1269 replies to this topic

[MattofSteel]

Terrific movie. Not without its flaws - but they're no worse than any other epic, great Hollywood blockbuster. And that's what this film is - hollywood - much more so than Nolan's other ones.

BB was stylized in a gritty, yet comic-booky kind of way. Made you forgive the leaps of logic required.

TDK had no leaps of logic because it was 100% real-world grounded and required no contrivance.

TDKR takes the comic-booky contrivance of the first one and grounds it in the world of the second, creating a sort of incongruity that's epic entertainment but not totally expected or perfectly tuned, hence - I think - some of the negative reactions to the film.

As a film, first and foremost, it's definitely terrific. And the ending is a triumph. An absolute, perfect triumph. There's no other way you can end the Christopher Nolan Batman saga.

[Mr Teddy Bear]

Well, look if you wish S K Y F A L L - as you asked, I won't say too much...

Spoiler

Ra's does appear when Bruce is in prison, after a confrontation with Bane and Liam Neeson has less than 5 minutes of screen time, but it's wonderful to see him back sharing some dialogue with Bale.

However, fear not, as revelations are made in this exchange about the situations being faced, and it's not clear to Bruce, or viewers, as to whether Ra's appeared only as a vision in his weakened state.

His younger self also is on very little screen-time, but reveals a fantastic amount of narrative to link the films.

Anything else you wish to know?

Spoiler

Perhaps I'm just speaking for myself, but it was pretty clear to me Ra was just a dream, delusion or whatever you want to call it. Across all three films I can't think of any suggestions of the supernatural. I feel the ending is equally clear cut. They set up specific plot points to explain Batmans's escape for the explosion. That wasn't Aflred dreaming or seeing what he wanted to see.

Overall I'd have to say this is my favourite trilogy of films. I can't think of any other as consistently good/great as these films. I can only imagine some of the dissapointment was inevidable after following the past two films and the expectations people had set for themselves.

[DR76]

TDK had no leaps of logic because it was 100% real-world grounded and required no contrivance.

I didn't think so. I saw plenty of contrivance in TDK. And some of that contrivance continued in TDKR. Like the other two movies, TDKR was flawed. But I still managed to enjoy it. I enjoyed it more than the new SPIDER-MAN movie.

[bill007]

It didn't feel like almost three hours. I was completely engrosed. Brilliant escapism. The trilogy arc concludes, quite enjoyably.

(Patiently waiting for November.)

[thecasinoroyale]

I just love Bane, far more than I thought I would.

And I agree with your theroy KM16. I was thinking along similar lines....

Spoiler

The main threat through Nolan's trilogy was the League Of Shadows, and the Joker probably came out of Arkham with all the other criminals and not just a new 'mastermind'. I don't think there will be any larger threat from the Batman universe, like the Penguin, Riddler, Killer Cros etc. All of the threat was to do with actions from the League and that started in 'Batman Begins', had repurcussions in 'The Dark Knight' and came to a finale in 'The Dark Knight Rises' with the near completion of Ra's plan to destroy Gotham.

Once Batman knew Ra's was dead, Talia dead, Bane dead and Gotham once more on the rise, he had nearly done his job he started when he unknowingly infiltrated the L.O.S in 'BB' and stopped the major threat. Once that bomb went off, that was Ra's final piece of the puzzle destroyed.

So Batman had been through ups and downs, but Bruce Wayne had taken on a mantle he couldn't craft forever, and he wanted his city to believe in hope again and to survive on its own - so Batman could sacrifice himself for good saving the city. Bruce Wayne had nothing left in Gotham, at all, bar his small circle of friends who pretty much believed he had died as well - and if the Batman ever did come back in their life time, they would simply have a new protector without an alias.

Bruce could find some happiness with Selina and Alfred away from the city, Gordon could take back the city he has found a new strength in, Fox would continue with the Wayne Enterprises business he knows so well and Blake showed Bruce what he once had, and a worthy human to learn what he needs to protect a city he feels passionate for...so pretty much everyone had been shown a new path by Bruce's departure and Batmans death.

That's my idea anyway...probably have to watch it again to soak up all the ties left behind!!

[hcmv007]

As much as I despised The Dark Knight, I REALLY loved this movie. Bane was well portrayed as an intelligent & physically powerful man (as in the Knightfall Comic storyline & NOT as the oaf in Batman & Robin). Anne Hathaway did very well as Catwoman, and not only played the mind games that Selina often plays in the comics, but was droolworthy in the Catwoman costume. ME-YOW! Michael Caine gave another great portrayal as Alfred, Gary Oldman played Jim Gordon with great dignity, and Morgan Freeman (playing more than his Q role to Batman) as always with class. I think all these actors had fun doing this,

[Jim]

Tedious claptrap with whatever it was trying to say as incoherent as much of the dialogue.

Amused at the notion that after whatever it was, n months trapped in a sewer, the police can emerge clean-shaven, ruddy of cheek and nicely laundered and beat up a load of whoever they were, shadow people or whatever they were called. Hmm. Quite why such a fuss is made about blowing up the city is a mystery given that it only appears to have a population comprising of board members of a company and a bus load of orphans. I appreciate that criticising a film about a potty billionaire dressing up and smacking people around is a bit of a pointless task. Making it appears equally pointless. Turgid, laboured, fatuous.

[killkenny kid]

I guess Jim, didn't care for it.

[thecasinoroyale]

Wow, Jim! I guess you didn't get the "rise" out of the Dark Knight then.

Interesting opinions!

[Vauxhall]

Regarding the ending...

Spoiler

I don't think it was ambiguous at all - Bruce was in the cafe and Alfred saw him. The think the answer lies in how many times Bruce and Fox mentioned that The Bat had an autopilot mode...

Hmmm, that could be the case but...

Spoiler

Thinking about it realistically, the bomb had a radius of 6 miles. Even if it did had an autopilot mode, there's no way you could escape that. I think the ending is deliberately open to interpretation. Like Inception. I personally think Bruce Wayne was killed, and the scene at the end was only there to give Alfred some closure. I think he was thinking of what could've been. He's dwelled on that thought for so long, Plus, Alfred had this thought when he knew Bruce was alive. I think if he was dead, the circumstances would've changed and not just left with a nod.

Spoiler

There are suggestions on one forum that Bruce bails out of the Bat before leaving the centre of Gotham. There's a big burst of flame over the skyscrapers before it flies over the bridge, which some believe to mark the moment. As Arbogast said, the sheer number of references to the autopilot can't be coincidental.

[Emma]

Tedious claptrap with whatever it was trying to say as incoherent as much of the dialogue.

Amused at the notion that after whatever it was, n months trapped in a sewer, the police can emerge clean-shaven, ruddy of cheek and nicely laundered and beat up a load of whoever they were, shadow people or whatever they were called. Hmm. Quite why such a fuss is made about blowing up the city is a mystery given that it only appears to have a population comprising of board members of a company and a bus load of orphans. I appreciate that criticising a film about a potty billionaire dressing up and smacking people around is a bit of a pointless task. Making it appears equally pointless. Turgid, laboured, fatuous.

I'm with you on this as well. I hated the TDK, I thought that it was a pompous, bloated contrived film (and I say this as a massive Batman fan and fan of Begins). I was actually afraid that given the financial success of TDK. I would be treated to the same level of nonsense. But I wasn't, TDKR was a beautiful and very inspiring film. I plan on seeing it several more times before it leaves cinemas. Just wow!

Edited by Emma, 22 July 2012 - 09:16 PM.

[thecasinoroyale]

I thought this was far better than 'The Dark Knight' also...much better flow and character work.


And glad you thought that too Vauxhall ...

Spoiler

The explosion in the building was too big and dramatic for what it's purpose was, and a perfect moment for a 'switch' so to speak. That's what I thought anyway.

[byline]

I can see where you are going, Mharkin. But I feel they wouldn't make such a big deal about the software program, if what you think was true.

Yup. And, to add to that:

Spoiler

There was also the question at the end that Fox asked about the autopilot, and the technician said that it had been fixed six months ago ... by Bruce Wayne. I, too, thought the ending was metaphorical, but then my husband reminded me of that exchange.

[Jeff007]

Off to see the movie. Happy to see Batman but hoping for the Bond trailer.

[DR76]

I don't know about the rest of you, but there was something about TDKR's last half hour that strongly reminded me of a certain Bond movie. So much so that after I saw TDKR, I watched that particular Bond film.

[Jim]

I don't know about the rest of you, but there was something about TDKR's last half hour that strongly reminded me of a certain Bond movie. So much so that after I saw TDKR, I watched that particular Bond film.

...oh God...

Spoiler

1. A female love interest turns out to be the principal villain...
2. ...who is finishing her father's work...
3. ...a father for whose death the lead hero was tangentially responsible...
4. ...a hero who speaks in an absurd voice throughout...
5. ...a hero who is protrayed as injured at the beginning of the film and this is largely forgotten about towards the end given the amount of hand to hand combat that goes on...
6. ...a hero who couldn't see the twist coming when everyone else saw it coming a mile off...
7. ...the twist being that the ostensible terrorist anarchist presented as the Big Bad isn't the main threat and is being used by the female antagonist exploiting a perverse relationship between them...
8. ...a female antagonist who prior to the commencement of the film has escaped from captivity in terms spoken of with awe...
9. ...a female antagonist who has significant father "issues"...
10. .and wants to blow up a city with a stolen nuclear device...
11. .but is thwarted in this by the hero and his unlikely female companion - largely dressed throughout in either evening wear or garb designed to draw out heterosexual male fantasy and who develops unexpected (ie plot required) skills to help save the day...
12. .and who disappears with the hero at the end to be found enjoying the company of the hero
13. .a hero who becomes emotional about an old retainer retiring...
14. .an audience wondering what sort of accent the terrorist is going to administer unto us next...
15. .villains who torment people by trial by element, be it fire or ice...
16. .or trapping the hero underground whilst a countdown is ticking along merrily...
17. .this being the third film of the lead performer, a performer whose other issues seem evident (one of them anger management, the other an inability to sing. Or act)...
18. .a film in which the gadget person turns up because this is what the audience expect but actually achieves remarkably little...
19. .a film in which the hero fakes an explosion which makes his allies think he is dead...
20. .a film which believes it is taking a departure from its frivolous, utterly dispensible roots but makes the grave mistake of having everyone mope around a joyless farrago of laboured and tiresomely overextended setpieces held together with "acting" and "stuff"...
21. .a film that will be found out pretty soon as merely the franchise fodder that it is

...damn you, Nolans - you made me sit through The World is not Enough again. Damn you all to Hell. Typical bloody UCL men, sneaky buggers.

I want my money back.

[thecasinoroyale]

Damn, Jim - I thought it was 'A View To A Kill'!

Nice breakdown, I honestly didn't see the links but I can as plain as day now...!

[Vauxhall]

Something about the final shot that the non-Batman experts in my family picked up:

Spoiler

The last image of the movie is Blake standing on the platform in the Batcave as it rises out of the water, going black, before the words THE DARK KNIGHT RISES appear. In addition to the title's obvious significance with Bruce's journey, this shot shows the new Dark Knight rising himself, albeit in a literal sense (as Blake becomes Batman).

Probably something everyone else noticed, but interesting duality even for the uninitiated I thought!

[DamnCoffee]

Regarding the last shot.

Spoiler

How brilliant would it be, if it was Alfred looking towards the camera and smiling, (Not showing Bruce), the Batman theme blasts in for the last time. Cut to black then 'THE DARK KNIGHT RISES'.

[Chief of SIS]

Spoiler

10. .and wants to blow up a city with a stolen nuclear device...

I want my money back.

This...this was my number one gripe. i don't know why Nolan would try to flesh everything out then leave the worst action movie cliche of all time in there. Awful.

[coco1997]

Regarding the last shot.

Spoiler

How brilliant would it be, if it was Alfred looking towards the camera and smiling, (Not showing Bruce), the Batman theme blasts in for the last time. Cut to black then 'THE DARK KNIGHT RISES'.

When the camera lingered on Alfred looking up and starting to grin, I was really expecting that to happen. That would have been a hell of a way to end the film, but I'm glad we saw Bruce and got some closure.

This...this was my number one gripe. i don't know why Nolan would try to flesh everything out then leave the worst action movie cliche of all time in there. Awful.

Bane's plot was not too dissimilar from Ras al Ghul's in "Begins"--stealing a Wayne Enterprises device and turning it into a weapon to use against Gotham. In "Begins" it was to vaporize the city's water supply and cause mass chaos until the city ate itself alive. In "TDKR" it was to simply wipe Gotham off the map in one fell swoop. Talia was just finishing the work of her father, and for that, as well as for the many other reasons that "TDKR" was intended to tie into "BB" and hence bring the trilogy full circle, I had absolutely no problem with the fusion bomb plot.

[thecasinoroyale]

I thought the nuclear device was very...grand, but then again if the resource was there (which we saw all the connections to make the device into a bomb), then I could accept that for the League to carry out their plan. To be fair, Bane had the better idea just to sort out Gotham nice and simple rather than the drawn out method Ra's wanted to use with the toxin in the water.

And I think character closure was needed. It's not always a Nolan trait, but for this Batman journey, I think the audience of the general comic-book/superhero/action movie viewers needed to know how their story was to end, and I like the interpretation of the last shot Vauxhall - makes sense because, if you think about it...

Spoiler

Each title card pops up to almost start the story it's just told....for example....

1) Batman was created, saved Gotham and moved onto investigating new crimes with his new police ally, Jim Gordon - so, from that moment on, 'Batman Begins'.

2) Batman fights The Joker, takes the fall for Harvey Dent and is forced to go on the run, but Gordon labels him for the first time as to what he is know seen as, 'The Dark Knight'

3) Batman is back, battling Bane and finally saves Gotham after over coming his own angst and guilts. However, a fresh Robin Blake enters the Batcave, fully aware of what he has found and the Batcave starts to activate with him on top, so that would mean that finally, 'The Dark Knight Rises' to a new mantle.

So it's like the final shot/moment defines the title of the film...so Blake must (in Nolans mind) become Batman for a new generation of Gothamites.

[Chief of SIS]

Bane's plot was not too dissimilar from Ras al Ghul's in "Begins"--stealing a Wayne Enterprises device and turning it into a weapon to use against Gotham. In "Begins" it was to vaporize the city's water supply and cause mass chaos until the city ate itself alive. In "TDKR" it was to simply wipe Gotham off the map in one fell swoop. Talia was just finishing the work of her father, and for that, as well as for the many other reasons that "TDKR" was intended to tie into "BB" and hence bring the trilogy full circle, I had absolutely no problem with the fusion bomb plot.

I completely understand the full circle bit. My issue is not with that. There was a stronger purpose behind Ra's method and the toxin. And it also made for better entertainment. The fear sequences in that film were horrifyingly good. I do like the fact that it was the knowledge of the bomb that plummeted Gotham into chaos in TDKR but the laziness of resorting to a nuclear trope was beneath Nolan or any other Batman director.

Edited by Chief of SIS, 23 July 2012 - 03:39 PM.

[killkenny kid]

So I guess what Jim is telling us is, if TWINE had a director with a vision we would love it.................................I said it along with Brosnan it was the Directors.

[Matt_13]

I was consistently entertained but never enthralled. Pretty great character interactions but on the whole, I'm feeling just a little let down by it all. Funny that just about every fan theory turned out to be dead on. Have to sit on it for a bit, but as it stands, a very good movie that nevertheless feels at this point like my least favorite of the Nolan trilogy. I'll have to give it another run. Bale, Cain, and Hathaway were all tremendous.

[Publius]

I too thought of The World is not Enough when watching The Dark Knight Rises. Thankfully it didn't suffer the same problems, which in the case of The World is not Enough was bad acting, worse dialogue, characters that I didn't give a damn about, and action that put me to sleep. In other words, failure of execution, not ideas.

Overall, Rises didn't top TDK, but it was a damn good follow-up, and probably the best way to conclude that series (without getting too dark, although some might gripe about that). It even had numerous scenes that topped a lot of what its predecessors offered, namely the first Batman vs. Bane fight.

And the unsung hero of the Nolan-verse, Hans Zimmer, probably outdid himself with this one. Nothing in this series had sent chills down my spine quite the way Bane's theme (I'm assuming that's what it is) did in the opening scenes aboard the airplane. The sound of vintage horror.

[Tarl_Cabot]

I loved TDKR...I can't wait to see it again.

[thecasinoroyale]

[Single-O-Seven]

Very cool poster! Is it official or fan made? Either way, I like it.

[thecasinoroyale]

I believe it's fan made...which is brilliant as this would make a cracking limited edition DVD cover or book cover to use for the Trlogy...

...and this one below is a new version, a bit better, with the right characters placed in their specific film segment.