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Doctor Who (Series 9)


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#1891 Lachesis

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 09:13 PM

I must confess after initially loving the last series this one has me a bit ambivalent so far.... the story felt gazumped by the need to foreshadow and many scenes, cracking though they may be in isolation, just feel arbitrary - a collection of soundbites with no convincing cohension - most worryingly urgency and relevence really don't seem on the agenda, even at the end of this tale its a case of shall we follow the clues or just wander off and do something else. Despite the stakes as presented by the opening episodes there is no real sense it matters, which is curiously atypical of anything 'Who'.

I have confidence Moffat will weave a brilliant tale overall, but even if I return to these episodes its unlikely to be because of the story or characters, it will more likely be to look for the clues I missed first time and once found, I can't see a reason to go back - much like I found in the last few seasons, once the 'hand' is revealved it simply feels time to move on, which is a shame because there are episodes from doctors 1-4 I just never tire of seeing - some fundamental aspect of the show appears to be losing out in order to appear 'celever'.... I dunno, hopefully my enthusiasm will pick up next week.

Edited by Lachesis, 01 May 2011 - 09:16 PM.


#1892 Mr. Blofeld

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 10:51 PM

Oh, and...

Spoiler

Spoiler


#1893 Jackanaples

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 11:17 PM

To be fair, Steven Moffat is insanely clever. No question that he's one of the best writers television has ever produced.

Mucking about with time isn't a cliche with DOCTOR WHO, it's the idea at the core of the show. Few writers have ever taken that idea to its logical dramatic conclusions; preferring (whether by design, by not seeing the creative possibilities or by budgetary necessity) to use the TARDIS as a simple means to get from one place to another.

Moffat takes the basic concept of a man who travels through all of time and space and says, "Okay, what does that mean? How would the Doctor experience time? What aspects of this concept can be explored or expressed for better drama than they ever have been before? Considering the format of the show, what can we do to make it even better?"

Certain ideas and themes crop up now and again. That's common in any writer's work. Russell T. Davies seemed to love presenting the Doctor as a tragic figure for example. However, when Moffat revisits something it's always to go in a completely different direction than we've seen before with it:

-The first episode of last season showed us that Amy was getting married the next day. I thought, "Didn't we see a wedding a couple years ago with Donna and 'The Runaway Bride'?" Then I saw the season finale, and realized nope, Moffat had bigger plans in store all along.

-The black cube at Area 51 seems like another inescapable prison for the Silence to keep the Doctor ...until we're inside it and we realize that it's actually part of the Doctor's plan and is in reality a room to keep the Silence out.

-The spacesuits in the library two parter contained the skeletons of those who'd had their bones picked clean by the Vashtinerada. The spacesuit in this episode has a different use and purpose and is seen in the context of the moon landing of 1969. Also, DOCTOR WHO is a science fiction show. Spacesuits are common features in its history.

-Moffat's first two parter featured a child with a gas mask repeatedly asking for it's mother. This one features a child in a spacesuit pleading for help. That's similar but then it's done to different effect and in a wholly different context that we aren't entirely aware of yet.

-In the first episode of last season, Amy asks the Doctor why he wants her to travel with him. He replies breezily, "No reason." Meanwhile he's looking at a monitor examining the crack in her wall. He's lying. Not telling her everything. Which is confirmed in the finale when he tells her his reasons for inviting her all along.

-At the end of the second episode of this season, the Doctor tells Rory and Amy that instead of going to go look for the little girl we're going to go have adventures. While saying that and unbeknownst to them... he's looking at a scanner showing that Amy is both pregnant and not pregnant at the same time (Schrodinger's Womb?!?!). He's already on the job about the little girl in the spacesuit and he's not telling them everything. AND they know what his future with the little girl in the spacesuit is and they're not telling him everything. Effing brilliant.

I like Moffat's monsters because they tend to have a quality that makes them universal and are scarier for it. The statues that can move only when you're not looking at them. Flesh easting shadows. An alien race that you only barely notice in the corner of your eye and immediately forget once you've turned away. I'll take that over Daleks and Cybermen any day.

We're at the beginning of the story so we don't know what the Silence's plan is. However, we do know that they have enslaved humanity for thousands of years and by their own admission, We have ruled your lives since your lives began. You should kill us all on sight, but you will never remember we were even here. Your will is ours. The Doctor takes them at their word and figures out a way to use their own power against them. Q.E.D. and standard operational procedure for the Doctor I'd say.

I know some people who prefer the RTD era to Moffat's but not me. DOCTOR WHO is finally as clever and mindbendingly weird as I've wanted it to be.

#1894 DamnCoffee

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 01:25 AM

Oh, and...

Spoiler

Spoiler



Spoiler


#1895 Mr. Blofeld

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 01:58 AM

Spoiler

Spoiler


#1896 DamnCoffee

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 02:06 AM

Spoiler

Spoiler



Spoiler


#1897 Jackanaples

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 02:43 AM


Spoiler

Spoiler



Spoiler

Well, if true that's a far sight more awesome than any previous season.

#1898 Mr. Blofeld

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 02:54 AM

I've heard he sometimes writes false scenes, to throw people off; that might be one of them... ;)

#1899 Jim

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 05:37 AM

Ah, the joys of being a Bond fan and not having to trouble one's self with contrived, introspective continuities. Roger Moore's stuntman hanging off a dirigible doesn't need much character arc to be entertaining, nor does one have to have sat through hours of guff to be engaged by it.

#1900 marktmurphy

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 10:45 AM

Ah, the joys of being a Bond fan and not having to trouble one's self with contrived, introspective continuities. Roger Moore's stuntman hanging off a dirigible doesn't need much character arc to be entertaining, nor does one have to have sat through hours of guff to be engaged by it.


Back in the 70's stories used to be six parters; jumping into a Jon Pertwee story at episode 2 might not have been exactly easy to pick up either. This entire series is on for six weeks; not really sure I see the problem or the difference.
Have you never encountered serialized drama before?

#1901 Jim

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 11:42 AM


Ah, the joys of being a Bond fan and not having to trouble one's self with contrived, introspective continuities. Roger Moore's stuntman hanging off a dirigible doesn't need much character arc to be entertaining, nor does one have to have sat through hours of guff to be engaged by it.


Back in the 70's stories used to be six parters; jumping into a Jon Pertwee story at episode 2 might not have been exactly easy to pick up either. This entire series is on for six weeks; not really sure I see the problem or the difference.
Have you never encountered serialized drama before?


Yes, yes I have.

Perhaps it's my own preconception that I don't see it as drama but as light entertainment, in much the same way I see the Bonds.

I suspect it's my loss, but I also suspect I'm going to cope.

#1902 DamnCoffee

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 12:52 PM

I've heard he sometimes writes false scenes, to throw people off; that might be one of them... ;)



Then used a load of their budget to film it?

#1903 marktmurphy

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 04:48 PM

Yes, yes I have.

Perhaps it's my own preconception that I don't see it as drama but as light entertainment, in much the same way I see the Bonds.

I suspect it's my loss, but I also suspect I'm going to cope.


One does wonder why you bother posting on these boards. You show such little interest in any of the subject matters contained within; you've developed a sneering tone over the years. Cope away.

#1904 Perry

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Posted 07 May 2011 - 01:01 AM

I believe this latest two-parter to be one of the best Who stories ever.

#1905 killkenny kid

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Posted 08 May 2011 - 12:07 AM

"Oh good, I thought it was yours." :D

#1906 Chief of SIS

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Posted 08 May 2011 - 12:12 AM

I just want to say as an American who just started watching Dr. Who (near the end of the 9th Doctor)...WHY CAN'T WE HAVE TV THIS GOOD?!

#1907 killkenny kid

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Posted 08 May 2011 - 12:27 AM

I just want to say as an American who just started watching Dr. Who (near the end of the 9th Doctor)...WHY CAN'T WE HAVE TV THIS GOOD?!


Indeed.

#1908 Safari Suit

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Posted 08 May 2011 - 10:23 AM

I just want to say as an American who just started watching Dr. Who (near the end of the 9th Doctor)...WHY CAN'T WE HAVE TV THIS GOOD?!


Seriously? You do! And vastly better!

It's funny; everyone in the UK is wondering why we can't do TV as good as the Americans these days. I guess the grass really is always greener.

#1909 Perry

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Posted 08 May 2011 - 10:14 PM

I don't watch any American TV. I hardly watch any TV come to think of it.

#1910 killkenny kid

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Posted 14 May 2011 - 10:37 PM

Can't say I'm a Gaiman fan. But, that was a fun ride.

#1911 DamnCoffee

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Posted 15 May 2011 - 01:30 AM

Absoloutely loved The Doctor's Wife. Never cried at Doctor Who since End of Time Part Two. Bloody brilliant. Best episode of the series so far!

#1912 Harry Fawkes

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Posted 15 May 2011 - 08:54 AM

Bloody hell! I couldn't stop shedding a tear at the end of this one.


By far the best episode so far.

Well done for a wonderful and heart warm episode.

Harry

#1913 David Schofield

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Posted 15 May 2011 - 09:16 AM

Certainly the best of the series so far.

Entertaining rubbish. But rubbish none the less.

I've learned with Who to not expect to be anything other than disappointed. And so far, they have not failed to disapppoint me.

Still, chance to get the family round the TV and wallow in nostalgia for the heady great days of Pertwee and watching the show with my own parents. :tup:

#1914 Mr. Blofeld

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Posted 22 May 2011 - 09:20 PM

the heady great days of Pertwee

Bollocks! Nobody's better than Troughton... :P

Regardless, I'm liking the way this series is playing out... even if Eyepatch Woman is getting on my nerves.

#1915 Mr. Blofeld

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 02:21 AM

August 27th! In Great Britain and America! :D

Who's watchin'? (Excuse the pun.) :P

#1916 DamnCoffee

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 10:54 PM

ARGH! As strong as the episodes themselves were, I see this series as the equivalent of watching the last 10 minutes of Waters of Mars and then End Of Time 1 & 2 4 times over and him not even regenerating at the end, its that much of a let down. Now you can argue, well of course The Doctor wasnt actually going to die and obviously he wasnt but the way he escaped was so uninspired and essentially just a reset button resolution it just makes everything that preceded it seem pointless. :\

If this had been a 10 hour, series long build up to his regeneration, like he actually went through the phases of trying to escape it then facing up to it (even if it copies exactly what happened with EOT) it’d actually have some meaning and poignancy to it.

And then there’s those that say you shouldn’t pick it apart you should just enjoy it. I say “Well no, I should be able to pick it apart if its disappointing. its like saying. I’m gonna make a rabbit appear out of a hat. then when there’s no frigging rabbit of course its disappointing!”

When Russell T Davies made the regeneration cliffhanger in Series 4, that was brilliant ‘cos it was unexpected and when he obviously didnt regenerate, there wasnt massive disappointment because there wasnt 10 hours of hype building up to something that wasnt gonna happen.

Moffat is far too clever for his own good. Amy and Rory have been sidelined to make this season a fanwank to River Song, who’s lost all her interest as a character cos there’s no mystery surrounding her anymore but Moffats still probably gonna have her all over Season 7.

If I were Moffat I’d have done this when Smith was actually leaving, this whole season is gonna look so silly in a couple of years when he actually does leave. and its not gonna have any impact either. its like “Oh look, 11s dying. again.”

#1917 Ernst Stavro Blofeld Jr.

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 10:30 PM

I disagree.

The whole season wasn't dedicated to the Doctor's death, which was the very problem. All of Moffat's episodes dealt with that them, but none of the others did except Closing Time. The reason I didn't like this season as a whole is due to the fact that Moffat's episodes had a distinctively different feel to the rest of the season as a whole. Many seem to hate the Tessalector solution, but it was set up for a reason. They already tried to rewrite time and be clever with River emptying the guns, but that resulted in time freezing and the alternate reality of the finale. Basically, Moffat was giving people two different options and showing that sometimes, the simpler solution is the best. The Tessalector was a good idea and I completely let it slip my mind and the fact that it was set up in a previous episode is a good thing, as that's how fiction is supposed to work. If he had just pulled a spaceship with tiny people out of his [censored] I would have been livid.

Can't disagree that this would have been a good arc to set up a new Doctor, however, I love Smith's Doctor and hardly want to see him go. Its like watching Troughton episodes for the first time as he's really embodied him this season, which I love. It will be interesting to see what The Fall of the Eleventh is I'm sure both the Silence and this event are tied to the 11th Doctor.

#1918 Lachesis

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 11:14 PM

To my mind this season was too concerned with delivering a puzzle as opposed to a story, yet it's a puzzle where we are selectivly excluded from information and where the characters concerned seem to have no real interest or sense of urgency in events they supposedly know are coming. I think the 'Doctors Wife' was one of the best episodes ever and still love Matt Smith's Doctor, but the season never really came alive for me, I never felt involved and a full season into his tenure the Doctor's eccentricity is becoming too heavily scrpited as opposed to naturally occuring from the performance...by no means bad but after season 5 and with such a great team travelling in the TARDIS I was expecting better.

Edited by Lachesis, 06 October 2011 - 11:16 PM.


#1919 marktmurphy

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 06:07 PM

There's a fun ten minute preview of Tom Baker's first story for Big Finish to listen to here:



#1920 sharpshooter

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 02:29 AM

I didn't think much of the latest Christmas special. I'm not chomping at the bit to watch it again. Not that any of them since 2005 have been anything 'special' in the first place.