161 replies to this topic

[HildebrandRarity]

Although the naked torture scene is in the ROYALE novel there is no reason BOND has to be starkers at that point in the film - especially when you think of the other changes from page to screen.

It's done to humiliate Bond and make him feel physically and psycologically vulnerable and weak.

EDIT.

Ha, I note Mkb 'beat' me to it.

[Zorin Industries]

Although the naked torture scene is in the ROYALE novel there is no reason BOND has to be starkers at that point in the film - especially when you think of the other changes from page to screen.

It's done to humiliate Bond and make him feel physically and psycologically vulnerable and weak.

Yeah - but an ex-Navy commander who beds countless women would not be that bothered by getting his kit off. Granted, the humiliation is there from LE CHIFFRE, but I'm not sure Fleming (although it was the first Bond story) would see BOND being naked as awkward and embarrassing for his central character.

But I get what you mean.

[Loomis]

Hey Zorin, what do you make of my take on Le Chiffre?

Btw, anyone notice Le Chiffre's surpressed homo-erotic tendencies? He couldn't care less if his girlfriend got chopped up by Obanno but look at the way he oogles over a stripped naked Bond, starting with an emphatic "wow"...and then noting how Bond's "really taken care of your body"...and sighing that it would be "such a waste" to have his balls beaten.

Gay S&M for Le Chiffre, anyone?

It wouldn't have surprised to have the kinked Le Chiffre wanting some back door banging with Our James.

I agree. I thought it the first time I saw the film and still do now. It's subtle, it's slight, but it's there.

Maybe, maybe not. I personally don't think Le Chiffre has any gay tendencies. The only reason he doesn't spring to his woman's defence is because A, he's a coward, and B, she just isn't all that important him (no one is - being a Bond baddie, he's a selfish so-and-so with no real regard for others).

[HildebrandRarity]

Although the naked torture scene is in the ROYALE novel there is no reason BOND has to be starkers at that point in the film - especially when you think of the other changes from page to screen.

It's done to humiliate Bond and make him feel physically and psycologically vulnerable and weak.

Yeah - but an ex-Navy commander who beds countless women would not be that bothered by getting his kit off. Granted, the humiliation is there from LE CHIFFRE, but I'm not sure Fleming (although it was the first Bond story) would see BOND being naked as awkward and embarrassing for his central character.

But I get what you mean.

At that point he hasn't laid countless women. Whether it's Eon Bond or Book Bond, he's not a complete womanizer yet.

I think that scene is one of the more horrifying in the series...especially since he hears Vesper screaming. He has no idea if she's being raped or tortured or both.

There are bits in Dr No (tarantula in bed) and in LALD with the voodoo sacrifice scenes that are in the realm of 'horror', but for modern times, the cane chair scene takes the cake. Navy man or no, getting stripped in that disoriented scenario would be psycologically harrowing.

[Loomis]

At that point he hasn't laid countless women. Whether it's Eon Bond or Book Bond, he's not a complete womanizer yet.

It's pretty safe to say that he's already racked up an unusually high number of conquests, though, no? So, yes, I think Bond is a complete womaniser by the start of CASINO ROYALE, and has been since his teens. It's not as though he suddenly learns "game" once he becomes a Double-O.

[HildebrandRarity]

At that point he hasn't laid countless women. Whether it's Eon Bond or Book Bond, he's not a complete womanizer yet.

It's pretty safe to say that he's already racked up an unusually high number of conquests, though, no? So, yes, I think Bond is a complete womaniser by the start of CASINO ROYALE, and has been since his teens. It's not as though he suddenly learns "game" once he becomes a Double-O.

No, but once he's betrayed when fully "in love", he becomes totally detached...and that's what seperates what he was 'before' from what he becomes 'after'. At least that's my take, notwithstanding the number of notches on one's belt.

[MkB]

Although the naked torture scene is in the ROYALE novel there is no reason BOND has to be starkers at that point in the film - especially when you think of the other changes from page to screen.

It's done to humiliate Bond and make him feel physically and psycologically vulnerable and weak.

Yeah - but an ex-Navy commander who beds countless women would not be that bothered by getting his kit off. Granted, the humiliation is there from LE CHIFFRE, but I'm not sure Fleming (although it was the first Bond story) would see BOND being naked as awkward and embarrassing for his central character.

But I get what you mean.

I agree with that. In the movie, even more so, Bond's nakedness gives him the upper hand in a way. Given Craig's physique, he's more impressive this way than in his ragged clothes.
I also agree with Loomis about Le Chiffre not being that gay. Actually, the gay S&M elements in the novel were more from Bond's part than from Le chiffre's part

[ImTheMoneypenny]

Something I've just realised. In The World is not Enough, Elecktra says to Bond, "Do you know what happens when a man is strangled!?", then she sits on his lap. I never really understood this line, BUT after thinking about it, and researching... I came across this....

"It is well known that broken necks often produce strong erections. This was noticed at public hangings. People thought it was the strangling that did it, not the neck breaking, and have been doing it ever since."

When I saw that scene I knew what was meant right away. Not so much the broken neck though, but simply the strangulation. That's why erotic asphyxiation deaths sometimes happen and are usually men. The killer orgasm.

In case i'm utterly daft...what do you mean by 'the second part of..."? Were you referring to fanny as a bum...or have I missed something?

For educational purpose :

fanny
Noun
pl -nies Slang
1. Brit & Austral taboo the female genitals
2. Chiefly US & Canad the buttocks

This is why in the 70's the American all female glam rock group Fanny was just about scandalous in the UK.

Shhh! You have to admit that Plenty O'Toole sounds like wanking slang!

Well it is still a sexual innuendo, MHarkin. Plenty O'Toole suggests plenty of a tool, in other words a large penis.

This is a rather interesting one. We find out in Dr. No what Moneypenny prefers in the bedroom...

Bond: Moneypenny! What gives!?
Moneypenny: Me.... given an ounce of encouragement.

... oral sex?

Nope. "What gives?" means "what's up?" and when Moneypenny says she gives, she means she gives in, she will submit to Bond. Giving in this sense, is like "giving way". If you push a stuck door long enough it "gives" and you can open it.

I agree with DaveBond21. I've always thought Moneypenny was just saying given the encouragement by Bond, she'd give in to Bond.

[dee-bee-five]

Hey Zorin, what do you make of my take on Le Chiffre?

Btw, anyone notice Le Chiffre's surpressed homo-erotic tendencies? He couldn't care less if his girlfriend got chopped up by Obanno but look at the way he oogles over a stripped naked Bond, starting with an emphatic "wow"...and then noting how Bond's "really taken care of your body"...and sighing that it would be "such a waste" to have his balls beaten.

Gay S&M for Le Chiffre, anyone?

It wouldn't have surprised to have the kinked Le Chiffre wanting some back door banging with Our James.

I agree. I thought it the first time I saw the film and still do now. It's subtle, it's slight, but it's there.

Maybe, maybe not. I personally don't think Le Chiffre has any gay tendencies.

I think the jury will always remain out on that one unless either actor gives us a definitive account of how they played the scene. I would say, though, that Le Chiffre does seem to give the trussed up hunk of raw beef that is Bond a definite appraising glance...

On the other hand, Sanchez's bisexuality (at the very least) is much less ambiguous in this viewer's eyes...

[ImTheMoneypenny]

Hey Zorin, what do you make of my take on Le Chiffre?

Btw, anyone notice Le Chiffre's surpressed homo-erotic tendencies? He couldn't care less if his girlfriend got chopped up by Obanno but look at the way he oogles over a stripped naked Bond, starting with an emphatic "wow"...and then noting how Bond's "really taken care of your body"...and sighing that it would be "such a waste" to have his balls beaten.

Gay S&M for Le Chiffre, anyone?

It wouldn't have surprised to have the kinked Le Chiffre wanting some back door banging with Our James.

I agree. I thought it the first time I saw the film and still do now. It's subtle, it's slight, but it's there. Although the naked torture scene is in the ROYALE novel there is no reason BOND has to be starkers at that point in the film - especially when you think of the other changes from page to screen.

(I've started and added to threads about the gay thing and Bond before. Daniel Craig has recently been voted 4th most fit bloke in a leading gay online poll)

Agreed too.
The gay S&M touch is there also in the CR novel, to be true.
Although, Zorin, I disagree with Bond being unnecessary starkers during this scene: 1) given the nature of the torture and 2) given the fact that stripping Bond naked is also part of the torture process (as a mean to humiliate and unsettle the victim).

I don't think Le Chiffre is necessarily gay, he's just a kink. For sure he enjoys S&M but I think he's taunting Bond with the such a waste line. Trying to unnerve him.

Bond being stripped down tied to a chair, that's meant to throw him off balance. For one he's just been in a car accident, so he's already rattled. Then in an unfamiliar place, vulnerable, and tied to a chair. Honestly how many of you men wouldn't be rattled at that! And some of this set up isn't just for Bond it's for us readers/viewers. When I saw them movie with my best friend the minute he saw Bond tied to that chair naked he said "Oh noooo..". To him it was horrifying.

And though it may be me stretching here but to me, the novel version of CR (more so than the film) had shades of T.E. Lawrence's capture in Derra. When he is stripped naked, beaten(whipped on his genitals, mind you) and tortured until breaking. Every Englishman of that day read Seven Pillars or the shorter version Revolt In The Desert. I'm sure Fleming did.

Maybe it's just me.

[HildebrandRarity]

My most recent girfriend has noted how the Bond series seems to have a fixation with a man's balls, mainly Bond's balls:

Goldfinger - Laser beam slowly towards the groin making Bond sweat buckets

Thunderball - The title itself is a double entendre.

OHMSS - Bond's family crest has three gold balls.

DAF - Bambi and Thumper. One says "we're gonna have a ball" and the next instant the other one knees Connery in the balls. The knee-to-the-groin is edited out...but it's there.

FYEO - When one of Kristatos' men falls from his yatch in the keel-hauling sequence, the shark goes directly for the groin!

TWINE - The strangulation scene with Elektra stradling and stimulating Bond with her own groin.

CR - The scene we all know.

AC/DC: Big Balls.

[MkB]

And though it may be me stretching here but to me, the novel version of CR (more so than the film) had shades of T.E. Lawrence's capture in Derra. When he is stripped naked, beaten(whipped on his genitals, mind you) and tortured until breaking. Every Englishman of that day read Seven Pillars or the shorter version Revolt In The Desert. I'm sure Fleming did.

Maybe it's just me.

Very interesting parallell ImTheMoneypenny! I really think you may have found something there. I've read it, and though the possible influence on Fleming didn't occur to me, it seems very probable, now that you've mentioned it. Even the feelings Lawrence describes when he is tortured seem to have parallels in the CR (novel) scene.

[ImTheMoneypenny]

And though it may be me stretching here but to me, the novel version of CR (more so than the film) had shades of T.E. Lawrence's capture in Derra. When he is stripped naked, beaten(whipped on his genitals, mind you) and tortured until breaking. Every Englishman of that day read Seven Pillars or the shorter version Revolt In The Desert. I'm sure Fleming did.

Maybe it's just me.

Very interesting parallell ImTheMoneypenny! I really think you may have found something there. I've read it, and though the possible influence on Fleming didn't occur to me, it seems very probable, now that you've mentioned it. Even the feelings Lawrence describes when he is tortured seem to have parallels in the CR (novel) scene.

Thanks! Yeah I really didn't think about it myself until recently, going over Lawrence's works. T.E. Lawrence was a hero to many British men especially military men of that time. Various WWII P.O.W. books cite men referencing Lawrence. I would imagine Fleming would have read the book and been inspired somewhat. Who could fault him it's an extraordinary scene. The difference in a similar situation, Bond never broke or gave in. I'm sure, though can't be for certain, this reflected Fleming's fantasy perhaps he'd have held out, as Bond had, in Lawrence's circumstances.

Am I taking the fun out of this thread?

More balltalk er mentalk.

[Double-Oh Agent]

A couple of more names: Kissy (Suzuki), Solitaire (could be used as a double-entendre), Mary Goodnight, and Molly Warmflash.

DN -- Honey Ryder: "What are you doing here? Looking for shells?" Bond: "No, I'm just looking."

YOLT -- Ling: "Darling, I give you very best duck."

OHMSS -- Irma Bunt after Ruby writes her room number on Bond's thigh: "Is anything the matter Sir Hillary?" Bond: "Just a slight stiffness coming on--in the shoulder. Due to the altitude no doubt."

TSWLM -- Anya Amasova's codename: Agent XXX

AVTAK -- Jenny Flex: I love an early morning ride." Bond: "I'm an early riser myself."

Pola Ivanova: "The bubbles tickle my...Tchaikovsky!"

M -- Holly Goodhead: "James, take me around the world one more time."

G/E -- Bond regarding Xenia's death: "She always did enjoy a good squeeze."

TND -- Bond gives Moneypenny a cigar tube to which she replies: "I know exactly where to put that." (in reference to the Bill Clinton/Monica Lewinsky scandal.)

DAD -- After Bond mentions that he's an ornithologist, Jinx Johnson looks down at his groin and says: "Ornithologist, huh? Now there's a mouthful."

[Jaws0178]

DAD -- After Bond mentions that he's an ornithologist, Jinx Johnson looks down at his groin and says: "Ornithologist, huh? Now there's a mouthful."

I always thought that this one was the most blatantly obvious one

[DamnCoffee]

Yes. A very sick line. Horribly delivered, too.

[Conlazmoodalbrocra]

Yes. A very sick line. Horribly delivered, too.

What do you expect from a film by Lee Tamahori?!

[DamnCoffee]

Alot worser things.

[Conlazmoodalbrocra]

Alot worser things.

That's true...

[DamnCoffee]

It's also true that my comeback was rate pathetic.

Anyway...

Another one that sticks out for me is the brilliant line in the, The World is not Enough PTS.

"Would you like to check my figures?"
"Oh, I'm sure they're perfectly rounded!"

[Mr_Wint]

It's also true that my comeback was rate pathetic.

Anyway...

Another one that sticks out for me is the brilliant line in the, The World is not Enough PTS.

"Would you like to check my figures?"
"Oh, I'm sure they're perfectly rounded!"

That's not the first time they used the figure-joke.

Bond: "Sotheby's. Half a million pounds."
Magda: "You have a very good memory for faces"
Bond: "And figures..."

Oh, and another one from OP:
Magda: "I need refilling"
Bond: "Of course you do"

[Blofeld's Cat]

Alot worser things.

Can anything be "worser" ?

[DamnCoffee]

Nope, like I said, I had a crap comeback.

[Double-Oh Agent]

The one sexual connotation I can think of from a Timothy Dalton film occurs in Licence To Kill when he is sneaking around outside Franz Sanchez's office. As he rappels down from the casino roof, Bond uses his hand to push off a female statue's naked breast, perfectly cupping it in the process.

[001carus]

Super-obvious Tomorrow Never Dies one:

M: "...then pump her for information"
Moneypenny: "You'll just have to decide how much pumping is needed, James."

[Mr Teddy Bear]

The one sexual connotation I can think of from a Timothy Dalton film occurs in Licence To Kill when he is sneaking around outside Franz Sanchez's office. As he rappels down from the casino roof, Bond uses his hand to push off a female statue's naked breast, perfectly cupping it in the process.

Of course! That one would feel more at home in a Moore film rather than Licence to Kill!

[Judo chop]

I’ve posted this one a million times in a million other threads, but it needs to be mentioned. (I do think it gets missed by a lot of viewers.)

Rog: “If nothing else, at least I’ve laid your fears to rest…”

[DamnCoffee]

Here is something in The Spy Who Loved Me, that always makes me chuckle.

M: Moneypenny, where’s 007?
Monneypenny: He’s on a mission sir. In Austria.
M: Well, tell him to pull out. Immediately!

The next scene, we see Bond having sex with a woman.

Plus, The Man with the Golden Gun Lyrics refer to a penis.

"He has a powerful weapon"

"Love is required whenever he's hired.
It comes just before the kill. "

[MkB]

No wonder why so many scholars are interested in the James Bond phenomenon... It's a feast for analysts!

Readers of this thread might want, for instance, to cast an eye over this essay, "Cultural Imperialism and James Bond's penis", published as part of a book at Oxford University Press (no, really, Oxford University Press )

[DamnCoffee]

In From Russia With Love, Grants comment to Bond on the train."What a performance!" refers to Bonds sex with Tatiana, that Klebb filmed in his hotel suite. Bonds later comment to Tania, "He was right you know!", refers back to Grants comment about their sex.