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CARTE BLANCHE


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#841 zencat

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Posted 12 June 2010 - 07:10 PM

You know, the more I think about it, the more I think his age might actually be right. In reality, I think these guys are damn young. Heck, 28 might even be considered seasoned for an assassin/sniper/commando. It's a new world, baby. James Bond would be a deadly young bastard. It's who I'd want doing my killing.


In reality there is little room for active special forces service beyond 30. It's really not unlike professional sports, the air gets decidedly thinner in the third decade.

Yes, that helps make my point exactly.

Good point about the rank. But maybe he isn't a Commander (yet). Is Craig? Don't think I've heard Craig called "Commander."

#842 Jim

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Posted 12 June 2010 - 07:18 PM

Fairly sure Fleming went to pains to try to assert that Bond wasn't particularly English (although that's a different thing to British) - I'm sure he states this more than once and I think he has the observation coming directly from Bond. There's not much Bond does that I would describe as definitvely British - which is probably why he has such mass appeal. Also sure that Fleming is on record as trying to avoid the "Perigrine Carruthers" concept. The name's nicked from an American, after all. He can slip into an adventure (and into a culture) reasonably quickly without standing back and noting unusual things about the funny Americans for the austerity Britain reader - although that is the role of the narrator to note these in passing. The narrator is definitively British. Even Vivienne Michel had to have spent a long time in Britain.

Trouble now is that everywhere is unexotic, in the sense that practically everywhere was back in the day. Does Mr Deaver possess that eye for presenting the mundane of a country as something unusual to the reader alien to it?

Does anyone?

Anyway - was at the Trooping of the Colour earlier today and it struck me - late-twenties, "maidservants", handsome, military background, O.E. - NuBond gets to be Prince William.

#843 Trident

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Posted 12 June 2010 - 07:23 PM

Anyway - was at the Trooping of the Colour earlier today and it struck me - late-twenties, "maidservants", handsome, military background, O.E. - NuBond gets to be Prince William.


LOOOL! hope he doesn't read this, he'd want to be cast for the adaption...

#844 David Schofield

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Posted 12 June 2010 - 07:42 PM

Anyway - was at the Trooping of the Colour earlier today and it struck me - late-twenties, "maidservants", handsome, military background, O.E. - NuBond gets to be Prince William.


He's the one who knows who is real dad is, isn't he?

#845 Loomis

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Posted 12 June 2010 - 08:16 PM

Trouble now is that everywhere is unexotic, in the sense that practically everywhere was back in the day.


Not a view I agree with. Any more than I agree with the view that the main reason people pick up James Bond novels is to read action scenes.

#846 Loomis

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Posted 12 June 2010 - 08:23 PM

How, exactly, would Bond's having an Eastern domestic mean or imply that Deaver (or anyone else) thought that "the majority" of such workers were of that ethnicity?


In and of itself, it wouldn't, but Deaver has gone on record as saying that there are "many" Indian "maidservants" in Britain (see a post by Doctor Shatterhand on page 18 of this thread).

Was Bond's driving a Bentley a statement to the effect that most Brits did so?


No, but then Fleming never claimed that many Brits drove Bentleys.

Sorry, but I don't understand why 007, of all people, has got to be "typical".


No one's saying he has to be typical. And, again, no one's complaining about the character being "Eastern". I don't care whether she is Indian, Pakistani or Dutch. It's just that if Deaver thinks (as he apparently does) that Britain is awash with domestic helpers from Pakistan and India, when in actuality such people are much more likely to be from eastern Europe or the Philippines, then it causes alarm bells to ring about the quality of his research and whether he has a good grasp of modern Britain.

#847 K1Bond007

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Posted 12 June 2010 - 09:19 PM

You know, the more I think about it, the more I think his age might actually be right. In reality, I think these guys are damn young. Heck, 28 might even be considered seasoned for an assassin/sniper/commando. It's a new world, baby. James Bond would be a deadly young bastard. It's who I'd want doing my killing.


In reality there is little room for active special forces service beyond 30. It's really not unlike professional sports, the air gets decidedly thinner in the third decade.

Yes, that helps make my point exactly.

Good point about the rank. But maybe he isn't a Commander (yet). Is Craig? Don't think I've heard Craig called "Commander."


The Casino Royale background profile says he is, but that doesn't mean it's official.

#848 terminus

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Posted 12 June 2010 - 09:23 PM

It's a possibility that he could have been recruited as a Lieutenant and promoted internally once he started work for MI6?

#849 Loomis

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Posted 12 June 2010 - 09:39 PM

I wonder whether the book will include a reference to "the oil spill caused by the English company British Petroleum"? :)


James Bond headed into the London Underground Station at Sloane Square, not far from the Chelsea apartment he shared. He was pleased to use public transport these days, rather than accept the offer of the Company Car from his employees.

Suddenly, he thought about the oil spill caused by the English company British Petroelum and suddely felt a sense of guilt at being part English.

He thought of Tony Hayward, the company's Chief Executive Office. He wasn't like CEO's is the United States - he'd seemed too full of self-interest - and didn't understand the feelings of the American people, considered James Bond.

President Barrack Obama certainly did. Bond admired President Obama greatly. (Suddenly though he had a 50s flashback - was there something wrong; why did he suddenly feel like calling the US President a "microphone head"?).

And he cast his mind back less than twelve months. And the chants of those soccer fans on that Saturday night.

"We don't give a B) about the wildlife in the Gulf". The chants rang through his head as he remembered the eighth goal slipped past the American goaltender, and the vulgar gesture of the scorer toward his shirt badge, the American fans and then the English.

Yes, at times James Bond felt ashamed to be English. Even half English. Indeed, there was so much about him that he even wondered if he were English in anyway at all.

:)


Bond loved his country, although he wasn't blind to its faults. For instance, he was ashamed of England's continued occupation of Ireland and the fact that - unlike welcoming countries like the United States - England did not accept refugees and asylum seekers. He often wished that London wasn't just full of white faces. On a more personal level, he also detested the way all of London would grind to a halt for a couple of hours every day so that everybody could enjoy the custom of afternoon tea. Bond hated tea. He liked to call a cup of tea a "cup of mud". (Ha! That's a good one for the fanboys, Jeff! - Ed.)

Still, at least this meant that there was little traffic on the streets when he drove to Heathrow Airport to meet Felix Leiter. Without the usual gridlock, Bond was able to make the journey from central London to Heathrow in about ten minutes.

Felix Leiter turned out to be a tall, muscular Texan in his mid-twenties. Bond thought privately that this was pretty old to still be a relatively junior CIA agent - at Leiter's advanced age, surely he ought to be a section chief already, at least. Still, Bond assumed that the CIA was a more demanding employer than MI6 and it was more difficult to get promoted quickly. After all, MI6's only responsibility was to keep England safe, whereas the CIA had the duty of safeguarding the freedom of the entire world!

Unlike most English people, Leiter looked well-fed and healthy. "By Jove!" Bond said as he greeted the American. "What on earth do they put in the water on your side of the pond?"

"Can it, limey faggot," Leiter growled. "Just put my bags in the trunk and take me to M." (Jeff, how about adding "Fetch my shoes"? That'd be another good in-joke for the Bond fans - don't ask. - Ed.)

Minutes later, Bond and Leiter stood before M's desk. M filled his pipe and glowered at them with his damnably clear blue-gray-gunmetal eyes.

"Sir," Bond began, "Mr Leiter here has been sent by the CIA to investigate the British Petroleum oil spillage. Washington thinks it may have been a deliberate act of terrorism."

M grunted. England had a big problem with Christian terrorists who liked to blow things up, but this was the first he'd heard of terrorist involvement in the oil spill. "I wonder whether Washington has its facts straight," he remarked.

"Hey, listen, jerk," Leiter said. "We saved your :tdown: in World War II, so you better get with the program, and by the way if so much as a wisp of that tobacco smoke comes near my face I'm gonna sue you into the middle of next week, and it don't look to me like you can afford a two hundred million dollar settlement, old man, so listen up: I'm commandeering this building and everything in it, as well as all your people worldwide, and then Bond and I are gonna go kick some :tdown:, capiche?"

M was confused. He didn't know what Leiter meant when he threatened to sue him. English people didn't sue each other. If they had a problem, they tended to either discuss it over a cup of tea or fight a duel. Still, he was in no doubt that Leiter was a man to be reckoned with, and he knew who was boss.

"I do most humbly apologize," M said to Leiter. "Bond, fetch this gentleman a----" He paused and regarded Leiter with a puzzled frown. "What is it that you Americans drink? Milk shakes?"

Leiter snorted at the old man's ignorance of American culture. He turned to Bond, who was gazing at him adoringly. "Come on, Bond," Leiter said. "You and I have got a world to save."

#850 Jack Spang

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Posted 12 June 2010 - 09:59 PM

I have not read Deaver so can someone explain to me (and others) what this "ticking clock" trademark of his, is about?

Is it something along the lines of "Bond you have 48 hours to complete your mission"? Then each chapter heading shows the time ticking down?

If so would i be right in assuming P-X will be a very fast paced novel?

Personally i prefer a more leisurely pace such as in DR and LALD. Characterisation, location and atmosphere are better when the pace isn't too fast.



Yeah, that's exactly what I want. Still, you can't win em all. Maybe the second book will reflect our desries.

#851 Santa

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Posted 12 June 2010 - 10:02 PM

I've just finished reading my first Deaver book, The Sleeping Doll, and it was B). I've started another one and so far it's so bland I can't even remember the title (it's a Lincoln Rhyme book).


I was pondering this book for the next book in the Deaver Reading Club so it will be interesting to get your feedback on it when we move on from Garden of Beasts to it at the end of July.

Ugh, I wouldn't. It's proper airport fare - be sure to turn off your brain before reading. Something I've noticed in both the books now that's starting to wind me up a bit is the amount of continuity errors. Does no-one check this stuff anymore? I've checked the title of the one I'm reading now, it's called The Coffin Dancer. Meh. These books have no soul, not even a spark of personality. They could have been written by a dozen other crime thriller authors, I can find no trace of the author's particular 'voice', if that makes any sense. Very disappointing. He might be writing Bond for love of the character but he certainly churned these two out for the paycheck rather than the passion.


How, exactly, would Bond's having an Eastern domestic mean or imply that Deaver (or anyone else) thought that "the majority" of such workers were of that ethnicity?


In and of itself, it wouldn't, but Deaver has gone on record as saying that there are "many" Indian "maidservants" in Britain (see a post by Doctor Shatterhand on page 18 of this thread).

Was Bond's driving a Bentley a statement to the effect that most Brits did so?


No, but then Fleming never claimed that many Brits drove Bentleys.

Sorry, but I don't understand why 007, of all people, has got to be "typical".


No one's saying he has to be typical. And, again, no one's complaining about the character being "Eastern". I don't care whether she is Indian, Pakistani or Dutch. It's just that if Deaver thinks (as he apparently does) that Britain is awash with domestic helpers from Pakistan and India, when in actuality such people are much more likely to be from eastern Europe or the Philippines, then it causes alarm bells to ring about the quality of his research and whether he has a good grasp of modern Britain.

A number of British people on this thread have explained quite clearly the problem with this but people just aren't getting it. It's wrong, just plain wrong. If I were writing the next Bond novel and the setting were somewhere in the U.S. and I turned around and said "I've done thousands of pages of research and I conclude that most domestic help in the U.S.A. is provided by Canadians", I'd look like an idiot. Does that help anyone see what we're trying to say?

#852 Tybre

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Posted 12 June 2010 - 10:08 PM

A number of British people on this thread have explained quite clearly the problem with this but people just aren't getting it. It's wrong, just plain wrong. If I were writing the next Bond novel and the setting were somewhere in the U.S. and I turned around and said "I've done thousands of pages of research and I conclude that most domestic help in the U.S.A. is provided by Canadians", I'd look like an idiot. Does that help anyone see what we're trying to say?


You mean they don't B) Blimey...

#853 Loomis

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Posted 12 June 2010 - 10:13 PM

I've just finished reading my first Deaver book, The Sleeping Doll, and it was B). I've started another one and so far it's so bland I can't even remember the title (it's a Lincoln Rhyme book).


I was pondering this book for the next book in the Deaver Reading Club so it will be interesting to get your feedback on it when we move on from Garden of Beasts to it at the end of July.

Ugh, I wouldn't. It's proper airport fare - be sure to turn off your brain before reading. Something I've noticed in both the books now that's starting to wind me up a bit is the amount of continuity errors. Does no-one check this stuff anymore? I've checked the title of the one I'm reading now, it's called The Coffin Dancer. Meh. These books have no soul, not even a spark of personality. They could have been written by a dozen other crime thriller authors, I can find no trace of the author's particular 'voice', if that makes any sense. Very disappointing. He might be writing Bond for love of the character but he certainly churned these two out for the paycheck rather than the passion.


How, exactly, would Bond's having an Eastern domestic mean or imply that Deaver (or anyone else) thought that "the majority" of such workers were of that ethnicity?


In and of itself, it wouldn't, but Deaver has gone on record as saying that there are "many" Indian "maidservants" in Britain (see a post by Doctor Shatterhand on page 18 of this thread).

Was Bond's driving a Bentley a statement to the effect that most Brits did so?


No, but then Fleming never claimed that many Brits drove Bentleys.

Sorry, but I don't understand why 007, of all people, has got to be "typical".


No one's saying he has to be typical. And, again, no one's complaining about the character being "Eastern". I don't care whether she is Indian, Pakistani or Dutch. It's just that if Deaver thinks (as he apparently does) that Britain is awash with domestic helpers from Pakistan and India, when in actuality such people are much more likely to be from eastern Europe or the Philippines, then it causes alarm bells to ring about the quality of his research and whether he has a good grasp of modern Britain.

A number of British people on this thread have explained quite clearly the problem with this but people just aren't getting it. It's wrong, just plain wrong. If I were writing the next Bond novel and the setting were somewhere in the U.S. and I turned around and said "I've done thousands of pages of research and I conclude that most domestic help in the U.S.A. is provided by Canadians", I'd look like an idiot. Does that help anyone see what we're trying to say?


Probably not. We're obviously just xenophobic Brits who hate the idea of an American writing a James Bond novel. Also, Deaver is undoubtedly right and we're wrong.

I'm sorry to read that Deaver's writing is nothing to get excited about. Can't say I'm surprised, though.

#854 whiteskwirl

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Posted 12 June 2010 - 10:18 PM

A number of British people on this thread have explained quite clearly the problem with this but people just aren't getting it. It's wrong, just plain wrong. If I were writing the next Bond novel and the setting were somewhere in the U.S. and I turned around and said "I've done thousands of pages of research and I conclude that most domestic help in the U.S.A. is provided by Canadians", I'd look like an idiot. Does that help anyone see what we're trying to say?


But Deaver didn't say it like that, or did he? The comment was delivered to us secondhand to begin with. He may not have intended his comment to sound like it did, whatever the exact comment was.

For me, this issue is grasping at straws to find something to criticize. It's knee jerk reaction, I feel, to take one incorrect statement and conflate it to mean that all the research he's done is likely wrong.

Are there any WWII buffs here who have read Garden of Beasts? How did Deaver do with that book?

I can't speak for anyone else, but I understand the argument being made; I just think people are putting too much importance on what could have been and off-hand comment.

#855 zencat

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Posted 12 June 2010 - 10:40 PM

Probably not. We're obviously just xenophobic Brits who hate the idea of an American writing a James Bond novel. Also, Deaver is undoubtedly right and we're wrong.

I'm sorry to read that Deaver's writing is nothing to get excited about. Can't say I'm surprised, though.

Jeeze, this thread has taken an ugly turn. Even I'm starting to feel bummed out.

Some days fandom is the worst place to be a fan. B)

#856 Loomis

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Posted 12 June 2010 - 10:49 PM

Probably not. We're obviously just xenophobic Brits who hate the idea of an American writing a James Bond novel. Also, Deaver is undoubtedly right and we're wrong.

I'm sorry to read that Deaver's writing is nothing to get excited about. Can't say I'm surprised, though.

Jeeze, this thread has taken an ugly turn. Even I'm starting to feel bummed out.

Some days fandom is the worst place to be a fan. :)


:)

Well, I apologise for bringing anyone down.

You know what us Bond fans are like - we enjoy a good grumble. B)

It's nothing personal (and I seriously doubt that Deaver will ever read this thread).

Shoot me a PM if there's anything I've written you'd like me to delete, if you think I've overstepped the mark. :tdown:

As I've said all the way along, I'm looking forward to PROJECT X, but I don't think that precludes the poking of a little fun. On reflection, though, I feel that my pop at Deaver's penmanship (never having read his work) was cheap, and so I apologise for that (and to you, Mr D, if you are indeed reading this thread). :tdown:

#857 zencat

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Posted 12 June 2010 - 10:55 PM

Nah, it's fine. It's just the way of fandom. Intense feelings, hopes and fears, good and bad.

#858 Matt_13

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Posted 12 June 2010 - 11:08 PM

Deaver is in fact a very talented author. Garden of Beasts, if you can handle the pacing, is a wonderfully detailed and intriguing read. His style is perfect for this writing assignment, and I have a tremendous amount of confidence in his ability to craft a solid thriller. Nitpicking over minute details that will probably only earn a passing mention in the final product is hardly worth the energy of stirring up a ruckus ( seriously, does it REALLY matter what nationality his maid is?). The fact that he's an American should not at all effect his ability to mimic the Bond character (the job of ALL the continuation authors). He wisely chose to start Bond at a very young age, possibly too young to have attained a proper taste for the high life, something we will hopefully see develop over the course of a few books. As a result, that will likely not be an issue for Project X. He wants to create an exciting story with an action hero named Bond at the center, these details hardly appear in Fleming as is. While I certainly understand some pessimism toward the project (particularly from our cousins across the pond) take a look at what Faulks churned out. He certainly wasn't from the states, and his effort was hardly anything to write home about. What this whole project will come down to at the end of the day is the story. Faulks, as talented an author as he may be, had an atrocious story, one he seemed to put little thought into. This lack of effort in crafting an acceptable plot reflects in the final product. This goes for any author: if the premise of your work is solid, chances are acceptable prose will follow. Give the poor guy a chance for God's sake. He's just some dude writing a book about another dude. Let it go. Or at least wait until an extract (warning bells started ringing when DMC's were released, and rightfully so). Oh well, what do I know?

#859 terminus

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Posted 12 June 2010 - 11:09 PM

On reflection, though, I feel that my pop at Deaver's penmanship (never having read his work) was cheap,


I did enjoy the scene, Loomis. Much like I enjoyed the scenes posted earlier that poked fun at the idea of bringing Bond up to the present day.

#860 Righty007

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Posted 12 June 2010 - 11:18 PM

I can't believe some people are so hung up on the maid comment.

Deaver said absolutely nothing about the Indian/Pakistani maid in Doctor Shatterhand's video interview. It was one of the text headlines that Shatterhand put in the video so we're relying on secondhand information. Nobody but Shatterhand knows how or what exactly Deaver said about the maid.

Let's not obsess over something this trivial until we hear it come out of Deaver's mouth or until we read Project X. I recall Dr. Shatterhand reporting that Henry Cavill and Pierce Brosnan would both play Bond in Casino Royale so let's not freak out just yet.

On reflection, though, I feel that my pop at Deaver's penmanship (never having read his work) was cheap,


I did enjoy the scene, Loomis. Much like I enjoyed the scenes posted earlier that poked fun at the idea of bringing Bond up to the present day.

I was a little offended that Loomis made Leiter out to be a total prick. :tdown:

B)

#861 zencat

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Posted 12 June 2010 - 11:40 PM

One thing we should all be celebrating, and why I think we should cut Deaver some slack, or at least give him the benefit of the doubt, is this guy is clearly putting major WORK into this. Seven months on a 190 page outline, thousands of pages of research...nothing is requiring him to do this much work. We all know Faulks didn't put this kind of effort into DMC (not close).

And it's not like JD has to sweat it this much. This book is not make or break for him. He has a huge career and his own franchise outside of Bond. He could just dash it off, Faulks-style, or put a good 10 months into it -- but nothing that will keep him too long from his other projects. But he's not. He's putting a huge effort into this because he wants to deliver a great James Bond book. He's treating Bond with respect. That gets my respect. I'm also a believer that hard work like this pays off.

#862 Loomis

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Posted 12 June 2010 - 11:59 PM

I was a little offended that Loomis made Leiter out to be a total prick. :)

B)


:tdown:

I was in two minds about putting that post up, because I was worried that it might be taken as anti-American, but I'm glad to see that people are taking it in the jokey spirit it was intended in. It was meant to poke fun at the obviously ludicrous idea of a Bond novel by an American writer whose research was so poor he thought that London was a city of fog and people in bowler hats carrying umbrellas and rolled-up copies of The Times. Obviously Deaver is much smarter than that. :) Although I'm sticking to my guns re: the "Indian maidservant" question. :tdown:

He's putting a huge effort into this because he wants to deliver a great James Bond book. He's treating Bond with respect.


Well, he's obviously a huge Bond fan. And it's very encouraging to read his intro to CASINO ROYALE (which was the first thing I did when I learned that Deaver was the new continuation author), which gives an interesting insight into how he views Bond and Fleming.

Also, Deaver must be very good at what he does to be where he is. You don't get to sell millions of copies of fat paperbacks and have them adapted by Hollywood for nothing.

I imagine that Deaver is by far the most commercially successful novelist to take on Bond.

#863 zencat

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Posted 13 June 2010 - 12:19 AM

Well, he's obviously a huge Bond fan. And it's very encouraging to read his intro to CASINO ROYALE (which was the first thing I did when I learned that Deaver was the new continuation author), which gives an interesting insight into how he views Bond and Fleming.

Yes, that intro does give great insight, and is very encouraging.

(Just occurred to me this is what I should have him sign. Makes for a nice collectible. Even his name is on the cover.)

#864 Righty007

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Posted 13 June 2010 - 12:28 AM

Well, he's obviously a huge Bond fan. And it's very encouraging to read his intro to CASINO ROYALE (which was the first thing I did when I learned that Deaver was the new continuation author), which gives an interesting insight into how he views Bond and Fleming.

Yes, that intro does give great insight, and is very encouraging.

(Just occurred to me this is what I should have him sign. Makes for a nice collectible. Even his name is on the cover.)

Can somebody post his intro here? I've never read it.

#865 whiteskwirl

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Posted 13 June 2010 - 12:39 AM

Well, he's obviously a huge Bond fan. And it's very encouraging to read his intro to CASINO ROYALE (which was the first thing I did when I learned that Deaver was the new continuation author), which gives an interesting insight into how he views Bond and Fleming.

Yes, that intro does give great insight, and is very encouraging.

(Just occurred to me this is what I should have him sign. Makes for a nice collectible. Even his name is on the cover.)

Can somebody post his intro here? I've never read it.


I second that request. It was only printed in the UK paperback, right?

#866 zencat

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Posted 13 June 2010 - 12:40 AM

Sure, here you go, Righty007.

James Bond is a spy. His number is 007. When he goes to the Casino Royale he wins lots of money. When I grow up I want to be a spy like James Bond 007. Oh, he also has a car. But then it gets smashed. The End. - Jeff Deaver. Age 55


#867 Single-O-Seven

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Posted 13 June 2010 - 12:51 AM

Sure, here you go, Righty007.

James Bond is a spy. His number is 007. When he goes to the Casino Royale he wins lots of money. When I grow up I want to be a spy like James Bond 007. Oh, he also has a car. But then it gets smashed. The End. - Jeff Deaver. Age 55


Fantastic! If his novel lives up to this, I'm sold.

#868 Righty007

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Posted 13 June 2010 - 01:17 AM

Sure, here you go, Righty007.

James Bond is a spy. His number is 007. When he goes to the Casino Royale he wins lots of money. When I grow up I want to be a spy like James Bond 007. Oh, he also has a car. But then it gets smashed. The End. - Jeff Deaver. Age 55

I hope this is a sick joke.

#869 zencat

zencat

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Posted 13 June 2010 - 01:22 AM

Obviously. B)

Intro is a good 4 pages. A lot of work to transcribe. Also, not sure posting it would be cool copyrightwise.

#870 Righty007

Righty007

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Posted 13 June 2010 - 01:26 AM

Obviously. :tdown:

Intro is a good 4 pages. A lot of work to transcribe. Also, not sure posting it would be cool copyrightwise.

I guess I'll have to find it on eBay then. Being a Bond fan sure is expensive. B)