Jump to content


This is a read only archive of the old forums
The new CBn forums are located at https://quarterdeck.commanderbond.net/

 
Photo

Is it me or has the Brosnan hate become absurd?


210 replies to this topic

#91 Gabriel

Gabriel

    Lieutenant

  • Crew
  • PipPip
  • 574 posts
  • Location:London

Posted 14 September 2008 - 02:17 PM

Royal Dalton. Nice work!! :(

People often talk about the bashing of Brosnan being tied into the Daniel Craig issue, but forget the Dalton issue. There are a lot of Dalton fans out there who were pee-ed off that Dalton never got his third film. Personally, Brosnan didn't seem even vaguely like Bond for the first half of GoldenEye to me. But then again, I think GoldenEye is a pile of politically correct, overrated garbage! Of course, it was also put around by people, including Martin Campbell, that Dalton's Bonds were rubbish to Big Up GoldenEye.

I always remember the near-despair I felt watching Brosnan defy gravity in the opening of GoldenEye, jumping after a plane, then the misery of the champagne bottle seduction of that irritating PC 1990s driving test woman. Everything that had been achieved in Dalton's tenure was seemingly reversed back to Roger Moore's era, except it wasn't funny. There's a certain irony to Daniel Craig's Bond: he's continuing what Dalton started. A lot of us see Brozza's films as a waste of time and that we should have had a film in the style of QoS or CR back in 1991.

There's a topic elsewhere asking whether Brosnan could have done Bonds in the style of CR and QoS. The answer is a clear no. They don't play to Brosnan's strengths. On the other hand, could you imagine Connery, Lazenby, Moore or Dalton in Casino Royale or Quantum of Solace? Actually yes. And that goes for Roger too, in his earlier days.

As for Brozza's films in general, they're still symptomatic of people's lingering perception of the film series back then. Yes GE does probably get rated higher than From Russia With Love. But when FRWL came out, its target audience was grown ups with kids as a secondary issue. By the time I was growing up in the Roger Moore era, Bond had a massive children's following (kids with 007 digital watches that bleeped the 007 theme tune were near deities at primary schools!) in many ways being seen more as a family movie franchise.

When Licence to Kill bagged a 15 rating, signaled big changes for the series, refocusing it in the firection of an older audience. Unfortunately, years of legal action postponed the series and the audience moved on. Additionally, Batman which debuted the same summer as LTK changed the marketing model for all future Hollywood movies.

Shot your bolt on From Russia With Love:

THAT said, for a good 40 minutes are so it feels like a travel log, where Bond kinda walks around, the Bond music playing in the most random places(checking his bedroom? HOW EXCITING AND SUSPENSEFUL! HIT THE BOND THEME!), and Red Grant/Random spy with glasses walks around too. Bond FINALLY meets Titaina like 55 minutes into the movie and then it starts getting interesting. The train scenes onward are great, although I still laugh at the whole helicopter scene.


Remember when FRWL was made. In that period, just coming out of post-war austerity, ordinary people in the UK didn't travel that much. Lingering shots of places like Istanbul and all the travelogue material was fantastic for audiences back then. You couldn't just take a trip to Paris on the Chunnel or go on the kind of holiday where you can gangbang a random drunk British girl in an Ibiza toilet back then!

And, yeah, Bond searches his room. Again, FRWL was setting up aspects of Bond's life that we all take for granted in an era where Bond films are on TV several times a year!

Brosnan has done himself no favours where Bond is concerned and the perception of his films will be tarnished for a good few years to come. Maybe after Daniel Craig's tenure is over and the series is revamped with another new actor people might look back on them more kindly!

Edited by Gabriel, 14 September 2008 - 02:20 PM.


#92 dodge

dodge

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 5068 posts
  • Location:USA

Posted 14 September 2008 - 02:23 PM

I just think the backlash against Brosnan is confusing seeing as pre-Craig he was adored on these boards. I remember back when Die Another Day wa sdeclared to be an amazing Bond film by a large amount of the community, now it's declared to be the worst of the series.

It is in fact an enjoyable film with some fantastic Cuba and Korea scenes.


You're the only one so far to address my question: What was it like, in the old days, on these boards? I'd be shocked if, when GE opened, there wasn't an enormous wave of approval and relief--at Bond, finally, getting back to the business of Bond: dangerous and fun at once.

#93 Shot Your Bolt

Shot Your Bolt

    Sub-Lieutenant

  • Crew
  • Pip
  • 158 posts

Posted 14 September 2008 - 02:44 PM

Remember when FRWL was made. In that period, just coming out of post-war austerity, ordinary people in the UK didn't travel that much. Lingering shots of places like Istanbul and all the travelogue material was fantastic for audiences back then. You couldn't just take a trip to Paris on the Chunnel or go on the kind of holiday where you can gangbang a random drunk British girl in an Ibiza toilet back then!

And, yeah, Bond searches his room. Again, FRWL was setting up aspects of Bond's life that we all take for granted in an era where Bond films are on TV several times a year!


I respect the hell out of FRWL, its just not for me I guess. I'm sure back then it was lightning quick, but now I find myself having to push myself to watch it up til the train scenes, and thats when it gets really good.

And I don't feel like I'm making excuses for Brosnan by saying he had crappy scripts, etc. He DID. Its the truth. I wouldn't do the same thing for Dalton, because he just sucks.

"ZOMG YOU INSULTED FLEMING BOND/DALTON, U NO TRU BOND FAN LULZ!"

Get the :( out with that elitist :).

#94 Publius

Publius

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 3225 posts
  • Location:Miami

Posted 14 September 2008 - 02:57 PM

People often talk about the bashing of Brosnan being tied into the Daniel Craig issue, but forget the Dalton issue. There are a lot of Dalton fans out there who were pee-ed off that Dalton never got his third film.

Good point. If only the Internet was then what it is now, we might have evidence that Dalton received the same treatment (probably worse) that Brosnan is getting now. And I won't even get into how Lazenby would have been smeared.

If I had to rank the Bond actors by how much vitriol they've had to deal with, Brosnan would rank second to last, above only Connery (and maybe tied with Moore). Not a surprise, considering he's been strongly associated with the role for a whopping 20 years: 1986 (when he was first cast) to 2006 (when his controversial replacement finally debuted).

You're the only one so far to address my question: What was it like, in the old days, on these boards? I'd be shocked if, when GE opened, there wasn't an enormous wave of approval and relief--at Bond, finally, getting back to the business of Bond: dangerous and fun at once.

Check the Brosnan forum for a thread (sorry zencat :( ) hailing DAD as possibly the best Bond movie ever. Other than that, we can only speculate, because this website wasn't around for the other Brosnan movies and the Internet as a whole was in its infancy when GE opened.

#95 dodge

dodge

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 5068 posts
  • Location:USA

Posted 14 September 2008 - 03:11 PM

People often talk about the bashing of Brosnan being tied into the Daniel Craig issue, but forget the Dalton issue. There are a lot of Dalton fans out there who were pee-ed off that Dalton never got his third film.

Good point. If only the Internet was then what it is now, we might have evidence that Dalton received the same treatment (probably worse) that Brosnan is getting now. And I won't even get into how Lazenby would have been smeared.

If I had to rank the Bond actors by how much vitriol they've had to deal with, Brosnan would rank second to last, above only Connery (and maybe tied with Moore). Not a surprise, considering he's been strongly associated with the role for a whopping 20 years: 1986 (when he was first cast) to 2006 (when his controversial replacement finally debuted).

You're the only one so far to address my question: What was it like, in the old days, on these boards? I'd be shocked if, when GE opened, there wasn't an enormous wave of approval and relief--at Bond, finally, getting back to the business of Bond: dangerous and fun at once.

Check the Brosnan forum for a thread (sorry zencat :( ) hailing DAD as possibly the best Bond movie ever. Other than that, we can only speculate, because this website wasn't around for the other Brosnan movies and the Internet as a whole was in its infancy when GE opened.


Aha, thanks for clarifying. Yes, I've read Zen's review. And the reason I never pounce on it is because I myself was one of Brozza's biggest fans with GE through TND (though I never did care for Jonathan Pryce's Carver). With TWINE, the yawn factor for me began. But I never felt rabid about DAD until I came to this website. I've gone through the entire spectrum of reactions to Brozza's Bond...as I suspect many others have too.

#96 jaguar007

jaguar007

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 5608 posts
  • Location:Portland OR

Posted 14 September 2008 - 05:13 PM

In 1995 I was a regular on the alt.fan.jamesbond newsgroup. Most people on the forum at that time were glad Bond was back, liked Brosnan but most also liked Dalton. I don't recall much Dalton bashing in 95 at all (with the exception of Kimberly Last).

#97 CM007

CM007

    Sub-Lieutenant

  • Crew
  • Pip
  • 298 posts

Posted 14 September 2008 - 05:28 PM

Royal Dalton. Nice work!! :(

People often talk about the bashing of Brosnan being tied into the Daniel Craig issue, but forget the Dalton issue. There are a lot of Dalton fans out there who were pee-ed off that Dalton never got his third film. Personally, Brosnan didn't seem even vaguely like Bond for the first half of GoldenEye to me. But then again, I think GoldenEye is a pile of politically correct, overrated garbage! Of course, it was also put around by people, including Martin Campbell, that Dalton's Bonds were rubbish to Big Up GoldenEye.

I always remember the near-despair I felt watching Brosnan defy gravity in the opening of GoldenEye, jumping after a plane, then the misery of the champagne bottle seduction of that irritating PC 1990s driving test woman. Everything that had been achieved in Dalton's tenure was seemingly reversed back to Roger Moore's era, except it wasn't funny. There's a certain irony to Daniel Craig's Bond: he's continuing what Dalton started. A lot of us see Brozza's films as a waste of time and that we should have had a film in the style of QoS or CR back in 1991.

There's a topic elsewhere asking whether Brosnan could have done Bonds in the style of CR and QoS. The answer is a clear no. They don't play to Brosnan's strengths. On the other hand, could you imagine Connery, Lazenby, Moore or Dalton in Casino Royale or Quantum of Solace? Actually yes. And that goes for Roger too, in his earlier days.

As for Brozza's films in general, they're still symptomatic of people's lingering perception of the film series back then. Yes GE does probably get rated higher than From Russia With Love. But when FRWL came out, its target audience was grown ups with kids as a secondary issue. By the time I was growing up in the Roger Moore era, Bond had a massive children's following (kids with 007 digital watches that bleeped the 007 theme tune were near deities at primary schools!) in many ways being seen more as a family movie franchise.

When Licence to Kill bagged a 15 rating, signaled big changes for the series, refocusing it in the firection of an older audience. Unfortunately, years of legal action postponed the series and the audience moved on. Additionally, Batman which debuted the same summer as LTK changed the marketing model for all future Hollywood movies.

Shot your bolt on From Russia With Love:

THAT said, for a good 40 minutes are so it feels like a travel log, where Bond kinda walks around, the Bond music playing in the most random places(checking his bedroom? HOW EXCITING AND SUSPENSEFUL! HIT THE BOND THEME!), and Red Grant/Random spy with glasses walks around too. Bond FINALLY meets Titaina like 55 minutes into the movie and then it starts getting interesting. The train scenes onward are great, although I still laugh at the whole helicopter scene.


Remember when FRWL was made. In that period, just coming out of post-war austerity, ordinary people in the UK didn't travel that much. Lingering shots of places like Istanbul and all the travelogue material was fantastic for audiences back then. You couldn't just take a trip to Paris on the Chunnel or go on the kind of holiday where you can gangbang a random drunk British girl in an Ibiza toilet back then!

And, yeah, Bond searches his room. Again, FRWL was setting up aspects of Bond's life that we all take for granted in an era where Bond films are on TV several times a year!

Brosnan has done himself no favours where Bond is concerned and the perception of his films will be tarnished for a good few years to come. Maybe after Daniel Craig's tenure is over and the series is revamped with another new actor people might look back on them more kindly!



Well LTK was more like a bad episode of Miami Vice so much so that Audiences stayed away from seeing it and don´t give me the Oh Batman and TLC was out that summer...both films were released 8 weeks b4 LTK.Also did ye Dalton fanatics know the TLD had the fastest ever drop off for a Bond movie were on it´s second week at the Box office it dropped 75% and that LTK had the lowest gross of all Bond movies and well I seem to remember that Dalton had an Aston Martin with Skies and Rockets....Funny how the Dalton fanatics seem to forget that one

The only reason why Dalton fanatics don´t like Brosnan is because he didn´t get to make his third Bond movie....that´s all......

Oh and Dalton didn´t pave the way for Daniel Feckin Craig...it was Jason Bourne....without Bourne there would be no Daniel Craig because Dalton´s Bond was not sucessful....

#98 Gabriel

Gabriel

    Lieutenant

  • Crew
  • PipPip
  • 574 posts
  • Location:London

Posted 14 September 2008 - 05:31 PM

Shot your Bolt

Get the out with that elitist .


Um . . . manners? Was that aimed at me? Because if it was clearly you'd be a short squat person that lives under bridges and feeds off children!

Dude, you've been on this site for 13 days and the tone of a lot of your posts is very aggressive. Chill out, huh? This isn't a Doctor Who forum! :(

Edited by Gabriel, 14 September 2008 - 05:32 PM.


#99 CM007

CM007

    Sub-Lieutenant

  • Crew
  • Pip
  • 298 posts

Posted 14 September 2008 - 05:36 PM

Love him or Loath him Pierce Brosnan saved the Bond Franchise.

Which is quite ironic, considering his films made less profit overall than Dalton's.




Prove it....I dare ya.I have the fiqures ready and waitin

2005 Sony Bond Franchise Revenue Data Reporting:

Bankable Bonds:


#4

T. Dalton x3.0 Factor

2 Films

Dalton Films Bankable Factor: +4.25

Dalton Films Profit Factor: +1.76

Bankability Index Factor: +3.0


#5

P. Brosnan x2.65 Factor

4 Films

Brosnan Films Bankable Factor: +3.79

Brosnan Films Profit Factor: +1.5

Bankability Index Factor: +2.65


Studio Income Generated Through Box Office Receipts

3. Timothy Dalton $52,200,000 (2 Films)

4. Pierce Brosnan $51,200,000 (4 Films)


Studio Income Generated Per Film Through Box Office Receipts

3. Timothy Dalton $26,100,000

5. Pierce Brosnan $12,800,000


2005 Inflated Studio Income Generated Through Box Office Receipts

4. Timothy Dalton $85,370,000 (2 Films)

5. Pierce Brosnan $64,920,000 (4 Films)


2005 Inflated Studio Income Generated Per Film Through Box Office Receipts

4. Timothy Dalton $42,685,000

6. Pierce Brosnan $16,230,000



Here you go...All the Box Office recipts adjusted to inflation..............Oh that gotta hurt

UK Release Date US Release Date Film Actor US
admissions,
millions US gross, $
[adjusted 2005] Worldwide gross, $
[adjusted 2005]
1962-10-05 1963-05-08 Dr. No (1962) Connery 19.0 $16.06
[$121.9] $59.60
[$461.9]
1963-10-10 1964-04-08 From Russia With Love (1963) Connery 26.8 $24.80
[$168.2] $78.90
[$597.3]
1964-09-17 1964-12-22 Goldfinger (1964) Connery 54.9 $51.10
[$346.5] $124.90
[$847.0]
1965-12-29 1965-12-21 Thunderball (1965) Connery 74.8 $63.60
[$398.1] $141.20
[$883.6]
1967-06-12 1967-06-13 You Only Live Twice (1967) Connery 36.2 $43.10
[$230.0] $111.60
[$595.5]
1969-12-18 1969-12-18 On Her Majesty's Secret Service (1969) Lazenby 16.0 $22.80
[$106.0] $82.00
[$381.3]
1971-12-30 1971-12-17 Diamonds Are Forever (1971) Connery 24.6 $43.80
[$172.8] $116.00
[$457.7]
1973-07-06 1973-06-27 Live And Let Die (1973) Moore 20.1 $35.40
[$126.6] $161.00
[$578.7]
1974-12-18 1974-12-18 The Man With The Golden Gun (1974) Moore 11.2 $21.00
[$72.3] $97.60
[$336.2]
1977-07-13 1977-08-03 The Spy Who Loved Me (1977) Moore 21.0 $46.80
[$136.6] $185.40
[$541.2]
1979-06-26 1979-07-13 Moonraker (1979) Moore 28 $703.00
[$185.3] $210.30
[$554.3]
1981-06-24 1981-06-26 For Your Eyes Only (1981) Moore 22.4 $62.30
[$128.3] $195.30
[$457.4]
1983-12-14 1983-10-07 Never Say Never Again (1983) Connery 17.6 $55.50
[$107.50] $160.00
[$267.20]
1983-06-06 1983-06-10 Octopussy (1983) Moore 21.6 $67.90
[$140.3] $183.70
[$387.5]
1985-06-12 1985-05-24 A View To A Kill (1985) Moore 14.2 $50.30
[$92.2] $152.40
[$279.5]
1987-06-29 1987-07-31 The Living Daylights (1987) Dalton 13.1 $51.18
[$85.2] $191.20
[$318.3]
1989-06-13 1989-07-14 Licence To Kill (1989) Dalton 8.7 $34.67
[$56.6] $156.20
[$254.9]
1995-12-24 1995-11-17 GoldenEye (1995) Brosnan 24.7 $106.40
[$159.5] $348.90
[$528.9]
1997-12-12 1997-12-19 Tomorrow Never Dies (1997) Brosnan 27.3 $125.30
[$177.7] $339.34
[$491.6]
1999-11-22 1999-11-19 The World Is Not Enough (1999) Brosnan 27.3 $126.94
[$163.3] $234.89
[$501.8]
2002-11-20 2002-11-22 Die Another Day (2002) Brosnan 27.3 $160.94
[$180.6] $431.97
[$511.9]
2006-11-16 2006-11-17 Casino Royale (2006) Craig 27.3 $167.45
[n/a] $594.24
[n/a]


Notice LTK had 8.7million US admissions....TLD had 13.1..Oh massive drop in Revenue.Oh that gotta hurt....

Notice Brosnans.....27.3 which increased from 24.1 from GE-TND and maintained till DAD.Also of note those figures for TND was in competition with the biggest movie of all time Titanic...also notice that DC CR admission were in competition with Happy Feet...so do notice the trend....Also notice that DC has the same admission as PB no more no less so what does that tell ya.....DC saving the franchise.Nope............it means that PB was not less popular that DC but was more popular than TD....whom I like as Bond.

#100 Royal Dalton

Royal Dalton

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 4542 posts

Posted 14 September 2008 - 05:40 PM

And his films still made less profit than Dalton's.

#101 Publius

Publius

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 3225 posts
  • Location:Miami

Posted 14 September 2008 - 06:52 PM

In 1995 I was a regular on the alt.fan.jamesbond newsgroup. Most people on the forum at that time were glad Bond was back, liked Brosnan but most also liked Dalton. I don't recall much Dalton bashing in 95 at all (with the exception of Kimberly Last).

But it seems like it's much easier for just anyone to go online nowadays and voice their opinion, poorly formed and vulgarly expressed as it may be. Hell, the site that shall not be named was launched by two or three teenage Brosnan groupies, if memory serves me correctly, yet mainstream media around the world latched onto it and magnified the opposition into some "force" that it wasn't.

Well LTK was more like a bad episode of Miami Vice so much so that Audiences stayed away from seeing it and don´t give me the Oh Batman and TLC was out that summer...both films were released 8 weeks b4 LTK.

Batman came out 3 weeks before LTK. Considering it performed almost as well as TDK is now (going by admissions here), LTK didn't stand a chance. Doesn't hurt that the film wasn't marketed very well.

Overseas it did much better, of course. The US was where Bond was tanking so quickly. He was "just" losing steam everywhere else (indeed, there was even a positive bump internationally with Dalton).

Also did ye Dalton fanatics know the TLD had the fastest ever drop off for a Bond movie were on it´s second week at the Box office it dropped 75% and that LTK had the lowest gross of all Bond movies and well I seem to remember that Dalton had an Aston Martin with Skies and Rockets....Funny how the Dalton fanatics seem to forget that one

TLD also did better than Moore's AVTAK (48m in WW ticket sales versus 42m), which in turn didn't do much better than LTK (39m). Connery's NSNA did 50m in admissions and Moore's TMWTGG did 51m. Compare all those to the 80m+ most Bond movies had been doing since the beginning. 6 of the 8 least successful Bond movies were released in the 1980s. There was a lot more going on than just Dalton, and you should know that if you're going to be so loud and negative with your opinions.

The only reason why Dalton fanatics don´t like Brosnan is because he didn´t get to make his third Bond movie....that´s all......

I like Brosnan. I wish his movies were better. I wish he made more, just like I wish Lazenby and Dalton had made more. Don't talk about these "factions" as if they really exist.

Oh and Dalton didn´t pave the way for Daniel Feckin Craig...it was Jason Bourne....without Bourne there would be no Daniel Craig because Dalton´s Bond was not sucessful....

:(

One of these days you're going to have to do more than just repeatedly say that. Go to the Craig forum and start (or bump) a thread to actually make an argument, otherwise spare us the bumper sticker slogans. Seriously, I'd gladly participate in such a debate. Hopefully it'll be a civil, enlightening discussion.

And his films still made less profit than Dalton's.

I don't think he realizes you're talking about profit, not revenue. CM007, Profit = Revenue - Cost. Brosnan's movies made more money at the box office, but they cost so much to make that they were less profitable.

#102 HildebrandRarity

HildebrandRarity

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 4361 posts

Posted 14 September 2008 - 06:59 PM

The transient Bond fans are a fickle crowd. Those who loved Moore (then), think his movies are a joke (now). Those who wanted Dalton out (then), missed his acting chops (in retrospect). Those who were on the Brosnan bandwagon, got off it very quickly as soon as the positive news surrounding the media screenings in London and New York for CR came gushing in. Those who hated Craig's looks (from Oct 05 to Oct 06), think him the greatest since Connery. Connery, who was great in the first four, is (now) :( in his final three. Lazenby was the weakest, but OHMSS is the best, etcetera.

Transient and Fickle. Two words to keep in your vocabulary.

Me, I love all six of 'em! :) There's something exceptional about each and every one of them.

We can only imagine how history would treat Connery and Brosnan if Connery had gotten GoldenEye-to-DAD scripts and Brosnan had gotten Dr No-to-Thunderball. Eh?

#103 jaguar007

jaguar007

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 5608 posts
  • Location:Portland OR

Posted 14 September 2008 - 07:15 PM

Love him or Loath him Pierce Brosnan saved the Bond Franchise.

Which is quite ironic, considering his films made less profit overall than Dalton's.




Prove it....I dare ya.I have the fiqures ready and waitin

2005 Sony Bond Franchise Revenue Data Reporting:

Bankable Bonds:


#4

T. Dalton x3.0 Factor

2 Films

Dalton Films Bankable Factor: +4.25

Dalton Films Profit Factor: +1.76

Bankability Index Factor: +3.0


#5

P. Brosnan x2.65 Factor

4 Films

Brosnan Films Bankable Factor: +3.79

Brosnan Films Profit Factor: +1.5

Bankability Index Factor: +2.65


Studio Income Generated Through Box Office Receipts

3. Timothy Dalton $52,200,000 (2 Films)

4. Pierce Brosnan $51,200,000 (4 Films)


Studio Income Generated Per Film Through Box Office Receipts

3. Timothy Dalton $26,100,000

5. Pierce Brosnan $12,800,000


2005 Inflated Studio Income Generated Through Box Office Receipts

4. Timothy Dalton $85,370,000 (2 Films)

5. Pierce Brosnan $64,920,000 (4 Films)


2005 Inflated Studio Income Generated Per Film Through Box Office Receipts

4. Timothy Dalton $42,685,000

6. Pierce Brosnan $16,230,000



Here you go...All the Box Office recipts adjusted to inflation..............Oh that gotta hurt

UK Release Date US Release Date Film Actor US
admissions,
millions US gross, $
[adjusted 2005] Worldwide gross, $
[adjusted 2005]
1962-10-05 1963-05-08 Dr. No (1962) Connery 19.0 $16.06
[$121.9] $59.60
[$461.9]
1963-10-10 1964-04-08 From Russia With Love (1963) Connery 26.8 $24.80
[$168.2] $78.90
[$597.3]
1964-09-17 1964-12-22 Goldfinger (1964) Connery 54.9 $51.10
[$346.5] $124.90
[$847.0]
1965-12-29 1965-12-21 Thunderball (1965) Connery 74.8 $63.60
[$398.1] $141.20
[$883.6]
1967-06-12 1967-06-13 You Only Live Twice (1967) Connery 36.2 $43.10
[$230.0] $111.60
[$595.5]
1969-12-18 1969-12-18 On Her Majesty's Secret Service (1969) Lazenby 16.0 $22.80
[$106.0] $82.00
[$381.3]
1971-12-30 1971-12-17 Diamonds Are Forever (1971) Connery 24.6 $43.80
[$172.8] $116.00
[$457.7]
1973-07-06 1973-06-27 Live And Let Die (1973) Moore 20.1 $35.40
[$126.6] $161.00
[$578.7]
1974-12-18 1974-12-18 The Man With The Golden Gun (1974) Moore 11.2 $21.00
[$72.3] $97.60
[$336.2]
1977-07-13 1977-08-03 The Spy Who Loved Me (1977) Moore 21.0 $46.80
[$136.6] $185.40
[$541.2]
1979-06-26 1979-07-13 Moonraker (1979) Moore 28 $703.00
[$185.3] $210.30
[$554.3]
1981-06-24 1981-06-26 For Your Eyes Only (1981) Moore 22.4 $62.30
[$128.3] $195.30
[$457.4]
1983-12-14 1983-10-07 Never Say Never Again (1983) Connery 17.6 $55.50
[$107.50] $160.00
[$267.20]
1983-06-06 1983-06-10 Octopussy (1983) Moore 21.6 $67.90
[$140.3] $183.70
[$387.5]
1985-06-12 1985-05-24 A View To A Kill (1985) Moore 14.2 $50.30
[$92.2] $152.40
[$279.5]
1987-06-29 1987-07-31 The Living Daylights (1987) Dalton 13.1 $51.18
[$85.2] $191.20
[$318.3]
1989-06-13 1989-07-14 Licence To Kill (1989) Dalton 8.7 $34.67
[$56.6] $156.20
[$254.9]
1995-12-24 1995-11-17 GoldenEye (1995) Brosnan 24.7 $106.40
[$159.5] $348.90
[$528.9]
1997-12-12 1997-12-19 Tomorrow Never Dies (1997) Brosnan 27.3 $125.30
[$177.7] $339.34
[$491.6]
1999-11-22 1999-11-19 The World Is Not Enough (1999) Brosnan 27.3 $126.94
[$163.3] $234.89
[$501.8]
2002-11-20 2002-11-22 Die Another Day (2002) Brosnan 27.3 $160.94
[$180.6] $431.97
[$511.9]
2006-11-16 2006-11-17 Casino Royale (2006) Craig 27.3 $167.45
[n/a] $594.24
[n/a]


Notice LTK had 8.7million US admissions....TLD had 13.1..Oh massive drop in Revenue.Oh that gotta hurt....

Notice Brosnans.....27.3 which increased from 24.1 from GE-TND and maintained till DAD.Also of note those figures for TND was in competition with the biggest movie of all time Titanic...also notice that DC CR admission were in competition with Happy Feet...so do notice the trend....Also notice that DC has the same admission as PB no more no less so what does that tell ya.....DC saving the franchise.Nope............it means that PB was not less popular that DC but was more popular than TD....whom I like as Bond.


I don't think anyone can doubt that Brosnan was clearly more popular with the public as Bond than Dalton was. However what Royal Dalton was saying about the Dalton movies being more profitable have to do with cost of the film v/s revenue. The Dalton films cost about $40million to make while the Brosnan cost $100 - $150 million + to make.

Also on your chart the admission listing is for US, not worldwide. The Dalton movies fared much better overseas than they did in the US (also for CR were far above DAD worldwide,but not in the US).

#104 HildebrandRarity

HildebrandRarity

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 4361 posts

Posted 14 September 2008 - 07:22 PM

What was it like, in the old days, on these boards? I'd be shocked if, when GE opened, there wasn't an enormous wave of approval and relief--at Bond, finally, getting back to the business of Bond: dangerous and fun at once.[/color]


These boards were not around at the time of GoldenEye. Not at the time of Tomorrow Never Dies. Not The World Is Not Enough.

I've been around these boards since late 2001. I followed TWINE production on the old "Mr Kiss Kiss Bang Bang" site in early 1999. Back in 2001 people were relieved that that we'd be getting a Bond film, disturbed by the fact that the two year gap had been broken...broken partly by Brosnan's desire to do "other" stuff...Brosnan imposing his will at a time when the Broccoli clan was less confident of itself...a clan that likely was too afraid to provide anything other than a good ole' "Pierce Brosnan Is James Bond" outing for the lowest common denominator demographic...the demographic which was into wizards and magic and dissappearing objects and all that bull[censored] stuff.

Hence an anti-Pierce feeling to some extent flowing on here from those (2001) days.

#105 Loomis

Loomis

    Commander CMG

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 21862 posts

Posted 14 September 2008 - 07:27 PM

From memory, most CBners loved DIE ANOTHER DAY when it opened. Not everyone, obviously, but it did meet with a lot of enthusiasm (and rightly so). Of course, nowadays it's very fashionable in Bond fandom to hate it, but, trust me, there was quite a bit of enthusiasm about it at the time.

#106 Publius

Publius

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 3225 posts
  • Location:Miami

Posted 14 September 2008 - 07:51 PM

From memory, most CBners loved DIE ANOTHER DAY when it opened. Not everyone, obviously, but it did meet with a lot of enthusiasm (and rightly so). Of course, nowadays it's very fashionable in Bond fandom to hate it, but, trust me, there was quite a bit of enthusiasm about it at the time.

That much has been archived forever and ever. :(

What's harder for me to discern is when the consensus started to shift against DAD. I know part of any Bond movie's immediate popularity is that you've just seen it on the big screen and it's brand new, while the rest are familiar and you've been watching them at home.

However, there was probably also a gradual change in the fans who frequented this forum (and others) as it became apparent Brosnan and the direction of his Bond movies was out and something very different was in. That is, many of Brosnan's staunchest supporters left and were replaced by people who liked what they saw of Craig, CR, etc.

#107 JimmyBond

JimmyBond

    Commander

  • Executive Officers
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 10559 posts
  • Location:Washington

Posted 14 September 2008 - 08:03 PM

GE a masterpiece, every scene is perfect, god thats funny, I couldn't say that about any Bond film.


I know. GE is a dated 90's action film with an okay plot and Brosnan at his most wooden.



Please describe the term Wooden.......


Go get a dictionary and look it up, he ain't your momma.

#108 zencat

zencat

    Commander GCMG

  • Commanding Officers
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 25814 posts
  • Location:Studio City, CA

Posted 14 September 2008 - 08:08 PM

It´s interesting you say that because Dalton´s LTK was practically the final nail in the Coffin for the Bond series so much so that MGM refused to make another Bond film with Dalton and forced Cubby´s hand in changing actor and thank god they did.Even Dalton went as far and said that he didn´t think that a Bond movie would be made after LTK because he knew the writing was on the wall that nobody liked him....studio,the puplic and the only one who stood by him was Cubby...


Yeah uh, that's all bull :(. The real story is EON and MGM/UA was bogged down in legal problems, hence the 5 year delay. Timothy Dalton said in 1993 that Micheal France was writting the screen play for the next Bond film and filming would begin Janurary or Feburary 1994. Dalton got sick of waiting and resigned in April of 1994.

I think the truth of this is somewhere between you guys. True that legal problems stalled the franchise. But it's also true (according to a particular Premiere magazine article) that, when the legal problems cleared and it came time to make GoldenEye, there was a stand-off between Cubby and the studio over Dalton. I think Dalton's resignation was more about solving the problem for both of them than losing patience.

On the topic of Brozzo in GoldenEye. I loved him in GoldenEye. I thought it was his best performance and best film.

#109 marygoodnight

marygoodnight

    Sub-Lieutenant

  • Crew
  • Pip
  • 132 posts
  • Location:sweden

Posted 14 September 2008 - 08:34 PM

From memory, most CBners loved DIE ANOTHER DAY when it opened. Not everyone, obviously, but it did meet with a lot of enthusiasm (and rightly so). Of course, nowadays it's very fashionable in Bond fandom to hate it, but, trust me, there was quite a bit of enthusiasm about it at the time.


it's the same with any new bond film on any bond forum, nothing new feelings will be the same.

#110 Colossus

Colossus

    Lt. Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPip
  • 1490 posts
  • Location:SPECTRE Island

Posted 14 September 2008 - 09:29 PM

Connery, who was great in the first four, is (now) :( in his final three. Lazenby was the weakest, but OHMSS is the best, etcetera.


It's even further the more i read that he's only flawless in the first two and then starts going more relaxed/lazier/bored in the rest.

Edited by Colossus, 14 September 2008 - 09:32 PM.


#111 JimmyBond

JimmyBond

    Commander

  • Executive Officers
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 10559 posts
  • Location:Washington

Posted 14 September 2008 - 10:14 PM

The only Connery films I really enjoy are his first two and Thunderball, so there you go. I enjoy half of his films, which is about the same with Brosnan, I love TND and enjoy DAD, can't stand his other two.

I think the only Bond so far where I like all his films (not counting Craig and Lazenby who only have one film to their name) is Dalton.

#112 Judo chop

Judo chop

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 7461 posts
  • Location:the bottle to the belly!

Posted 14 September 2008 - 11:41 PM

How is this thread different than the 'pierce appreciation' thread again?

#113 HildebrandRarity

HildebrandRarity

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 4361 posts

Posted 15 September 2008 - 12:12 AM

How is this thread different than the 'pierce appreciation' thread again?


I would not know as I have not had the pleasure of visiting it! :)

Seriously, I think we should be well beyond dumping/heaping praise for one or another.

I can safely say that Connery was razor sharp in every possible way in Dr No, From Russia With Love, Goldfinger and Thunderball, but hideous in certain scenes in Diamonds Are Forever...and should never have said Never Say Never, again. :(

Similarly, Roger was da bomb in his first three, even Moonraker...but looked out of it (espeacially physically in relation to say, Daniel Craig) in FYEO and Octopussy.

I think OHMSS is a first rate Bond movie which helps Lazenby's cachet in retrospect. Who here, if anyone, thought he was better or even remotely close to Connery back in 1969/70? I bet no one.

Pierce may not have had DC's acting chops but I don't think the producers had the confidence in themselves to give us anything other than what audiences wanted with him.

With Casino Royale, they actually led the way in terms of the audience. Instead of feeding them what they wanted, Eon said: "Here, I think we'll feed you this instead...and we think you'll appreciate the serving."

#114 DaveBond21

DaveBond21

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 18026 posts
  • Location:Sydney, Australia (but from the UK)

Posted 15 September 2008 - 12:43 AM

I love Brosnan as Bond, I adore him. I give the man ALOT of credit for the scripts he had to work with. The Brosnan era was NOT bad because of BROSNAN, it was bad because of Purvis and Wade.


I don't see it as a bad era. It just suffers in comparison at the moment compared to Craig's Bond movies. But Roger's Bond was just as maligned during the Brosnan decade, so these things come and go.

#115 Publius

Publius

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 3225 posts
  • Location:Miami

Posted 15 September 2008 - 01:44 AM

The only Connery films I really enjoy are his first two and Thunderball, so there you go.

Ah, the Terence Young trilogy. :( "Proper" Bond if there ever was such a thing.

#116 Mister E

Mister E

    Resigned

  • Discharged
  • PipPipPip
  • 2160 posts

Posted 15 September 2008 - 02:14 AM

Please describe the term Wooden.......


Pierce Brosnan, no better definition ! He was simply the guy in the film who looked good in suits. Just look at the scene when Alec reveals himself to be Janus, Brosnan looked as about as surprised as someone who left their oven on when they went to Wal-Mart. He didn't anything memorable in that film at all, all he did was make smug one liners and blast through St. Peterburg like Rambo. That wasn't James Bond, that was a walking logo.

But Roger's Bond was just as maligned during the Brosnan decade, so these things come and go.



As bad as Roger's films got, you can indentify them as James Bond films, abeit cartoony ones. Also Rog could deliver could even the worst lines with a remarkable and natural panache. Brosnan said his lines like they were written down on paper.

#117 PrinceKamalKhan

PrinceKamalKhan

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 11139 posts

Posted 15 September 2008 - 03:27 AM

And his films still made less profit than Dalton's.


Here's an interesting thread asking if "LTK more profitable than DAD?"

http://debrief.comma...p;hl=profitable

#118 Mister E

Mister E

    Resigned

  • Discharged
  • PipPipPip
  • 2160 posts

Posted 15 September 2008 - 04:16 AM

Really it's the numbers that have people thinking Brosnan's films are more sucessful and technically they didn't, what counts is the multiple of making said films' money back. Take the THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS vs. DIE ANOTHER DAY as an example. TLD's budget was $40 million and it took 190 mil worldwide. That is nearly five times it's money back. DAD's budget was $142 million and it took 431.9 mil worldwide. That is only a little more then three times it's money back. So the logical conclusion is, THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS was actually more sucessful then DIE ANOTHER DAY.

#119 dodge

dodge

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 5068 posts
  • Location:USA

Posted 15 September 2008 - 02:35 PM

How is this thread different than the 'pierce appreciation' thread again?


Because most of it is now about Dalton, Moore and Connery. :(

#120 DaveBond21

DaveBond21

    Commander

  • Veterans
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 18026 posts
  • Location:Sydney, Australia (but from the UK)

Posted 15 September 2008 - 11:35 PM

In response to the original post, the Brosnan hate seems to come from the same 10 people, so there is no need to worry about it.