90 replies to this topic

[Dekard77]

Personally, I think it would have been better had the actresses swapped roles. Have Marceau play the nuclear fission expert, (with a more believable name that would suit how she played the character) and have Richards play King.

This way, Marceau would have at least been more believable, (than Richards was) and Richards more believable as a much younger, scheming woman, intent on revenge against her father, along with her desire to see her scheme work financially for her.

Anyone agree?

No, not really. Richards would likely have made the Elektra character, the most important figure of the movie, a complete joke. She comes from the Pamela Anderson school of acting with your breasts, and would probably not have been able to handle such a (fairly) complex role.

Yes, but at least one would have lowered one's expectations and anticipated that she would have been dreadful, rather than so terribly disappointed that the actress cast turned in a shocker.

Watch Wild Things, Starship Troopers or Empire. She is very cold in all of them. I think today she lost any credibility she had due to drama with husband and poor choice of movie rolls. At one point she was a very promising young actress.

[singleentendre]

^Add Drop Dead Gorgeous to that list. I thought she was PERFECT in that very underrated and hilarious movie. That being said, she was playing a snotty, stone cold bitch, but still...great acting.

[Sigma7]

Twine is my favourite Brosnan, better than TND, GE, and DAD

[Tybre]

^Add Drop Dead Gorgeous to that list. I thought she was PERFECT in that very underrated and hilarious movie. That being said, she was playing a snotty, stone cold bitch, but still...great acting.

Indeed. She was good back in the day, but by the time of TWINE it's just kind of...

[right idea, wrong pussy]

I think fans tend to respond negatively to Christmas for the same reason they respond negatively to Stacey Sutton in AVTAK, another Bond girl who is regularly listed as "worst Bond girl" alongside Richard's character. My theory is that most people expect Bond girls to either be eye candy or "Bond's equal", and Christmas Jones and Stacey Sutton don't fit into either category.

Tanya Roberts and Denise Richards not eye candy? Really? Truth be told I've never been all that bothered about Richards but she's clearly a beautiful woman and many guys out there would disagree with your assessment here I would think.

Although it occurs to me that I might be misunderstanding you and that you mean that Stutton and Jones go beyond just being "eye candy" as characters, without reaching "Bond's equal" status. If so, interesting point.

Yes, I think that Roberts and Richards are both attractive or at least meant to be attractive to the average male (as are all Bond girls - which is why they never cast, say Meryl Streep as a Bond girl), but their function is meant to extend beyond just being the object of male lust. I think this is true of all the Bond girls really (well, other than the extras who hang around pools in bikinis). But for some reason, with Richards and Roberts people seem to act angry that they don't just exist simply as eye candy or as "Bond's equal" in a Halle Berry sort of way . Both are meant to provide Bond with particular detailed expertise that he, in spite of his many talents, shouldn't have. There's no reason why Bond should know details about California geologic faults or the most efficient method of disarming a Russian nuclear device, so why not give that expertise to an actress who can also serve as the object of Bond's (and the viewer's) amorous attentions?

It seems to me, though, that many of the negative reviews of TWINE (even when it first came out) focused inordinantly on Roberts and how ridiculous it was for her to be a nuclear physicist. True, I suppose, but no more ridiculous than minor fuctionaries for the Treasury department looking as hot as Eva Green or Russian secret agents looking like Barbara Bach.

[JimmyBond]

Twine is my favourite Brosnan, better than TND, GE, and DAD

Really? I find those three films much more enjoyable than the dreary TWINE. Brosnan also puts in better performances in TND and DAD.

[dee-bee-five]

Twine is my favourite Brosnan, better than TND, GE, and DAD

Really? I find those three films much more enjoyable than the dreary TWINE. Brosnan also puts in better performances in TND and DAD.

TWINE is also my favourite Brosnan Bond. I think he puts in his best performance in it, it's well-directed and, for me, its well-written script is never less than compelling.

[tim partridge]

Much of the blame must be laid at the door of director Michael Apted - while the script does tail off in quality round about the halfway mark, TWINE always tends to have some reasonable things going for it on paper, but Apted is often a prodigiously boring director, approaching key scenes with all the flair, passion and cinematic vision of an anonymous hack making a BBC costume drama.

In my opinion, those kind of stylistically restrained directors have been the blood of the 007 movie franchise (Young, Glen, Campbell). There's a truly timeless, British sensibility there, as opposed to say the ubiquitous Hollywood flash we see everywhere else.

There's a great deal I love about TWINE, too. Outside of the Armstrong sequences and the tacked on sub ending I think it's as straight and espionage driven as CR or QOS.

Edited by tim partridge, 09 June 2009 - 10:02 PM.

[byline]

I mostly like this film. Not a classic, but probably Brosnan's best, with his best performance as 007. Would have benfitted from an unhappy ending and completely omitting Christmas Jones from the screenplay.

I agree with this. I generally like the film and believe it's Brosnan's best Bond performance, but also feel like it would've been so much better without the Christmas Jones character. It's like somebody said, "Well, we need a female bimbo character; it is Bond, after all. So let's shoehorn one in." And that's exactly what it feels like. Bond easily could have done all those scenes himself, and I think the film would've been far better for it.

Also, I guess I'm one of the few who actually liked Marceau's performance of Elektra. As someone else put it, she got to be a Bond woman, sacrificial lamb and villain, all at the same time. I thought she pulled it off pretty well. Of course, other than "Braveheart," I can't think of anything else I've seen her in, so I can't really make comparisons. But I thought she pulled off the shift from supposedly innocent victim to baddie quite well.

Mostly, I appreciate what Brosnan was able to bring to the role this time around, and wish he'd been able to do this consistently throughout his four films. This is the only one where I really believe his Bond is dangerous and not to be trifled with, and I also see some other emotions flickering on the surface, and in a believable way. Yes, the story is melodramatic, but it all came together for me in a way that made sense.

[DamnCoffee]

Also, I guess I'm one of the few who actually liked Marceau's performance of Elektra. As someone else put it, she got to be a Bond woman, sacrificial lamb and villain, all at the same time. I thought she pulled it off pretty well. Of course, other than "Braveheart," I can't think of anything else I've seen her in, so I can't really make comparisons. But I thought she pulled off the shift from supposedly innocent victim to baddie quite well.

Sophie Marceau is probably one of the strongest aspects of the film. She's a brilliant actress, and considering that she shines in every scene she's in, makes me wonder what Elektra's character would've been like if she was actually written properly and fully developed. Same with Miranda Frost, really. Again a brilliant actress, poor character.

Ah well, as long as Purvis and Wade are on board, we'll have to make do. -_-

[Tybre]

Also, I guess I'm one of the few who actually liked Marceau's performance of Elektra. As someone else put it, she got to be a Bond woman, sacrificial lamb and villain, all at the same time. I thought she pulled it off pretty well. Of course, other than "Braveheart," I can't think of anything else I've seen her in, so I can't really make comparisons. But I thought she pulled off the shift from supposedly innocent victim to baddie quite well.

Sophie Marceau is probably one of the strongest aspects of the film. She's a brilliant actress, and considering that she shines in every scene she's in, makes me wonder what Elektra's character would've been like if she was actually written properly and fully developed. Same with Miranda Frost, really. Again a brilliant actress, poor character.

Ah well, as long as Purvis and Wade are on board, we'll have to make do. -_-

As I recall they were on CR and that was quite the gem of a film. At least we have Paul Haggis to clean up their mess now

[agentjamesbond007]

I find nothing to hate about The World Is Not Enough.

I think it's because Brosnan did a better job in Die Another Day and attracted more people towards that film instead. It was probably because Die Another Day was the last Bond fim that Brosnan made.

[MattofSteel]

I don't particularly hate TWINE, actually I was quite enthralled when I first saw it (but then again, I was all of 14 years old).

The words "dreary" and "forgettable" have been thrown around in the thread thus far, and I'd say they're appropriate. The entire film seems to happen on cloudy days, against a sort of fading Eastern architecture. Contrast that with From Russia with Love - similar (sometimes identical!) settings, completely different feel. The "melodrama" of the film doesn't bother me. But it's entire "sad aging" aesthetic feels like antithesis to the "humorous techno" aesthetic TND was pushing.

The script, I've since realized, was somewhat overrated. Props to the writers and producers for pushing Bond's emotional threshold, but ultimately the points are lost on Renard.

He has the potential, through merely a description of his character, to be the best villain in the history of James Bond. He's supposed to be an "anarchist," it's hardly noticeable save for an occasional throwaway line. Heath Ledger's Joker was an anarchist, and the script celebrated and drew upon that fact for the plot. An anarchist, an "agent of chaos" as Jonathon Nolan phrased it, should be the most terrifying of all villains. Renard was not.

And on top of that wonderful character point, he can't feel pain. There is nothing more Bondian, or possibly more cool, you can do to a villain. And yet this concept isn't just wasted. It's completely, utterly, forgotten. Sure, he can hold some hot rocks. Sure, a bullet "nicks" his arm. In the words of a friend of mine, "I wanted to see him have an arm ripped off and not even notice, but just keep clawing toward Bond in a mad rage!"

TWINE, like somewhat said, just ultimately feels like filler. Well produced effort and emotionally the most complex and interesting of the Brosnan films, but underwhelming on account of the massive amount of wasted potential for what could have been (which, in my humble opinion, could have otherwise been one of Brosnan's best).

[tim partridge]

The entire film seems to happen on cloudy days, against a sort of fading Eastern architecture. Contrast that with From Russia with Love - similar (sometimes identical!) settings, completely different feel. The "melodrama" of the film doesn't bother me. But it's entire "sad aging" aesthetic feels like antithesis to the "humorous techno" aesthetic TND was pushing.

Don't you think TWINE feels like GoldeneEye a lot in this respect? I think there is visual continuity there at least moreso than any other Broz era film.

Edited by tim partridge, 10 June 2009 - 04:21 AM.

[JimmyBond]

The entire film seems to happen on cloudy days, against a sort of fading Eastern architecture. Contrast that with From Russia with Love - similar (sometimes identical!) settings, completely different feel. The "melodrama" of the film doesn't bother me. But it's entire "sad aging" aesthetic feels like antithesis to the "humorous techno" aesthetic TND was pushing.

Don't you think TWINE feels like GoldeneEye a lot in this respect? I think there is visual continuity there at least moreso than any other Broz era film.

Goldeneye had more color to it though. The opening car chase was set amid a very sunny day. The Monaco scenes felt very ambient and open (I can't recall any location being this alive in TWINE). Sure Russia was a bit flat, but that's what Russia is supposed to look like, cold and dreary. And finally the Cuba scenes were very warm.

[right idea, wrong pussy]

The entire film seems to happen on cloudy days, against a sort of fading Eastern architecture. Contrast that with From Russia with Love - similar (sometimes identical!) settings, completely different feel. The "melodrama" of the film doesn't bother me. But it's entire "sad aging" aesthetic feels like antithesis to the "humorous techno" aesthetic TND was pushing.

Don't you think TWINE feels like GoldeneEye a lot in this respect? I think there is visual continuity there at least moreso than any other Broz era film.

Indeed, I think that's why GE and TWINE are the only two Brosnans I like. Both are set in Bond's classic stomping ground of Eastern Europe / the old Soviet bloc. As such, the fading architecture is totally appropriate, given the state of disintegration in Russia and the former Soviet Union.

I think that people criticizing TWINE on the basis of its atmosphere vis a vis FRWL need to remember that Brosnan (and I'm hardly a Brosnan fan) had a tremendous disadvantage compared to the other Bonds. Earlier Bonds had the Cold War as a ready-made backdrop to their adventures, even if the USSR was almost never Bond's direct adversary. Craig has international terrorism. Brosnan was the reigning Bond during the period of Pax Americana, when their there were no obvious threats to global stability other than the odd Iraqi, Serbian, or North Korean nuts. The only really obviously dangerous part of the world was Russia, not because of the Russian government itself, but because the worry was that the Russian government had no real control over its own people and its nuclear stocks (I daresay that Putin's "reforms" notwithstanding, this is a still a major concern). I give TWINE major credit for addresing these very timely concerns, unlike TND and DAD, which were content to have fantastical villains with outlandish lairs.

[mkr10001]

i think of all the brosnan ones, goldeneye is my least fave.

[PositivelyShocking]

If you ask me, TWINE is hated because it takes more chances than the typical Bond film does, with more emphasis on drama and characterization, at least before Casino Royale came around. Like every film in a franchise that's different, it divides fans into love it or hate it groups. That being said, I think it does have Brosnan's best performance as Bond, as well as the best acting by any Bond girl ever, by Sophie Marceau.

[JimmyBond]

If you ask me, TWINE is hated because it takes more chances than the typical Bond film does,

Really? Cause I don't think it takes any chances. It pretends to take chances sure, but at the end of the day it's just another formulaic James Bond film. As far as characterization I really don't see it. What exactly does Bond learn at the end of the day? What kind of character arc does Elektra have? None. Now that's not a bad thing in any way, if the film wasnt so dull in the first place.

[Tubes]

TWINE was/is a pretty ambitious film. It's problems center around an iffy screenplay that was written by committee, bad execution on the production side, and it's inability to decide if it wants to be hard boiled, romantic, or usual Bondian action fluff.

I'm making a fanedit of it (called Pressure Point). It's not perfect by any stretch, but it is shorter and cuts a lot of the fat out of the movie, as well as reducing Christmas Jones's screentime. If everyone is interested, I'll make a thread about it and post a cut list.

[The Ghost Who Walks]

As far as characterization I really don't see it. What exactly does Bond learn at the end of the day?

That's the worst aspect of the film: Bond doesn't care that a woman he fell in love with turns out to be a villain, he doesn't care that he killed her in cold blood. He just goes on to snog Christmas Jones, which completely robs the finale of the power it could have had.

Edited by The Ghost Who Walks, 20 June 2009 - 07:26 AM.

[baerrtt]

If you ask me, TWINE is hated because it takes more chances than the typical Bond film does, with more emphasis on drama and characterization, at least before Casino Royale came around. Like every film in a franchise that's different, it divides fans into love it or hate it groups. That being said, I think it does have Brosnan's best performance as Bond, as well as the best acting by any Bond girl ever, by Sophie Marceau.

As others have mentioned if you're going to attempt pushing James Bond into character-driven/emotional/'dark' territory then actually DO that and don't give us a film which shows that everybody involved then, Pierce aside, didn't want to alienate the moviegoing audience so compromised to the point that genuinely interesting ideas and characterisation appear botched completely and act as mere window dressing.

[B. Brown]

TWINE was one of the better Brosnan flicks, but overall, it was pretty lame.

Generic action, terrible music, some poor acting. Sophie Marceau was great, though. What a waste of a Bond girl. She would've done well in a quality Bond flick.

[Ambler]

The scene where Bond drives through the field of oil derricks is excellent, a rare treat in a series that is often surprisingly dull visually.

[Licence_007]

I find in quite boring to be honest. Never quite catches my interest at all.

[DamnCoffee]

Watching TWINE now.

It starts off good, but GOD, what a bore...

CRISTMAS: Wait a minute. Are you gonna do what I think you're gonna do?
BOND: What do I need to diffuse a nuclear Bomb?
CHRISTMAS: Me!
BOND: No, a nuclear physicist.

BOND: Do you know how to drive one of these things?
CHRISTMAS: Doesn't exactly take a degree in nuclear physics.
BOND: Oh good, you should be fine then.

-_-

Plus, what's the deal with...

M: What's the time?
Elektra: It's time for you to die....

Elektra walks off, leaving her alive.

[bondrules]

There is nothing good in it. Plot, acting, etc. It's a horrible and senseless mistake.

[dee-bee-five]

If you ask me, TWINE is hated because it takes more chances than the typical Bond film does, with more emphasis on drama and characterization, at least before Casino Royale came around. Like every film in a franchise that's different, it divides fans into love it or hate it groups. That being said, I think it does have Brosnan's best performance as Bond, as well as the best acting by any Bond girl ever, by Sophie Marceau.

Well said. It takes chances. The never-less-than intriguing screenplay is well-written. It's well-acted, particularly by Brosnan. And I like Apted's direction. All subjective, of course.

[The Ghost Who Walks]

I don't think it takes that many chances: Everything is fine by the end; Bond saves the world as usual and gets the girl, despite just having killed the woman he clearly fell in love with after discovering she is a potential mass-murderer. The ending is a horrible cop-out, completely lacking the balls of OHMSS or CR.

[DamnCoffee]

Bruised balls in Casino Royale's case.