255 replies to this topic

[JackLordIsFelix]

[quote name='Mr_Incognito' date='9 February 2005 - 07:28']
^ That's because nostalgia's poison. Objectively, and from a huge variety of viewpoints, it's obvious that the pre-Brosnan films have just as many poor points (simply by weight of numbers.) We don't remember those, because people look fondly on the good ol' days.

If one were to add up all of the poor points in all 20 Bond films, I don't think any one of us would ever want to watch a Bond film ever again;P. But to their credit, it took 20 films to add up to that many flaws. It took the Star Wars series (with Episodes One and Two) only two;P.

[Kingdom Come]

The first half of TND.
Terrence Young's direction.
John Glen for being allowed to let his films run too long.

[licensetostudy]

1.Lazenby not doing DAF(although Michael G. Wilson stated his personality did not go with becoming any big star and that George wasn't cut out for any of that Stardome).

2. Brosnan not doing a fifth film.

3. Moore's double obviously seen in AVTAK

4. Casino Royale being made a parody.

5. "He had a lot of guts."

6. Too little space in Moonraker.

7. No Q in LALD

8. Dragon on Deasel Engines

9. fake looking control room in Dr. No

10. That glass underneath the tarantula

11. the fight in Stacey Sutton's mansion

Edited by licensetostudy, 09 March 2005 - 10:20 PM.

[00Twelve]

The tarzan yell, heck, even the entire jungle hunt was the low point of the series for me.

Also:

Too many sight gags in OP and AVTAK

Jaws being played for laughs

Tracy's revenge over too fast

Blofeld in drag

The Bondola

THE SLIDE WHISTLE!!! (Ruined it. Just ruined it.)

Stacy Sutton

Too many "Bond's equal" girls

25-year old nuclear physicist (???)

Halle Bery's wisecracks

[YOLT]

Most of:

Goldeneye
Diamonds Are Forever
Licence to Kill

Last 20 minutes of:

Goldfinger
Thunderball
The Spy Who Loved Me
Moonraker
Octopussy
A View To A Kill
Die Another Day

[spynovelfan]

The use of invisibility.

[Qwerty]

Last 20 minutes of:
Octopussy

Why Octopussy?

[Stephenson]

AVTAK in its entirety

The fact that Bond's revenge for Tracey ended up being dumping Bloefeld down a smoke stack (can you imagine what Dalton or Connery would have done to him? It really should have been its own movie).

Roger Moore proving what a quality Bond he was in TSWLM and FYEO and then allowing himself slide to the point where they used a Tarzan yell: waste, waste, waste!

Connery pretending to be Japanese.

The fact Madonna was allowed to get within 100 yards of a Bond film: there should have been a restraining order!

Denise Richards: if handled properly she could have made an excellent Bond girl, but a nuclear physicist? Instead, she is Tanya Roberts for a new generation.

Invisible cars and CGI parasurfing cartoon characters.

Tha fact that, more and more, Bond scripts seem to be written around product placement.

[spynovelfan]

Tha fact that, more and more, Bond scripts seem to be written around product placement.

Yes. The nadir, for me, is the Brioni scene in CGI ANOTHER DAY. It's wrong in so many ways - apart from anything else, it doesn't even work as product placement, because it implies that a Hong Kong tailor can knock off Brioni's stuff in a matter of hours and have it looking precisely like the real thing (because they use the real thing to show it). Has any other brand ever allowed their own products to be used in a film masquerading as pirated copies of their own wares? I'm amazed Brioni allowed it.

Dalton's Lark stuff was pretty bad, too.

[doublenoughtspy]

Kingdome Come - you don't like Young's, Hunt's, or Glen's films - you must be one unhappy Bond fan.

[Stephenson]

Part of me doesn't mind product placement; Flemming used it to great effect to help define Bond, his preferences, even his attitudes (his committment to British cars, cigarettes, etc), so in one sense it can be seen as part of the character. It can definitely do the same in the movies, as well as provide some fun (I sometimes feel that watching a 007 flm is like watching an ultraviolent episode of "Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous"). But with Brosnan's films it became gratuitous, an obvious money grab that took any of the fun right out of it. DAD: The Brioni suits, the Philishave, British Airways, the Vodka, the triad of cars from the Ford family, Omega, .... You call it CGI Another Day; may I suggest another title? Buy Another Day.

Edited by canoe2, 11 March 2005 - 03:21 PM.

[Jamie007]

- Halle Berry as a Bond girl
- The Tarzan yell
- Bond dressed as a clown
- The slide whistle car jump

[Kingdom Come]

"Kingdome Come - you don't like Young's, Hunt's, or Glen's films - you must be one unhappy Bond fan." Doubleenoughtspy, although I don't like Young's directing, nor Hunt's nor most of Glen's, their films are still watchable and I have no alternative but to watch! I think Hamilton & Gilbert were 'right' directors for the series, they seemed to understand what Bond was 'really' about. Glen help inadvertently to ruin Roger's films and consequently old Roge takes more of a battering than he would have had given a different director. I do like Glen's work on Octopussy and Living Daylights and portions of For Your Eyes Only.

Young never went on to do anything of note after his three Bond films, neither did Hunt, nor for that matter, Glen. . . what does that tell us?

In answer to Blofeld below - are not ALL films made by committee? None of the Bond directors were that similar, not only that, but if you look at Glen's directing on his five - you could be mistaken for thinking that almost all his films were directed by a different director. They all had a different approach.

[Blofeld's Cat]

It tells us that, unlike most movies, Bond movies arn't made by the director, but by committee.

[Kingdom Come]

That is true to an extent. Bond films would surely be less committee lead than other films simply because the Bond films are tried and tested, so less of a need to 'go to committee'. My point being that Young was/is praised to the heavens - so how much of that is valid and how much is down to committee? Martin Campbell went on to success after his stint, as did Lewis Gilbert. The Bond films are by committee but then practically everything is by committee. None of the Bond directors were that similar, not only that, but if you look at Glen's directing on his five - you could be mistaken for thinking that almost all his films were directed by a different director. They all had a different approach and allowed to put it in use.

[spynovelfan]

Part of me doesn't mind product placement; Flemming used it to great effect to help define Bond, his preferences, even his attitudes (his committment to British cars, cigarettes, etc), so in one sense it can be seen as part of the character. It can definitely do the same in the movies, as well as provide some fun (I sometimes feel that watching a 007 flm is like watching an ultraviolent episode of "Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous"). But with Brosnan's films it became gratuitous, an obvious money grab that took any of the fun right out of it. DAD: The Brioni suits, the Philishave, British Airways, the Vodka, the triad of cars from the Ford family, Omega, .... You call it CGI Another Day; may I suggest another title? Buy Another Day.

Yes, BUY ANOTHER DAY'S more accurate. I don't mind some gratuitous product placement. Arguably, everything in Fleming is gratutitous product placement. What really sticks in the craw is when it's inappropriate. Fleming's character, as you so rightly point out, has very particular tastes. I don't think he'd ever smoke Lark cigarettes, wear Seiko and Omega watches, or shave with a Philips. They're not in there because they're part of the character. They're in there for one reason alone - cash. It's pitiful that they continue to be more brazen about this and that they're forgiven on the lines you say, that product placement was in Fleming.

[Stephenson]

You know, I was just thinking about the Tailor of Panama, the scene in which Rush freaks out when everyone starts talking about going down to Armani to buy their suits, and Rush says something about "Italian gent's off-the-rack" suits. That whole movie is just one big, glorious attack on the greed so obviously displayed in the Bond movies of late: the sleazy hotel, the rumpled suits, the money-grabbing Brosnan spy, the comment about the pørn-movie. Mink-gloves and Rolex: character defining; Brioni suits and Omega: whore-mongering.

[spynovelfan]

You know, I was just thinking about the Tailor of Panama, the scene in which Rush freaks out when everyone starts talking about going down to Armani to buy their suits, and Rush says something about "Italian gent's off-the-rack" suits. That whole movie is just one big, glorious attack on the greed so obviously displayed in the Bond movies of late: the sleazy hotel, the rumpled suits, the money-grabbing Brosnan spy, the comment about the pørn-movie. Mink-gloves and Rolex: character defining; Brioni suits and Omega: whore-mongering.

Great post. I love the scene in which Brosnan first enters the shop, sits down and tells Rush what he's looking for in a suit. I can't remember what he says exactly - something along the lines of 'Super 120 wool, but nothing over that and no synthetics, perhaps in a herringbone or Prince of Wales.' Or whatever. It's just incredibly authoritative and snobbish. He sounds, in other words, like James Bond. Compare to the Brioni scene in CRY ANOTHER DAY. I wonder how Brosnan slept after filming that!

Another excellent performance by Brosnan is in THE FOURTH PROTOCOL, in which he plays a Russian agent who is under cover in Britain. His cover name is 'James Stock', a debonair playboy.

Add these two roles together, and I wonder if Ann Fleming isn't turning in her grave.

[Blofeld's Cat]

Part of me doesn't mind product placement; Flemming used it to great effect to help define Bond, his preferences, even his attitudes (his committment to British cars, cigarettes, etc), so in one sense it can be seen as part of the character. It can definitely do the same in the movies, as well as provide some fun (I sometimes feel that watching a 007 flm is like watching an ultraviolent episode of "Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous"). But with Brosnan's films it became gratuitous, an obvious money grab that took any of the fun right out of it. DAD: The Brioni suits, the Philishave, British Airways, the Vodka, the triad of cars from the Ford family, Omega, .... You call it CGI Another Day; may I suggest another title? Buy Another Day.

Yes, BUY ANOTHER DAY'S more accurate. I don't mind some gratuitous product placement. Arguably, everything in Fleming is gratutitous product placement.

Yes, I remember an Aussie movie reviewer (James Valentine, I think) calling it BUY ANOTHER DAY in an article about product placements in todays flicks.

But, the most gratuitous product placement Bond movie would still have to be Moonraker, surely. 7UP, British Airways, amongst others splashed across huge billboards at the side of a winding goat track of a scenic road. Mind you, with those billboards the view ain't that scenic as a result.

[Qwerty]

AVTAK in its entirety

The fact that Bond's revenge for Tracey ended up being dumping Bloefeld down a smoke stack (can you imagine what Dalton or Connery would have done to him? It really should have been its own movie).

Or rather for Connery: tried to do. "Welcome to hell, Blofeld."

[Kingdom Come]

Having Bond (or whoever it was supposed to be) open the gun barrel wearing a trilby hat.

TWINE having too many characters for most of them to be properly developed.

Letting Maurice Binder leave his titles to the last minute before anyone saw em.

End Credits on YOLT and the dodgy presentation of them.

[Bon-san]

Quiche des cabinet.

Throwing away Bond's revenge on Blofeld.

A laser camera that takes X-ray pictures, a la Looney Tunes.

The incredibly weak "crash landing" of Helga's plane.

Connery-Bond winking to the camera.

JW Pepper in Bangkok.

Overtly obvious special effects "crumbling" of Vietnamese storefronts during the the clumsily executed and cynically contrived motorcycle chase.

CGI para-surfing.

90% of Casino Royale (1967).

[Qwerty]

Letting Maurice Binder leave his titles to the last minute before anyone saw em.

Luckily most of the time he delivered great stuff.

[Scottlee]

- CGI Para-surfing thing in DAD (the worst moment of all)
- Plane ending on DAD (How unoriginal can you get?)
- The scene-cutting durig the Iceland car chase in DAD
- Halle Berry being allowed near a Bond film.
- Halle Berry's backflip off the wall (that would kill her)
- Halle Berry ruining the memory of Honey Ryder by attempting a homage to her
- Halle Berry trying to do funny - "Your mama!"
- Bond bothering to save Halle Berry from drowning
- Halle Berry not all bothered she's about to die in a plane crash
- Halle Berry winning a fight against the world fencing runner-up.
- Halle Berry being in the last ever scene of a truly great James Bond actor.
- Halle Berry winning an Oscar for a non-Bond film (Can I count this?)

Edited by Scottlee, 25 March 2005 - 04:54 PM.

[Kingdom Come]

Am I the only person who likes Halle Berry and Jinx?

I'd also add the weakness of that awful freefall of Bond in Goldeneye to catch up with the plane - the lighting on the plane looks like it was lit in my parents old sitting room of the 1970s!

Pre-titles to TND - why is it so uninvolving? and topped with the worst line ever in a Bond film. Is the line supposed to be funny?

[Sun Tzu]

The CGI parasurfing. Good lord...

Giving Bond a Ford Mustang in DAF.

Worst line ever- "You just killed James Bond!"

You know what...pretty much everything in DAF.

The whole legal battle with Kevin "Dipstick" McClory

NEVER SAY NEVER AGAIN

Pierce Brosnan saying he'd like to see Bond get killed.

[Scottlee]

Just out of curiosity, did Pierce say that before or after he got told he wasn't getting a 5th film?

[YOLT]

Last 20 minutes of:
Octopussy

Why Octopussy?

I disliked the fight in the end. I wished they had finished it in Germany, but they went tı India again. Its like DAD they could have finished it in Iceland, but in one minute they are in N.Korea with commando clothes

Also I was watching LALD, which is a film I do like, today and the hotel scenes in St.Monique seemed very dull and boring. Moore tryed to be like Sean but he failed I think. It reminded me the Dr.No hotel scenes with the tarantula which was suberp.

Also the line in OHMSS "This never happened to the other fella". What is this, hate towards Connery is at maximum, for only that line OHMSS wont be in my top 5 or 10. But thanks that they added it. It is the sign that Lazenby was NEVER Bond. He was just the other fella

Edited by YOLT, 25 March 2005 - 07:21 PM.

[Sun Tzu]

Just out of curiosity, did Pierce say that before or after he got told he wasn't getting a 5th film?

I believe it was before. I seem to recall seeing it on the news several days after DAD was released.

[Qwerty]

Last 20 minutes of:
Octopussy

Why Octopussy?

I disliked the fight in the end. I wished they had finished it in Germany, but they went tı India again. Its like DAD they could have finished it in Iceland, but in one minute they are in N.Korea with commando clothes

To each their own. I loved the Octopussy finale. Kept moving from place to place, but never lost any tension.

Plus John Barry's score throughout was on/above par.