246 replies to this topic

[iexpectu2die]

Why are you such an , Jim, and why does this website put up with you?

As far as I can see, your original post was just as downbeat, and showed a complete lack of appreciation for these people offering details to those who ask.

But back on topic, I like the sound of Vesper's death providing what could be Bond's last ever 'emotionally open' moment. It would give it greater importance. I think this scene sounds great.

[kneelbeforezod]

Does Bond actually break down and cry? Not sure about that, but of course, seeing it in context I may well feel differently.

This accurately reflects what the script has to say:

Spoiler

Bond pulls her out on the streat and seals his mouth over hers, desperately trying to bring her back to life. A crowd looks on as police arrive at the scene. Someone trys to pull Bond away from her and fails. Bond bangs his fists on her chest, crying out.

It never explicitly says Bond breaks down and cries, but he does have a very desperate moment.

I'm asking because because Bond strikes me as the kind of man that would would keep that pain on the inside. And I can imagine Craig conveying that pain without him actually breaking down.

Bond tears up in Fleming's novel after reading Vesper's note if you remember.

I feel like we should never be allowed to get too close to Bond, he should never be totally exposed emotionally.

Eh, I'd show Bond in his pain and desperation and agony in that moment. It's far from a quiet moment, and Bond has been given no time to actually draw himself together.

Well you and JimmyBond have sold me on it, it sounds excellent.

These scenes will need to be very deftly handled by Campbell, I hope he's up to the job.

As an example of what I don't want to see: Remember Liam Neeson breaking down at the end of Schindler's List? It's a moment of great anguish for the character, but seeing him on his knees, sobbing, just doesn't work. It feels out of character.

However those script excerpts suggest there will be plenty of room for manoeuvre in the way that scene is handled.

[Jericho_One]

If those moments really do work onscreen, we're be in for some top quality acting and direction.

[JimmyBond]

Why are you such an , Jim, and why does this website put up with you?

He's a moderator, if you didnt notice. The real question is, why does this website put up with you?

[stone cold]

^^^
yeah i second that emotion Jimmy. jesus i cant stand the creepy little whining stuff.
Hot damn!! this movie has got me in a state only maybe batman begins/harsh times has reached before.. almost mind-altering anticipation of CR and DC.. seriously im having dreams where i see the film! - think im going crazy.Something just feels so special and right about this.

bring on CR !!!! this film sounds so strong on paper its unreal.I hope it lives up to my expectations..but the script just sounds fantastic.

Edited by stone cold, 24 August 2006 - 04:34 PM.

[Matt_13]

Agreed with the two posts above me. Tinfinger you need to relax, seriously.

[Harmsway]

As an example of what I don't want to see: Remember Liam Neeson breaking down at the end of Schindler's List? It's a moment of great anguish for the character, but seeing him on his knees, sobbing, just doesn't work. It feels out of character.

The end of SCHINDLER'S LIST felt 100% in character to me. People have moments where they visibly break down and can't keep themselves composed, even if they are generally composed people.

These kind of moments are "out of character" for anyone in the sense that they usually don't fit with the pre-established behavior. But that's natural - we all have moments where we act differently than we usually do, where people wouldn't really recognize us. This moment, by all means, *should* be out of character for Bond - this is him entirely exposed and vulnerable for a man who would normally never allow himself to be so.

But I don't think it's going to be a full on sob-fest for Bond during this scene, anyhow. I do think Craig will really get to show off his acting chops, though, and that it should be intensely moving.

[Bond#9-GeorgeKemp]

As an example of what I don't want to see: Remember Liam Neeson breaking down at the end of Schindler's List? It's a moment of great anguish for the character, but seeing him on his knees, sobbing, just doesn't work. It feels out of character.

The end of SCHINDLER'S LIST felt 100% in character to me. People have moments where they visibly break down and can't keep themselves composed, even if they are generally composed people.

Thats true and I can see some situations (Bond's with Vesper being an example)being too much for some and even if its out of character, it can all get too much and they can break down.

With Bond in this situation however, I believe there is only so much we need to see. What is described in the script and what happens after seems to be within Bond's character and I think Daniel can show us Bond's huge emotion but in a way in which 'the wall' doesn't completely fall down. 'The Wall' being the kind of barrier (in Bond's character) that we will especially see come up after this event in Bond's life.

Sorry if that was a bit confusing guys!

*EDIT*
Just read Harmsway's post over and really I just said what he did again, so sorry about that Harmsway!

Edited by Bond#9-GeorgeKemp, 24 August 2006 - 11:28 PM.

[JCRendle]

Maybe because he doesn't swear at other memebers

[kneelbeforezod]

These kind of moments are "out of character" for anyone in the sense that they usually don't fit with the pre-established behavior. But that's natural - we all have moments where we act differently than we usually do, where people wouldn't really recognize us. This moment, by all means, *should* be out of character for Bond - this is him entirely exposed and vulnerable for a man who would normally never allow himself to be so.

But I don't think it's going to be a full on sob-fest for Bond during this scene, anyhow. I do think Craig will really get to show off his acting chops, though, and that it should be intensely moving.

Very interesting, I see what you're saying. Much more than any of the action scenes, this is going to be one of the toughest scenes for Campbell to handle I think.

Done well though, it should make the "bitch is dead" line really resonant and quite poignant possibly.

[kneelbeforezod]

These kind of moments are "out of character" for anyone in the sense that they usually don't fit with the pre-established behavior. But that's natural - we all have moments where we act differently than we usually do, where people wouldn't really recognize us. This moment, by all means, *should* be out of character for Bond - this is him entirely exposed and vulnerable for a man who would normally never allow himself to be so.

But I don't think it's going to be a full on sob-fest for Bond during this scene, anyhow. I do think Craig will really get to show off his acting chops, though, and that it should be intensely moving.

Very interesting, I see what you're saying. Much more than any of the action scenes, this is going to be one of the toughest scenes for Campbell to handle I think.

Done well though, it should make the "bitch is dead" line really resonant and quite poignant possibly.


Obviously my last post was so good it needed posting twice (and also I can't work out how to delete one of them! Mods!)

Edited by kneelbeforezod, 24 August 2006 - 11:54 PM.

[Jericho_One]

A question for script readers:

Spoiler

I can recall reading somewhere over the web that sometime during the movie Bond had a chip or tracking device or whatever implanted in his arm.
I may be mistaken, of course. Is this true?

Thanks a lot, gentlemen.

[Vauxhall]

A question for script readers:

Spoiler

I can recall reading somewhere over the web that sometime during the movie Bond had a chip or tracking device or whatever implanted in his arm.
I may be mistaken, of course. Is this true?

Thanks a lot, gentlemen.

True

[JimmyBond]

I see someone beat me to it

Yeah, it's true. It's also why

Spoiler

During the torture, Bond gets his wrist sliced into, to get the device out (as opposed to the novels reason).

[Jericho_One]

Thanks a lot, Vauxhall.

Spoiler

MI6 keeping a tight leash on its agents?

[Vauxhall]

Thanks a lot, Vauxhall.

Spoiler

MI6 keeping a tight leash on its agents?

Yup, you are correct but as JimmyBond pointed out, it doesn't remain in place for the entire duration of the movie.

[Jericho_One]

I see someone beat me to it

Yeah, it's true. It's also why

Spoiler

During the torture, Bond gets his wrist sliced into, to get the device out (as opposed to the novels reason).

Oh, I see it now. Again, thank you very much.
Funny how they found a way of having almost the same situation described in the novel happening after having cleared it from elements that wouldn't fit in this era.
Clever writers.

[Bond#9-GeorgeKemp]

Its not exactly the same as you'll probably know. (Highlight to read) In the novel, Bond has an M carved into the back of his hand (thats why in alot of books you'll see things like 'signs of plastic surgery on back of left hand') which I think stands for 'Smiert Spionum', SMERSH's motto. This is obviously out-dated so its had to b replaced by this tracking device.

This was just shameless nit-picking though so I'm sorry! I agree though, a clever trick by the writers. One of many!

[JCRendle]

in the novel the Russian sign means Spy

[Jericho_One]

Spoiler

SMERSH is a conjunction of two Russian words: "SMERt' SHpionam", (Смерть Шпионам), which means "Death to Spies".
Can't really remember what they carved on his hand in the novel though, it's been a long time since I've read it. It's probably the right time to do it again.

Nah, you can't get me. I wrote "almost" the same situation.
Anyway, it's a pretty good move by the writers.

Edited by Jericho_One, 25 August 2006 - 06:27 PM.

[Nicolas Suszczyk]

They carved the cyriclc letter SH... it's like a reversed "M".

[JCRendle]

eh? M reversed is M, surely?

[Agent Spriggan Ominae]

They carved the cyriclc letter SH... it's like a reversed "M".

They should have kept that. If they are going to have a new SPECTRE like group popping up and they can't use Blofeld but what if "SH" stood for something like I don't know.....maybe "Shatterhand".

Edit:Just noticed that I am have now reached the rank of Lieutentant!

Edited by Agent Spriggan Ominae, 28 August 2006 - 11:07 PM.

[iexpectu2die]

I'm really interested in the 'shower scene' with Vesper - it sounds nice and different for a Bond film, but from the fragments of info I have heard, it sounds like a subdued, almost silent scene which is driven by mime and movement rather than dialogue.

Can anyone tell me what the atmosphere is like, and what happens?

[Bondesque]

The shower scene is very well written. Little or no dialogue if I recall but incredibly powerful. It is serious and will require acting chops to pull it off well. Craig and Eva can pull it off in spades if Campbell gives the scene quality direction.

That is the major difference with this script when compaired to Bonds of the past (at least since FRWL). CR is no doubt a Bond film but it also takes itself seriously as a dramatic story and film. This script would be a great film even if the lead character was named John Smith. The story simply works well.

My only concern is if Campbell is up to the level of script. From what I have seen thus far I am optimistic.

[Bond#9-GeorgeKemp]

I liked the shower scene alot ready it. It seemed to me to be a very tender, quiet scene and a nice break from some of the actions but also a mark that this movie is different from previous Bonds.

It shows a different side to Bond that we havn't seen before and a vunerable side to vesper. Its an integral scene in the movie which shows a turning point in the pairs relationship.

I also think its a clever idea, obvious echos of Macbeth in the blood idea.

[DamnCoffee]

agreed I'm looking really forward to it

[Shrublands]

I liked the shower scene alot ready it. It seemed to me to be a very tender, quiet scene and a nice break from some of the actions but also a mark that this movie is different from previous Bonds.

It shows a different side to Bond that we havn't seen before and a vunerable side to vesper. Its an integral scene in the movie which shows a turning point in the pairs relationship.

I also think its a clever idea, obvious echos of Macbeth in the blood idea.

Yes, the Macbeth reference struck me too: not being able to wash off the blood that was actually gone but remains in the conscience. And remember that Lady Macbeth eventually kills herself because she can

[DamnCoffee]

I never thought of it that way

[Matt_13]

Me neither, good catch.