152 replies to this topic

[Jim]

I don't expect to convince any of the unbelievers.....just like they should not expect to convince me.

It's not going to happen. That's like telling me that Never Say Never Again is a terrible film....nothing is going to shake me in my conviction that its a great film.

That's like trying to convince doublenoughtspy that On Her Majesty’s Secret Service is a terrible film - good luck!

(just to erase any confusion, On Her Majesty’s Secret Service is my third favorite 007 movie so I was not knocking it).

Hmm, but your Never Say Never Again point is opinion; this Hargreaves stuff you are seeking to assert as fact; a different nature to the argument, surely?


dirtydirtydirtydirtydirty

[DLibrasnow]

I don't expect to convince any of the unbelievers.....just like they should not expect to convince me.

It's not going to happen. That's like telling me that Never Say Never Again is a terrible film....nothing is going to shake me in my conviction that its a great film.

That's like trying to convince doublenoughtspy that On Her Majesty’s Secret Service is a terrible film - good luck!

(just to erase any confusion, On Her Majesty’s Secret Service is my third favorite 007 movie so I was not knocking it).

Hmm, but your Never Say Never Again point is opinion; this Hargreaves stuff you are seeking to assert as fact; a different nature to the argument, surely?


dirtydirtydirtydirtydirty

Jim, I disagree I think that this Hargreaves stuff is opinion also, and I am trying to illustrate the futility of trying to change someones opinion.
As I said - I don't expect to change anyone elses opinion. I'm just saying, don't expect to change mine - because it's not going to happen.

[doublenoughtspy]

Or David Hedison...as Felix Leiter in one movie and -- wow, Felix Leiter in a second movie.

Yes - and he is called that and listed in the credits in both films as Felix Leiter.

Whereas in SWLM and OP, AVTAK, TLD, and LTK - Brown is credited as one character in the first, and a different character in the other 4.

[Jim]

I don't expect to convince any of the unbelievers.....just like they should not expect to convince me.

It's not going to happen. That's like telling me that Never Say Never Again is a terrible film....nothing is going to shake me in my conviction that its a great film.

That's like trying to convince doublenoughtspy that On Her Majesty’s Secret Service is a terrible film - good luck!

(just to erase any confusion, On Her Majesty’s Secret Service is my third favorite 007 movie so I was not knocking it).

Hmm, but your Never Say Never Again point is opinion; this Hargreaves stuff you are seeking to assert as fact; a different nature to the argument, surely?


dirtydirtydirtydirtydirty

Jim, I disagree I think that this Hargreaves stuff is opinion also, and I am trying to illustrate the futility of trying to change someones opinion.
As I said - I don't expect to change anyone elses opinion. I'm just saying, don't expect to change mine - because it's not going to happen.

Fair enough.

(I really don't care; but whether that statement is credible given my involvement in this thread...)

In the second edition of her James Bond Movie Book (or whatever it was called), an Eon-licensed thingy, Sally Hibbin continually refers to a character in Licence to Kill as "Dano" rather than "Dario".

Accordingly, this proves to me that the character's name is Dano and if Licence to Kill ever comes into my conversation (this doesn't happen often, fortunately), I shall refer to this character as such, because it pleases me so. No-one will be able to dissuade me from this view because the Eon-licensed book says that's what he's called and I'm going with that.

[DLibrasnow]

In the second edition of her James Bond Movie Book (or whatever it was called), an Eon-licensed thingy, Sally Hibbin continually refers to a character in Licence to Kill as "Dano" rather than "Dario".

Accordingly, this proves to me that the character's name is Dano and if Licence to Kill ever comes into my conversation (this doesn't happen often, fortunately), I shall refer to this character as such, because it pleases me so. No-one will be able to dissuade me from this view because the Eon-licensed book says that's what he's called and I'm going with that.

LOL - Good luck with that

[Mister Asterix]

[mra]Book

[spynovelfan]

dirtydirtydirtydirtydirty

feelingthesamefeelingthesamebutcan'thelpmyself...


I wonder if we can't use this, indeed, rather small point, to make a wider one. It's about a trend in Bond fandom towards Chinese whispers.

Darren, you are a massive Bond fan. At the risk of getting too Larry Groznic or pompous about it, isn't it, in a way, your 'duty' as a Bond fan to stamp out annoying little myths and unworkable theories and idle speculation taken as the truth about James Bond? Okay, that was very Larry Groznic and pompous! Put another way: if someone says in a pub that George Lazenby was an extra in LTK, don't you pipe up before the idea breaks out of the pub and runs down the street?

Although there's no proof for it in the films, the idea that Hargreaves was M was a fairly plausible theory. We'd seen the same actor as an Admiral; Messervy had also been an Admiral, so it looks like Admirals are liked by MI6. One can see it happening. However, Mister *'s spotting that as M he is a vice-admiral moves the theory from a nice bit of speculation to fantasy. It's no longer just something that hasn't been mentioned. For the theory to work now, we have to invent an entire backstory to explain why this admiral was demoted - and then appointed head of MI6! I could equally develop a theory that Dikko Henderson was, in fact, Blofeld in disguise. That, like Bond at the start of the film, he had his death faked in order to make MI6 and others believe he was dead. That the 'Blofeld' we saw at the end of YOLT, played by Donald Pleasance, was in fact an impostor, and that it was he who we saw at the start of DAF being killed in the mud. This is a more outlandish theory, certainly, but it's essentially what you're doing. It's one thing for there to be no references to M being Hargreaves - quite another to have to create a story to support the idea.

Why insist on the idea, then? And what's the basis for your conviction it's the case?

We all leap on newspapers and magazines when they start getting Bond wrong. Shouldn't we, then, try not to? Lee Tamahori had a theory that 'James Bond' was a codename passed down between MI6 agents. We all shot it to bits, because there's stuff in the films that contradicts it. You have to start explaining why they all like the exact same drink, for starters. That alone blows a hole in the theory. Sure, one could carry on insisting that the theory is correct until one's blue in the face - but one would, sadly, be wrong.

For M to be Hargreaves, you need a backstory. Any theory that has to rely on a backstory not included in the films is fan fiction. Surely you can see that?

Darren, when you're ready to admit that Robert Brown played two different characters in the Bond films, you know where I am.

[DLibrasnow]

Darren, when you're ready to admit that Robert Brown played two different characters in the Bond films, you know where I am.

You are going to have a VERY long wait, because that is never going to happen.

[spynovelfan]

Okay (all that effort for nothing!).

What makes you so convinced it's the case?

And what's your answer to 'any theory that has to rely on a backstory not included in the films is fan fiction'?

[Bon-san]

At the risk of getting too Larry Groznic or pompous about it...

What a hilarious article! Thanks much for the link.


One question re the Hargreaves/Messervy debate, if "mistakes were made" in the production of that cd-rom thingy that apparently names Brown's M as Hargreaves, then by the same token, couldn't "mistakes have been made" by the wardrobe department on TLD? Maybe Emma Porteus' teaboy took an extra 'lude the day he sewed Brown's costume and he therefore couldn't maintain a focussed field of vision when consulting the naval rank diagram he was to use in construction of said costume.

I want Emma Porteus on this. That'll be my authority.

Unless she says Brown's M was Messervy. Then I'll want to hear from Geoffrey Moore, Maurice Binder, David Whicker, John Le Carre, and all of Bernard Lee's living relatives.

And Rosamund Pike, while I'm at it. Because she seems a right genius whose field of knowledge would range very far and very wide, even including, however improbably, costume decisions on a film produced when she was 5 years old, and all character assignations derived from the Flemingian universe. And I'd just generally appreciate the opportunity to converse with her.

[Harmsway]

I laugh at the triviality of this debate, and then state my opinion (since this is those "believe whatever you want to believe" things). Brown's M was Admiral Hargreaves - he didn't remind me of Fleming's Sir Miles enough for me to consider him the same person. Bernard Lee, however, seemed as if he'd been lifted from the pages of Fleming's novels.

[Flash1087]

I certainly don't wish to sound like a jerk, or add fuel to the fire, but I like thinking of the second M as Hargreaves just because. No logic behind it, and they'll never confirm it one way or another, I just prefer keeping him seperate from Sir Miles.

Edited by Flash1087, 09 February 2006 - 04:11 AM.

[Double-Oh Agent]

I laugh at the triviality of this debate, and then state my opinion (since this is those "believe whatever you want to believe" things). Brown's M was Admiral Hargreaves - he didn't remind me of Fleming's Sir Miles enough for me to consider him the same person. Bernard Lee, however, seemed as if he'd been lifted from the pages of Fleming's novels.

By that logic then Roger Moore is not really James Bond because he doesn't remind one of Fleming's 007. Timothy Dalton, on the other hand, is Bond because he seems as if he was the 007 of Fleming's novels.

Robert Brown's "M" IS Miles Messervy. He also played Adm. Hargreaves. They are two different characters. Just as there are six different James Bond actors, two different Geoffrey "Q" Boothroyd actors, three Jane Moneypenny actresses, six Felix Leiter actors, and three Bill Tanner actors, there are two Miles "M" Messervy actors. The characters themselves are not different, it's just the actors and their interpretations that are different.

If one were to use the logic that Brown's "M" is Hargreaves then they would likewise have to believe that Nadja Regin's Bonita in Goldfinger is also Kerim Bey's girlfriend in From Russia With Love; Martine Beswick's Zora in FRWL moved to the Bahamas, became an MI6 agent, and changed her name to Paula Caplan in Thunderball; Ed Bishop went from a NASA technician in You Only Live Twice to Klaus Hergersheimer, radiation shield checker, at Willard Whyte's facility in Diamonds Are Forever; and most improbable, that Shane Rimmer went from a NASA technician based in Hawaii in YOLT to a guy named Tom working for Whyte in DAF before enlisting as a man named Carter in the U.S. Navy and becoming a captain of a submarine in The Spy Who Loved Me. (That, of course, doesn't even take into account those times an actor's character was killed only to see themselves return to the series years later in another role--i.e. Charles Gray, Maud Adams, and Joe Don Baker.)

Now really, which theory is more believable? The answer is obvious. Brown's "M" IS Miles Messervy. Besides, Raymond Benson also put a capper on the issue as he has Adm. Hargreaves attend a dinner party put on by Miles Messervy in The Facts Of Death. Ladies and gentlemen, I rest my case.

Edited by Double-Oh Agent, 09 February 2006 - 07:15 AM.

[Streetworker]

I don't expect to convince any of the unbelievers.....just like they should not expect to convince me.

It's not going to happen. That's like telling me that Never Say Never Again is a terrible film....nothing is going to shake me in my conviction that its a great film.

That's like trying to convince doublenoughtspy that On Her Majesty’s Secret Service is a terrible film - good luck!

(just to erase any confusion, On Her Majesty’s Secret Service is my third favorite 007 movie so I was not knocking it).

Hmm, but your Never Say Never Again point is opinion; this Hargreaves stuff you are seeking to assert as fact; a different nature to the argument, surely?


dirtydirtydirtydirtydirty

Jim, I disagree I think that this Hargreaves stuff is opinion also, and I am trying to illustrate the futility of trying to change someones opinion.
As I said - I don't expect to change anyone elses opinion. I'm just saying, don't expect to change mine - because it's not going to happen.

Fair enough.

(I really don't care; but whether that statement is credible given my involvement in this thread...)

In the second edition of her James Bond Movie Book (or whatever it was called), an Eon-licensed thingy, Sally Hibbin continually refers to a character in Licence to Kill as "Dano" rather than "Dario".

Accordingly, this proves to me that the character's name is Dano and if Licence to Kill ever comes into my conversation (this doesn't happen often, fortunately), I shall refer to this character as such, because it pleases me so. No-one will be able to dissuade me from this view because the Eon-licensed book says that's what he's called and I'm going with that.

Where do you stand on the Chang/Char debate in Moonraker, then? Is there a definitive answer or shall we start another pointless new thread and discuss that...?

Danjaq didn't produce the CD-Rom Dossier, MGM Interactive did.

And from MKKBB:

As is probably inevitable in a project of this scope, there are the occasional slip-ups in data. For example, the photo that accompanies the one-page bio devoted to Robert Brown (the second "M") is actually a picture of Geoffrey Keen (Defense Minister Frederick Gray)....

The Defense Minister is Admiral Hargreaves!

Well, surely the evidence is right there on those CD-ROMs that apparently are more accurate then the films.

With respect, I think you need to get out more.

I would have, but it was raining at the time.

(And would going outdoors for the 10 seconds it took me to pause the TiVo to check what I thought I saw really have enriched my life that much more.)

I guess it depends where those ten seconds were spent... and with whom...

[DLibrasnow]

Robert Brown's "M" IS Miles Messervy.

Nope. You are wrong. Next!

If you believe that, how do you explain the comments by both John Glen and Michael G. Wilson.

[Mister Asterix]

Robert Brown's "M" IS Miles Messervy.

Nope. You are wrong. Next!

If you believe that, how do you explain the comments by both John Glen and Michael G. Wilson.

Um... What comments? Can we get quotes?

[Harmsway]

I laugh at the triviality of this debate, and then state my opinion (since this is those "believe whatever you want to believe" things). Brown's M was Admiral Hargreaves - he didn't remind me of Fleming's Sir Miles enough for me to consider him the same person. Bernard Lee, however, seemed as if he'd been lifted from the pages of Fleming's novels.

By that logic then Roger Moore is not really James Bond because he doesn't remind one of Fleming's 007. Timothy Dalton, on the other hand, is Bond because he seems as if he was the 007 of Fleming's novels.

Robert Brown's "M" IS Miles Messervy. He also played Adm. Hargreaves. They are two different characters. Just as there are six different James Bond actors, two different Geoffrey "Q" Boothroyd actors, three Jane Moneypenny actresses, six Felix Leiter actors, and three Bill Tanner actors, there are two Miles "M" Messervy actors. The characters themselves are not different, it's just the actors and their interpretations that are different.

If one were to use the logic that Brown's "M" is Hargreaves then they would likewise have to believe that Nadja Regin's Bonita in Goldfinger is also Kerim Bey's girlfriend in From Russia With Love; Martine Beswick's Zora in FRWL moved to the Bahamas, became an MI6 agent, and changed her name to Paula Caplan in Thunderball; Ed Bishop went from a NASA technician in You Only Live Twice to Klaus Hergersheimer, radiation shield checker, at Willard Whyte's facility in Diamonds Are Forever; and most improbable, that Shane Rimmer went from a NASA technician based in Hawaii in YOLT to a guy named Tom working for Whyte in DAF before enlisting as a man named Carter in the U.S. Navy and becoming a captain of a submarine in The Spy Who Loved Me. (That, of course, doesn't even take into account those times an actor's character was killed only to see themselves return to the series years later in another role--i.e. Charles Gray, Maud Adams, and Joe Don Baker.)

Now really, which theory is more believable? The answer is obvious. Brown's "M" IS Miles Messervy. Besides, Raymond Benson also put a capper on the issue as he has Adm. Hargreaves attend a dinner party put on by Miles Messervy in The Facts Of Death. Ladies and gentlemen, I rest my case.

There is no absolute proof there. You're just stating cases where different actors played different roles. Okay, fine. I wasn't arguing one way or another, honestly, but rather just stating what I was choosing to believe - I'm still viewing Brown as Hargreaves. And seeing as there's evidence that's disputable on both sides of this debate, I'm leaving it at that.

[Jim]

Robert Brown's "M" IS Miles Messervy.

Nope. You are wrong. Next!

Hang on, I thought you said that you were viewing this debate as one of opinion rather than fact. "You are wrong" doesn't really sit with that, does it?

[Mister Asterix]

I'm still viewing Brown as Hargreaves. And seeing as there's evidence that's disputable on both sides of this debate, I'm leaving it at that.

[mra]But no one has provided any evidence that Brown

[DLibrasnow]

[quote name='Mister Asterix' post='515459' date='9 February 2006 - 11:28']
The only evidence presented is mine from the first post in this thread. And it shows evidence that Brown

[Donovan]

Okay, I have it on solid authority that Bernard Lee and Robert Brown did in fact play two seperate characters who each served in Her Majesty's Secret Service as the head of M.I.6. This is their story:

"BUTTERFLIES AREN'T FREE"

After Bond's recent mission took him up into outer space on a space shuttle, and the sheer silliness of the events and onslaught of sophomoric humor that permeated that mission, Admiral Sir Miles Messervy, KCMG, RNVR, decided he needed a break. He informed his immediate superior, Frederick Gray, Minister of Defense, of his decision to go on leave to the Amazon prairie where he would go on a butterfly-catching safari to acquire rare specimens for his collection. Not to worry, though, his second-in-command, Bill Tanner, was a capable fellow who could run the department like a fine watch. And Sir Miles assured everyone he'd be back before they could say 'ornithologist'.

Meanwhile, in Her Majesty's Royal Navy, Admiral Hargreaves, another old school sailor, was about to set sail on a rather il-advised personal embarkation. The details of which are too lewd and disturbing for this forum. Suffice to say he did not get away with it and was placed on leave, pending charges. The Royal Navy was faced with a grave situation. The Vice Sea Lord recommended harsh and sweeping disciplinary measures be brought against Hargreaves. If every one of Her Majesty's sailors went to the Red Light District in Amsterdam and did what Hargreaves, did...the Vice Sea Lord shuddered in contemplation. But there was another matter at hand that required immediate attention. Something about floating debris sighted off the coast of Albania. The Vice Sea Lord thanked God for the distraction.

Back at 'Universal Exports' things were getting tense. It seemed Bill Tanner was on some kind of a power trip. He started dressing like M, talking like M, he even had the audacity to pilfer the Old Man's pipe tobacco! Miss Moneypenny couldn't wait for the Admiral to return so she could tell on Bill, who insisted everyone address him as Wild Bill. But then something serious was going on at the Minstry of Defense. Tanner could hardly contain himself at the thought of his first secret mission! When Frederick Gray himself appeared to brief the Chief of Staff, Tanner could hardly contain his euphoria. Our own submarines could be ordered to attack our own cities? How exciting! When should he go? No, no, no, was the minister's response. We're going to send that guy who flew around in space. What was his name? Bomb? Bono? Bong? Whatever, just get him here!

Tanner was deflated, but he'd show Bong who was boss. And just to make sure he wouldn't crack under pressure, he'd mix a little special something into his pipe which always made him feel relaxed and happy, but unfortunately made him crave chips and Twinkies. Gray didn't like the look in Tanner's eyes...there was a mixture of craftiness and glassy indifference in them. On the way out he demanded Miss Moneypenny try to get in touch with Sir Miles and recall him back to HQ. Moneypenny explained she's been trying every day, every hour, to do just that. But to no avail. The minister couldn't deal with and changes right now. He left instructions to let him know the second Sir Miles was reached.

The mission, Operation Undertow, seemed doomed from the start. It didn't help matters that Tanner took it upon himself to notify every member of the press, even the sports columnists, and provide every secret detail of the situation. He was showing up to work carrying a megaphone from which he'd shout to the streets of London that while they were all out living their pathetic lives, he was going to go up to his office at Universal Exports, which was really a front for the British Secret Service, and see if he can prevent the imminent destruction of the British Empire.

If that weren't enough, reports were coming to Gray that Admiral Hargreaves was waiting in a cell pending sentencing. It took the court of inquiry exactly 5 seconds to render a verdict. But that business would have to wait. For now, he heard the voice of Tanner on the megaphone getting louder as he and Bonz were arriving for their meeting. Gray decided to not interfere with Tanner's administrative handling of the mission. He would live to regret this. It seemed at every turn, when there was a glimmer of hope, Tanner would be there to totally undermine any potential dividends. He sent a telegram to Melina Havelock, daughter of the slain archeologist that was good enough to help the service, saying "I found the man who killed your parents. Meet me in Cortina." and signed it J. Bond. Worse, he had it posted all over town. While trying to track 007 down in Cortina, he telephoned an ice rink and gave Bond's description and license number to the nice people who answered with phone. Unfortunately, Tanner wasn't sure if that was a Russian accent or Italian one. But since the call was placed to Italy, he was pretty sure they were Italian. Bond, for his part, seemed to stay alive despite the curious lapses in security. But soon enough, he was able to save the day by smashing the lost transmitter and in doing so convinced the head of the K.G.B. that due to its destruction, that meant the British couldn't possibly have any more transmitters just like it or the technology to build another one.

In spite of the positive turn of events, great decision weighed on the mind of Frederick Gray. On one hand, he had a lunatic poised with assuming control of the British Secret Service. That phone call idea of his to the prime minister was a disaster. On the other, he had an emotionally-unstable line officer getting his bags packed for a retirement home in a criminal psycho ward. Wait a minute! Maybe there's a golden opportunity here. Hargreaves looked like Messervy, and that was really the important thing. Sure, he lacked the spine of Sir Miles, and perhaps he'd run the service under ths shadow of his legendary predecessor. But he had the same taste in art and office decor. Even shared the same eye prescription. Heck, Gray could give him a slap on the wrist for his indiscretions and give him a modest reduction in rank. That way, all the cool field-wear that was designed and fitted for Sir Miles could be used by Hargreaves. (As it would turn out, Hargreaves' first field assignment was to Germany. He absolutely insisted on flying there to personally brief Bond. That meeting took about ten minutes, but Hargreaves...M...took the scenic route back home.)

The minister was pleased with himself. The mission was successfully completed by James Bonr, he had a new M, and he just signed a three-picture extension with some film production company. Bill Tanner was another story. After his reckless endangerment of the United Kingdom, he was back in the number two spot in M.I.6 where Q Branch was instructed to saw two feet from his legs and he'd undergo electro-shock therapy to replace his stuffy and arrogant attitude with a softer and more affable personality.

And what of Admiral Sir Miles Messervy? The news is not promising. On last report he was seen frolicking in the countryside of the Amazon frontier, chasing a rare species of Butterfly. Upon catching it, he found himself surrounded by a tribe of locals who happen to worship that particular insect. No one has seen or heard from him since.

[Mister Asterix]

I have more definite proof....I knew I had read this somewhere but I wasn't going to post it until I had tracked down the source....In the Oct. 1981 edition of "Film and Music" Micheal Wilson said they had no plans to recast Sir Miles after Lee's death, but would probably introduce a new character as the Head of MI6, or bring in a previously introduced character.

I assume this is the Wilson ‘quote’ you speak of. (Actually, it’s a paraphrase.) And yes I’ve heard that a hundred times before when referring to For Your Eyes Only (1981). And therefore I do not believe that James Villiers played the same character as Bernard Lee. (There is also ‘evidence’ in the film of such, but that apparently doesn’t matter.)

That's total and complete BS and you know it.....With all die respect Evan your so-called "evidence" is nothing of the sort.

...

Now quit passing your observation of as "evidence" when it clearly is not.

Or should I just relent to the CBn thought police?

How can you say it is not evidence? Clearly it is. Clearly it is relevant to the question. Now you may argue that the evidence is equivocal, and I would understand that, but clearly it is evidence.

and the DVD for Octopussy

Sorry, I do not own Octopussy on DVD, would you care to enlighten me what is on it that supports the ‘Hargreaves is M’ arguement.

[Jim]

[quote name='DLibrasnow' post='515481' date='9 February 2006 - 17:31']
[quote name='Mister Asterix' post='515459' date='9 February 2006 - 11:28']
The only evidence presented is mine from the first post in this thread. And it shows evidence that Brown

[Streetworker]

[quote name='Jim' post='515503' date='9 February 2006 - 19:12']
[quote name='DLibrasnow' post='515481' date='9 February 2006 - 17:31']
[quote name='Mister Asterix' post='515459' date='9 February 2006 - 11:28']
The only evidence presented is mine from the first post in this thread. And it shows evidence that Brown

Edited by Streetworker, 09 February 2006 - 08:15 PM.

[doublenoughtspy]

Streetworker,

You have some valid points - and I agree that the production team was probably not concerned or aware.

But the "get a life", "we joke about punters who talk about stuff like this", etc. etc. - could easily apply to 95% of the content on this forum.

Of course it's a colossal waste of time to argue about minutia like this, but we're fans - it's what we do.

At least with this topic there is a bit of a mystery - Darren has presented 2 sources which bolster the thought that maybe it is supposed to be a different guy - and Mr * has produced evidence that it is the same guy.

It may have all the halmarks of geekdom, but I think it's a little more thought provoking than the 800th "Who is your favorite Bond?" thread.

[Streetworker]

Streetworker,

You have some valid points - and I agree that the production team was probably not concerned or aware.

But the "get a life", "we joke about punters who talk about stuff like this", etc. etc. - could easily apply to 95% of the content on this forum.

Oh, I agree absolutely. What I was suggesting is that it's important to keep such discussions in perspective. I hate to stamp on silliness, because there's not enough of it in modern life. But it's when they get out of perspective - as I submit this one has - that the dreaded hint of middle-aged trainspotters who live with their mums begins to kick in to the outside world.

[Bondian]

If I may chip in here to say, this is a 'debate', a 'discussion'. In other words, we have two excellent posters who share a difference of opinion and like to share their views in public.

It doesn't matter who's right or wrong. Or who makes the best argument, or who comes out correct in the end.

Open discussion is healthy, and we need more of it. Besides, whats the point of having an awesome site such as CBn with the deep coloured 'wallpaper' etc if it's only about 'what's happening today with Casino Royale.

As for the argument. I basically do not give two hoots if Brown was portraying 'M' or 'Hargreaves'. He wasn't Bernard Lee, so I don't care what they would of named him. And as there's a mystery to his actual name, I accept him more as a replacement to Lee.

[Bon-san]

Who is your favorite Bond?

I like the guy in that one with the big gnarly guy with the steel teeth. I think it was Sean Connery. Or his brother, George.

Anyway, great question, cool thread, love the site!

[Streetworker]

If I may chip in here to say, this is a 'debate', a 'discussion'. In other words, we have two excellent posters who share a difference of opinion and like to share their views in public.

It doesn't matter who's right or wrong. Or who makes the best argument, or who comes out correct in the end.

Of course. But surely your own strapline sums up perfectly how such discussions should be conducted - "objective and light-hearted". Not, I suggest, intense and anal.

And I'm only telling you like it is. For the same reason, I would advise people never to write letters of complaint to film or TV companies. If you knew how the letters and their writers are derided (and emailed round sniggeringly to others in the industry), you'd be horrifed. That said, I must admit that I've been just as guilty of this as other colleagues.

Edited by Streetworker, 09 February 2006 - 09:30 PM.

[Bondian]

And I'm only telling you like it is. For the same reason, I would advise people never to write letters of complaint to film or TV companies. If you knew how the letters and their writers are derided (and emailed round sniggeringly to others in the industry), you'd be horrifed. That said, I must admit that I've been just as guilty of this as other colleagues.

Oh, I agree. I also used to be in the entertainment industry, and I know what you're referring to.

I had a chat with one of the accountants of Goldeneye (cannot remember his name) actually at EON's Piccadilly home. He said that that fan groups were laughable, and had no regard for them.

The problem is though. These people have a mundane job, and have no interest in the subject they're dealing with. So of course they'd rebel against fans of a subject they have no interest in.