208 replies to this topic

[Bond Bombshell]

Just for the record, in case there's some misunderstanding, I'm sitting here watching the FA Cup semi-final and I'm as British as fish and chips.

It's not your opinions that are jarring with me Zorin, but the manner in which you've expressed them and where you are choosing to do so. Unfortunately I only appear to be encouraging you. You think your posts are relevant, but it was a hell of a leap to go from the original post to war mongering, WW3, oil, corporations, meglomania, and that only the more intelligent Americans see the world as you do. This told me exactly what you think of Americans and especially what you think of yourself. To me you are coming across as fanatical as that so-called Christian site. Now you would have us believe that Bush wants Bond films rewritten in his image. He'll be pulling the tails off puppy dogs and stealing kids' sweeties next. Thank goodness for Major Tallon who has the dignity to address complex issues with a bit of relevance and balance.

No one is trying to stifle your right to free speech, but most people have the grace to put their views across in an appropriate setting. Your dislike of Bush is understandable, but surely the general discussion forum is the right place for polemics. I expect to read about Bond in a Bond thread, and this thread has precious little to do with Bond. I say create a new topic in the general forum for Bush lovers/haters. That way I'll know to avoid it.

[Dr. Noah]

...it was a hell of a leap to go from the original post to war mongering, WW3, oil, corporations, meglomania, and that only the more intelligent Americans see the world as you do...

Sounds like a good Bond villain, actually!

[Jackanaples]

...it was a hell of a leap to go from the original post to war mongering, WW3, oil, corporations, meglomania, and that only the more intelligent Americans see the world as you do...

Sounds like a good Bond villain, actually!

Choose your next witticism carefully, Dr. Noah... and may it never be your last!

[Zorin Industries]

I expect to read about Bond in a Bond thread, and this thread has precious little to do with Bond. I say create a new topic in the general forum for Bush lovers/haters. That way I'll know to avoid it.

I am guilty of deflecting the argument slightly, but not completely. I do believe the issues and fanatacism raised by the Christian website are relevant. And as George W Bush has run America with leanings that are not disimiliar to the original website, there is some validity in what I said.

You are right. I agree with you. This site should be used for the discussion of Bond films. But tell that to the fans who start threads on the death of Anna Nichol Smith, developments in the baseball world, daylight saving hours and whether folk liked ROCKY BALBOA or not? I am not alone in deflecting the chat from all things Bond. Nor am I trying to condemn it all outright as some seem to be doing round here.

If anyone's God's, Presidents, Prime Ministers and screen heroes are as 'almighty' as some out there believe, they surely can take a bit of criticism from little old me. For the record, I think no differently about my own leader - Mr Tony Blair - but do not consider myself unpatriotic for doing so.

Anyway, as a great British comic (Dave Allen) always said "may your God go with you....".

Now..."Daylight saving hours in the context of a THUNDERBALL remake...DISCUSS"...

Edited by Zorin Industries, 15 April 2007 - 11:47 AM.

[rogermoore007]

I expect to read about Bond in a Bond thread, and this thread has precious little to do with Bond. I say create a new topic in the general forum for Bush lovers/haters. That way I'll know to avoid it.

I am guilty of deflecting the argument slightly, but not completely. I do believe the issues and fanatacism raised by the Christian website are relevant. And as George W Bush has run America with leanings that are not disimiliar to the original website, there is some validity in what I said.

You are right. I agree with you. This site should be used for the discussion of Bond films. But tell that to the fans who start threads on the death of Anna Nichol Smith, developments in the baseball world, daylight saving hours and whether folk liked ROCKY BALBOA or not? I am not alone in deflecting the chat from all things Bond. Nor am I trying to condemn it all outright as some seem to be doing round here.

>cough< general discussion >cough<

Edited by rogermoore007, 15 April 2007 - 12:13 PM.

[Doctor Shatterhand]

I am guilty of deflecting the argument slightly, but not completely.

Congratulations, you were able to admit it and make an oxy-moron statement.

[Jackanaples]

You should be. we all should be. 80 million people in America are Evangelical Christians. There's already enough of them to sway your elections.

All you have to do is look at the headlines and see how other religions are so "normal", so tolerant.

Islamic militants killing hundreds a day in Iraq & Afghanistan.

Hindus clamoring to put Liz Hurley in jail because, gasp!, she sat on a couch instead of on the floor by the "sacred fire."

Ultimately, I think the problem with religion stems from the complete incompatibility of many of its ideas (in the case of Christianity, dating back to the Bronze Age; in some other instances far older) with the 21st century. Even the miracles of our holy books tend to pale in comparison with NASA putting a man on the moon, Crick and Watson's discovery of the DNA double-helix; and yes, using the internet to talk over important matters of politics, religion, and the minutiae of James Bond films with complete strangers comfortably ensconced in their homes On The Other Side Of The Planet.

Burning bushes and the like just can't match up to the stuff we now take for granted every day. Just my opinion.

This is also why I think elaborate gadgets don't work anymore in the Bond films. We all have gadgets now and so the sense of wonder is completely lost in regards to them. (Come on, you didn't see that last part coming!)

Edited by Jackanaples, 15 April 2007 - 01:45 PM.

[Kiss Kiss Bang Bang]

Well, (to continue this (off)topic) I don't know - to feed thousands without money/resources, turn water into wine, resurrect the dead, or simply to create a whole Universe still is beyond our capabilities. Man achieved a lot, no argument from me, and he will continue to grow (as a Star Trek fan I'm sure of that ) but there is this fine line between miracle and science. And as long as the latter is our domain I think we should stay humble towards religion as a whole...

But about that Bond gadgets thing, well you're propably right... And I didn't see that one coming

[Santa]

to feed thousands without money/resources, turn water into wine, resurrect the dead, or simply to create a whole Universe

Assuming one believes that's what happened in the first place.

[Kiss Kiss Bang Bang]

Nonetheless.

[HildebrandRarity]

I was raised a Roman Catholic and am still one...

But to be totally honest, I don't go to Bond films for a sermon. I go for the rollercoaster ride that is pure escapism.

Bond films have always had a foot in adult entertainment and to have a religious website rate the film for families who cannot figure out that a PG-13 film is not for kids under 13 seems pathetic.

The Holy Bible is filled with all sorts of violence that would make Casino Royale look tame in comparison.

I remeber my church-going grandparents telling me how The Vatican was so not happy about the open sexuality and sexual exploits of James Bond in Dr No, FRWL, Goldfinger, etc...yet they still went to the cinema to see 007 and ejoyed themselves thoroughly.

Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose. The more things change the more they stay the same.

The funniest line in CR is when Obanno asks Le Chiffre if he believes in God and Le Chiffre answers no...he believes in a reasonable rate of return.

Funny as hell especially to someone with a career in the financial services industry.

Really, who is Bond at the core?

In my mind he is a man of loyalty and honour who protects innocence and destroys evil.

Bond, as a character, is the furthest thing from anti-God in my mind. Seems more like a dark angel with some manly vices (drink, adultery, gambling) and flaws (sadistic at times) doing the Lord's work on earth.

Edited by HildebrandRarity, 15 April 2007 - 03:16 PM.

[Roebuck]

there is this fine line between miracle and science. And as long as the latter is our domain I think we should stay humble towards religion as a whole...

Professor Steve Jones sumed it up nicely on the radio this morning when he said (I paraphrase) religion and science can be compared to a tiger and a shark; both are powerful but end up looking ridiculous when they stray into each others natural environment.

We had a clear example this week when the Pope came out with "But it is also true that the theory of evolution is not a complete, scientifically proven theory."

DOH!

[HildebrandRarity]

I want my megalomaniacs to stroke white cats, not the palms of big business.

Hey old friend, I didn't think you were into pussy. ;-)



I have a riddle for you, Zorin:

You have a donkey and your neighbour has a rooster.

His rooster flies over the fence and has one of its legs eaten by your donkey.

How are you left?








One foot of his cock in your as$.



LOL!!!!!


;-)

Sorry old chum...couldn't resist.

Edited by HildebrandRarity, 15 April 2007 - 03:13 PM.

[Jackanaples]

I was raised a Roman Catholic and am still one...

But to be totally honest, I don't go to Bond films for a sermon. I go for the rollercoaster ride that is pure escapism.

Bond films have always had a foot in adult entertainment and to have a religious website rate the film for families who cannot figure out that a PG-13 film is not for kids under 13 seems pathetic.

The Holy Bible is filled with all sorts of violence that would make Casino Royale look tame in comparison.

The funniest line in CR is when Obanno asks Le Chiffre if he believes in God and Le Chiffre answers no...he believes in a reasonable rate of return.

Funny as hell especially to someone with a career in the financial services industry.

Really, who is Bond at the core?

In my mind he is a man of honour who destroys evil.

Bond, as a result, is the furthest thing from anti-God in the world of blockbusters. Seems more like a dark angel with some manly vices and flaws doing the Lord's work on earth.

I don't think you're far off with that. I remember reading once (from Kingsley Amis?) that symbolically, James Bond was a knight of old going out to slay grotesque dragons for queen and country.

Edited by Jackanaples, 15 April 2007 - 03:01 PM.

[Kilroy6644]

Professor Steve Jones sumed it up nicely on the radio this morning when he said (I paraphrase) religion and science can be compared to a tiger and a shark; both are powerful but end up looking ridiculous when they stray into each others natural environment.

I like that, and it's absolutely true. That's why I get sick of the whole religion/science debate. On the one side are the people who try to boil religion down to nothing more than primitive man's attempt to explain natural phenomena. (While there certainly are religions like that, for the world's major religions, it's a very minor part.) On the other side are the people who view science as nothing more than an attempt to deny the existence of God by explaining things. Add in the nature of human beings to be followers, and you have two camps with little independent thought in between. "God, not science!" "Science, not God!" It's completely ridiculous.

[HildebrandRarity]

there is this fine line between miracle and science. And as long as the latter is our domain I think we should stay humble towards religion as a whole...

Professor Steve Jones sumed it up nicely on the radio this morning when he said (I paraphrase) religion and science can be compared to a tiger and a shark; both are powerful but end up looking ridiculous when they stray into each others natural environment.

We had a clear example this week when the Pope came out with "But it is also true that the theory of evolution is not a complete, scientifically proven theory."

DOH!

What's to DOH! about, my friend? What he said in not incorrect.

There are far too many theoretical flaws, gaps in the fossil records, evidence elsewhere, etc for an intelligent adult to take the theory of evolution seriously.

Was anyone around to see the so called big bang? Or to record events theorized by the Evolutionary Theorists? Nope!

Then, there are far too many scientists on the planet who also believe in God. Google it and see.

Both camps require a great leap of faith to embrace their own particular school of belief.

Edited by HildebrandRarity, 15 April 2007 - 03:29 PM.

[Icephoenix]

there is this fine line between miracle and science. And as long as the latter is our domain I think we should stay humble towards religion as a whole...

Professor Steve Jones sumed it up nicely on the radio this morning when he said (I paraphrase) religion and science can be compared to a tiger and a shark; both are powerful but end up looking ridiculous when they stray into each others natural environment.

We had a clear example this week when the Pope came out with "But it is also true that the theory of evolution is not a complete, scientifically proven theory."

DOH!

Was anyone around to see the so called big bang?

Certainly not 'god'

Sorry, couldn't resist.

[HildebrandRarity]

there is this fine line between miracle and science. And as long as the latter is our domain I think we should stay humble towards religion as a whole...

Professor Steve Jones sumed it up nicely on the radio this morning when he said (I paraphrase) religion and science can be compared to a tiger and a shark; both are powerful but end up looking ridiculous when they stray into each others natural environment.

We had a clear example this week when the Pope came out with "But it is also true that the theory of evolution is not a complete, scientifically proven theory."

DOH!

Was anyone around to see the so called big bang?

Certainly not 'god'

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Touche' ;-)

[Kiss Kiss Bang Bang]

Well I would also theorise that scienc and belief (religion) are on the same plain, but they are (or should be) differentiated. They both try to say something (or rather everything) about the world around us but from different points of view. Like religion from within us, our 'soul' or 'mind' while science from outside us (transcendetalism is the term, I believe). When they clash -- kaboom, Big Bang

[Santa]

Was anyone around to see the so called big bang?

I think my aunt was. She's really old.

[HildebrandRarity]

Was anyone around to see the so called big bang?

I think my aunt was. She's really old.

Come to think of it, there was a big bang in the bedroom while my girlfriend was over on Friday evening.

[Zorin Industries]

I am guilty of deflecting the argument slightly, but not completely.

Congratulations, you were able to admit it and make an oxy-moron statement.

See - we can all be friends, can't we? And everyone's generosity of spirit still has time for lessons in grammar. Who said we can't extend handshakes across the Atlantic?!

I want my megalomaniacs to stroke white cats, not the palms of big business.

Hey old friend, I didn't think you were into pussy. ;-)



I have a riddle for you, Zorin:

You have a donkey and your neighbour has a rooster.

His rooster flies over the fence and has one of its legs eaten by your donkey.

How are you left?








One foot of his cock in your as$.



LOL!!!!!


;-)

Sorry old chum...couldn't resist.

Bitch...!

[Roebuck]

Well I would also theorise that scienc and belief (religion) are on the same plain, but they are (or should be) differentiated. They both try to say something (or rather everything) about the world around us but from different points of view. Like religion from within us, our 'soul' or 'mind' while science from outside us (transcendetalism is the term, I believe). When they clash -- kaboom, Big Bang

Science is our toolbox for understanding where we come from and what we are. It's less successful at answering questions about WHO we are and ''why are we here?''. Those are the province of philosophers, artists and (yes) holy men.

Like Douglas Adam's ''Deep Thought'' computer, when scientists cross over into the metaphysical they tend to make a hash of it.
A bit like Popes who make dumb pronouncements about science.

[stromberg]

Breaking my golden rule of staying away from threads that touch religion and/or politics (and this very thread is a fine example why that is) to set the record straight on this one:

I see my post has been deleted, that aint proffesional hahahahhaha

No it hasn't. Check your facts properly before you make silly and unfounded accusations. Your posts still is (and always was) on page 2 of this thread: http://debrief.comma...p...st&p=726590

Not very professional, either. hahahahhaha yourself.

[Gobi-1]

I'm a Christian and being a huge James Bond fan would seem to be at odds with my religion. However I've come to realize that the Bible itself is full of same stuff you would find in a Bond film/novel. Murder, lies, deceit, betrayal, lust, sex, adultery, greed, pride, revenge, envy, war, stabbings, impalings, beheadings, and incest (now there's a taboo even Bond hasn't touched.)

Samson kill more people with the jawbone of a donkey then Bond could with a pair of machine guns and a small army. If one was to make an accurate film portrayal of the Bible it would be NC-17. The story of the Bible and Christianity is redemption and overcoming a sinful world. As far as I can tell the world has never been rated G.

As for the review of CR I think they're taking it way to the extreme. They must have been on the set with a flashlight pointed at Daniel Craig's crotch because I sure didn't see anything.

I've known quite a few of these extreme "Christians", although they're really just religious zealots who identify themselves as "Christians", and they're a very weird lot. I remember some kids from an extreme family telling me that there are video cameras inside your tv set so the government could spy into your homes!

Just because something is secular doesn't mean we can't enjoy it. I'm a Christian and I enjoy James Bond.

[Royal Dalton]

I've known quite a few of these extreme "Christians", although they're really just religious zealots who identify themselves as "Christians", and they're a very weird lot.

Spot on, Gobi.

[commanderblond]

I have no problem with people having religious views, as such. I don't share them and you're never gonna convert me, but I'm not about to stop you having them.

What does worry me though, are creationists who want the biblical version of the creation of the world to be taught alongside Darwinian evolutionary science. Darwinian evolution is an accepted theory. While it may have it's flaws (as all theories do), it's the best explanation we've got.

Creationism, or to use its dressed-up title of "Intelligent Design" is, it seems to me, an attempt to shoehorn religion into the science classroom by the backdoor as an alternative theory. Religion and Science do not belong in the same textbook.

[Mike00spy]

I have no problem with people having religious views, as such. I don't share them and you're never gonna convert me, but I'm not about to stop you having them.

What does worry me though, are creationists who want the biblical version of the creation of the world to be taught alongside Darwinian evolutionary science. Darwinian evolution is an accepted theory. While it may have it's flaws (as all theories do), it's the best explanation we've got.

Creationism, or to use its dressed-up title of "Intelligent Design" is, it seems to me, an attempt to shoehorn religion into the science classroom by the backdoor as an alternative theory. Religion and Science do not belong in the same textbook.

Quite agree.

I think the word theory is what throws people off. Correct me if I am wrong, but a scientific theory has more weight than a regular use of the word theory. (If you get my point). I believe gravity is a theory as well.

As for the pope, well it took him, oh- 400 years to offically admitt the Vatican was wrong when they ex-communicated Galieo for saying that the Earth revolved around the sun.

[dee-bee-five]

http://www.capalert....asinoroyale.htm

Draw your own conclusions. I have drawn mine.

I should prefer to draw my gun and put the pillock out of our misery...

What utter Tommy rot. I didn't see any pubic hair. And, by God, I looked...

Edited by dee-bee-five, 16 April 2007 - 03:08 PM.

[Zorin Industries]

http://www.capalert....asinoroyale.htm

Draw your own conclusions. I have drawn mine.

I should prefer to draw my gun and put the pillock out of our misery...

What utter Tommy rot. I didn't see any pubic hair. And, by God, I looked...

And so did I. And although I have somewhat accidentally offended a few American Bond fans on this thread, they cannot be as offended as I was when I've been promised The Craig's Downstairs Mugshot by a Christian website (and hence God himself) only to realise Daniel has been more chaste in that respect than the Virgin Mary on a trip to the White House!

Oh well - back to my copy of LOVE IS THE DEVIL....!

(Did I say any of that out loud....?! Hope not....)