181 replies to this topic

[Skudor]

For myself, I get struck by how viciously and forcefully some people oppose McMahon (whether it be with specific comments or just general 'God help me' type comments) - put that down to me being over sensitive, if you like!

I am, however, glad to be reminded (inadvertently) that my approach to commenting on other 'candidates' used to be much 'softer' than it was becoming. The thing I like about this forum is the way people can state their own idiosyncratic preferences for their own peculiar candidates and not get shot down with vicious comments. I was getting into a mode of thinking that was idiotically confrontational and a mentality that was getting too 'he's not my candidate so let's shoot him down'. This is what I was trying to convey.

[spynovelfan]

I guess I feel that people who are being paid truckloads of cash to pretend to be other people on film can probably deal with being slagged off on a website they've never heard of.

[Jim]

I guess I feel that people who are being paid truckloads of cash to pretend to be other people on film can probably deal with being slagged off on a website they've never heard of.

No statement truer

[DLibrasnow]

I'm still waiting to hear spynovelfan's source!

In the meantime PM me and tell me how Ms. Mars is doing.

Have any ideas on the new series?

Rob Thomas is keeping details of the new series carefully hidden, but apparently they have a really good mystery in store for us. Its going to be a long wait until September, but at least UPN is rerunning the last season over the summer months.

[Bon-san]

Butler I see as being a solid, if uninspired choice

What's the reasoning here? I've pondered the quoted statement for awhile and am legitimately confused as to the assertion re the lack of inspiration. I'd be interested to hear why you feel he is solid, and why you feel casting him would be uninspired.

The cynical side of me imagines that saying "Butler I see as being a solid, if uninspired choice", is the handiest way to dismiss a candidate about which one has no legitimate gripes, save that one favors a different candidate (or candidate[s]). My naive side is willing to listen to your reply.

[I was going to insert a smiley at the end there as a precaution against rising temperatures, but I'm getting damn tired of them. Just accept the drollness, sis vous plait.]

[spynovelfan]

Bon-San, I'll do my best to answer your question.

I've only seen GB in one film, 1999's ONE MORE KISS, so I'll readily admit I don't have as good an idea about him as I do, say, Owen, at least half of whose films I have seen. He was quite good in ONE MORE KISS, I thought, though not in the least bit Bond-ish. It wasn't a Bond-ish kind of part. However, I've seen him interviewed, and he has a strong Scottish accent. He looks reasonably like Bond in that he's a dark-haired handsome British actor between the ages of 25 and 45, but there doesn't seem to be anything else that really stands out about him. Almost every other dark-haired handsome British actor between the ages of 25 and 45 has been mentioned for the part, and only a few of them seem to have a spark of Bond's character in their own personality. Butler has a sense of humour - loved his comment about Ann Widdecombe - and I'm sure he'd be fine in the part. That's what I meant by solid. Uninspired because I can't really see what he would bring that would be so special. He doesn't look like Bond to me: he doesn't have the suaveness, the near-arrogance, the sang-froid. An actor who does have all that, by way of illsutration, is Rupert Everett. He's not going to be cast, of course, because he's too old, he's indiscreet, he's a bit of a prat, he had a row with Brosnan and, of course, he's gay. And I wouldn't want Everett to get the part, either. But when you see him on film or in an interview, he undeniably has some of the characteristics of James Bond, if you see what I mean. Forget that he's looking a little haggard here, and suspend disbelief for a moment:

http://img.atpicture.../everett003.jpg

There's a world-weariness, a snootiness, a Britishness, a debonairness and a coolness to that guy that says Bond. Same with Messrs Brosnan and Moore. They look like they *are* James Bond. In a very different way, Clive Owen looks to me like he *is* James Bond:

http://eur.yimg.com/.../d2efe38071.jpg

Ioan Gruffudd sometimes looks like he *is* James Bond. as in this picture from a FANTASTIC FOUR event in Sydney a couple of days ago:

http://www.ioanonlin.../album138/j.jpg

The closest I've seen of Butler is this:

http://www.celebrity...m11/gerard2.jpg

As I say, he's good-looking, dark, etc. But he just doesn't look like James Bond to me. I don't really kow what you mean hy having 'legitimate gripes'. What would be legitimate, exactly? This is all purely subjective, surely. I happen to feel that Owen and others look like James Bond, and that Butler doesn't, really. As I say, he looks enough of the part to be able to do the job, but to me he doesn't stand up and shout 'I am James Bond' in the way a few others do. His looks are quite bland, I find. So I think he'd be solid - ie he'd do a decent job, the films wouldn't suddenly flop, etc - but uninspired - he's simply one of many middle-ranking British actors with dark hair who could do the same.

Hope that helps.

[Bon-san]

Hope that helps.

Yes, gave me a view into your sentiments. Thanks for taking the time to reply.

And the bit about "legitimate gripes" was a little needle meant purely to get your dander up enough to post. Sue me!

Of course I disagree with you about Butler having that special something. I see a spark there, and an essential machismo that is balanced by his ability to play humour. I also think he could get the refined bit down pat (see Connery circa 1962 for a much rougher chap who did well).

At the end of the day, many of us have different ideas about what makes one a superior Bond candidate. I go back and forth myself with many of them. But there are a few--Butler, Gruffudd, Jackman, Owen, Bale--on whom I never waver. They could all nail it. With them it just comes down to preferences.

[Skudor]

Bon-San, I'll do my best to answer your question.

I've only seen GB in one film, 1999's ONE MORE KISS, so I'll readily admit I don't have as good an idea about him as I do, say, Owen, at least half of whose films I have seen. He was quite good in ONE MORE KISS, I thought, though not in the least bit Bond-ish. It wasn't a Bond-ish kind of part. However, I've seen him interviewed, and he has a strong Scottish accent. He looks reasonably like Bond in that he's a dark-haired handsome British actor between the ages of 25 and 45, but there doesn't seem to be anything else that really stands out about him. Almost every other dark-haired handsome British actor between the ages of 25 and 45 has been mentioned for the part, and only a few of them seem to have a spark of Bond's character in their own personality. Butler has a sense of humour - loved his  comment about Ann Widdecombe - and I'm sure he'd be fine in the part. That's what I meant by solid. Uninspired because I can't really see what he would bring that would be so special. He doesn't look like Bond to me: he doesn't have the suaveness, the near-arrogance, the sang-froid. An actor who does have all that, by way of illsutration, is Rupert Everett. He's not going to be cast, of course, because he's too old, he's indiscreet, he's a bit of a prat, he had a row with Brosnan and, of course, he's gay. And I wouldn't want Everett to get the part, either. But when you see him on film or in an interview, he undeniably has some of the characteristics of James Bond, if you see what I mean. Forget that he's looking a little haggard here, and suspend disbelief for a moment:

http://img.atpicture.../everett003.jpg

There's a world-weariness, a snootiness, a Britishness, a debonairness and a coolness to that guy that says Bond. Same with Messrs Brosnan and Moore. They look like they *are* James Bond. In a very different way, Clive Owen looks to me like he *is* James Bond:

http://eur.yimg.com/.../d2efe38071.jpg

Ioan Gruffudd sometimes looks like he *is* James Bond. as in this picture from a FANTASTIC FOUR event in Sydney a couple of days ago:

http://www.ioanonlin.../album138/j.jpg

The closest I've seen of Butler is this:

http://www.celebrity...m11/gerard2.jpg

As I say, he's good-looking, dark, etc. But he just doesn't look like James Bond to me. I don't really kow what you mean hy having 'legitimate gripes'. What would be legitimate, exactly? This is all purely subjective, surely. I happen to feel that Owen and others look like James Bond, and that Butler doesn't, really. As I say, he looks enough of the part to be able to do the job, but to me he doesn't stand up and shout 'I am James Bond' in the way a few others do. His looks are quite bland, I find. So I think he'd be solid - ie he'd do a decent job, the films wouldn't suddenly flop, etc - but uninspired - he's simply one of many middle-ranking British actors with dark hair who could do the same.

Hope that helps.

That's what I call a good post.

[spynovelfan]

At the end of the day, many of us have different ideas about what makes one a superior Bond candidate.  I go back and forth myself with many of them.  But there are a few--Butler, Gruffudd, Jackman, Owen, Bale--on whom I never waver.  They could all nail it.  With them it just comes down to preferences.

Actually, that post was pretty persuasive. Take the point about Connery. I'll have to see some more Butler films.

[Stephenson]

Bon-San, I'll do my best to answer your question.

I've only seen GB in one film, 1999's ONE MORE KISS, so I'll readily admit I don't have as good an idea about him as I do, say, Owen, at least half of whose films I have seen. He was quite good in ONE MORE KISS, I thought, though not in the least bit Bond-ish. It wasn't a Bond-ish kind of part. However, I've seen him interviewed, and he has a strong Scottish accent. He looks reasonably like Bond in that he's a dark-haired handsome British actor between the ages of 25 and 45, but there doesn't seem to be anything else that really stands out about him. Almost every other dark-haired handsome British actor between the ages of 25 and 45 has been mentioned for the part, and only a few of them seem to have a spark of Bond's character in their own personality. Butler has a sense of humour - loved his  comment about Ann Widdecombe - and I'm sure he'd be fine in the part. That's what I meant by solid. Uninspired because I can't really see what he would bring that would be so special. He doesn't look like Bond to me: he doesn't have the suaveness, the near-arrogance, the sang-froid. An actor who does have all that, by way of illsutration, is Rupert Everett. He's not going to be cast, of course, because he's too old, he's indiscreet, he's a bit of a prat, he had a row with Brosnan and, of course, he's gay. And I wouldn't want Everett to get the part, either. But when you see him on film or in an interview, he undeniably has some of the characteristics of James Bond, if you see what I mean. Forget that he's looking a little haggard here, and suspend disbelief for a moment:

http://img.atpicture.../everett003.jpg

There's a world-weariness, a snootiness, a Britishness, a debonairness and a coolness to that guy that says Bond. Same with Messrs Brosnan and Moore. They look like they *are* James Bond. In a very different way, Clive Owen looks to me like he *is* James Bond:

http://eur.yimg.com/.../d2efe38071.jpg

Ioan Gruffudd sometimes looks like he *is* James Bond. as in this picture from a FANTASTIC FOUR event in Sydney a couple of days ago:

http://www.ioanonlin.../album138/j.jpg

The closest I've seen of Butler is this:

http://www.celebrity...m11/gerard2.jpg

As I say, he's good-looking, dark, etc. But he just doesn't look like James Bond to me. I don't really kow what you mean hy having 'legitimate gripes'. What would be legitimate, exactly? This is all purely subjective, surely. I happen to feel that Owen and others look like James Bond, and that Butler doesn't, really. As I say, he looks enough of the part to be able to do the job, but to me he doesn't stand up and shout 'I am James Bond' in the way a few others do. His looks are quite bland, I find. So I think he'd be solid - ie he'd do a decent job, the films wouldn't suddenly flop, etc - but uninspired - he's simply one of many middle-ranking British actors with dark hair who could do the same.

Hope that helps.

You've managed to sum up exactly how I feel about Clive Owen.

[Seannery]

Firstly, fellow Bondophiles: all you need is love!

Secondly, here's what I understand:

1) Brosnan will probably return in Casino Royale. The buzz around Pinewood is such. However, major negotiations are still taking place to finesse the deal - probably the largest in movie history and certainly in Bond history.  But nothing is for certain until people sign on the line which is dotted.

2) Owen has NEVER wanted to play James Bond, even if he had needed it for his career, which he now does not. He discussed this with Martin Campbell on the set of Beyond Borders a few years back. But faced with a constant barage of the same questions by reporters, he answers in the way he feels appropriate. I don't think he looks here to see the man hours spent on his every utterance.

3) The next Bond after that (say 2008?) will have to be the right age to sign to series. A possible and, in my mind, probable candidate is Jack Davenport. The only thing holding Davenport back is the fact he has virtually no profile on in the US. However, by that time,he will have completed 2 more Pirates of the Caribbean movies, aged well, beefed up and appeared in a few women's magazines globally. Does Jack Davenport have a chance? Well, John Cleese put him in the frame ages ago, and despite what the press say, a lot of the real contenders have probably not been cited yet. After all, who knew about Dalton?

4) Whoever it is, Eon have never put a foot wrong in the casting of a Bond, certainly not recently. I do have faith in their sensibilities. They do have a deeper understanding of the character.

ACE

Well ACE this Pierce news is interesting. Hard to verify though. It's hard to believe though that the deal between Pierce and Eon will probably be the biggest one in film history. I can't see that at all.

[Bondesque]

There is no way that Pierce has a deal that is the biggest in hollywood history or even close. He isn't even close to that status and EON isn't going that direction. Even if they wanted to I don't see that Brozzy will be back. the series needs new blood and new vitality. As much as I like and respect Brosnan, he isn't Connery and this isn't DAF. Even that situation can be viewed as a mistake.

Bring on Owen Jackman or Butler and infuse new life into Bond.

[Mr. Somerset]

Bon-San, I'll do my best to answer your question.

I've only seen GB in one film, 1999's ONE MORE KISS, so I'll readily admit I don't have as good an idea about him as I do, say, Owen, at least half of whose films I have seen. He was quite good in ONE MORE KISS, I thought, though not in the least bit Bond-ish. It wasn't a Bond-ish kind of part. However, I've seen him interviewed, and he has a strong Scottish accent. He looks reasonably like Bond in that he's a dark-haired handsome British actor between the ages of 25 and 45, but there doesn't seem to be anything else that really stands out about him. Almost every other dark-haired handsome British actor between the ages of 25 and 45 has been mentioned for the part, and only a few of them seem to have a spark of Bond's character in their own personality. Butler has a sense of humour - loved his  comment about Ann Widdecombe - and I'm sure he'd be fine in the part. That's what I meant by solid. Uninspired because I can't really see what he would bring that would be so special. He doesn't look like Bond to me: he doesn't have the suaveness, the near-arrogance, the sang-froid. An actor who does have all that, by way of illsutration, is Rupert Everett. He's not going to be cast, of course, because he's too old, he's indiscreet, he's a bit of a prat, he had a row with Brosnan and, of course, he's gay. And I wouldn't want Everett to get the part, either. But when you see him on film or in an interview, he undeniably has some of the characteristics of James Bond, if you see what I mean. Forget that he's looking a little haggard here, and suspend disbelief for a moment:

http://img.atpicture.../everett003.jpg

There's a world-weariness, a snootiness, a Britishness, a debonairness and a coolness to that guy that says Bond. Same with Messrs Brosnan and Moore. They look like they *are* James Bond. In a very different way, Clive Owen looks to me like he *is* James Bond:

http://eur.yimg.com/.../d2efe38071.jpg

Ioan Gruffudd sometimes looks like he *is* James Bond. as in this picture from a FANTASTIC FOUR event in Sydney a couple of days ago:

http://www.ioanonlin.../album138/j.jpg

The closest I've seen of Butler is this:

http://www.celebrity...m11/gerard2.jpg

As I say, he's good-looking, dark, etc. But he just doesn't look like James Bond to me. I don't really kow what you mean hy having 'legitimate gripes'. What would be legitimate, exactly? This is all purely subjective, surely. I happen to feel that Owen and others look like James Bond, and that Butler doesn't, really. As I say, he looks enough of the part to be able to do the job, but to me he doesn't stand up and shout 'I am James Bond' in the way a few others do. His looks are quite bland, I find. So I think he'd be solid - ie he'd do a decent job, the films wouldn't suddenly flop, etc - but uninspired - he's simply one of many middle-ranking British actors with dark hair who could do the same.

Hope that helps.

I agree 100%. This reminds me of 1994, when PB was the obvious choice compared to Liam Neeson, Hugh Grant, and Mel Gibson. Owen is about the only one who is that close to the character. Butler, I cannot see, but wouldn't cry if he were cast, as well as Gruffudd , who I prefer over Butler.

[Seannery]

Hmmmmm........well there are a significant number of people who DON'T think Owen THE Bond choice.

[Stephenson]

Well, I don't know how he does it, but Owen has just managed to sneak himself into another thread that has nothing to do with him. Maybe with his ability to infiltrate palces where he doesn't belong, he would make a good secret agent.

Still doesn't make him Bond ....

[DLibrasnow]

Really....I couldn't give a toss who plays 007.

[Stephenson]

Really....I couldn't give a toss who plays 007.

[Bon-san]

Really....I couldn't give a toss who plays 007.

I give you credit for sticking with that line. But I don't believe it!

[DLibrasnow]

Why not?

I think I have provided adequate proof that it doesn't matter who plays 007....all the actors who have played 007 have given movies that I love and all of them (with the exception of one-time 007 George Lazenby of course) have given me 007 movies I like less.

[Stephenson]

Why not?

I think I have provided adequate proof that it doesn't matter who plays 007....all the actors who have played 007 have given movies that I love and all of them (with the exception of one-time 007 George Lazenby of course) have given me 007 movies I like less.

Although I don't agree with you, I respect your position.

I just couldn't find the smiley face labeled "sarcasticly shocked" ....

[Mr. Somerset]

Why not?

I think I have provided adequate proof that it doesn't matter who plays 007....all the actors who have played 007 have given movies that I love and all of them (with the exception of one-time 007 George Lazenby of course) have given me 007 movies I like less.

Good point, DLibrasnow. I pretty much love all the Bonds equally, and love all the films. Mike and Barbara have been in the Bond biz long enough to know what works and what doesn't. I suppose there is that small chance they could completely screw up the series by casting the wrong guy.......nah. But it certainly is fun to see what everyone thinks and who they want to be OO7, even if I don't necessarily agree with it.

[DLibrasnow]

So here

[Bon-san]

[quote name='DLibrasnow' date='10 June 2005 - 14:06']So here

[Bondesque]

Bon-san and Spynovelfan:

I have to respond concerning Gerard Butler and Bond. I have followed him since I heard the infamous rumor that he was the next Bond about five years ago. I looked him up in a dreadful vampire movie and immediately dismissed him as a very poor Bond choice. In the ensuing years as I have see his work (just as I have followed Jackman and Owen) I became convinced that he would make an excellent Bond.

Bon-san is absolutely correct that he would bring back a Conneryesque feel to the role circa 1962-66 (Dr. No, FRWL, GF and Thunderball)
I come to this conclusion based on three factors:

1. His growth as an actor with each role.

2. The apparant desire of EON to go back to the "old school " Bond.

3. Butlers personality.

If you look at Butler in Tomb Raider you will see snippets of a potentially compelling Bond (the sniper scene, and his part in the love scene with AJ where he delivers a classic BOnd-like line "you can break my arm but I 'm still going to kiss you".) This was a glimpse of true Bond potential.

In Phantom of the Opera he pulled off a very difficult performance. Acting behind a mask, he was able to show a very Conneryesque masculinity, charisma and sexuality in his seduction of the girl. He also showed a physicality in his action scenes and that cat-like grace that Sean had early on.

In the Game of thier lives (which I have had the chance to see) he also shows growth as an actor and a commanding screen presence. Butler has "weight" to him, very similar to Russell Crowe, although I admit that Crowe is a great actor and Butler is good at this point in his career. Clive Owen has a similar "weight" in many (but not all) of his performances.

As I saw many of Butlers interviews, I find him to have a very wicked sense of humor which is a total requirement for Bond. Connery and Moore had it in spades where Dalton and Lazenby suffered in this area.

Butler is a man's man. He enjoys his sexuality and is not politically correct. Again this speaks Bond! Butler is a person who would throw back a few, slap a pretty young thing on her behind, take her home and somehow not offend anyone. I say this because I personally have friends who have seen him in clubs in LA. Women love this guy!

If EON is serious about going back to the basics for Bond, Butler is an ideal choice. GB is the right age (mid 30s)an intellegent man (Law school grad I believe)who is working hard at developing himslef in his craft. He wants the role and would personally enjoy being Bond in the worlds eye. Not every current contender can say that and mean it. That is a very important factor.

Spynovel, these are specifics. I hope this is food for thought and commentary.

BTW If anyone asks the same thing regarding Jackman (my first choice) or Owen I am fully prepared.

[Stephenson]

Great summary Bondesque.

Butler would undoubtedly bring those characteristics to the role that everyone expects, but is talented enought to throw in enough of his own personality to put his stamp on the Bond. He wouldn't disappoint, and cares enough to treat the role with respect.


EDIT: well, aren't I the hypocrite, discussing Butler in a McMahon thread.
In a desperate effort to create a link I will say that IMO Butler would do a better job than McMahon, but our Nip/Tuck star would definitely surprise he's naysayers if he got the part. Also, I like his honesty, coming out and admitting that being associated with the role, no matter how based in reality the rumours may be, is a good thing for his career. Cheers for telling it like it is.

Edited by Stephenson, 10 June 2005 - 09:37 PM.

[Pal]

If I could just say one thing about Butler; for all of you who would like to check out his Bond qualities, check out the Phantom of the Opera. While he isn't James Bond in that movie, several qualities can be seen such as his charm, danger, intelligence. Also, what sold me was a very Bond-like strangulation of a stage hand. It was very, very similar to that of Lazenby choking out the henchman with the ski. Even though none of you know me, trust me, GB would be great!

[Blofeld's Cat]

If one wants to be really pedantic, anyone who corresponds with Eon about anything "has been in talks with Eon."

[ACE]

ACE, I fear what you say about Owen never having wanted Bond rings true. And I can see how Jack Davenport fits the profile in some ways, and know you favour him. I don't think it will be him, just because he seems a little typecast as the weak-spined upper-class twit at the moment, and traditionally they seem to go for someone who's typecast as a more Bond-ish character, cf Messrs Moore and Brosnan.

I agree to an extent. I don't think AT THE MOMENT JD has a snowball's chance in hell.

Cleese has pegged him because he worked with his mother in A FISH CALLED WANDA, and because he gave Davenport his first break as a favour to her, on the follow-up to that in the zoo, whatever it was called. I don't think it means any more than Brosnan tipping Colin Salmon. Could happen, though.

Point taken only that JD is on Eon's radar but not mentioned in the press. Also JD COULD play Bond in the currently accepted form of the character while CS maybe could not.

But my money is on Hugh Dancy. He absolutely fits the profile. Right age, British, TV exposure in the US (he played David Copperfield in a star-studded HBO film) and the UK (Daniel Derronda), some film work - he was Galahad in KING ARTHUR and is about to release a film with John Hurt and he in the main roles - massive international exposure as the face of Burberry and, the clincher, he looks like a younger version of Jackman.

Agree totally. Dancy is exactly the right profile and I think could be quite good too. But has the same profile problems as JD but time MAY sort that.

ACE

[Seannery]

McMahon will be on Letterman on Tuesday night. Will Bond be mentioned? It's a chance to see him out of character--will he seem Bondian? Nothing i've seen him in gives me any confidence of that.

[luciusgore]

McMahon will be on Letterman on Tuesday night.  Will Bond be mentioned?  It's a chance to see him out of character--will he seem Bondian?  Nothing i've seen him in gives me any confidence of that.

Maybe he will make the announcement on Leterman that evening: He is the new James Bond. Apparently he was in talks to star in 'The Hitcher' remake, but won't be in it now:

http://www.bloody-di...mplate=newsfull