90 replies to this topic

[00Nothing]

Why does everyone hate TWINE? Not that I have any problems with it myself, I find it a thoroughly enjoyable film, it's just I've noticed that of all the Brosnan movies, it's the one everyone seems to have the most problems with. I'm just curious as to why this is. I'll agree it's not is best, I think that honour goes to either GE or TND, but I've often thought that DAD was his weakest, certainly when the film gets to the ice palace. So let me have it, why is TWINE hated?

[MkB]

I like TWINE! I suppose that' why everyone hates me!
There are some disappointing moments (the climax in Istanbul could have been sooooo much better, etc.), but Sophie Marceau rocks and the storyline, despite some flaws, is smart and original.

[Auric64]

I like TWINE as well. Much better than that so called "masterpiece" QOS.

Mind you, I`d put any of the Brosnan Bond films over QOS.

[Dekard77]

Brosnan's cocky Bond. The director has no clue about directing a Bond flick. Some scenes are embarrassing to watch. The sets look like they have shot in extremely low budget conditions. The plot makes no sense and Sophie/Richard's are both miscast in this movie.
Torture scene is a joke, BMW caviar factory moments are laughable and finally 'M' is ridiculous. When Bond and Renard are suppose to have this cool fight at the end it ends up being one confused unwanted banter exchange moments in a any 007 flicks. TMWGG may have it faults but the performances are watch-able. Thats the least I can say about this movie.
QOS is a very good film. It dealt with Bond having to deal with a mission and leaving his personal feelings aside.The villains/Bond girls worked and the film did have nice glossy look. I really love DAD as well. Not so much the parachute scene on ice.
Redeeming points in TWINE
Theme song/Score (not parts where Arnold uses piano like tip toe)
Desmond Llewelyn
Robbie Coltrane
Bilbao escape at the beginning .

[jamie00007]

Totally forgetable film. Not particularly awful, just a filler movie.

[sthgilyadgnivileht]

This film was not enough.
For me TWINE misfired despite its admirable attempts to give Bond an emotional edge and tell a good story.

I never felt Apted was 100% comfortable in the directors chair here and I don't think he understood how to make a Bond film like say Campbell or Glen do. Nothing seems to work properly and fit together. A lot of the scenes feel like they are included because a Bond film requires them, rather than being right for this particular story. Consequently they stick out like a sore thumb. Its too obvious when the film is doing a drama scene, an action scene and so on. Then we have extra helpings of M just because its Judi Dench playing the part.

Nothing in TWINE is up to par. The majority almost gets there but nothing quite hits the mark. Compare previous Bond films and often there is something that redeems the weaker films but here I don't think there is. Almost everything could have been a bit better - the editing, music score, casting, cinematography, script and the action sequences. IMO nothing stands out as being REALLY GOOD (apart from perhaps the PTS, the final appearance from Q and some solid production design). Brosnan does well and there is no doubt this film almost was and should have been his classic.

Edited by sthgilyadgnivileht, 06 June 2009 - 01:20 PM.

[Loomis]

I've just watched TWINE to see how it looks on Blu-ray. Well, it looks terrific on Blu (especially the boat chase PTS), but, as a film, it's still awful.

Now, it actually starts pretty well. I adore the PTS, and the half hour or so after that isn't too bad (although, with hindsight, it's fairly staggering that the Bond series was still chucking in groansome OCTOPUSSY-esque Q scenes as recently as 1999), setting up promising characters and an unusually meaty script by 007 flick standards. The problem is, though, it all starts to fall apart after the underground action sequence in Kazakhstan - the film refuses to deliver on any of that early promise and instead peters out into a mess of meaningless melodrama, dull locations, unfunny quips and increasingly unexciting action. All the scenes in "Istanbul" (in reality probably Pinewood or wherever) are absolutely insufferable, and the submarine finale is tedious beyond belief.

Much of the blame must be laid at the door of director Michael Apted - while the script does tail off in quality round about the halfway mark, TWINE always tends to have some reasonable things going for it on paper, but Apted is often a prodigiously boring director, approaching key scenes with all the flair, passion and cinematic vision of an anonymous hack making a BBC costume drama. The "Stockholm syndrome" exchange between Bond and Elektra might have worked had it not been for Apted's flat and dull handling, and this goes for much else in the film. However, Apted's hardly the only culprit for the misfire that is TWINE, for just about everyone's acting is hammy and horrible. Only Brosnan is engaging, and indeed he more or less carries the whole show.

This is the only Bond film I dislike.

[DamnCoffee]

The World is not Enough is a difficult one for me, I like the whole idea but it was poorly executed.

I loved the PTS, easily the best action sequence in the film.
I love the character of Elektra.
I like what they tried to do with Bonds character.

Other than that, the film is absoloutly terrible.

The writing is bad, the direction is bad, Denise Richards is horrific.

The thing that worries me most is why EON are still happy to continue with Purvis and Wade, when they are clearly bad writers. That's why I welcomed Paul Haggis to the franchise with open arms.

[Professor Dent]

I find this one to be average. I think Brosnan looked more comfortable in the Bond role this time around. The PTS is great & Arnold's music for the Thames boat chase sequence is very good. Desmond Llewelyn's final scene as Q was a very fitting & touching way to have him bring closure to his tenure in the role. The story & some characters are not without their flaws but there are enough things that I like about it to still enjoy it when I watch it.

[john.steed]

TWINE is my favorite of the Brosnan films. I very much enjoy the opening sequence, finishing with the chase on the Thames. I thought it was Brosnan's best performance it it was nice that played a bigger part of the plot tha is usual for M. Q's last scene is also a sentimental favorite.

On the downside, Denise Richards was definately down at the bottom of the list of Bond girls. However, I loved Sophia Marceau as Elektra. I liked how she was manipulating everyone, including Renard. She, along with Eva Green, are my favorite Bond women since the Moore era ended and are high in my list all time.

Bottom line, a fun enjoyable Bond film that does have one major weakness.

[Tybre]

The World is not Enough is a difficult one for me, I like the whole idea but it was poorly executed.

I loved the PTS, easily the best action sequence in the film.
I love the character of Elektra.
I like what they tried to do with Bonds character.

Other than that, the film is absoloutly terrible.

The writing is bad, the direction is bad, Denise Richards is horrific.

Ditto

The thing that worries me most is why EON are still happy to continue with Purvis and Wade, when they are clearly bad writers. That's why I welcomed Paul Haggis to the franchise with open arms.

Probably because they couldn't find anyone else at the time or something. If they're gonna use a Bros era, I say bring back Feirstein. GoldenEye was far from the best film of the franchise (imo) but (again, imo) it was the overall strongest of Brosnan's era, and the story is far from terrible. Of course, I would rather they just drop the Brosnan era writers entirely, but hey, what can you do?

[DamnCoffee]

I meant why EON are still using P&W now. Considering how bad Die Another Day turned out.

[Tybre]

I meant why EON are still using P&W now. Considering how bad Die Another Day turned out.

Well yes, I'm aware of that, I was simply saying if they're going to keep using Brosnan era people, they ought to switch to Feirstein.

[DamnCoffee]

Oh I see.

[Turn]

TWINE's biggest crime to me is it just doesn't feel like a James Bond film. It feels more like one of those films Brosnan did prior to getting the Bond role, like Live Wire.

Even when a film's plot and characters aren't that engaging, at least we'd have interesting action to fall back on. With TWINE it's the weakest and least original action in the series. Action seems to be an afterthought here with everything hinging on the story. CR had a lot less action than normal and was much longer, but it didn't hurt it and those scenes were excellent.

I watched TWINE recently on Blu-ray and noticed how much of it is people standing around talking, plotting, strategizing and staring at computers and monitors.

Many seem to defend TWINE in trying to be something different, but for trying to set itself apart, TWINE sure seems to tick off all the standard boxes to try to keep in step with the rest of the series:
-Car with gadgets
-Q gadgets
-Henchman with a disfiguring mark
-Recurring character (Zukovsky)
-M disapproving of Bond
-Casino scene
-Q scene
-Aston Martin appearance
-Skiing scene
-Showdown on villain's base of operations
-Ticking bombs
-A turncoat woman (come on, Elektra is not that original)
-Good girl who relunctantly helps Bond
-Smutty scene at the end

DAD seems to take equal, if not more, stick than TWINE does I've noticed. At least with DAD at least I had a good time watching it. There's just nothing in TWINE that stands out or makes me want to watch it over and over. Even in a highlight reel of Bond films, is there anything you can put in from TWINE that would stand up against the other films, except maybe the Q boat chase>

[singleentendre]

I love TWINE a lot; it's one of my favorite Bond movies. I can understand the criticism though, until it gets to "Denise Richards was horrible."

Really?

I can see her having a less than average performance, sure. But she did not anywhere near ruin the film OR the character in my opinion. In fact, I think she's above average in the scene where she's introduced. After that, the only flaw I see is a flat delivery of some lines. And let me tell you, she is not the first or last Bond girl to be flat.

The real issue for most people (in my opinion) is that she's Denise Richards. For some reason people can't accept her as a Bond girl just because of who she is. In my opinion, any movie greatly improves when you leave behind your preconceptions of the cast and just focus on their part in the movie; TWINE certainly does.

And then the next argument: DENISE RICHARDS AS A NUCLEAR SCIENTIST?????? TOTALLY UNREALISTIC!!!!!!!

The Bond franchise has offered us:

• An autogyro named "Little Nellie" that included a machine gun, a microphone and a cinecamera
• A satellite death ray...multiple times
• A 7 foot killer with metal teeth
• All of Moonraker
• Killer yo-yos
• An ice palace
• Two movies in which Jason Bourne manages to get up and keep going as if he were Superman.

And people find Denise Richards as a nuclear scientist too unbelievable? I would think suspension of disbelief could more easily apply to casting than a movie plot.

Christmas Jones is far from a fully developed character, but her role in the movie never really promises more and fulfills its goal. She's merely meant to be a sidekick, in my opinion. Perhaps people feel like the script tried too hard to make her seem like...well...a rocket scientist who would go around blowing up and saving the world, but really that's Bond's job. I've heard people complain here that Natalya is far too involved in Goldeneye. Well, here's a Bond girl not so involved and people still complain. Like I said, while Jones isn't a superwoman, she's not really a damsel in distress either. She gets captured by Renard sure...but so does Bond. And she needs Bond to open the hatch to save her, but she does the same thing for him, button-pressing style.

So while I see TWINE as not a perfect movie, I really don't understand people's hatred for Christmas Jones. Richards did what the script told her to do and so if people don't like the character it would seem wiser to blame the writers. I don't see how much emotion she can put in lines like "The hydrogen gas level's too high."

And for the record, I'm kidding about the Jason Bourne stuff. But I do think Craig's invincibility is more noticeable than the other Bond's.

[right idea, wrong pussy]

So while I see TWINE as not a perfect movie, I really don't understand people's hatred for Christmas Jones. Richards did what the script told her to do and so if people don't like the character it would seem wiser to blame the writers. I don't see how much emotion she can put in lines like "The hydrogen gas level's too high."

I think fans tend to respond negatively to Christmas for the same reason they respond negatively to Stacey Sutton in AVTAK, another Bond girl who is regularly listed as "worst Bond girl" alongside Richard's character. My theory is that most people expect Bond girls to either be eye candy or "Bond's equal", and Christmas Jones and Stacey Sutton don't fit into either category. It's perfectly true that Tanya Roberts screams a bit too much, just as its true that Denise Richards looks a bit ridiculous as a nuclear scientist wearing shorts and a cut-off top. But then again, are either of them any more ridiculous than a nature girl who collects shells wearing a bikini and a knife in her diving belt? Or a lesbian female pilot with the first name of Pussy?

Both characters play regular, ordinary people with specific skills and knowledge sets useful to Bond in his particular mission. Since they are professionals and not spies they aren't much use in the fights, but how many women have you met in your everyday life who would do better than either of them? I haven't met any.

[DamnCoffee]

I also think Bond fans aren't that keen on American Bond girls.

Stacy, Christmas, Tiffany, Pam, Holly.

Even though I feel that these last three are brilliant, Imo.

[jrcjohnny99]

I think the blame for TWINE lies at many doors;
I agree the script is weak, tho I think Purvis and Wade actually add a lot to the series, their understanding of Bond is essential.
Apted was a very poor choice as director, TWINE contains some of the worst perfromances ever in a Bond film; The character of Elektra is excellent but Marceau acts like she's in another movie entirely, Apted has to take a large amount of blame for that.
Richards is problematic, I like her, but she was miscast and again, poorly directed.
The set pieces are poorly worked and again, that mostly comes down to Apted.
Arnolds score was great in parts but I always thought the theme song was pretty weak.
On the plus side; good PTS, Coltrane, nice Q send off....

I do feel sorry for Brosnan who I think deserved better scripts and directors.
Ironically, I quite like large parts of DAD which seems pretty much despised here..

[DamnCoffee]

Another problem with The World is not Enough is that it's too bland.

If you look at the locations...

• MI6 Headquarters and Thames River, London
• Bilbao, Spain
• Ross-shire, Scotland
• Baku, Azerbaijan
• French Alps, France
• Tuleda, Spain
• Istanbul, Turkey

I mean, come on! Istanbul, Bilbao, France = beautiful cities! So why do they look so bland in the movie. I liked the idea of the Caviar Factory, but in the middle of the night? The film doesn't see much, location wise.

[Turn]

Another problem with The World is not Enough is that it's too bland.

If you look at the locations...

• MI6 Headquarters and Thames River, London
• Bilbao, Spain
• Ross-shire, Scotland
• Baku, Azerbaijan
• French Alps, France
• Tuleda, Spain
• Istanbul, Turkey

I mean, come on! Istanbul, Bilbao, France = beautiful cities! So why do they look so bland in the movie. I liked the idea of the Caviar Factory, but in the middle of the night? The film doesn't see much, location wise.

The main countries in this film were very exotic and mysterious 36 years before when FRWL came out. In TWINE, there is nothing exotic or interesting about them.

The use of Spain in the beginning makes little to no sense at all. You have Bond visiting a Swiss banker in Bilbao, Spain? There was a conversation or article somewhere in the fan circles at the time that was speculated it was filmed there because they wanted to work in the new Guggenheim Museum.

Sort of the same thing with the Millennium Dome later in the teaser sequence -- cool new building, we have to work it in somehow. I don't have a problem with them working in interesting landmarks into the films, but these examples seem rather forced.

[jamie00007]

Another problem with The World is not Enough is that it's too bland.

If you look at the locations...

• MI6 Headquarters and Thames River, London
• Bilbao, Spain
• Ross-shire, Scotland
• Baku, Azerbaijan
• French Alps, France
• Tuleda, Spain
• Istanbul, Turkey

I mean, come on! Istanbul, Bilbao, France = beautiful cities! So why do they look so bland in the movie. I liked the idea of the Caviar Factory, but in the middle of the night? The film doesn't see much, location wise.

Yes, I agree completely. Thats my biggest problem with the movie (and the Brosnan era in general, but much more so in this one than the others). It feels totally set-bound. You wonder why they even bothered filming on location when exterior shots seemed to be used for nothing other than some establishing shots. About the only city that gets properly used is London! Very exotic.

One of the things I love most about the Craig films is bringing back the "travelogue" feel of the films with extensive exterior on-location shooting.

Edited by jamie00007, 07 June 2009 - 12:41 AM.

[Tybre]

And then the next argument: DENISE RICHARDS AS A NUCLEAR SCIENTIST?????? TOTALLY UNREALISTIC!!!!!!!

My only issue with Denise Richards the nuclear scientist is she's prancing about in booty shorts and a tank top. A loose-sh midriff-exposing tank top. What nuclear scientist dresses like that on the job? I mean really, just look at the people around her by comparison. Apparently Christmas Jones is more concerned with being eye candy than some sort of potential health hazards.

[Major Tallon]

And then the next argument: DENISE RICHARDS AS A NUCLEAR SCIENTIST?????? TOTALLY UNREALISTIC!!!!!!!

My only issue with Denise Richards the nuclear scientist is she's prancing about in booty shorts and a tank top. A loose-sh midriff-exposing tank top. What nuclear scientist dresses like that on the job? I mean really, just look at the people around her by comparison. Apparently Christmas Jones is more concerned with being eye candy than some sort of potential health hazards.

I confess I don't know any nuclear scientists, but if they by chance look like Denise Richards, then that's exactly how they should dress.

[Marcato]

one word

GAROTTE

- two men holding Bond and he does not resist - and they can easyly place him on the GAROTTE and he STILL DOESN'T fight Back - and that's the Bond That smashed 3 men down in TND station breack scene ?


tsk tsk

but overall i was entertained but one can be tired of this film with mr. I-know-it-all-bond

[Darth Prefect]

I certainly don't hate it. It's my second favorite Brosnan and better than either Craig film. Yes, Denise Richards is bad, but she's made up for by the brilliant Sophie Marceau (who gets to be Bond girl, tragic figure and villain all in one). The relationship between M and Bond is great here as well and Brosnan crackles in his scenes with both Marceau and Dench (Richards, not so much - no chemistry).

And the song is great. Certainly the best of the Brosnans and probably the best since "A View to a Kill".

[Dekard77]

Another problem with The World is not Enough is that it's too bland.

If you look at the locations...

• MI6 Headquarters and Thames River, London
• Bilbao, Spain
• Ross-shire, Scotland
• Baku, Azerbaijan
• French Alps, France
• Tuleda, Spain
• Istanbul, Turkey

I mean, come on! Istanbul, Bilbao, France = beautiful cities! So why do they look so bland in the movie. I liked the idea of the Caviar Factory, but in the middle of the night? The film doesn't see much, location wise.

Yes, I agree completely. Thats my biggest problem with the movie (and the Brosnan era in general, but much more so in this one than the others). It feels totally set-bound. You wonder why they even bothered filming on location when exterior shots seemed to be used for nothing other than some establishing shots. About the only city that gets properly used is London! Very exotic.

One of the things I love most about the Craig films is bringing back the "travelogue" feel of the films with extensive exterior on-location shooting.

Amen Sir. It feels staged. Notice how bland the casino was? There were wires holding chandelier.I was having nightmares of cost cutting days of LTK the moment I saw it. While Elektra should have been playing games with her father she seems to be mucking about with M. M should be somewhat better guarded and informed than this. Her kidnapping is as believable Bond air gliding aboard a plane in GE....... Bond seems like he is going to cry any moment due to poor Elektra's bitch moods. Sophie is way too cold to be loved. I do agree with the fact that it wasn't Denise R's character being poorly written into the screen. I really liked the cruel performance in Wild things which made me wonder how come it wasn't her that played the spoilt brat baddie.
Never quite liked the way Baku was used. God forbid all of Peter Lamonts cheap tricks on pinewood grounds to make us believe we are actually in that location. Couldn't we be given a good chase with BMW? Doesn't have to be too similar to TND. God give the Bond fans an expensive Bond movie. Apparantly TWINE is suppose to be one of the most expensive Brits Films ever made. No joke.

[DR76]

Why does everyone hate TWINE? Not that I have any problems with it myself, I find it a thoroughly enjoyable film, it's just I've noticed that of all the Brosnan movies, it's the one everyone seems to have the most problems with. I'm just curious as to why this is. I'll agree it's not is best, I think that honour goes to either GE or TND, but I've often thought that DAD was his weakest, certainly when the film gets to the ice palace. So let me have it, why is TWINE hated?

What makes you think that everyone hates TWINE? I certainly don't. It's my second favorite Brosnan film. I simply don't like the Russian sub sequence in the finale. Personally, I think that TND was his worst. Too bland. More like Bond-by-the-numbers.

[00Nothing]

What makes you think that everyone hates TWINE?

It's just that anytime I come on to the forum it seems that somebody has a gripe with the film. Personally I love it, I was fifteen when I saw it and I thought it was great. If there was a big flaw that I had to label it with it's that the PTS is so good that the rest of the film does struggle to come up with something as good as it, but that's not to say I didn't like what I saw, because I did. As for Denise Richards, as I say, I was fifteen at the time and Wild Things was still a popular film amongst my age group at that time, so for that I didn't have any problems with her. I do understand the criticisms levelled at her, but I don't think she is anywhere near as bad as Tanya Richards and I loved the fact that M didn't just sit about MI6 waiting for Bond to call in and update her. Say what you want about the things that Michael and Barbara as well as Purvis and Wade have done with the franchise over the last fifteen years or so, but they have allowed Judi Dench to do wonderful things with that character and given her some wonderful scenes to act in. I love the notion that the events of the plot are pretty much M's fault.

[DamnCoffee]

I loved the fact that M didn't just sit about MI6 waiting for Bond to call in and update her. Say what you want about the things that Michael and Barbara as well as Purvis and Wade have done with the franchise over the last fifteen years or so, but they have allowed Judi Dench to do wonderful things with that character and given her some wonderful scenes to act in. I love the notion that the events of the plot are pretty much M's fault.

See. This is what I don't like about it.

The thought of M being kidnapped is a brilliant idea. It's just that Judi's M (Tomorrow Never Dies - Die Another Day) Is a poorly written character. It's only in Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace that the character was actually interesting. In GoldenEye, Bruce Feirstein made her look like this really uptight, hard drinking bitch, lesbian which was really interesting. This completely dissapeared with the rest of the Brosnan films. In fact, I see her in the Brosnan films as one of the worst ever characters in the franchise.