165 replies to this topic

[Gobi-1]

I'm very pleased to see the writers adapting characters from Fleming's other stories for Casino Royale. Personally I think there's enough unused material and titles from the novels for three of four films.

[Doctor Shatterhand]

I'm very pleased to see the writers adapting characters from Fleming's other stories for Casino Royale. Personally I think there's enough unused material and titles from the novels for three of four films.

As well as the John Pearson novel - JAMES BOND: THE AUTHORIZED BIOGRAPHY OF 007. Allegedly the name Demetrios may have been lifted from there.

[Mister Asterix]

I, for one, don't like this news. The villain is not named Le Chiffre? And he's young? Leiter may not be Leiter? Mathis isn't Mathis? And he's old? No Basil or The Corsican? This is not my (nor Fleming's) Casino Royale. Granted, some updating of the plot needs to be done, but surely it's not that hard to keep these great characters much like they were in the novel while at the same time updating the plot. This news is not soothing my worries for the film--it's only making them worse. First the reboot and now this. (Shudder) I'm afraid to think of what might come next. (Maybe those Jessica Simpson rumors ARE true.) 

[mra]Where does it say the villain is not named

[tdalton]

I'll admit, this whole premise does sound like it's an interesting idea for a film, and it is cool to see that some other Fleming characters are finally getting their due. My problem is that this is not Casino Royale. I mean, we don't even know if they're going to call the main villain Le Chiffre or not? Casino Royale has a great storyline that could very easily be adapted into a film and updated to fit into modern times with some new material added, but this concept is a completely different tale with only slight similarities (2 character names and the title) to Fleming's novel.

One thing that is definite now, however, is that the intro line "Albert R. Brocolli Presents...." should not say "Ian Fleming's Casino Royale". If anything, it should read "Ian Fleming's James Bond 007 in Neil Purvis, Robert Wade, and Paul Haggis' Casino Royale".

Also, with so many characters in the film, it's starting to resemble 1967's Casino Royale a little bit.

[blueman]

I imagine the 20-30 minutes worth of usable plot from CR the novel will be encased somewhere in all of the new material...

Just don't buy that CR the novel is filmable as a Bond film these days, they need to do what they're doing, IMHO.

[Stax]

Someone asked me what I thought about it being only a few weeks from filming and roles are still uncast. I say it probably happens more than you know. I figure the filmmakers probably know who they want but actual physical contracts have not been signed off on. This whole Vesper search all smells like another Sony situation of testing and retesting everyone, going to stars only to end up with the person Eon wanted all along.

[Streetworker]

Perhaps this should be moved to the spoiler forum?

Anyhoo, Le Chiffre possibly in his 20s then? And at least two Bond babes other than Vesper Lynd? A Felix Leiter possibly not called Felix Leiter? Sudanese army commander? We're a long way from 1952, but it looks like they may have added more complexity to the story.

Or watered it down.

[Ace Roberts]

Someone asked me what I thought about it being only a few weeks from filming and roles are still uncast. I say it probably happens more than you know. I figure the filmmakers probably know who they want but actual physical contracts have not been signed off on. This whole Vesper search all smells like another Sony situation of testing and retesting everyone, going to stars only to end up with the person Eon wanted all along.

Thanks, Stax. Hadn't thought of it from that standpoint. I still wouldn't be surprised to see them delay PP, though.

[spynovelfan]

Someone asked me what I thought about it being only a few weeks from filming and roles are still uncast. I say it probably happens more than you know. I figure the filmmakers probably know who they want but actual physical contracts have not been signed off on. This whole Vesper search all smells like another Sony situation of testing and retesting everyone, going to stars only to end up with the person Eon wanted all along.

Yes, it does. I think Cecile de France has it.

And it isn't new for a Bond production to be late in casting. Sometimes they have been so late that they've just shipped the person in without ever hearing them speak English - Andress, Frobe. Sometimes they have switched at the last minute: Pleasance. Not a new phenomenon. Making a Bond film is a little like Miles Davis' KIND OF BLUE: a massive amount of improvisation around a fixed basic structure.

[Stax]

And you should all recall that Dalton was cast so late that he wrapped BRENDA STARR on a Friday, got on a plane to Malta on a Saturday and was still jet-lagged when he began filming TLD on Monday.

[Judo chop]

And you should all recall that Dalton was cast so late that he wrapped BRENDA STARR on a Friday, got on a plane to Malta on a Saturday and was still jet-lagged when he began filming TLD on Monday.

...thus why he appears to be so angry throughout the film.

[dinovelvet]

The looks like another overloaded Bond in the same mannner of TMD or DAD.  It looks to have two or three villians Demetrius, Solari and possibly another villain in late twenties.  There appears to have multiple love interests Vesper and I assume that Demetrius' wife Solange and the unamed villain's girlfriend must come under Bond's spell.  Plus American and French agents who may or may not be Leiter and Mathis.  Will there be the Sudanese army to contend with similarly to the North Koreans? I have to ask why bother to get the rights to Casino Royale and them film Die Another Day 2

Over-reacting a bit? All the Bond films have many, many villains. Some will have larger roles than others. I suspect at least one of these characters will have little more than five minutes of screen time; for all we know one of them might be only in the pre-title sequence. Demetrius could be the equivalent of, say, the South African gangster Bond punches out in DAD. Pick any Bond film at random, and you'll find it has far more villains than you might have thought. Let's say, FYEO, here are all the evil people in it that Bond goes up against :

Blofeld
Kristatos
Locque
Kriegler
Gonzalez

If the internet was around in 1981, would we all be freaking out saying "FIVE villains in the next Bond film? They're going over the top! It'll be Moonraker all over again!!!"

[spynovelfan]

And you should all recall that Dalton was cast so late that he wrapped BRENDA STARR on a Friday, got on a plane to Malta on a Saturday and was still jet-lagged when he began filming TLD on Monday.

...thus why he appears to be so angry throughout the film.

No, it's because he was a method actor and he felt he absolutely had to read all the books so he could properly embody Fleming's character. And he'd only got as far as the opening chapters of MOONRAKER when filming started. He looks pissed off for the whole film because he wants to get back to his trailer and find out how Drax was cheating.

[Judo chop]

So far they are doing everything right.

1. Bond 21 = Casino Royale.
2. A significant focus on the relationship between Bond and Vesper.
3. Torture scene in.
4. "The bitch is dead" in.
5. One explosion.
6. Despite #5, there is still a large budget which I assume will go into typical Bond necessities such as large, detailed sets and worldwide locations.
7. Promises of a more raw, gritty Bond.
8. To back-up #7... Daniel Craig.
9. Paul Haggis.
10. Paul Haggis. (One to fix Purvis' dialogue and the other to fix Wade's).

That list is not exhaustive.

What's negative?

1. Bond doesn't smoke.
2. Craig is blonde.
3. It's not EXACTLY Fleming's Casino Royale. What... there are new characters in the film? See Dinovelvet's post above.

Happy as a clam over here.

[Mister Asterix]

IGN turns up a 'Royale' scoop

[Johnboy007]

Everything sounds like this is going to shape up to be a real winner.

I truly can not wait for November!

[gadgetfusion]

Sure, this movie sounds like it'll be good.

[triviachamp]

As for the "bitch is dead" line, given the alleged involvement of a number of female characters, one wonders whether that's actually going to refer to Vesper... no indication that it does. Line may well be there, at the end of the film, but... y'know... it could happen.

Yeah I wonder where exactly the line will be used and what the final scene of the movie will be like.

[Double-Oh Agent]

Am I the only one who has found a link to the name Demetrios?

Demetrios, a large Greek man with dark eyes, a swarthy face with a small gray wart beside his nose.  Bond became friends with him instantly until Demetrios introduces himself as the gun runner whose been supplying the EOKA terrorist in Cyprus.  Bond leaves a limpet device under Demetrios' ship, The Sapphos, which explodes 24 hours later and killing all on board.  -  from JAMES BOND: THE AUTHORIZED BIOGRAPHY OF OO7.

I'm not saying that this is the character lifted from this novel, but I do think it is interesting to see some similarities.

I considered that as well when I saw the name but I didn't think EON would/could take a character from a continuation novel. If it's the case, hopefully, this is a start of a trend that will extend into adapting the Amis/Gardner/Benson books. As for Solonge, I suspect, as has been mentioned, that it is a misspelling of Solange.

One thing I think that could be done to make the end of the film more exciting is the Adolph Gettler character following/stalking Bond and Vesper throughout 007's recouperation time (much like the book) which leads to Vesper getting more and more nervous and building up the film's suspense. Then toward the end, while Bond and Vesper are making love Gettler appears outside their window ready to assassinate the two of them but Bond's training comes into effect and he kills Gettler before the latter can accomplish his mission--a la the end of Gardner's novel, Role Of Honor. It would then be this instance that drives Vesper over the edge. Knowing that she and Bond will never be safe together and that her life is empty without him, is what ultimately leads her to commit suicide.

[MrDraco]

Smell's like DAD spirit...
Well the scripts out,
here we are now cast us
acting stupid and well you know the rest...i think they took alot of from the first draft of dad and threw it together lol, perhapes that golf scene will make here hahaha changed countries etc

[Bon-san]

I felt a bit deflated after reading that report.

Of course it's unsourced, and it could be speculative. But if what's posted in the article is really what's happening with the production, it doesn't really feel like the approach I'd been hoping for. When Craig was first announced, there was much talk of, and I had wonderful visions of, a lean, taut, dark, edgy thriller. While reading that article, I got the DAD redux visions.

As to the "hold the phone, nothing to worry about!" sentiment, perhaps there isn't. But my feelings are my feelings.

In any event, DAD II could be great fun. Should've kept Pierce or hired Gerry Butler if they were going that way, though.

[tdalton]

In any event, DAD II could be great fun.  Should've kept Pierce or hired Gerry Butler if they were going that way, though. 

You're absolutely right. Pierce Brosnan would have been a better Bond for the movie that we're now going to be given. Die Another Day 2, which is what CR has now become, is a Brosnan type Bond movie. So much for what Michael Wilson said at the press conference about wanting to do something different for themselves, and thus the necessity to recast the role. All they're doing is making the same film with a different coat of paint. I fear that Daniel Craig's talents are going to go to waste in this film. It's a shame. I'm no longer excited about Die Another Day 2.

[Bon-san]

[quote name='tdalton' date='11 January 2006 - 22:10'][quote name='Bon-san' date='11 January 2006 - 21:41']In any event, DAD II could be great fun.

[Ace Roberts]

[quote name='tdalton' date='11 January 2006 - 21:10'][quote name='Bon-san' date='11 January 2006 - 21:41']In any event, DAD II could be great fun.

Edited by Ace Roberts, 12 January 2006 - 03:43 AM.

[Bon-san]

I think it is ridiculous to compare movies when you don't even have the script in hand.

I once posted a brilliant analysis of the shot-by-shot similarities between Yojimbo and A Fistful of Dollars, and I never even saw the script from either film.

Look, we're just blowing off steam here. I didn't like the vibe I got from that report. Maybe I'll go gaga over the next one.

And if I have to take everytime I don't paint pink rainbows over CR, it's really going to suck around here.

[triviachamp]

I once posted a brilliant analysis of the shot-by-shot similarities between Yojimbo and A Fistful of Dollars, and I never even saw the script from either film. 

I think you should compare them all to Red Harvest

[tdalton]

I think it is ridiculous to compare movies when you don't even have the script in hand.

I once posted a brilliant analysis of the shot-by-shot similarities between Yojimbo and A Fistful of Dollars, and I never even saw the script from either film.

Look, we're just blowing off steam here. I didn't like the vibe I got from that report. Maybe I'll go gaga over the next one.

And if I have to take everytime I don't paint pink rainbows over CR, it's really going to suck around here.

I know I don't say it very often, Bon-san, but I completely agree with you on this one. I get a bad vibe from the report as well, and it's great to have someplace to talk about it with others.

[Ace Roberts]

I think it is ridiculous to compare movies when you don't even have the script in hand.

I once posted a brilliant analysis of the shot-by-shot similarities between Yojimbo and A Fistful of Dollars, and I never even saw the script from either film.

Look, we're just blowing off steam here. I didn't like the vibe I got from that report. Maybe I'll go gaga over the next one.

And if I have to take everytime I don't paint pink rainbows over CR, it's really going to suck around here.

Hey, everyone is entitled to their opinion and I was just blowing off steam as well. I'm not pro or con on the current situation because, frankly, who knows how all of it will fit together. It may be DAD2 - but until proven otherwise - I'm taking EON at their word that it won't. I just would love to hear some real official news and get a warm fuzzy that the cast is intact and filming is going to begin.

[Bon-san]

I just would love to hear some real official news and get a warm fuzzy that the cast is intact and filming is going to begin.

With you on that.

[Double-Oh Agent]

This IGN article makes me think of Casino Royale being the new Moonraker. A classic 007 story being updated to fit modern times with only a few elements carrying over from the novel. (CR will keep the gambling, the torture, and the final line; MR kept the Moonraker shuttle/rocket and a duplicitous villain). Another example is that at the moment the only confirmed character's name in CR that remains the same is Vesper Lynd; in MR it was Hugo Drax.

While that may sound good to Moonraker lovers out there (Qwerty?), I'm not sold on it. Yet. Sure, Casino Royale may turn out to be a good film--and I hope it does--but I just can't help feeling disappointed on the whole from what I've seen and heard so far.

Ever since I got excited about learning that Bond 21 was going to be Casino Royale, I've learned that my favorite Bond (Pierce Brosnan) was not going to be back for a fifth film, that the movie would be a completely unnecessary reboot, and now this--a major overhaul of the story and reworking of characters. As a result, my original big enthusiasm for Casino Royale is slowly waning away. Don't get me wrong, I'm still looking forward to the film--it is a Bond movie after all...isn't it?--but now that excitement is tinged with some trepidation. I'm sure I'll feel better after seeing some rough footage but until then I can't help feeling that the producers MAY, I repeat may, be taking the wrong route with this film.

Hopefully the script is as good as everybody says it is. Fortunately, EON was smart enough to hire Daniel Craig as 007. At least I have that news to take comfort in.