170 replies to this topic

[Shot Your Bolt]

I heard rumors of Will Smith playing Captain America, which is just...no. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Will Smith. Fresh Prince of Bel-Air is the greatest TV show ever IMO, and I'm a big fan of his movies('cept Hancock, that movie sucked). But Captain America was created to contradict Germany's view of perfection. Here we have this white, blonde hair, blue-eyed super soldier, the kind that Germany looks up to as the perfect man, and he's fighting for America. Thats his entire character, and although he has changed(hell, he actually died and the costume is worn by Bucky, his sidekick), but thats the image he will always be in many people's mind...I mean thats the idea behind Captain America. To make him a black person would go against his character.

Which got me wondering about James Bond. He doesnt HAVE to be white. Black people can be British. I mean...how would you feel if he was black?

(I'm black by the way)

[coco1997]

It would be a completely unnecessary change to the character. Sure, some of the six Bond actors don't exactly resemble each other, but they've all generally been white, early-middle aged European Americans and that fits the mold that Ian Fleming designed for Bond. Could a black man be Bond? Yes. Should a black man play Bond? No. You can change some of the genders/ethnicities of the supporting cast (like they've done with M and Felix) but changing Bond's ethnicity would be far too radical of a change, in my opinion.

Edited by coco1997, 07 October 2008 - 04:58 PM.

[Ravenstone]

I was thinking about this the other day, and I came to the conclusion that really, there's no reason why we can't have a black Bond. As long as Bond stays the public school educated ex-SBS MI6 assassin. The character has to stay the, same. Deviate from that and it stops being Bond. And the danger with a black actor deviating from that as Bond would be turning it into Shaft or something.

Not that there's anything wrong with Shaft. It's just not Bond, obviously.

So I'd have no problem with a black Bond at all.

A black Captain America - yes, I take your point on that. Mind you, a black Nick Fury took a bit of getting used to.

[Vauxhall]

There is absolutely no need for a black actor to play Bond, but fortunately I can never see it happening anyway.

[Judo chop]

It wouldn't be the worst way to screw with tradition, but it'd still be screwing with tradition.

I would need to hear a good reason for doing so, and I can't imagine any good reason. Any reasons that come to mind are bad reasons.

[trs007]

It's not the character. Literary characters all of a certain race. There is no need to change that. What next---Adam Sandler in MLK-the early years?

[Safari Suit]

Come on, lets be honest here; there's no real difference between hiring a black actor to play Bond and hiring one to play Felix.

[dee-bee-five]

What a fascinating question. I should feel... distracted while watching him. As distracted as I would if a woman were cast as Hamlet. Neither would have nothing to do with racism or sexism, but just a niggling feeling that something was out of kilter and not quite right. And no matter how much the PR department denied it, I would never shake off the suspicion his casting had something to do with the dead hand of political correctness. And that's a shame because there are some terrific black actors more than capable of playing James Bond.

[Scottlee]

I'm totally against it and I don't mind saying so.

I've got no problem with a blonde Bond because that doesn't seem like too big a change. Bond going black though would be a bit too 'out there' for me.

[TheSaint]

God, this again? Can we please stop beating the same dead horses?

[dee-bee-five]

God, this again? Can we please stop beating the same dead horses?

It's the first time I've seen this question posed, so, for me, it's an interesting thread.

[trs007]

Come on, lets be honest here; there's no real difference between hiring a black actor to play Bond and hiring one to play Felix.

I disagree. BOND is the central character of the film and thus needs to be true to form. Secondary characters, and they are all secondary to Bond--there is more interpretation allowed--black F.L., female M, etc.

[Safari Suit]

Philosophically, morally or whatever it's the same thing.

[Judo chop]

Philosophically, morally or whatever it's the same thing.

Of course.

However, artistically, or traditionally, it's not the same thing.

This is film, not a civil-rights litigation. In film, and especially in a series as long running as Bond, art and tradition matter. We don't need to have evidence of a moral or philosophical violation in order to say 'no' to the suggestion.

[dee-bee-five]

Philosophically, morally or whatever it's the same thing.

Of course.

However, artistically, or traditionally, it's not the same thing.

This is film, not a civil-rights litigation. In film, and especially in a series as long running as Bond, art and tradition matter.

Agreed. It would be the same if someone proposed a white Othello or Shaft. Doubtless there are plenty of white actors who could tackle those roles, whether they should unless it's for some novelty value is another question.

[dinovelvet]

Well, look at how some idiots reacted when they hired a guy with blonde hair

Honestly I think it would be stunt/gimmicky/attention-grabbing casting. It'll become the sole focus of the movie - "OMG Bond is BLACK!". There'll be articles in The Guardian debating it, it'll become "the controversial new Bond movie". So for that reason, I say no. Though personally I wouldn't mind a black actor, if its the RIGHT actor.

[Safari Suit]

Philosophically, morally or whatever it's the same thing.

Of course.

However, artistically, or traditionally, it's not the same thing.

This is film, not a civil-rights litigation. In film, and especially in a series as long running as Bond, art and tradition matter. We don't need to have evidence of a moral or philosophical violation in order to say 'no' to the suggestion.

Of course not. But you wouldn't need it to say "no" to the suggestion with Felix either.

[Shot Your Bolt]

It's not the character. Literary characters all of a certain race. There is no need to change that. What next---Adam Sandler in MLK-the early years?

MLK was a black man who stood for black civil rights. Only a black person could play that role, obviously.

[Loomis]

It's not the character. Literary characters all of a certain race. There is no need to change that. What next---Adam Sandler in MLK-the early years?

MLK was a black man who stood for black civil rights. Only a black person could play that role, obviously.

Well, don't forget that Alec Guinness plays an Indian in A PASSAGE TO INDIA. I know that the idea of a white actor "blacking up" to play MLK is rather horrible and conjures images of things that ought to have been left behind decades ago, but on the other hand shouldn't we go by the principle that any actor should be able to play any role? Black actor as white character, gay actor as straight character, straight actor as gay character, etc., etc.?

[coco1997]

How about Robert Downey Jr. in "Tropic Thunder"?

[Shot Your Bolt]

How about Robert Downey Jr. in "Tropic Thunder"?

That was great actually, but in a comedic, satiric way. I can imagine if Spike Lee was making a MLK film much the same way he did with Malcolm X, he would defintely find a black actor >_>

[Cody]

Just depends on the actor.

[MkB]

We recently had a very similar discussion on the board (and many others before, I guess), so in a word here's my opinion for those who'd have missed it: before Craig, I wanted the actor to stick to the Bond stereotype. Now I've accepted a blond Bond, and it radically changed my mind. I don't care for the details, I just want a good looking guy with charisma.
And finally, I don't think the skin color is central to Bond's character. Being British is.

But if the next actor to play Bond was black, I'd be slightly annoyed, since CBn and the whole Bond fandom would go insane for some time, making the CraigNotBond bashing look like a panegyric, and it could get really boring...

[jaguar007]

This same discussion took place a few weeks ago

http://debrief.comma...showtopic=49392

Perhaps a moderator should merge the two threads.

[dee-bee-five]

It's not the character. Literary characters all of a certain race. There is no need to change that. What next---Adam Sandler in MLK-the early years?

MLK was a black man who stood for black civil rights. Only a black person could play that role, obviously.

Well, don't forget that Alec Guinness plays an Indian in A PASSAGE TO INDIA. I know that the idea of a white actor "blacking up" to play MLK is rather horrible and conjures images of things that ought to have been left behind decades ago, but on the other hand shouldn't we go by the principle that any actor should be able to play any role? Black actor as white character, gay actor as straight character, straight actor as gay character, etc., etc.?

In an ideal world, yes. But the trouble would be, as others have pointed out, that the casting would completely eclipse the film itself. And it would look like stunt casting, even if it were not. And I do believe that there are some lines which, while they can be crossed, don't have to be. If one were, say, making a film about Margaret Thatcher, one could go the whole hog and cross every racial/gender restriction by casting Samuel L. Jackson in the role. He's a damned good actor, but I don't believe there are many people who would buy Samuel L. Jackson as Margaret Thatcher. Whoopi Goldberg could play Elizabeth I, but I'm not sure she ever should. By the same token, I'm not sure a gay actor should play Bond. Not because I'm homophobic (obviously) but because, say, Rupert Everett or John Barrowman's sexuality would overshadow the film.

Having said all that, if a black actor were to be cast as Bond, it could be very interesting. But there's a saying I like to the effect that if it's not necessary to change, it's necessary not to change. That's a philosophy I wholeheartedly agree with and I'm not sure this is a change which would ever be necessary.

[Judo chop]

Philosophically, morally or whatever it's the same thing.

Of course.

However, artistically, or traditionally, it's not the same thing.

This is film, not a civil-rights litigation. In film, and especially in a series as long running as Bond, art and tradition matter. We don't need to have evidence of a moral or philosophical violation in order to say 'no' to the suggestion.

Of course not. But you wouldn't need it to say "no" to the suggestion with Felix either.

No, you certainly wouldn't. But you'd need something. And I don't think artistry or tradition is something you can appeal to in the case of Felix, simply because he's not, and never has been, a primary character in the films. I think the farther you move from the lead character, the farther you can wander from the 'key traits'.

Case in point, I think the notion of a female 'M' toes the line. Looking back on the results, perhaps it stepped over a wee bit.

[ACE]

.... some of the six Bond actors don't exactly resemble each other, but they've all generally been white, early-middle aged European Americans ...

!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[The Richmond Spy]

In response to the title of the thread: It would depend on who it is...and even then I wouldn't know until I actually saw the film.

[HildebrandRarity]

Where's Jim? I'd like to get his opinion.

And, why don't the mods merge this in one of the other similar threads on this topic.

[RJJB]

James Bond is white. He is not Latin, Black, Middle Eastern, Asian, or any other ethinic race. If a producer wants to have series with a black secret agent, let him create a fresh one. But do not do so on the coattails of James Bond. As someone mentioend erlier, it's a literary character whose ethicity is established. It's not racism to keep the character white.

Interesting view: here in Chicago, there is an annual production of A Christmas Carol.
In the past years, any ethnic actor has been eligible for the various roles, and have been cast. But earlier last year, when The Color Purple was been cast in the city, the call went out for Black actors only. Diversity is fine, but let's not let it get involved in everything.