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CARTE BLANCHE


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Poll: Carte Blanche

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#661 zencat

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Posted 06 June 2010 - 06:20 PM

Honestly, it's only 'cos I'm genuinely a simple soul and need to know where to put each new book on my shelves.

B)

We just had total psychic moment. I was just thinking about where to put these on the shelf and was about to post that (was even wondering if I should start a thread -- because it is that big a deal to me).

With Bond, I put everything on the shelf according to release date, although I do keep series (YB and Moneypenny) bunched together. I like having CR first and the newest book last, no matter where in the timeline it is set.

With other series (Star Wars, Indiana Jones), I put them on the shelf according to continuity. Fun to look at that way.

#662 DAN LIGHTER

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Posted 06 June 2010 - 06:26 PM

Now that I think about it, I wonder if Project X was originally conceived as a set of novels that would fit into the Fleming 20th century timeline? These are the adventures of James Bond age 30 to whatever he is in CR (33?). Post War, pre Fleming. Then they decided to just move it to present day but hold that mental continuity. It's possible. It's pretty sophisticated to do it this way, even though I have a feeling we're going to have to explain it to people over and over.


Well, as suggested in my above posts, it would satisfy me.

And I'm VERRRRY hard to please when it comes to Bond.. :) :tdown:


I dare say you could pick fault with Ian Fleming himself David :S


Never!

Even though he contradcited his own contunity loads of times and made some fundamental mistakes.

IF = God.

B) :tdown:


Indeed he did. Although I never noticed when I read them in all.

I wonder why so much is expected from continuation novels? Isn't it just fan fiction with clout? It's never going to be Fleming whoever writes it, so what do we expect so much from Project X? Dont we seem to set the bar to high?

Honestly, it's only 'cos I'm genuinely a simple soul and need to know where to put each new book on my shelves.

:)

We just had total psychic moment. I was just thinking about where to put these on the shelf and was about to post that (was even wondering if I should start a thread -- because it is that big a deal to me).

With Bond, I put everything on the shelf according to release date, although I do keep series (YB and Moneypenny) bunched together. I like having CR first and the newest book last, no matter where in the timeline it is set.

With other series (Star Wars, Indiana Jones), I put them on the shelf according to continuity. Fun to look at that way.


Thank goodness it's not just me who does that with Bond books......I had a move around the other day. Brought the signed ones more to the front where I could see them. Young Bond, Fleming, Garden, Benson, then Faulks.

#663 David Schofield

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Posted 06 June 2010 - 06:26 PM

Big bracket around this one, Zen, but

(My shelf runs YB to CR, CR then the MWTGGG (Octopussy is sandwiched between Thunderball and TSWL for continuity reasons B) ) , Amis, Faulks, Wood's two, the Gardners (wth Cold before GE, of course) and then the Benson's, finishing with DAD...) Moneypenny Diaries and the Pearson book on another shelf as they represent a different universe.


You see why the Deaver continuity is SO important?)

Oh, oh, the pain. The sad, horrible pain.

#664 DAN LIGHTER

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Posted 06 June 2010 - 06:29 PM

We really are quite sick and sad arent we. I hear some of us have been aloud to father childern! B) :tdown:

#665 David Schofield

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Posted 06 June 2010 - 06:31 PM

We really are quite sick and sad arent we. I hear some of us have been aloud to father childern! B) :tdown:


In my case, Dan, that's what keeps me sane.

#666 Righty007

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Posted 06 June 2010 - 06:31 PM

I'm OCD too but the answer is quite simple: PROJECT X goes after The Man With The Red Tattoo.

#667 zencat

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Posted 06 June 2010 - 06:40 PM

Big bracket around this one, Zen, but

(My shelf runs YB to CR, CR then the MWTGGG (Octopussy is sandwiched between Thunderball and TSWL for continuity reasons :tdown: ) , Amis, Faulks, Wood's two, the Gardners (wth Cold before GE, of course) and then the Benson's, finishing with DAD...) Moneypenny Diaries and the Pearson book on another shelf as they represent a different universe.

That's not a bad set-up at all. But I would say you could bring Pearson in there (after Faulks, before Wood). Although if we accept Young Bond...yeah, it does kick Pearson into a new universe (but you could always kick YB to its own universe and shelf).

As to Project X...you got big problems, fella. B)

#668 David Schofield

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Posted 06 June 2010 - 06:43 PM

As to Project X...you got big problems, fella. B)


Not as many as Deaver though.

And one or two others that come to mind.

:tdown:

#669 Doctor Shatterhand

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Posted 06 June 2010 - 06:47 PM

Big bracket around this one, Zen, but

(My shelf runs YB to CR, CR then the MWTGGG (Octopussy is sandwiched between Thunderball and TSWL for continuity reasons B) ) , Amis, Faulks, Wood's two, the Gardners (wth Cold before GE, of course) and then the Benson's, finishing with DAD...) Moneypenny Diaries and the Pearson book on another shelf as they represent a different universe.


You see why the Deaver continuity is SO important?)

Oh, oh, the pain. The sad, horrible pain.


As Sean Connery said to Harrison Ford in 'Last Crusade', "Indiana, let it go."

After growing up during the 60s, Bond was the same age as my father. Now, I'm old enough to have fathered Bond.

Life is so unfair and yet I am looking forward to this new series. I congratulate the Ian Fleming estate and thank them for at least continuing the series. After all, they are just fiction for a hot summer day. So try not to make sense of it all and just enjoy the ride.

#670 zencat

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Posted 06 June 2010 - 06:50 PM

There is also a question of pure aesthetics. I have a friend who collects Star Wars bigtime and all his books, graphic novels, etc., are on the shelf in continuity. Cool to examine up close, but it really looks like hell from afar.

See, this really could have been it's own thread.

#671 Napoleon Solo

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Posted 06 June 2010 - 08:15 PM

As Sean Connery said to Harrison Ford in 'Last Crusade', "Indiana, let it go."

After growing up during the 60s, Bond was the same age as my father. Now, I'm old enough to have fathered Bond.

Life is so unfair and yet I am looking forward to this new series. I congratulate the Ian Fleming estate and thank them for at least continuing the series. After all, they are just fiction for a hot summer day. So try not to make sense of it all and just enjoy the ride.


Sounds like good advice. Nice job with the interview, Dr. Shatterhand.

#672 zencat

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Posted 06 June 2010 - 08:17 PM

Yes, well said Doctor S.

#673 Trident

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Posted 06 June 2010 - 08:18 PM

Big bracket around this one, Zen, but

(My shelf runs YB to CR, CR then the MWTGGG (Octopussy is sandwiched between Thunderball and TSWL for continuity reasons B) ) , Amis, Faulks, Wood's two, the Gardners (wth Cold before GE, of course) and then the Benson's, finishing with DAD...) Moneypenny Diaries and the Pearson book on another shelf as they represent a different universe.


You see why the Deaver continuity is SO important?)

Oh, oh, the pain. The sad, horrible pain.


As Sean Connery said to Harrison Ford in 'Last Crusade', "Indiana, let it go."

After growing up during the 60s, Bond was the same age as my father. Now, I'm old enough to have fathered Bond.

Life is so unfair and yet I am looking forward to this new series. I congratulate the Ian Fleming estate and thank them for at least continuing the series. After all, they are just fiction for a hot summer day. So try not to make sense of it all and just enjoy the ride.




AMEN to that! I owe you a drink whenever you happen to hit my town!


And to Zen and David: I can only suggest to get a new shelf. :tdown:

#674 K1Bond007

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Posted 06 June 2010 - 09:46 PM

Big bracket around this one, Zen, but

(My shelf runs YB to CR, CR then the MWTGGG (Octopussy is sandwiched between Thunderball and TSWL for continuity reasons :tdown: ) , Amis, Faulks, Wood's two, the Gardners (wth Cold before GE, of course) and then the Benson's, finishing with DAD...) Moneypenny Diaries and the Pearson book on another shelf as they represent a different universe.


You see why the Deaver continuity is SO important?)

Oh, oh, the pain. The sad, horrible pain.


It's because of this that they looked to rebooting it anyway. Clearly people still want Bond novels, but if you want to publish a current Bond novel, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I liked Benson, but his books were a jumbled mess continuity wise. It made no sense for an upper 30 year old Bond in the late 1990s to be reflecting back on adventures he had when he was an upper 30 year old from the 1960s. You can only drag on the ageless character for so long. Even more confusing Benson threw in some Gardner and the cinematic 007 which just made matters worse. Fun books, sure, but come on. B)

It's not like they can't return to the Fleming timeline or reboot it again 10 years down the road. They can do whatever the hell they want. I'll read it. Worked out well for the cinematic Bond too. Could work here. Wouldn't surprise me if this somehow ties into the films - like a precursor to Casino Royale. Less likely, but still possible. There's that question of IFP and Danjaq. I wonder if that factors.

#675 terminus

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Posted 06 June 2010 - 10:44 PM

Random thought, we've had Bond having a First in Oriental Languages from Cambridge - might it be an idea and a logical change for NuBond to have a First in Arabic (or Middle Eastern Languages)?

#676 Napoleon Solo

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Posted 06 June 2010 - 10:48 PM

It's because of this that they looked to rebooting it anyway. Clearly people still want Bond novels, but if you want to publish a current Bond novel, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I liked Benson, but his books were a jumbled mess continuity wise.
(snip)


Some of this reflects was Glidrose (now Ian Fleming Publications) wanted. When Benson took over, one of the conditions was that the stories be set in the "present day." Authors of any long-running series in any medium face the same problem at one time or another.

To use 2 examples in other media: the U.S. television show Gunsmoke, which ran 20 years, had an odd continuity. It was more or less always 1873 (although even there you can find some deviation) but the characters clearly got older. In the 13th season, Doc says Matt Dillon has been U.S. marshal for 13 years. In the 17th season, Kitty says she first met Matt 17 years earlier, etc., etc.


The Dick Tracy comic strip, which began 79 years ago, is even stranger. In 1981, the strip's 50th anniversary, Max Allan Collins established that, more or less, that Tracy had been a cop for 25 years and that Tracy himself was now 50 years old, meaning that every two years of "real time" accounted for one year of continuity time. Yet, just two years later, Collins brought back Pruneface, who had been a Nazi and we were told that was still the case. So, in effect, Collins tossed off his own continuity explanation because he felt he had a better story to tell.

#677 terminus

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Posted 06 June 2010 - 10:52 PM

It's because of this that they looked to rebooting it anyway. Clearly people still want Bond novels, but if you want to publish a current Bond novel, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I liked Benson, but his books were a jumbled mess continuity wise.
(snip)


Some of this reflects was Glidrose (now Ian Fleming Publications) wanted. When Benson took over, one of the conditions was that the stories be set in the "present day." Authors of any long-running series in any medium face the same problem at one time or another.

To use 2 examples in other media: the U.S. television show Gunsmoke, which ran 20 years, had an odd continuity. It was more or less always 1873 (although even there you can find some deviation) but the characters clearly got older. In the 13th season, Doc says Matt Dillon has been U.S. marshal for 13 years. In the 17th season, Kitty says she first met Matt 17 years earlier, etc., etc.


The Dick Tracy comic strip, which began 79 years ago, is even stranger. In 1981, the strip's 50th anniversary, Max Allan Collins established that, more or less, that Tracy had been a cop for 25 years and that Tracy himself was now 50 years old, meaning that every two years of "real time" accounted for one year of continuity time. Yet, just two years later, Collins brought back Pruneface, who had been a Nazi and we were told that was still the case. So, in effect, Collins tossed off his own continuity explanation because he felt he had a better story to tell.


Marvel Comics have an approximate six years of comics equates to one year passing for the characters and this has been acknowledge in the pages of the comics.

#678 Jack Spang

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Posted 06 June 2010 - 10:55 PM

I don't like what he is doing with the May character.

It's also a shame we will have a different author for each book but it could be a good thing... Atleast adult Bond books are still being written though! :-)

Edited by Jack Spang, 06 June 2010 - 10:56 PM.


#679 Jeff007

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Posted 06 June 2010 - 11:18 PM

I'm all for these changes that Dr. Shatterhand has let us know about. Something new is great and this probably should have been done with Benson (not his fault though) . I'm actually more excited to find out all about this new James Bond then when Devil May Care came out. I have an open mind about all of this. Nobody thought a blonde would be good at Bond either.

#680 Napoleon Solo

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Posted 06 June 2010 - 11:21 PM

Marvel Comics have an approximate six years of comics equates to one year passing for the characters and this has been acknowledge in the pages of the comics.


That's interesting. In the early years at Marvel, they had references to things happening in real time. During the Lee-Ditko years on Spider-Man, there were references to things occurring "last month," in keeping with the monthly publication schedule. Toward the end of the Lee-Colan run on Daredevil, there were references to Matt Murdock having been DD for about five years. Obviously, as the years passed, they knew they couldn't maintain that (Reed Richard and Ben Grimm had fought in World War II), so an alternative method had to be found.

#681 Righty007

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Posted 06 June 2010 - 11:23 PM

I don't like what he is doing with the May character.

It's also a shame we will have a different author for each book but it could be a good thing... Atleast adult Bond books are still being written though! :-)

I originally thought he was changing May's nationality too but actually he's introducing an entirely new maid character.

#682 Loomis

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Posted 06 June 2010 - 11:46 PM

Random thought, we've had Bond having a First in Oriental Languages from Cambridge - might it be an idea and a logical change for NuBond to have a First in Arabic (or Middle Eastern Languages)?


That's a very interesting question. I've been wondering which foreign languages Deaver's rebooted Bond might speak. Although Mandarin seems, if anything, an even more logical choice nowadays than it did when YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE was made.

Fleming's Bond speaks French and German fluently but nothing else (apart from English, obviously). I forget whether he also has a smattering of Russian. I guess Arabic and Mandarin (and maybe also Russian) would be more logical for The New James Bond™ than French and German.

And I gather Eton offers - or at least in recent years did offer - classes in Japanese. Probably also teaches Arabic and Mandarin these days, for all I know. Presumably Bond will still be an old Etonian.

#683 terminus

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Posted 06 June 2010 - 11:55 PM

I grew up in the middle east and my school offered a GCSE in Arabic B) Not sure if Eton does or not.

#684 Peaceful

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Posted 07 June 2010 - 12:32 AM

Also, Peaceful, you should know books are edited. He'll probably be edited by IFP, by Hodder, and by Simon & Schuster. I expect he will also have his wife and maybe a few friends read it over. I think he's smart enough and worldly enough to know what he's doing. But should he makes some culturally insensitive mistake (or even a technical mistake), it will almost certainly be caught by one of these parties and a change suggested. An author does not write a book and drop it off at the printer (although I'm sure they wish they could).

BTW, DO NOT let your friends read ANY Fleming. B)


Let's hope so :tdown:

#685 Jack Spang

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Posted 07 June 2010 - 02:55 AM

I don't like what he is doing with the May character.

It's also a shame we will have a different author for each book but it could be a good thing... Atleast adult Bond books are still being written though! :-)

I originally thought he was changing May's nationality too but actually he's introducing an entirely new maid character.


Yes, I misinterpreted that. I still don't like it. Mind you, so far it's the only thing I don't like. Everything else sounds wonderful except for maybe the fast pacing. I hope the pacing isn't any faster than Fleming's stories. If it isn't then I'm fine with it. DMC was faster paced than Fleming's books.

If I decided to remove May then I wouldn't even bring a maid back.

"Presumably Bond will still be an old Etonian."

I hope so. No reason why these aspects of his background history have to change since Eton is still around.

Edited by Jack Spang, 07 June 2010 - 02:59 AM.


#686 zencat

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Posted 07 June 2010 - 03:05 AM

Frankly, I never loved the character of May. It always seemed soooo old fashioned and even made Bond seem a little precious. He needs someone to cook for him, etc. Maybe it was de rigor for a bachelor in the 1950s, but notice there's no May in Dr. No or LALD (films). I could live without the character entirely.

#687 K1Bond007

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Posted 07 June 2010 - 03:58 AM

Frankly, I never loved the character of May. It always seemed soooo old fashioned and even made Bond seem a little precious. He needs someone to cook for him, etc. Maybe it was de rigor for a bachelor in the 1950s, but notice there's no May in Dr. No or LALD (films). I could live without the character entirely.


I never understood the character. Maybe I missed the big paragraph from Fleming explaining why Bond needed May around (it seemed more like charity than necessity), but it never made sense to me. He was always gone. Honestly, Bond is one of those people that I can see living out of a hotel (not just any hotel..). If I were writing it that's probably what I would do.

#688 whiteskwirl

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Posted 07 June 2010 - 04:01 AM

I always thought Bond wasn't especially rich anyway, so how can he afford a maid, a Bentley, custom cigarettes, and expensive shirts?

#689 K1Bond007

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Posted 07 June 2010 - 04:10 AM

I always thought Bond wasn't especially rich anyway, so how can he afford a maid, a Bentley, custom cigarettes, and expensive shirts?


Pretty much every character in Fleming's books lived outside their means with the exception of the villains who were almost always the richest guys around. Can't remember the precise books, but for example, M is said to make something like 6-7K pounds a year, but to gain entry to Blades you need to be able to easily clear 100K.

#690 Bill

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Posted 07 June 2010 - 05:29 AM

Having just read the item on the main page, and not having had the time to read the myriad reactions on this subject, I do not know exactly how to react.

As I said in my earlier post on the issue of who should be M in this book, the news that a Young Bond series was commissioned was met with some concern by me, at first. The timeline was a concern. However, Charlie Higson really had no choice but to set it within the Fleming timeline, and having just completed By Royal Command this week, I am happy to say that all five of his books are brilliant--an excellent contribution to the literary canon. And five books that fit neatly into continuity with all the rest of the series, from Fleming to Benson.

Pearson's James Bond: The Authorized Biography of 007 and The Moneypenny Diaries are interesting in that they do not fit into quite the same framework as Fleming and the prequel and continuation novels. Making Bond "real" (and certainly mentioned in the Obit in YOLT) was a conceit that those other novels never dealt with (again the couple of sentences in YOLT notwithstanding) as it would have been incredibly problematic. Still, I enjoyed the regular novels and the "real" Bond books on equal footings, two different ways of looking at Fleming's enduring hero.

Thus, having said that, I think that we will have to view Project X as a third way of looking at the literary Bond. A new continuity. As those of you who may have read my postings in the past, particularly with regard to the 2006 CR reboot, I am not in favor of the concept of rebooting Bond. I always saw him as a timeless hero. The film series kept him going for 40 years, well beyond any realistic way for an agent to be viable, but it worked. I still don't think that Bond had to be rebooted in the film series, and given the uncertainty of that series' future at this point, I do not know if the next Bond film will continue with the Craig continuity.

Thus, there is no real need to make Bond a child of the 80s. That is, unless Project X is also meant to see Bond as an agent just starting out, perhaps amateurish and learning along the way. The curious thing is that aside from Young Bond, whose purpose was to do just that, none of the novels really take Bond on a tremendous learning curve, aside from CR. In other words, he does not make many mistakes in the books. He is certainly a more seasoned agent as the series progresses, to the point where Sir Miles asked him to take over the SIS in SeaFire, but the things that happen to him only enhance his status as a professional--they are just gravy on an already great steak. This is not to say that events do not occur to him which would give him more emotional weight (Tracy in particular--YOLT and the frequent mentions in the Gardner and occasional Benson books), and sometimes allowing him to toy with resigning from time to time, but they do not really impact his professionalism.

Truthfully, if they want to stop Bond's smoking which, aside from DMC [which really should not count as it is set before the Gardner novels] I do not think Bond has actually smoked since the early Gardner books, I have no problem with that. It simply need not be mentioned at all. Obviously, from that brief interview there seem to be more changes. Still, on their face, none seem to be fatal.

The fact is that if the Fleming Estate wanted to make M a man, just have Mawdsley retire, and bring Sir Miles out of retirement, or replace her with a new man. Problem solved. The same goes for Moneypenny--I do not remember if her age difference with Bond is ever specifically referenced. And as for a Pakistani manservant, again, just have May retire and be replaced.

Obviously, there is more afoot in this then just these characters, because these changes could be wrought with just a few sentences and have no effect on the thrust of the narrative. If they are rebooting the series to allow Bond to be more of an anti-terrorism expert and making MI6 a more ruthless organization, again, there is no real need to do so--just put something in the book mentioning the fact that Bond has had a little more different training as part of his job--Gardner always had him brush up on things--(although SPECTRE is the granddaddy of all terrorist organizations, and Gardner had no problem updating them with Islamic ties, without having to change Bond one iota), and I never thought that Bond ever doubted that he was expendable--that the mission was more important then him.

I realize I may be rambling here, and it is now 1:16 AM and I have to go to work in the morning, but I just wanted to post my early thoughts. I saw elsewhere online that Raymond Benson has vouched for Jeffrey Deaver. That alone gives me hope. That, and the fact that Mr. Deaver is a true Bond fan does as well. Thus, any fears of a repeat of the Devil May Care mediocrity do not seem to be necessary. Still, the fact is that aside from the ambiguity of the American presence in the novel, DMC does still fit into continuity. This book, by design, will not, and will set its own continuity. The real test is will the continuity that it puts into place feel like James Bond, or will it just be a facsimile 007--a Bond in name only? I guess only time will tell.

Bill

Edited by Bill, 07 June 2010 - 05:57 AM.