772 replies to this topic

[dinovelvet]

Agreed with terminus. Keep the name Quarrel.

Anyone have an idea for a PTS? "Dr. No" is the only Bond film that didn't have a proper one.

Don't have anything so far. Maybe we can use Jamaica as the PTS location and then concentrate most of the main film in and around South Africa.

[dinovelvet]

I think with all the recent suggestions (the rally chase idea, Bond tracking down Honey, the South African location) it might be helpful to have some sort of bare bones bullet point outline to move forward. Could dino or terminus possibly work something up?

Here are some things I put together so far, terminus and others are welcome to add to it.

PTS - TBD, set in Jamaica

Post-credits scene : Strangways, a junior MI6 Agent, is breaking into an office building in Cape Town, South Africa. He accesses a computer and clicks through various files on accounts and records of an abalone fishing business. One file on the screen catches his attention : "DOCTOR NO". (I thought this would be a nice modern nod to the original's use of the "DOCTOR NO" file folder). Before he can click on it, two assassins burst into the room and a shootout ensues. Strangways flees and almost escapes, but a third assassin is waiting for him outside and knocks him out.

MI6 - Bond is frustrated with the lack of progress in pursuing leads on QUANTUM. All information obtained from Yusuf turned out to be mostly useless. Key QUANTUM members have turned up dead, bank accounts have been emptied, it appears as if the organization has gone into hiding. M orders Bond to investigate the death of Strangways, whose corpse recently washed up on a beach outside of Cape Town, looking like he was mauled by some kind of sea creature. "I've always fancied a trip to South Africa", remarks Bond (wink, wink at the dialogue).

Cape Town, South Africa - We need to flesh out this section of the film. Bond should come into contact with DENT, the head of the legitimate abalone business, and will soon discover that Dent is using illegal poaching methods to procure the specimens. The trail will lead him to a mysterious figure known as QUARREL, whom Bond will surprisingly discover to be a woman. Quarrel tries to shake down Bond in a bar, with the help of a Pussfeller-esque brute, but is helped out by none other than Felix Leiter, taking a break from his duties as the CIA's station head of South America.

-The three assassins will target Bond, leading to a car chase in a desert.

-The spider/centipede scene should be recreated somehow.

-Dent will try to assassinate Bond himself, leading to a brutal fight between the two men in Bond's hotel room.

-Bond will encounter Honey Ryder, nude, on a beach! Honey is running a more legal abalone operation, and she explains that abalone have been turning up dead washed up on the shore. Bond finds traces of radiation in the abalone, and together with Quarrel, they target Bouvet Island as a possible source of the contamination. Quarrel is terrified of a 'dragon' that is said to live on the island, but Bond persuades her to go anyway.

-I figured that from that point, we'd essentially follow the original film, with Quarrel being killed, Bond and Honey being caught and having dinner with Dr. No (perhaps with Mr.White as the fourth guest at the table!). No would then put Bond through his deadly pipes challenge, ending in Craig rolling around with a giant squid!

-Final confrontation with Dr.No as the island blows up all around them due to Bond destroying Dr.No's operation.

[terminus]

Perhaps something of a mix between the opening of the novel 'Zero Minus Ten' and the opening of 'Never Say Never Again' with something that, at first, seems like an honest-to-God infiltration mission - but is then revealed to be a training mission just before the titles cut in.

Either that, or somehow pick up from the end of QOS perhaps - shifting the (filmed but cut) infiltration of Guy Haines' country estate, and confrontation with Haines and Mr White, to an estate on the coast of Jamaica.

Perhaps this could be edited so that Mr White, once again, somehow escapes - but leaves Haines to his fate at Bond's hands. Or perhaps Haines takes the cowards way out and commits suicide?

[dinovelvet]

Perhaps something of a mix between the opening of the novel 'Zero Minus Ten' and the opening of 'Never Say Never Again' with something that, at first, seems like an honest-to-God infiltration mission - but is then revealed to be a training mission just before the titles cut in.

Either that, or somehow pick up from the end of QOS perhaps - shifting the (filmed but cut) infiltration of Guy Haines' country estate, and confrontation with Haines and Mr White, to an estate on the coast of Jamaica.

Hmm yes, it could be that after Haines has been outed as an associate of Quantum, he has fled to his private compound in Jamaica (to be filmed at Goldeneye, perhaps? ). Bond is sent after him, but finds Haines already dead, and a hit team waiting for him. Cue the action, as Bond has to fight his way out...

[terminus]

Perhaps something of a mix between the opening of the novel 'Zero Minus Ten' and the opening of 'Never Say Never Again' with something that, at first, seems like an honest-to-God infiltration mission - but is then revealed to be a training mission just before the titles cut in.

Either that, or somehow pick up from the end of QOS perhaps - shifting the (filmed but cut) infiltration of Guy Haines' country estate, and confrontation with Haines and Mr White, to an estate on the coast of Jamaica.

Hmm yes, it could be that after Haines has been outed as an associate of Quantum, he has fled to his private compound in Jamaica (to be filmed at Goldeneye, perhaps? ). Bond is sent after him, but finds Haines already dead, and a hit team waiting for him. Cue the action, as Bond has to fight his way out...

Excellent And yes, filming at GE would be a nice nod of the head - perhaps we could even use the name 'Shamelady' for the estate?

[coco1997]

Great ideas, guys!

How can we modernize the "dragon" idea?

[dinovelvet]

Great ideas, guys!

How can we modernize the "dragon" idea?

I had some ideas that it might be a sort of 'Transformer', like it would be an ordinary truck, but flip a switch and secret panels and devices pop up to shape it into a dragon-like creature. And it would shoot lasers instead of flames, but this is sounding increasingly ridiculous as I'm typing it out...

[coco1997]

I suppose that could work. However, if the idea is thought to be too over the top, the dragon could be dropped entirely.

[tdalton]

I don't think the PTS should in any way tie into QoS or Quantum. I actually think it would be better to introduce a whole new organization or simply recreate SPECTRE than use Quantum, as that organization was featured throughout the majority of the treatments we've done to this point.

I think the PTS should be the death of Strangways at the hands of the assassins. Maybe a bit more dramatic than it was in the original film, but if there needs to be a PTS (I'm not convinced that there even needs to be one), that's a plot point that could be taken care of during that sequence.

[terminus]

I don't think the PTS should in any way tie into QoS or Quantum. I actually think it would be better to introduce a whole new organization or simply recreate SPECTRE than use Quantum, as that organization was featured throughout the majority of the treatments we've done to this point.

I think the PTS should be the death of Strangways at the hands of the assassins. Maybe a bit more dramatic than it was in the original film, but if there needs to be a PTS (I'm not convinced that there even needs to be one), that's a plot point that could be taken care of during that sequence.

I think that there needs to be a PTS - given that, by this point, it's a given there will be one.

Re: Quantum being used, I think we need to use Quantum as opposed to using SPECTRE or creating a new organisation. As these are a mock 'future' of the franchise, it makes sense to continue - for the moment at least - with Quantum as the opposing organisation.

In that respect, I think that using the unused end for QOS is a neat tie-in to the previous film - as well as furthering the plot development for Quantum in a thoroughly different way to how it was developed in the UB-Craig Era. Given the adaptation nature of this version of the game, the way the organisation is developed will be inherently different to the way that it was there.

So then the death of Strangways could be the first post-title sequence.

[tdalton]

Re: Quantum being used, I think we need to use Quantum as opposed to using SPECTRE or creating a new organisation. As these are a mock 'future' of the franchise, it makes sense to continue - for the moment at least - with Quantum as the opposing organisation.

In that respect, I think that using the unused end for QOS is a neat tie-in to the previous film - as well as furthering the plot development for Quantum in a thoroughly different way to how it was developed in the UB-Craig Era. Given the adaptation nature of this version of the game, the way the organisation is developed will be inherently different to the way that it was there.

I would propose that we do away with Quantum very, very quickly, then. Given how many treatments we've done with them as the lead villains, regardless of how differently they may end up being this time around, they're still, IMO, a very stale organization that we've implemented over and over again.

I would also say that I think the reason that the ending for QoS was dropped should be the reason that it's not used here. Forster supposedly dropped it so that EON wouldn't be forced into tying up those loose ends in the next film and could instead start fresh with a new storyline. I didn't think it was a particularly strong idea for a film ending anyway, and I really don't think it would work as a PTS either.

[terminus]

Hmmm. I sort of see your point on the pretitle sequence suggestion - but I don't think that we shouldn't use it because it wasn't used, nor for the reasons it wasn't used, in Quantum of Solace. I believe it was also dropped because it ruined the dramatic journey that Bond came to the end of in the Russia scene - and that the scene with Haines and Mr White wasn't needed because it would have felt superfluous.

I don't think it ruins any sort of dramatic journey for Bond to use it here, it would remind the audience of what has come before - and then allow us to move onwards. And the fact it wasn't used to avoid forcing a subsequent film 'tying up loose ends' is a bit redundant - given we aren't being 'forced' to use it, it would be getting used because it's a relatively standalone pre-title sequence that, as mentioned, serves multiple functions - introducing Bond and reminding us of what has come before.

[dinovelvet]

I don't think the PTS should in any way tie into QoS or Quantum. I actually think it would be better to introduce a whole new organization or simply recreate SPECTRE than use Quantum, as that organization was featured throughout the majority of the treatments we've done to this point.

I think the PTS should be the death of Strangways at the hands of the assassins. Maybe a bit more dramatic than it was in the original film, but if there needs to be a PTS (I'm not convinced that there even needs to be one), that's a plot point that could be taken care of during that sequence.

I'm in favor of continuing with Quantum for the time being, as it'd be kind of weird to just drop them completely after QOS, and we're going to need a criminal organization to target Bond in the next film, FRWL. So it makes sense to continue with Quantum rather than have to establish an entirely new group. SPECTRE essentially ended after Thunderball anyway, as OHMSS, DAF, and YOLT focused on just Blofeld, so we won't have to keep using them over and over again.

[coco1997]

I imagine we would build up to bringing back SPECTRE and Blofeld, but since Quantum is essentially a reimagined SPECTRE, wouldn't it make sense to just keep going with Quantum and have Bond take them out once and for all when he kills Blofeld in "YOLT"? If not, it seems like we'd have to create another new evil organization.

EDIT: Dino pretty much made my exact point.

I would propose that we do away with Quantum very, very quickly, then. Given how many treatments we've done with them as the lead villains, regardless of how differently they may end up being this time around, they're still, IMO, a very stale organization that we've implemented over and over again.

I understand your desire to do away with Quantum, but since this is an alternate universe from our other early Craig UBs, it kind of necessitates that we use Quantum again, at least for the first couple films.

[dinovelvet]

I imagine we would build up to bringing back SPECTRE and Blofeld, but since Quantum is essentially a reimagined SPECTRE, wouldn't it make sense to just keep going with Quantum and have Bond take them out once and for all when he kills Blofeld in "YOLT"? If not, it seems like we'd have to create another new evil organization.

EDIT: Dino pretty much made my exact point.

Although you've brought up an interesting idea of having a new group called SPECTRE emerge, perhaps with a brash upstart young man named Blofeld killing off the Quantum higher-ups so he can take over the group?

[terminus]

I imagine we would build up to bringing back SPECTRE and Blofeld, but since Quantum is essentially a reimagined SPECTRE, wouldn't it make sense to just keep going with Quantum and have Bond take them out once and for all when he kills Blofeld in "YOLT"? If not, it seems like we'd have to create another new evil organization.

EDIT: Dino pretty much made my exact point.

Although you've brought up an interesting idea of having a new group called SPECTRE emerge, perhaps with a brash upstart young man named Blofeld killing off the Quantum higher-ups so he can take over the group?

One idea that I pondered using if I followed up on TTW would be that Blofeld be a comparatively minor member of Quantum, the brash young upstart that you've hypothesised (I noted down Rupert Penry Jones as a candidate to play him). As the movies went on, there would be a core group of Quantum members unhappy with the direction that Quantum has taken - and would overthrow the old leadership, Blofeld would find himself in charge of the revitalised organisation which would be more akin to SPECTRE (though wouldn't necessarily go by that name).

Perhaps this could be done c. The Spy Who Loved Me remake, given one of the original ideas for the film featured something similar happening in SPECTRE?

[coco1997]

Who would be the villain in "OHMSS" and "YOLT", then?

[dinovelvet]

I imagine we would build up to bringing back SPECTRE and Blofeld, but since Quantum is essentially a reimagined SPECTRE, wouldn't it make sense to just keep going with Quantum and have Bond take them out once and for all when he kills Blofeld in "YOLT"? If not, it seems like we'd have to create another new evil organization.

EDIT: Dino pretty much made my exact point.

Although you've brought up an interesting idea of having a new group called SPECTRE emerge, perhaps with a brash upstart young man named Blofeld killing off the Quantum higher-ups so he can take over the group?

One idea that I pondered using if I followed up on TTW would be that Blofeld be a comparatively minor member of Quantum, the brash young upstart that you've hypothesised (I noted down Rupert Penry Jones as a candidate to play him). As the movies went on, there would be a core group of Quantum members unhappy with the direction that Quantum has taken - and would overthrow the old leadership, Blofeld would find himself in charge of the revitalised organisation which would be more akin to SPECTRE (though wouldn't necessarily go by that name).

Perhaps this could be done c. The Spy Who Loved Me remake, given one of the original ideas for the film featured something similar happening in SPECTRE?

I think this is definitely something to consider for future films. Perhaps after the major blunder Quantum makes in FRWL, this Blofeld character overthrows the leadership and takes them in a new direction (maybe his first order of business is to raise funds, by teaming up with a certain gold enthusiast to rob Fort Knox?)

[terminus]

Coco1997, wasn't there some discussion about putting YOLT/OHMSS in the correct order, so OHMSS would come first with YOLT coming next?

Re: the Blofeld Rebellion occuring as a direct result of FRWL. I could see that happening - the overthrow would then need to be the first thing we see in Goldfinger (the pretitle sequence, perhaps, certainly it would need to be before Bond meets Goldfinger).

Unless we actually make the move to introduce Blofeld in Doctor No as a member of Quantum, have him reappear in the following movie being a vocal opponent to the plan that Quantum undertake and have the final scene in FRWL be the overthrowing of the old leadership after the operation - this would allow there to be some time between the two films in order for Blofeld to cement his position.

[dinovelvet]

Wasn't there some discussion about putting YOLT/OHMSS in the correct order, so OHMSS would come first with YOLT coming next?

Yes, that's the plan, to adapt those two properly this time round.

[tdalton]

[edit]

Edited by tdalton, 11 January 2011 - 08:34 PM.

[dinovelvet]

EDIT: In an effort to put the thread I think I've somewhat derailed back on track, how does the new proforma that's been posted work? Are we waiting for more people to take turns before a second round or are we free to add something in? I haven't been online as much as I'd like to have been the last two days to work on this, so I'm a bit out of the loop as to how we're working this.

We're not really doing turns or rounds, so feel free to add anything you've come up with, we could still use some new ideas, especially for the first half of the film.

[coco1997]

Maybe Blofeld, rather than Mr. White, can be at the dinner table with Dr. No on Bouvet Island and somehow escapes when the hits the fan.

And I just had a radical idea: Is there a way to replace Dent's character with Mr. White? Maybe we have him disappear off the map after the events of "QOS" only to resurface as the head of a seemingly legitimate abalone business. Then, Bond kills him in his hotel room in South Africa, finally bringing closure to the character. I only suggest that as it seems an efficient and satisfying way of doing away with White's character if the idea is to get rid of Quantum and tie up the loose threads of the last two films as quickly as possible.

[dinovelvet]

Maybe Blofeld, rather than Mr. White, can be at the dinner table with Dr. No on Bouvet Island and somehow escapes when the hits the fan.

And I just had a radical idea: Is there a way to replace Dent's character with Mr. White? Maybe we have him disappear off the map after the events of "QOS" only to resurface as the head of a seemingly legitimate abalone business. Then, Bond kills him in his hotel room in South Africa, finally bringing closure to the character. I only suggest that as it seems an efficient and satisfying way of doing away with White's character if the idea is to get rid of Quantum and tie up the loose threads of the last two films as quickly as possible.

I was considering using White as the equivalent of Kronsteen for the FRWL remake; because of his past dealings with Bond and MI6, he would be the one to concoct the plan to kill Bond.

[coco1997]

That's a really good idea. I should clarify that my previous suggestion isn't an ideal scenario; it was just a way to do away with White. But I do love the image of he, Blofeld and No sharing dinner together at the same table as Bond. Plus, we wouldn't get to use your fantastic casting idea for Dent.

I know tdalton doesn't like the idea of using the cut "QOS" ending as the PTS for "DR. NO", but I feel doing something akin to what's been proposed--Bond tracks down Guy Haines to Goldeneye/Shamelady in Jamaica, kills him/finds him dead, etc.--is necessary if the plan is to dispose of Quantum right away. If not in the PTS, then we still have Haines and White lingering for however long still. As I understand it, the idea is to have Blofeld overthrow the higher ups of Quantum after the events of "FRWL" so they'd only be around for two of our imaginary films. Kill off Haines in this PTS, have White survive until the last scene with Blofeld in "FRWL" at which point he would be executed by Blofeld and Krebb. Then we're free to do whatever we want with the "new" Quantum/SPECTRE from there on out.

[terminus]

So, taking dino's last treatment - here's a few ideas, using his treatment and implementing some of my own ideas - feel free to use or toss away as much as you'd like:


Jamaica Bond arrives in Jamaica where he breaks into Guy Haines' estate. Haines has fled the UK after being exposed as an operative of Quantum - but when Bond breaks into the mans study, he finds him dead. Bond must escape from the estate.

TITLES

South Africa Strangways, the Head of Station for South Africa, is set to meet a contact at a bar in South Africa about an apparantly legitimate abalone fishing business, DentTech - but before he can meet the contact, he is shot at by two gunmen. A shootout ensues in the bar, Strangways flees and almost escapes, but a third gunman is waiting outside and knocks him out. It is established by a caption that we are now SIX MONTHS after the events depicted in the title sequence.

MI6 Bond is frustrated with the lack of progress in pursuing leads on Quantum: Yusef provided virtually no useful information and all of the agents photographed in Brigenz have turned up dead, their bank accounts emptied and decimated. The enemy organising is clearing house. M orders Bond to investigate the death of Strangways, whose corpse has washed up on a beach outside of Cape Town, looking like it has been mauled by some kind of sea creature.

South Africa Bond examines Dent's corpse, recovers a wifi device disguised as a tooth - which explains his investigation into DentTech and that he had a contact, whose identity is unrevealed. Bond arranges a meeting with Dent, undercover as a marine scientist, and doesn't like the men - he breaks into the office after dark and discovers evidence that Dent is using illegal poaching methods to procure his abalone specimens.

He is discovered, by the three men who killed Strangways, and tries to flee through the city - at first on foot and then in a car. He almost gets cornered by the three men, but is hauled into a car by two South Africans - a brutish man called Pussfeller and a stunning woman called Quarrel. Quarrel doesn't trust Bond - but she and Pussfeller take him to a safehouse where Quarrel shakes him down.

It turns out that Quarrel is CIA - asked to help him out by Felix Leiter, the CIA Section Chief for South America. Pussfeller runs the bar that Strangways was attacked in and he confirms that the three who attacked Strangways were the three who attacked Bond.

Pussfeller and Quarrel help Bond discover (this can include the centipede scene, the chase in the scrub [though it might need to be resettled to the veldt] and Dent's death in the hotel room) that Strangways' contact was a black market shell dealer called Honeychile Ryder. Bond tracks Honey down to a beach, she appears nude - albeit tastefully. She explains that abalone have been turning up dead, washed up on the shore. Bond takes a sample of the abalone and uses a mobile laboratory in a suitcase to find that it is saturated with traces of radiation.

From current charts and weather forecasts, Bond, Quarrel and Honey target Bouvet Island as a possible source of the contamination. Quarrel is superstitious about the island (either because she is terrified of the dragon or for another reason) but Bond persuades her to go with them anyway.

- at this point, dino has suggested that the film, more or less, seques into the original with the arrival at the island and the meeting with Doctor No.

[coco1997]

Great job, terminus! This really gives us a solid foundation with which to flesh things out. The only thing I'd suggest to add/change is the rally car chase idea CT had for earlier in the film.

[Mr. Blofeld]

I don't want an independent female character to be superstitious of a "dragon"; that wouldn't fly, today.

I know! Have her be trying to get info on No's hideaway with her lover; they're caught, and the lover is blowtorched to death. That gives Quarrel motivation and reason to fear the "dragon". We could have it as the PTS, the first scene after the titles, or the second.

[terminus]

Great job, terminus! This really gives us a solid foundation with which to flesh things out. The only thing I'd suggest to add/change is the rally car chase idea CT had for earlier in the film.

I thought that there could be a more traditional car chase early on at the point I've suggested - through the streets of Capetown. I imagined that the rally car chase could come later, after Bond has met Quarrel and is working to track down the contact - it could come after he has tracked Dent down to his families farm estate in the veldt and killed him, the rally car chase would then become the escape from the farm estate.

Two different car chases in two different landscapes, with two different settings.

I don't want an independent female character to be superstitious of a "dragon"; that wouldn't fly, today.

I know! Have her be trying to get info on No's hideaway with her lover; they're caught, and the lover is blowtorched to death. That gives Quarrel motivation and reason to fear the "dragon". We could have it as the PTS, the first scene after the titles, or the second.

I wouldn't say it's wrong for a modern female character to be superstitious - to do that is to suggest that all independant female characters ought to be Amazonian warriors. I didn't mean to definitely use the 'dragon' as the reason that she doesn't want to go to the island - maybe something more akin to a 'people who go there, they don't come back'.

If she's got a tie to the location with the blowtorched boyfriend/girlfriend, then that would connect her to the island too soon - and would make the later 'connecting the dots of the irradiated abalone to the island' a smidgeon redundant. Perhaps if she's superstitious of the island, because 'people who go there, they don't come back - alive' - maybe that could be personalised because one of the people who didn't come back alive was a boyfriend/girlfriend/family member.

Perhaps they, like Strangways, washed up on the shore outside of Capetown, with the same injuries that Strangways suffered. It would be one further clue - 'Whatever killed your brother, also killed my friend -".

In that respect, perhaps we could write Strangways into the pre-title sequence, working with Bond on the infiltration of the Haines Estate in Jamaica. Sort of like the way that the chap was working with Bond in Madagascar at the start of Casino Royale. It would give Bond a bit more of a personal oomph through the movie - the same sort of push that he got from 'avenging' Felix's injuries and Della's death in License to Kill.

Actually - reading that all back, I quite like the ideas I've suggested

[dinovelvet]

In that respect, perhaps we could write Strangways into the pre-title sequence, working with Bond on the infiltration of the Haines Estate in Jamaica. Sort of like the way that the chap was working with Bond in Madagascar at the start of Casino Royale. It would give Bond a bit more of a personal oomph through the movie - the same sort of push that he got from 'avenging' Felix's injuries and Della's death in License to Kill.

Actually - reading that all back, I quite like the ideas I've suggested

I'm down with including Strangways on the mission with Bond in the PTS, sort of like Carter in CR (though Strangways is presumably a bit more competent!)

I'm also on board with using "just" South Africa as the central location. We don't need to go globe-trotting if the plot doesn't call for it, so we can scrub the additional location slots I included in the proforma. As it stands, we're now looking at :

Jamaica - London - in and around Cape Town - Bouvet Island

If she's got a tie to the location with the blowtorched boyfriend/girlfriend, then that would connect her to the island too soon - and would make the later 'connecting the dots of the irradiated abalone to the island' a smidgeon redundant. Perhaps if she's superstitious of the island, because 'people who go there, they don't come back - alive' - maybe that could be personalised because one of the people who didn't come back alive was a boyfriend/girlfriend/family member.

Perhaps they, like Strangways, washed up on the shore outside of Capetown, with the same injuries that Strangways suffered. It would be one further clue - 'Whatever killed your brother, also killed my friend -".

Hopefully my hint about Strangways' corpse was picked up by all - I had it in mind that it will later be revealed that Strangways (and other unlucky fishermen) all died at the hands of Dr.No's giant squid.