moore's and Brosnan's Bonds were essentially nonsmokers.

Occasional smokers. You can't be a non-smoker and smoke occasionally.

[jaguar007]

Bond being fit and not smoking is hardly the furthest removed the cinematic Bond has ever been from his literary origins.

[The Shark]

In terms of his lifestyle, it is.

[jaguar007]

I disagree. Craig Bond's lifestyle does not show Bond that much different than any other actor to portray him. He may not smoke (yet), but he does eat and drink. I don't think Craig's fit physique is any further removed from Bond than Connery's slightly flabby appearance in DAF, just in the other direction. In the books Bond also went through phases of training for certain missions, so I don't see why it would be so unbelievable that Bond would be in top shape during a certain mission.