2081 replies to this topic

[tdalton]

As far as a villain for the third film, I would love to see Nolan do a realistic take on Mr. Freeze.

Spoiler

As for the fact that Two-Face dies in THE DARK KNIGHT, I have to say that I'm thoroughly disappointed by that news. For me, Dent/Two-Face was far and away the most interesting aspect of THE DARK KNIGHT, even moreso than Ledger's Joker. Two-Face has always been my favorite of the Batman villains, and while I do realize that the way that Nolan had set the character up probably didn't lend itself to having Two-Face as THE feature villain of BATMAN 3, I would have liked to have seen the character continue on for at least another film in some capacity.

The article that was posted about Oldman saying that the Riddler was available as a villain does raise the obvious point that the Riddler is the most likely villain for BATMAN 3. Given the fact that Two-Face can't be brought back (which is a shame, IMO) and the decisions facing Nolan about whether to recast the Joker (which I think he should as I would doubt that Ledger would want to have the character that he worked so hard to create just to vanish from the storyline), the Riddler is really the best choice for a villain that they have, apart from going down the route of doing the KNIGHTFALL storyline, which would be the only context in which I would want to see Bane featured as a villain. KNIGHTFALL, however, should happen much later in the franchise as opposed to this point in the franchise, IMO, so I can't say that I would be interested in seeing Bane in BATMAN 3

[Qwerty]

I am very looking forward to this movie.

I'm a big fan of Batman



BTW, the new poster: The new Dark Knight poster - www.Comingsoon.net

Wow. Fantastic stuff.

[Agent 76]

If they re-cast the role of The Joker in the near future, I would like to see what Johnny Depp would do with it.

[Harmsway]

As far as a villain for the third film, I would love to see Nolan do a realistic take on Mr. Freeze.

I love Mr. Freeze, but I don't think you can do a realistic take on someone who needs to keep their body below freezing point and has an ice cannon as a weapon.

[Jim]

As far as a villain for the third film, I would love to see Nolan do a realistic take on Mr. Freeze.

I love Mr. Freeze, but I don't think you can do a realistic take on someone who needs to keep their body below freezing point and has an ice cannon as a weapon.

Whereas a billionaire who dresses as a rubber rodent is realistic?

[Harmsway]

Whereas a billionaire who dresses as a rubber rodent is realistic?

Of course not. This whole franchise is unrealistic, but Nolan has established boundaries for how far into fantasy his take on the Batman universe will go. I think Mr. Freeze lies outside that boundary, and there's no way to tone him down enough without violating what makes the character who he is.

(Oh, and bats aren't rodents.)

[Jim]

Whereas a billionaire who dresses as a rubber rodent is realistic?

Of course not. This whole franchise is unrealistic, but Nolan has established boundaries for how far into fantasy the his take on the Batman universe will go. I think Mr. Freeze lies outside that boundary, and there's no way to tone him down enough without violating what makes the character who he is.

(Oh, and bats aren't rodents.)

True.

Kapow! etc.

[Navy007Fan]

Here is the Warner Brothers Records official site for the sound track CD.

[tdalton]

As far as a villain for the third film, I would love to see Nolan do a realistic take on Mr. Freeze.

I love Mr. Freeze, but I don't think you can do a realistic take on someone who needs to keep their body below freezing point and has an ice cannon as a weapon.

They could change a few things around to make him fit into Nolan's Batman world, especially in light of:

Spoiler

that the Joker just applies white makeup to his face rather than having his entire body being that bleached-white that the character is famous for. They took that and made it realistic, and while that's not to the extreme of Mr. Freeze, the fact that the entire Batman universe is completely ludicrous to begin with, no matter how much they try to make it gritty and realistic, would lead me to believe that perhaps Nolan could find some sort of somewhat plausible way to do the character of Mr. Freeze justice on screen. Maybe take away the ice cannon as that's not a realistic weapon, and focus more on the character's background as a scientist and how the character is very much like Two-Face in that a tragic event has turned him from a good guy into a villain rather than someone who is just mentally unbalanced like the Joker

[Harmsway]

They could change a few things around to make him fit into Nolan's Batman world, especially in light of that the Joker just applies white makeup to his face rather than having his entire body being that bleached-white that the character is famous for.

Sure. But changing that aspect doesn't hurt the Joker's persona. Whether the look is make-up or bleached on, the Joker's still the Joker underneath.

If you alter Mr. Freeze's basic identity - that he can't exist at a temperature above freezing - then you've entirely lost the character, since everything about Mr. Freeze is bound up in that. And I say this as a huge fan of the character... his episodes are among the best in the Animated Series (which was the first version of Batman to make him a worthwhile character). I just don't think he's a natural pick for the Nolanverse, just like Man-Bat or Clayface.

Nevermind that I have a really hard time making him fit the plot or thematic direction of what part III, given what THE DARK KNIGHT lays out for it to accomplish.

[Mister E]

As far as a villain for the third film, I would love to see Nolan do a realistic take on Mr. Freeze.

I love Mr. Freeze, but I don't think you can do a realistic take on someone who needs to keep their body below freezing point and has an ice cannon as a weapon.

You can't but I think it's about time Nolan can inject a little more fantasy into the Bat films with Mr. Freeze.

[Harmsway]

You can't but I think it's about time Nolan can inject a little more fantasy into the Bat films with Mr. Freeze.

Nah.

Nolan should (and will) keep his three films consistent with one another on this point. Then he'll bow out, and then let somebody else start taking it in a different direction. I want BEGINS, THE DARK KNIGHT, and part III (THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS, perhaps?) to run pretty smoothly together.

[Mister E]

You can't but I think it's about time Nolan can inject a little more fantasy into the Bat films with Mr. Freeze.

Nah, Nolan should keep his three films consistent with one another, bow out, and then let somebody else start taking it in a different direction. I want BEGINS, THE DARK KNIGHT, and part III (THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS, perhaps?) to run pretty smoothly together.

I don't see what would be so bad including more fantastic characters under Nolan's Direction. This is Batman, a comic book superhero. You can also ease these things in slowlly.

[tdalton]

They could change a few things around to make him fit into Nolan's Batman world, especially in light of that the Joker just applies white makeup to his face rather than having his entire body being that bleached-white that the character is famous for.

Sure. But changing that aspect doesn't hurt the Joker's persona. Whether the look is make-up or bleached on, the Joker's still the Joker underneath.

If you alter Mr. Freeze's basic identity - that he can't exist at a temperature above freezing - then you've entirely lost the character, since everything about Mr. Freeze is bound up in that. And I say this as a huge fan of the character... his episodes are among the best in the Animated Series (which was the first version of Batman to make him a worthwhile character). I just don't think he's a natural pick for the Nolanverse, just like Man-Bat or Clayface.

Nevermind that I have a really hard time making him fit the plot or thematic direction of what part III, given what THE DARK KNIGHT lays out for it to accomplish.

Spoiler

I see where you're coming from on this, and I agree for the most part, but I'm just not sure what other villains are left that they could craft an entire, feature-length film around that would appeal to audiences that wouldn't be the more fantastical type of characters. I don't think that Bane could really work in Nolan's Batman universe without being significantly altered. There's the Riddler, but I'm not sure that an entire film could be built around his character. Granted, there are other minor villains in the Batman world that Nolan could adapt to fit the tone of his films, but I'm not sure that they're going to be of the stature of the Joker, Two-Face, or the Riddler in that they would be enough to pull people into the theaters in the way that those three villains would. Sure, they could go with Catwoman, but I would have to imagine that after the debacle that the Halle Berry CATWOMAN film was that the studio would be rushing to put the Catwoman character into the Batman franchise.

I suppose that we could see the return of the Joker and I would be satisfied with that (and in a possible casting note, I think that someone like Joaquin Phoenix could be a good choice to take on the role if Nolan decides to bring him back), but there would have to be another villain to go along with him as he would be a character that we've already seen in Nolan's franchise.

[Harmsway]

I don't see what would be so bad including more fantastic characters under Nolan's Direction.

Because they're not compatible with the boundaries Nolan has already established for his vision, and would actually serve to undermine it.

I see where you're coming from on this, and I agree for the most part, but I'm just not sure what other villains are left that they could craft an entire, feature-length film around that would appeal to audiences that wouldn't be the more fantastical type of characters.

I think Nolan's job for the third film is to take a somewhat less impressive villain and transform them into someone on the level of the greats. It's doable (heck, Mr. Freeze was a worthless character until the animated series came around), even with folks like the Riddler. Yes, the Riddler as he's known now couldn't carry a film... but maybe Nolan's Riddler could.

You put a Nolanized Riddler as the head honcho (but more of a background mastermind working through other folks), have Catwoman in there to throw in her brand of romance and confusion, and then put in David Cain as an assassin hired by the dwindling criminal element in a last-ditch attempt to take out Batman, and you have the beginnings of one solid narrative. Maybe you could even bring Hugo Strange in.

Sure, they could go with Catwoman, but I would have to imagine that after the debacle that the Halle Berry CATWOMAN film was that the studio would be rushing to put the Catwoman character into the Batman franchise.

After all Nolan's accomplished, I think he has carte blanche to do whatever he wants. If he wants Catwoman (and it's been rumored that he does), he'll get Catwoman.

[sharpshooter]

Here is the Warner Brothers Records official site for the sound track CD.

Nice. Listen to 'Why So Serious' - that's got to be the two note theme for The Joker. You can hear it with clanging on top of it. In 'Aggressive Expansion' it comes up again at the end. It's just the prologue music, but it may get more high pitched and screeching as the film progresses.

[Mister E]

Because they're not compatible with the boundaries Nolan has already established for his vision, and would actually serve to undermine it.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I personally think it would fascinating if Nolan managed to take characters such as Freeze and Clayface and put them in his universe and break those boundaries. I think setting those limits hurt the Scarecrow IMO, not that much but I think he should have gone a bit more far out with him.

You put a Nolanized Riddler as the head honcho (but more of a background mastermind working through other folks

That could work but still, it would be tough for Riddler to carry a whole film. Maybe he could start off as how he was portrayed in THE LONG HOLLOWEEN and DARK VICTORY and become progressively evil perhaps ?

Edited by Mister E, 03 July 2008 - 02:47 AM.

[Harmsway]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I personally think it would fascinating if Nolan managed to take characters such as Freeze and Clayface and put them in his universe and break those boundaries. I think setting those limits hurt the Scarecrow IMO, not that much but I think he should have gone a bit more far out with him.

Then I'm guessing you're just not sold on Nolan's vision to begin with, because what you're suggesting he do pretty much violates everything he's trying to do with this franchise.

At some point, I'd like to see a vision between Nolan's and a more fantastical approach (perhaps the next director after Nolan can push into that territory), but for this initial trilogy, I want the Nolan approach as established in BEGINS. I love it. Thankfully, I'm 100% sure I'll get that. Nolan's not going to violate the rules he already put in place.

You put a Nolanized Riddler as the head honcho (but more of a background mastermind working through other folks

That could work but still, it would be tough for Riddler to carry a whole film.

Only if you're thinking of the Riddler we currently have. I'm interested in seeing an entirely reimagined Riddler.

[sharpshooter]

The Riddler is my favourite Batman villain, next to The Joker. He is one of the hardest characters to write a plot for, too. I agree, I'd rethink the Riddler if he appeared in a third film. Perhaps have him as a gothic looking, techno savvy Jigsaw type who sets intricate traps. Just something fresh and different but remaining faithful to what the character is essentially about.

The writers and directors continue to bend Batman in different ways for variety. Look at Nolan’s Joker, it’s different and like nothing else we’ve seen before, but still fundamentally The Joker. He’s the Joker of our times. They could do the exact thing for The Riddler. They could look to the interpretation seen in 'The Batman', where he is given a more detailed and sympathetic back story.

[Mister E]

Then I'm guessing you're just not sold on Nolan's vision to begin with, because what you're suggesting he do pretty much violates everything he's trying to do with this franchise.

Just because I found some flaws dosen't mean I was not sold. His vision was not perfect but I did enjoy it.

Only if you're thinking of the Riddler we currently have. I'm interested in seeing an entirely reimagined Riddler.

I am thinking about the strongest portryals of the character yet like in HUSH and the BATMAN ANIMATED SERIES. I think Nolan could do it but still, it's going to be tough.

[Harmsway]

The Riddler is my favourite Batman villain, next to The Joker. He is one of the hardest characters to write a plot for, too. I agree, I'd rethink the Riddler if he appeared in a third film. Perhaps have him as a gothic looking, techno savvy Jigsaw type who sets intricate traps. Just something fresh and different but remaining faithful to what the character is essentially about.

Quite so (though the "Jigsaw Riddler" is perhaps a bit too close to their spin on the Joker, and so it might be best to go in a non-grunge direction).

Only if you're thinking of the Riddler we currently have. I'm interested in seeing an entirely reimagined Riddler.

I am thinking about the strongest portryals of the character yet like in HUSH and the BATMAN ANIMATED SERIES.

Well my point still stands. The ANIMATED SERIES and HUSH did do a great job of giving the Riddler some menace, but not depth, and that's really the battle Nolan has to fight. It wouldn't be easy, but I'd love to see what Nolan could come up with given room to play with the character.

[Andrew]

Personally the only character I want revisited from the earlier films is Catwoman. Besides that, I want to see some of the lesser villains portrayed on screen such as Black Mask and Talia al Ghul.

Spoiler

My biggest concern, as I said earlier, is finding a villain that can be more intimidating than The Joker and cause Gotham to turn back to Batman. I really can't think of any villain besides The Joker himself who could inspire that.

[coco1997]

Don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet, but could Bane work? I mean, the REAL Bane?

[Icephoenix]

I just don't think he's a natural pick for the Nolanverse, just like Man-Bat or Clayface.

Clayface could work - provided he was based upon the original Clayface, Basil Karlo (who was merely an actor who snapped and killed people wearing the costume of a monster he played in a horror film) and not a creature made from a clay like substance. Like all the characters Nolan was brought back so far, he'd need some updating and changes to make him fit.

But I'd love to see Nolan bring in Black Mask most of all.

[Agent 76]

I wonder how would Nolan re-create the Penguin character at this time in the franchise. In the No Man's Land series, I think the Penguin was an Arms traffic kingpin, I'm not sure.

[baerrtt]

You can't but I think it's about time Nolan can inject a little more fantasy into the Bat films with Mr. Freeze.

Nah, Nolan should keep his three films consistent with one another, bow out, and then let somebody else start taking it in a different direction. I want BEGINS, THE DARK KNIGHT, and part III (THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS, perhaps?) to run pretty smoothly together.

I don't see what would be so bad including more fantastic characters under Nolan's Direction. This is Batman, a comic book superhero. You can also ease these things in slowlly.

From early reviews it seems that Nolan has been given carte blanche to make what may turn out to be the bleakest summer blockbuster ever. The 9/11 allusions, the supposed fate(s) of one or more of the main characters, an ending which......well I won't spoil it but anyone with access to spoilers knows what I'm getting at. Nolan's vision has been/is to inject reality into a fantasy world and that fact his Joker wears makeup and is not the comic based origin (nuclear waste immersion) says it all.

Characters like Mr Freeze or Man Bat, irrespective of whether the Bruce Timm ANIMATED (the clue's there) series gave him depth or not, can't be done as Harms has described to fit into Nolan's vision. If people find it limiting theres always the comics, animated shows etc to take up their time.

[Agent 76]

THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS


Batman - Christian Bale

Alfred - Michael Caine

Lucius Fox - Morgan Freeman

Joker - Johnny Depp

The Riddler - Kevin Spacey

well....a fan can dream.

[sharpshooter]

If you alter Mr. Freeze's basic identity - that he can't exist at a temperature above freezing - then you've entirely lost the character, since everything about Mr. Freeze is bound up in that.

Yep, agreed. Keep Freeze away from the Nolan universe. There'd be no point in having him as an ice dealer with his nickname being 'Mr Freeze', for example. I'd love to see him done properly in another set of films though.

[bond 16.05.72]

Going to see this on the 25th in Birmingham in the UK on the IMAX screen there. I will be checking it out on the normal screen after.

I need to stop reading reviews of this film and probably not open anymore spoilers up on this thread but I don't seem to be able to help it, I was one of the biggest advoactes of Begins and have anticipated this since I walked of the cinema in 2005 for the first time (I returned for a 2nd viewing a few weeks later)

This is going to be awesome, I really can't see Quantum topping this but I'm up to be proved wrong.

The 25th couldn't come any quicker!

[Agent 76]

Hey guys, I caught this interview with Christopher Nolan on darkhorizons.com, enjoy.



http://www.darkhoriz...erviews/dk2.php