170 replies to this topic

[Mister Asterix]

Not only white, but the character has to come from the UK...

That should be a given. A black British James Bond is infinitely more preferred than a white American James Bond.

[coco1997]

Mister E, i want change because change can be a good thing! it can be a bad also, but man if we dont try it out, we will never know now would we! It can be screwed like it can be brillant!

If it were up to you, Barack Obama would be the next James Bond.


NO.

[Shot Your Bolt]

Hell, I sure 25 years ago nobody thought we've a non-white President of the United States, but that just might come to past this year.

I knew somebody was going bring this up eventually and the comparison is invalid. The President is strictly a title and it's not another character, Bond is.

A title, much like 007.

[Mister E]

Hell, I sure 25 years ago nobody thought we've a non-white President of the United States, but that just might come to past this year.

I knew somebody was going bring this up eventually and the comparison is invalid. The President is strictly a title and it's not another character, Bond is.

A title, much like 007.

Jesus Christ, let me explain this again. The President is not a character, James Bond is. When YOU are the president, YOU are YOU. When you are an actor, you are PLAYING a CHARACTER. See the difference ? One role does not require to act as a different person.

[DLibrasnow]

I recall at the time of Die Another Day Pierce Brosnan was asked who he would pick as the next actor to play 007 and he picked black actor Colin Salmon.

I don't see any reason why Bond cannot be black.

Just three years ago I was having to defend Never Say Never Again because the Felix Leiter in the movie was black. Those same voices that were shouting that Fleix Leiter is a white character and how dare I support the portrayal of the character by a black actor have been strangely quiet on the subject since Jeffrey Wright was cast for Casino Royale -- strange that! I wonder why?!

[sharpshooter]

James Bond cannot be black. Because he is not.

There's nothing racial at all about it as far as I am concerned. It is just the way it is. James Bond is white, therefore I would have an issue with it.

[dee-bee-five]

I recall at the time of Die Another Day Pierce Brosnan was asked who he would pick as the next actor to play 007 and he picked black actor Colin Salmon.

I don't see any reason why Bond cannot be black.

Just three years ago I was having to defend Never Say Never Again because the Felix Leiter in the movie was black. Those same voices that were shouting that Fleix Leiter is a white character and how dare I support the portrayal of the character by a black actor have been strangely quiet on the subject since Jeffrey Wright was cast for Casino Royale -- strange that! I wonder why?!

But you're hardly comparing like-with-like, are you? James Bond is an iconic character, possibly the most famous fictional character in the world after Sherlock Holmes. Felix Leiter is a minor character who pops up occasionally in the adventures of said James Bond. Leiter is essentially a plot device and it doesn't matter that we've had older Leiters, younger ones, some with dark hair, some with light, most white, a couple of black Leiters, because, frankly, no-one really gives a toss about poor old Felix. But they do care about Bond. By the same token, everyone can happily accept a female M and I don't think there'd be any reservations about a black Moneypenny or Q. A black M once Dame Judi gives up would be fascinating. But Bond...?

The question isn't whether a black actor could play Bond. As I've said earlier, there are loads of terrific black actors who could do it. The question remains for me whether a black actor should play the role. Not because I want to deprive a black actor of the opportunity but because it would risk being (not that it necessarily would be) a leap that takes James Bond too far from his roots. On the other hand, as I also said earlier, the casting of a black actor would certainly be fascinating

Alas, the dead hand of political correctness - a cancer that has infected the world and nowhere more so than the UK - leaves one open to silly accusations of racism for raising such reservations. But, I'm sorry, for me the question of a black actor playing Bond poses more questions than it might answer and, personally, I should prefer the filmmakers to stick to the Bond more or less created (hair shade notwithstanding) on the printed page, just as I should always prefer to see a black actor playing Othello.

[double o ego]

James Bond is a white guy, period.

But he could easily be black. I'm not sayng that is should happen just that it could.

No because James Bond is old fashion white. Really, a black guy playing Bond is really obstuse. Felix Leiter I don't care too much about.

That's a rather obtuse reason to suggest why Bond could never be black. Old fashion white? Please, Bond could have been a black guy during Dalton's run or at the very least Brosnan's era. There was absoloutly nothing old fashioned white about Brosnan or even Craig for that matter that's for sure.

Well, because i see no reason why Bond cant be anything but white in this day and age, it will be change for the audience instead of each time seing Bond being a white guy! When Craig became Bond, people say that he was too this too that and if another community race becomes Bond, the frenzy is going to be 7 types worst than that Craig has known for the guy because people are protective of the character as i am! But do tell, will it be that much of a pain for your eyes only, if a black guy exuding charm and panache and style delivering his lines well and is a great actor doing everything perfectly, sounding and being true on screen, will that be that much of a problem! If the guy does that, all of that and is convincing, i for one can buy him in the role on screen easily! But he has to be totally believable up there and im sure that it can be made! What else isnt clear Mister E, that you would like further reassurance about?

Personality?? Lol! I know plenty of black guys who act more white than a lot of white people from the way they speak to the way they act and behave. Personality has nothing to do with skin colour.


What you are talking about is an empty shell that can be full filled by even Danny Devito, it's more then just line delivery. I am viewing Bond as a CHARACTER that Ian Fleming created with a fairly specific personality and that is why I am aganist the idea of him being black.

[double o ego]

With Daniel Craig as James Bond, once Mollaka enters the Nambutu Embassy, his James Bond has a choice of go in guns blazing or let Mollaka go.

For Adrian Lester’s James Bond the choice is different. Lester’s Bond’s best bet is to sneak in, kill a guard, take his uniform, and infiltrate. Going in guns blazing is a stupid choice for Lester’s Bond. For Craig’s Bond it is the only choice he has if he wants to get Mollaka.

I don't see it like this. When you jump over the fence of an embassy, with a gun in your hand, it doesn't matter if you're black or white: discretion is not an option any more. And anyway, taking over an embassy was also a stupid choice for Craig's Bond.

But... the situation and scrip would still change. Daniel Craig's Bond (white) knew that he had to jump the fence with guns blazing. For Adrian Lester's Bond (black) he could easily jump the fence without gun in hand and find a chap to knock out and snag his cloths.

Also, would all the bond girls be black? They would have to be

It would not be believable to have non-black women from all walks of life to fall for a black bond, no matter how big his gun might me

And yet a white guy can??Enough with the BS already. Fundamentally, the whole essense of cinematic Bond is retarded anyway, so by saying a black Bond will only attract black chicks is just stupid in and of itself. There are numerous ethnic minorities that can seduce women of various races and skin colours. It's not just about looks, it's about the swagger, which Bond has plenty of and to be perfectly honest,imo a black Bond with swagger is more believable than a white Bond with swagger.

I'm wondering if those of you who are all gung-ho about having a black Bond would be just as gung-ho about a Mexican/Spanish, Asian, Indian, Mediterranean or Arab Bond? Because after all you're saying that Bond being "white" is not part of what defines him as Bond (when myself and a number of other people see that as part of who he is).

That's an interesting question: I'm under the impression that the question about having precisely a black actor playing Bond is more influenced by the US culture / cinema than the UK one. As I said above, it would certainly be more "statistically logical" for a non Caucasian British Bond to be of Indian origin.
That said, again, I want a British (or credible as British) good looking guy with charisma playing Bond. I'm not really gung-ho about this guy being non Caucasian, but I wouldn't mind, since to me it's not what defines the character (being British is).

I hear you. However, I'm not for casting anyone who can do a good British accent. I want the actor himselfn to actually be British. His skin colour isn't an issue for me but his brtishness is.

[Sigma7]

Lets make the new Bond a half breed, issue closed

[double o ego]

You mean like Bob Marley? Lol!

[freemo]

Sometimes I think that if fans had to choose between:

a) someone with zero screen presence or charisma but who fits their ideal physical description of character to the letter.

or

b) an actor who could nail the part but is too short, too blond, or, God forbid, too black.

Most would choose "a". I don't mean like Mr. *, who puts up a logical case for his viewpoint. I mean the arguement that Bond being white is "tradition", as if Bond being white was like turkey for thanksgiving dinner. Come on, really?

[sharpshooter]

I mean the arguement that Bond being white is "tradition", as if Bond being white was like turkey for thanksgiving dinner. Come on, really?

Yes, really. Bond is white, that it is a very solid argument. Sure, Craig has blonde hair and the literary Bond has black hair. There are some things that can be broken and bent, and some just cannot be. That's just the way it is. A change of race is too drastic.

[Glockenspiel]

I heard rumors of Will Smith playing Captain America, which is just...no. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Will Smith. Fresh Prince of Bel-Air is the greatest TV show ever IMO, and I'm a big fan of his movies('cept Hancock, that movie sucked). But Captain America was created to contradict Germany's view of perfection. Here we have this white, blonde hair, blue-eyed super soldier, the kind that Germany looks up to as the perfect man, and he's fighting for America. Thats his entire character, and although he has changed(hell, he actually died and the costume is worn by Bucky, his sidekick), but thats the image he will always be in many people's mind...I mean thats the idea behind Captain America. To make him a black person would go against his character.

Which got me wondering about James Bond. He doesnt HAVE to be white. Black people can be British. I mean...how would you feel if he was black?

(I'm black by the way)

How would you feel if they cast a white actor to play (for instance) Louis Armstrong, Diana Ross, Nelson Mandela, Shaft or Barack Obama?
Those characters, real or not, are black.
Bond is a white man, that's a fact.
So I don't see any reasons why Bond could be portrayed by a black actor (no matter how good he'd be).
If you want to have a black secret agent in a movie (which would be interesting), then call him John Smith or Jack Wilson, but not James Bond...
That's exactly the same problem when people ask if Bond could be played by a woman.
The answer is no... for the reasons above (and of course no racism ou sexism at all).

[Sigma7]

i feel this forum is being unfair, let the new bond be a half breed midget, that would make me happy

[double o ego]

I heard rumors of Will Smith playing Captain America, which is just...no. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Will Smith. Fresh Prince of Bel-Air is the greatest TV show ever IMO, and I'm a big fan of his movies('cept Hancock, that movie sucked). But Captain America was created to contradict Germany's view of perfection. Here we have this white, blonde hair, blue-eyed super soldier, the kind that Germany looks up to as the perfect man, and he's fighting for America. Thats his entire character, and although he has changed(hell, he actually died and the costume is worn by Bucky, his sidekick), but thats the image he will always be in many people's mind...I mean thats the idea behind Captain America. To make him a black person would go against his character.

Which got me wondering about James Bond. He doesnt HAVE to be white. Black people can be British. I mean...how would you feel if he was black?

(I'm black by the way)

How would you feel if they cast a white actor to play (for instance) Louis Armstrong, Diana Ross, Nelson Mandela, Shaft or Barack Obama?
Those characters, real or not, are black.
Bond is a white man, that's a fact.
So I don't see any reasons why Bond could be portrayed by a black actor (no matter how good he'd be).
If you want to have a black secret agent in a movie (which would be interesting), then call him John Smith or Jack Wilson, but not James Bond...
That's exactly the same problem when people ask if Bond could be played by a woman.
The answer is no... for the reasons above (and of course no racism ou sexism at all).

I'd just like to say that, I'm not saying Bond SHOULD be made to be portrayed by a black actor BUT why do peole foolishly insist on presenting the same examples? The names of the black people you mentioned have their skin colour play a crucial part of who they are and what they've been through. The likes of Armstrong, Ross and especially Mandella have SUFFERED just because of the colour of their skin, using them as examples as to why James Bond could never be black is borderline offensive. It's nowhere near the same thing. Bond's skin colour, bottom line is inconsequential. Does it change the caharcter? Not really, at least not to the point where Bond's character varies. If a black actor is to play Bond, the script would call for adjustments, as has been the case for every actor thus far. You won't get a black actor trying to look japanese, they won't even put Brosnan or Craig through that. You work with what you've got. Essentially, as long as Bond is British, that's all that matters. By now, tradition is being applied loosely over the soon to be 22 official Bond films.

[Safari Suit]

No one could really think a black Bond would be as offensive as a white Mandela, could they?

[Publius]

How would you feel if they cast a white actor to play (for instance) Louis Armstrong, Diana Ross, Nelson Mandela, Shaft or Barack Obama?
Those characters, real or not, are black.
Bond is a white man, that's a fact.
So I don't see any reasons why Bond could be portrayed by a black actor (no matter how good he'd be).
If you want to have a black secret agent in a movie (which would be interesting), then call him John Smith or Jack Wilson, but not James Bond...
That's exactly the same problem when people ask if Bond could be played by a woman.
The answer is no... for the reasons above (and of course no racism ou sexism at all).

I guess the debate boils down to what you think defines Bond. I think being heterosexual, British, male, and of normal (to above average) height/built/looks all define the modern Bond far more than race does. Same goes for his profession and various personality traits.

I think Fleming's Bond was defined by race (understandable in the 1950s), and to a lesser extent the early cinematic Bond, but nowadays the line between the races has become considerably blurred, thanks largely to a smaller socioeconomic gap between them.

The reason the "why not a white guy to play Shaft?" arguments don't work is that, quite frankly, there are far more characters in popular fiction defined by their "blackness" than defined by their "whiteness." Part of this is political correctness, but a lot of it has to do with the lack of any unifying culture for whites. Not surprising given that they're the majority and feel less of a need to band together.

I still stand by my position: they shouldn't go looking for a black Bond just for the sake of change, shock value, or proving how "enlightened" they are... but they also shouldn't disqualify a potential because of his race. If Craig was black, he'd still be my favorite Bond and I'd still be glad they chose him over Clive Owen, Hugh Jackman, and Julian McMahon.

Oh, and as for other ethnicities, I don't care either, so long as (once again) he's only defined by being British. But I respect those who think Bond is defined enough by being white, and want to stick as closely to the source material as possible, that he should remain white. Really, it's a non-issue for me either way if they're able to get the other elements of Bond right.

[double o ego]

How would you feel if they cast a white actor to play (for instance) Louis Armstrong, Diana Ross, Nelson Mandela, Shaft or Barack Obama?
Those characters, real or not, are black.
Bond is a white man, that's a fact.
So I don't see any reasons why Bond could be portrayed by a black actor (no matter how good he'd be).
If you want to have a black secret agent in a movie (which would be interesting), then call him John Smith or Jack Wilson, but not James Bond...
That's exactly the same problem when people ask if Bond could be played by a woman.
The answer is no... for the reasons above (and of course no racism ou sexism at all).

I guess the debate boils down to what you think defines Bond. I think being heterosexual, British, male, and of normal (to above average) height/built/looks all define the modern Bond far more than race does. Same goes for his profession and various personality traits.

I think Fleming's Bond was defined by race (understandable in the 1950s), and to a lesser extent the early cinematic Bond, but nowadays the line between the races has become considerably blurred, thanks largely to a smaller socioeconomic gap between them.

The reason the "why not a white guy to play Shaft?" arguments don't work is that, quite frankly, there are far more characters in popular fiction defined by their "blackness" than defined by their "whiteness." Part of this is political correctness, but a lot of it has to do with the lack of any unifying culture for whites. Not surprising given that they're the majority and feel less of a need to band together.

I still stand by my position: they shouldn't go looking for a black Bond just for the sake of change, shock value, or proving how "enlightened" they are... but they also shouldn't disqualify a potential because of his race. If Craig was black, he'd still be my favorite Bond and I'd still be glad they choose him over Clive Owen, Hugh Jackman, and Julian McMahon.

Oh, and as for other ethnicities, I don't care either, so long as (once again) he's only defined by being British. But I respect those who think is defined enough by being white, and want to stick as closely to the source material as possible, that he should remain white. Really, it's a non-issue for me either way if they're able to get the other elements of Bond right.

I 100% agree with this.

[Sigma7]

Im for a british asian as bond, secret asian 007

[Mister E]

That's a rather obtuse reason to suggest why Bond could never be black. Old fashion white? Please, Bond could have been a black guy during Dalton's run or at the very least Brosnan's era. There was absoloutly nothing old fashioned white about Brosnan or even Craig for that matter that's for sure.

Craig is pretty much a modern day Bond but he is still Fleming's Bond in spirit. An old fashion, white, manly man. You are viewing Bond as an empty shell that anyone can slip into. I'll tell you when Bond could have been black, never.

Personality?? Lol! I know plenty of black guys who act more white than a lot of white people from the way they speak to the way they act and behave. Personality has nothing to do with skin colour.

No, you know ones you don't adhere to a sterotype of being black. Don't tell me about acting "black" or "white". Also don't tell me personality has nothing to do with skin colour, for most people it does in some way.

[NVT]

For fcuks sack, don't make Bond a african/indian/martian just for the sack of it.
If by chance in the future the producers come across an actor who has the ability to express the Bond characteristics and just happens not to be white then so be it. But if they do it to please the PC moaning crowed, the producers would of lost an even bigger slice of respect.

Also can people stop comparing a film character with real people who have made an actual difference to the world.

[Blonde Bond]

Well for starters I would not act like Cosmo Kramer. Would I be okay with it? Probably.

Would it be necessary to change the ethnicity of the character? Not really. It's not like Robin Hood, who ventured in different day and age. But I still don't see the character as black.

[Mister Asterix]

The reason the "why not a white guy to play Shaft?" arguments don't work is that, quite frankly, there are far more characters in popular fiction defined by their "blackness" than defined by their "whiteness."

Please can someone tell me just one major fictitious male hero that is more defined by his ‘whiteness’ than James Bond?

Please?

[Jim]

The reason the "why not a white guy to play Shaft?" arguments don't work is that, quite frankly, there are far more characters in popular fiction defined by their "blackness" than defined by their "whiteness."

Please can someone tell me just one major fictitious male hero that is more defined by his ‘whiteness’ than James Bond?

Please?

Caspar the Friendly Ghost?

I dunno; Sherlock Holmes?

[Glockenspiel]

How would you feel if they cast a white actor to play (for instance) Louis Armstrong, Diana Ross, Nelson Mandela, Shaft or Barack Obama?
Those characters, real or not, are black.
Bond is a white man, that's a fact.
So I don't see any reasons why Bond could be portrayed by a black actor (no matter how good he'd be).
If you want to have a black secret agent in a movie (which would be interesting), then call him John Smith or Jack Wilson, but not James Bond...
That's exactly the same problem when people ask if Bond could be played by a woman.
The answer is no... for the reasons above (and of course no racism ou sexism at all).

I guess the debate boils down to what you think defines Bond. I think being heterosexual, British, male, and of normal (to above average) height/built/looks all define the modern Bond far more than race does. Same goes for his profession and various personality traits.

I think Fleming's Bond was defined by race (understandable in the 1950s), and to a lesser extent the early cinematic Bond, but nowadays the line between the races has become considerably blurred, thanks largely to a smaller socioeconomic gap between them.

The reason the "why not a white guy to play Shaft?" arguments don't work is that, quite frankly, there are far more characters in popular fiction defined by their "blackness" than defined by their "whiteness." Part of this is political correctness, but a lot of it has to do with the lack of any unifying culture for whites. Not surprising given that they're the majority and feel less of a need to band together.

I still stand by my position: they shouldn't go looking for a black Bond just for the sake of change, shock value, or proving how "enlightened" they are... but they also shouldn't disqualify a potential because of his race. If Craig was black, he'd still be my favorite Bond and I'd still be glad they chose him over Clive Owen, Hugh Jackman, and Julian McMahon.

Oh, and as for other ethnicities, I don't care either, so long as (once again) he's only defined by being British. But I respect those who think Bond is defined enough by being white, and want to stick as closely to the source material as possible, that he should remain white. Really, it's a non-issue for me either way if they're able to get the other elements of Bond right.

Then, why not a black guy to play Harry Potter and Superman?
Why not a black guy to play Riggs and a white guy to play Murtaugh in Lethal Weapon 5? :-))
What's use of giving an answer to this last question?
Everybody knows : Riggs is a white man, and Murtaugh a black man.
It's the same for Bond, who has for years an identity, and who is a white man.
That demonstrates, according to me, on the end the vacuity of this thread.
If you want to have a super black spy on the screen (which would be, as I said, very interesting) create a new character!
What's is offensive is, actually, thinking that a black actor needs to portray a famous white character like Bond to be successful on screen!
I'm quite sure it's not true, and wonderful actors like Will Smith or Denzel Washington prove it to us each time they play a part.

[Judo chop]

I will remind everyone here that Craig was severely sunburnt during one of his scenes in Casino Royale.

[Mister Asterix]

What's use of giving an answer to this last question?
Everybody knows : Riggs is a white man, and Murtaugh a black man.

If I remember correctly, the part of Murtaugh was not originally written with a black man in mind.

The reason the "why not a white guy to play Shaft?" arguments don't work is that, quite frankly, there are far more characters in popular fiction defined by their "blackness" than defined by their "whiteness."

Please can someone tell me just one major fictitious male hero that is more defined by his ‘whiteness’ than James Bond?

Please?

Caspar the Friendly Ghost?

I dunno; Sherlock Holmes?

Tarzan, I would probably say even more so. Though I can’t think of anyone modern.

[Judo chop]

What's use of giving an answer to this last question?
Everybody knows : Riggs is a white man, and Murtaugh a black man.

If I remember correctly, the part of Murtaugh was not originally written with a black man in mind.

The reason the "why not a white guy to play Shaft?" arguments don't work is that, quite frankly, there are far more characters in popular fiction defined by their "blackness" than defined by their "whiteness."

Please can someone tell me just one major fictitious male hero that is more defined by his ‘whiteness’ than James Bond?

Please?

Caspar the Friendly Ghost?

I dunno; Sherlock Holmes?

Tarzan, I would probably say even more so. Though I can’t think of anyone modern.

King Arthur? Robin Hood? Peter Pan? Rocky! There's one: The Itallian Stallion.

Jaws? I don't think there are Great Black Sharks.

I don't really care. I don't think I need hard and fast reasons to say James Bond is white. I'm just throwing stuff out there.

[double o ego]

That's a rather obtuse reason to suggest why Bond could never be black. Old fashion white? Please, Bond could have been a black guy during Dalton's run or at the very least Brosnan's era. There was absoloutly nothing old fashioned white about Brosnan or even Craig for that matter that's for sure.

Craig is pretty much a modern day Bond but he is still Fleming's Bond in spirit. An old fashion, white, manly man. You are viewing Bond as an empty shell that anyone can slip into. I'll tell you when Bond could have been black, never.

Personality?? Lol! I know plenty of black guys who act more white than a lot of white people from the way they speak to the way they act and behave. Personality has nothing to do with skin colour.

No, you know ones you don't adhere to a sterotype of being black. Don't tell me about acting "black" or "white". Also don't tell me personality has nothing to do with skin colour, for most people it does in some way.

Interesting...I'm reading posts about casting a black bond means bond not being believable enough to seduce women of various ethnicities other than black chicks. People in this thread have already accosiated casting a black Bond comes with certain stereotypes, when really that wouldn't be the case with casting a black actor. Sure, personalities are influenced by skin colour but not all the time. Bond's character will forever be the same at least the parts that count, regardless of his colour.

As for Craig, I don't see that old fashioned english man. I see a modern and contemporary take on the character that brings Bond into the 21st century quite comfortably.