109 replies to this topic

[Roebuck]

let's not gloat over the man's death. He was obviously a troubled old man who lived what seemed to be an Ahab-like existence, trying to kill his own leviathan until his dying breath.

Desmond Llewelyn was a friend of McClory and I recall a quote (from his biography, I think) were he talks about how the Bond obsession had brought McClory a lot of unhappiness in later life. He appears to have been a likeable and creative man, and it

[Tim007]

Rest in Peace, Kevin.

[Qwerty]

Topics merged.

[vmsns]

Good or bad, he played a significant part in making the Bond series what it is today.

R.I.P.

[Agent Spriggan Ominae]

Wow this is so out of the blue. So many people have been dying recently. RIP Mr. McClory.

[moorebond82]

Another staple of bond passes away,R.I.P. Kevin

[uvhadyrsix]

G'day I was hoping to see a rival James Bond with Pierce Brosnan or Timothy Dalton or one of the other contenders. Kevin McClory was part of James bond History whether it was good or bad in people's eyes.

I respect him for his contribution to James Bond, Rest In Peace Kevin and Thank You.

[Zorin Industries]

Another staple of bond passes away,R.I.P. Kevin

A "staple"? Come on folks...it's not Diana. He wasn't the "people's producer"!

[ACE]

I guess his days of asking are all gone...

RIP Kevin McClory.

[Loomis]

Because of him, we got to see what a legitimate remake of a Bond film would be like and he lured Sean Connery back for a seventh and final 007 film, for which we should all be grateful for.

Exactly. And some of us even consider NEVER SAY NEVER AGAIN a good film.

But, leaving aside such things as motion pictures, the relative merits of THUNDERBALL and NSNA, and the question of how much responsibility McClory bore for the death of a man who by all accounts was himself no shining paragon of virtue and who did not keep himself in good physical shape, boozing and fagging like a demon because he chose not to seek to prolong his days, or however Bond phrases it in one of his novels.... leaving all that aside, the venom spewed by some 007 fans on the news of McClory's passing is not at all impressive. Presumably, there'll be similar stuff when, oh, I don't know, Tamahori or Vin Diesel kicks the bucket.

[marktmurphy]

Sad stuff.

I think if any of us had a claim to writing a Bond story with Ian Fleming and held the rights over it we might just keep hold of it too. The number of times I've read 'I'd play James Bond for free' on these forums... whereas of course if someone actually has a legimate claim on Bond they should give it up and stop going on about it. Ridiculous.

[dee-bee-five]

Because of him, we got to see what a legitimate remake of a Bond film would be like and he lured Sean Connery back for a seventh and final 007 film, for which we should all be grateful for.

Exactly. And some of us even consider NEVER SAY NEVER AGAIN a good film.

But, leaving aside such things as motion pictures, the relative merits of THUNDERBALL and NSNA, and the question of how much responsibility McClory bore for the death of a man who by all accounts was himself no shining paragon of virtue and who did not keep himself in good physical shape, boozing and fagging like a demon because he chose not to seek to prolong his days, or however Bond phrases it in one of his novels.... leaving all that aside, some of the venom spewed by 007 fans on the news of McClory's passing is not at all impressive. Presumably, there'll be similar stuff when, oh, I don't know, Tamahori or Vin Diesel kicks the bucket.

The points you make about the state of Fleming's health are valid. However, I guess it comes down to whether one believes Fleming's death was hastened by a spurious plagiarism case. I do.

Edited by dee-bee-five, 30 November 2006 - 02:02 PM.

[The_Mole]

So I guess a re-remake of Thunderball (Warhead) is off the cards?...

RIP The McClory.

Edited by The_Mole, 30 November 2006 - 02:12 PM.

[marktmurphy]

But, leaving aside such things as motion pictures, the relative merits of THUNDERBALL and NSNA, and the question of how much responsibility McClory bore for the death of a man who by all accounts was himself no shining paragon of virtue and who did not keep himself in good physical shape, boozing and fagging like a demon because he chose not to seek to prolong his days, or however Bond phrases it in one of his novels.... leaving all that aside, some of the venom spewed by 007 fans on the news of McClory's passing is not at all impressive. Presumably, there'll be similar stuff when, oh, I don't know, Tamahori or Vin Diesel kicks the bucket.

The points you make about the state of Fleming's health are valid. However, I guess it comes down to whether one believes Fleming's death was hastened by a spurious plagiarism case. I do.

Maybe it was; but perhaps the case wouldn't have happened if Fleming hadn't actually done what he was accused of. You can't blame McClory for Fleming ripping him off.

[Bondian]

RIP Mr McClory.

[DLibrasnow]

Saddened to hear about his passing.

He gave so much to the world of 007 - Blofeld, SPECTRE, the movies Thunderball and my all-time favorite James Bond movie Never Say Never Again.

Oh yeah...regarding a discussion in this thread. That scumbag Ian Fleming plagiarized McClory's ideas. Nuff said.

[ACE]

That scumbag Ian Fleming plagiarized McClory's ideas. Nuff said.

[Asim]

Oh well, he lived to die another day...ops

[the villain's architect]

RIP Mr. McClory. Your contribution to the world of James Bond will be remembered.

[BlackFelix]

With the passing of Kevin McClory this really does close the door to almost every real-life Fleming connection. It's all actually rather sad to be honest. Through my posted topics and contributions on other topics, my feelings for Kevin McClory were always sympathetic and supportive! Like it or not he helped shape an era. His works with Fleming changed Bond from a literary anti-hero to a sell-able film franchise...But thats all ashes now.

McClory for me personally was responsible for my favorite Bond film "Thunderball". Had it not been for the instant appeal of that film I wouldn't be posting here today. Also he's resposiable for doing what EON couldn't do...Brought back Sean Connery for another go at Bond! McClory earned my respect.

Admittadley McClory chased a fading dream for 50 yrs and perhaps in that time he may have developed other ideas for films or books that may have surpassed the popularity of Bond...anyone who created "Thunderball" clearly has the talent! But we'll never know what he saw that he dedicated so much of his life to obtaining. What is true is that we've lost a talent and he should be paid his respect. We fans sometimes lose sight that McClory was there way before anyone heard of Saltzman or Broccoli...They don't own Bond...not to say McClory did but he helped shape an icon. And that's further credit to the creation of Bond...it's such an endearing character that we shouldn't look at who owns him on "paper" Bond is beyond that!

The anger some have displayed towards McClory today is rather disturbing. He wasn't a villain, he had a family and children. He was loved and today..for someone a void is being felt..an absense that can't be replaced and we should remain respectful of someone's lose.

RIP Kevin McClory

[delfloria]

Before putting EON on too high a pedistal, remember they did the same thing that McClory did to Fleming, at a time when he was ill, by stopping Fleming's continued involvement with the creation of "The Man from U.N.C.L.E.".

[killkenny kid]

RIP, Kevin. And thanks for Never Say Never Again.


btw some of the posts in this thread ,are really sad.

[dee-bee-five]

Saddened to hear about his passing.

He gave so much to the world of 007 - Blofeld, SPECTRE, the movies Thunderball and my all-time favorite James Bond movie Never Say Never Again.

Oh yeah...regarding a discussion in this thread. That scumbag Ian Fleming plagiarized McClory's ideas. Nuff said.

The idea that Fleming plagiarised McClory is absurd, as any scant examination of the facts testifies. Thunderball features the characters of James Bond, M, Miss Moneypenny and Felix Leiter; characters Fleming had created seven years before meeting Kevin McClory. The characters of Blofeld, Largo and Domino are reworkings of earlier characters Fleming used. The major set pieces - the gambling, underwater scenes, nuclear terrorism (first used in Moonraker) - are,again, all reworkings of earlier Fleming books. I've even heard it said that SPECTRE (a word Fleming had used in connection with criminality - Spectreville in DAF) is nothing more than a privatised SMERSH. So to say that Fleming plagiarised McClory is a nonsense. Not for nothing did Kingsley Amis describe Thunderball as "pure Fleming".

But, clearly, Fleming and McClory did talk about a screenplay before Fleming wrote Thunderball. Let's think about this for a moment. This was a gentlemen's agreement with nothing written down. Why did McClory embark on this? He wasn't an amateur. He'd dealt with Hollywood previously. The reason he did this was because he saw a buck to be made out of James Bond. Now I'm not condemning him for this; it's business and Eon and the Fleming estate have been making quite a few bucks out of James Bond for more than four decades. But please don't lets get carried away with the romantic notion that Mcclory was some poor naive little beginner who was screwed by Fleming. Had James Bond of the Secret Service gone ahead, with McClory producing, I bet I know in who's favour the financial split would have been - and it wouldn't have been Fleming's.

When Fleming went away to write Thunderball, I firmly believe that his use of whatever collaborative material was contained in those screenplays was done in good faith. It is well known that Fleming had a horror of litigation throughout his life and he was not a stupid man; so the notion that he deliberately set out to deny McClory his rights is fanciful to say the least. Personally (although I wasn't present at their meetings, obviously), having read as much as I can about this case, I believe Fleming believed, rightly or wrongly, that whatever McClory contributed to the book Thunderball, it was negligible and this further emboldened him.

There is a world of difference between someone winning a court case and someone else throwing in the towel. Let's not forget that McClory did not win the plagiarism case; Fleming settled out of court, having been persuaded to do so by his family and friends who were concerned by the strain the case was having on his health. Out of interest, I asked a lawyer friend, who specıalıses in copyright law, to have a look at the facts of the case. In his opinion, he believes, on balance, Fleming would have won if the case had continued. But this is academic, of course.

All of which sounds like I'm dancing on McClory's grave. But I'm not. As I posted earlier, I'm not going to be a hypocrite and claim I'll mourn the man (although, in this post-Diana age, some of the mawkishness I'm reading on this thread is a bit much). My feelings for Kevin McCLory are ones of sadness; that a man of some obvious talent wasted fifty years of his life on an obsession. It is a tragedy of almost Shakespearean proportions.

It is to the credit of those posters on this thread to ask for restraint when we write about McClory and to consider the feelings of his family. I would echo that sentiment. Of course, in so doing, we will be affording Mr. McClory's family rather more respect than he showed those of Ian Fleming and Cubby Broccoli, both of whom were barely cold when he pursued his claim to James Bond.

Edited by dee-bee-five, 30 November 2006 - 05:45 PM.

[Zorin Industries]

Saddened to hear about his passing.

He gave so much to the world of 007 - Blofeld, SPECTRE, the movies Thunderball and my all-time favorite James Bond movie Never Say Never Again.

Oh yeah...regarding a discussion in this thread. That scumbag Ian Fleming plagiarized McClory's ideas. Nuff said.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but didn't Fleming lay out most of the world of Bond in the first novel HE wrote - CASINO ROYALE....? McClory should have had the dignity to bow out gracefully instead of giving us all the cinematic indignity that is NEVER SAY NEVER AGAIN, which was only bankrolled by a studio who wanted a bite of the Broccoli cherry and were presented with an avenue - i.e. McClory - to do so.

When are Bond fans going to realise that resorting to the opposite opinion (i.e. "tonight let's hate Ian Fleming") is a lazy and naff way to discuss Bond and the Bond films.

RIP McClory certainly. Not so sure about the "legacy"....

The idea that Fleming plagiarised McClory is absurd, as any scant examination of the facts testifies. Thunderball features the characters of James Bond, M, Miss Moneypenny and Felix Leiter; characters Fleming had created seven years before meeting Kevin McClory. The characters of Blofeld, Largo and Domino are reworkings of earlier characters Fleming used. The major set pieces - the gambling, underwater scenes, nuclear terrorism (first used in Moonraker) - are,again, all reworkings of earlier Fleming books. I've even heard it said that SPECTRE (a word Fleming had used in connection with criminality - Spectreville in DAF) is nothing more than a privatised SMERSH. So to say that Fleming plagiarised McClory is a nonsense. Not for nothing did Kingsley Amis describe Thunderball as "pure Fleming".

But, clearly, Fleming and McClory did talk about a screenplay before Fleming wrote Thunderball. Let's think about this for a moment. This was a gentlemen's agreement with nothing written down. Why did McClory embark on this? He wasn't an amateur. He'd dealt with Hollywood previously. The reason he did this was because he saw a buck to be made out of James Bond. Now I'm not condemning him for this; it's business and Eon and the Fleming estate have been making quite a few bucks out of James Bond for more than four decades. But please don't lets get carried away with the romantic notion that Mcclory was some poor naive little beginner who was screwed by Fleming. Had James Bond of the Secret Service gone ahead, with McClory producing, I bet I know in who's favour the financial split would have been - and it wouldn't have been Fleming's.

When Fleming went away to write Thunderball, I firmly believe that his use of whatever collaborative material was contained in those screenplays was done in good faith. It is well known that Fleming had a horror of litigation throughout his life and he was not a stupid man; so the notion that he deliberately set out to deny McClory his rights is fanciful to say the least. Personally (although I wasn't present at their meetings, obviously), having read as much as I can about this case, I believe Fleming believed, rightly or wrongly, that whatever McClory contributed to the book Thunderball, it was negligible and this further emboldened him.

There is a world of difference between someone winning a court case and someone else throwing in the towel. Let's not forget that McClory did not win the plagiarism case; Fleming settled out of court, having been persuaded to do so by his family and friends who were concerned by the strain the case was having on his health. Out of interest, I asked a lawyer friend, who specıalıses in copyright law, to have a look at the facts of the case. In his opinion, he believes, on balance, Fleming would have won if the case had continued. But this is academic, of course.

All of which sounds like I'm dancing on McClory's grave. But I'm not. As I posted earlier, I'm not going to be a hypocrite and claim I'll mourn the man (although, in this post-Diana age, some of the mawkishness I'm reading on this thread is a bit much). My feelings for Kevin McCLory are ones of sadness; that a man of some obvious talent wasted fifty years of his life on an obsession. It is a tragedy of almost Shakespearean proportions.

It is to the credit of those posters on this thread to ask for restraint when we write about McClory and to consider the feelings of his family. I would echo that sentiment. Of course, in so doing, we will be affording Mr. McClory's family rather more respect than he showed those of Ian Fleming and Cubby Broccoli, both of whom were barely cold when he pursued his claim to James Bond.

That last point is very valid, DeeBeeFive. Why did McClory only begin staking a claim in Bond, and continue to do so for bloomin' decades, AFTER the Bond bandwagon had set off and cleaned out every bank in the land.

[Skudor]

Another giant of the early Bond years is gone. I guess it's basically only Connery left now. RIP Mr McClory.

[Zorin Industries]

Another giant of the early Bond years is gone. I guess it's basically only Connery left now. RIP Mr McClory.

John Barry?

Ken Adam?

Peter Lamont?

Shirley Bassey?

Guy Hamilton?

[Skudor]

Another giant of the early Bond years is gone. I guess it's basically only Connery left now. RIP Mr McClory.

John Barry?

Ken Adam?

Peter Lamont?

Shirley Bassey?

Guy Hamilton?

Was hoping someone would make a list. Hamilton and Adam are still alive?

Not sure I'd include Shirley Bassey on that list - but I guess she would belong no less than McClory. Whatever. The poor dude has passed away.

[Loomis]

Saddened to hear about his passing.

He gave so much to the world of 007 - Blofeld, SPECTRE, the movies Thunderball and my all-time favorite James Bond movie Never Say Never Again.

Oh yeah...regarding a discussion in this thread. That scumbag Ian Fleming plagiarized McClory's ideas. Nuff said.

The idea that Fleming plagiarised McClory is absurd, as any scant examination of the facts testifies. Thunderball features the characters of James Bond, M, Miss Moneypenny and Felix Leiter; characters Fleming had created seven years before meeting Kevin McClory. The characters of Blofeld, Largo and Domino are reworkings of earlier characters Fleming used. The major set pieces - the gambling, underwater scenes, nuclear terrorism (first used in Moonraker) - are,again, all reworkings of earlier Fleming books. I've even heard it said that SPECTRE (a word Fleming had used in connection with criminality - Spectreville in DAF) is nothing more than a privatised SMERSH. So to say that Fleming plagiarised McClory is a nonsense. Not for nothing did Kingsley Amis describe Thunderball as "pure Fleming".

But, clearly, Fleming and McClory did talk about a screenplay before Fleming wrote Thunderball. Let's think about this for a moment. This was a gentlemen's agreement with nothing written down. Why did McClory embark on this? He wasn't an amateur. He'd dealt with Hollywood previously. The reason he did this was because he saw a buck to be made out of James Bond. Now I'm not condemning him for this; it's business and Eon and the Fleming estate have been making quite a few bucks out of James Bond for more than four decades. But please don't lets get carried away with the romantic notion that Mcclory was some poor naive little beginner who was screwed by Fleming. Had James Bond of the Secret Service gone ahead, with McClory producing, I bet I know in who's favour the financial split would have been - and it wouldn't have been Fleming's.

When Fleming went away to write Thunderball, I firmly believe that his use of whatever collaborative material was contained in those screenplays was done in good faith. It is well known that Fleming had a horror of litigation throughout his life and he was not a stupid man; so the notion that he deliberately set out to deny McClory his rights is fanciful to say the least. Personally (although I wasn't present at their meetings, obviously), having read as much as I can about this case, I believe Fleming believed, rightly or wrongly, that whatever McClory contributed to the book Thunderball, it was negligible and this further emboldened him.

There is a world of difference between someone winning a court case and someone else throwing in the towel. Let's not forget that McClory did not win the plagiarism case; Fleming settled out of court, having been persuaded to do so by his family and friends who were concerned by the strain the case was having on his health. Out of interest, I asked a lawyer friend, who specıalıses in copyright law, to have a look at the facts of the case. In his opinion, he believes, on balance, Fleming would have won if the case had continued. But this is academic, of course.

All of which sounds like I'm dancing on McClory's grave. But I'm not. As I posted earlier, I'm not going to be a hypocrite and claim I'll mourn the man (although, in this post-Diana age, some of the mawkishness I'm reading on this thread is a bit much). My feelings for Kevin McCLory are ones of sadness; that a man of some obvious talent wasted fifty years of his life on an obsession. It is a tragedy of almost Shakespearean proportions.

It is to the credit of those posters on this thread to ask for restraint when we write about McClory and to consider the feelings of his family. I would echo that sentiment. Of course, in so doing, we will be affording Mr. McClory's family rather more respect than he showed those of Ian Fleming and Cubby Broccoli, both of whom were barely cold when he pursued his claim to James Bond.

Not sure I see any mawkishness on this thread. Also, with regard to McClory's supposed squandering of his life, I presume - only presume, mind you - that he did very, very nicely indeed (by most people's standards, at any rate) out of NEVER SAY NEVER AGAIN, so maybe it wasn't all such a waste of time after all.

[Double-Oh-Zero]

Rest in Peace, Mr. McClory.

[Zorin Industries]

As with anyone's death, my thoughts go to his family. I think that any references to the impact his death will have on the future of the Bond franchise are inappropriate at this time. Rest in peace, Mr McClory.

His death will have NO impact on the series....!

Why is there this Diana-ification of someone who yesterday wasn't even in anyone's thoughts?!