587 replies to this topic

[Mr. Kidd]

For me, there is a place in the world for the serious espionage thrills
and action of FRWL and the fantastic hi-tech gadget-filled adventures
like DAF. The SAME series, the SAME actor as Bond, but two wildy
diverse films and directorial styles. THAT to me is what makes the
series so much fun and keeps the formula fresh. Although everyone
has their favorites, it's sad to see fans divided into camps as to which
films were better, the "serious" early films or the later "outrageous"
ones. They are all BOND;)

[Scottlee]

I fully agree Mr Kidd.

There isn't a single Bond movie I dislike, at least in the official series

[sausagebrigade]

Thunderball all the way!

[kevrichardson]

Strange how "FRWL" is in the lead. It is also strange since most post on if it would work today have been mixed .

[crashdrive]

Alright, here are my 2 cents. I voted for 'Goldfinger'. Although I think 'From Russia With Love' is the real template for future Bond productions, it is 'GF' I just enjoy watching most.

'Dr. No' was a terrific introduction of Bond. The casting was visionary and it includes several classic setpieces. It's a shame Broccoli & Young didn't have more money at their disposal. It's still a joy to watch 40 years later (although the pace is relatively slow and the locations are limited).

'From Russia With Love' is probably the best Bond film. Like 'DN' it introduced many essential elements to the Bond franchise and featured functional exotic locations, several classic suspense scenes, terrific villains & without a doubt the best Bond 'sidekick'. Still personally I feel 'FRWL' feels a little outdated at times. The pace is slow when Bond is in Istanbul.

'Goldfinger' is just the most fun to watch. Time flies by when I watch it. Almost 40 years later, the pace still never lets down. No other Bond films features as many classic scenes as this one. Breathtaking locations a plenty. It inspires and entertains. The only flaw I can find is the casting of Felix. People who say the romance between Bond and Galore is not convincing should forget about the fact Galore was a lesbian in the book.

I'm surprised how many people here love 'Thunderball'. It's one of my least favorite Bond films. It has aged very badly. The effects, the dubbing and background projection distract from the plot and there's just too much fast motion in the suspense scenes. I never liked Bond films where the villain is taking the world for ransom. Although I love the Bondgirls in it, I think the underwater scenes are just tedious to watch. There's also a great lack of classic scenes. All imho of course

'You Only Live Twice' suffers from many of the same problems I have with 'TB'. Still, these faults are easily forgiven. 'YOLT' has a lot of scenes you will definately never forget after watching it. Again the pace slows down mid way through the film, but from the moment Connery discovers SPECTRE's volcano base, the film is highly enjoyable.

'Diamonds are Forever' is easily my least favorite Connery Bond film and probably one of my least favorite films of the franchise. Gray is miscast as Blofed, the tone is all wrong, apart from two scenes (the elevator fight & crematorium scene) I don't think this film has any classic scenes to offer and I think practically all the characters are unbelievable. Tom Mankiewicz is the worst thing that happened to the Bond series since Kevin McClory.
Well, there you have it. Feel free to disagree.

[kevrichardson]

"Dr.No" is a great film as you said . A good intro to Bond . "FRWL" is a flawless film , it's not dated simply because the battle is not Russia vs, Britain , it's agains SPECTRE. The film still looks great .Best cast of any Bond. Goldfinger is "overrated" !! Just a showcase for a fantasy car(AstonMartin) . Unbelieveable villians , plot that makes no sense . The bregining of the Guy Hamilton nightmare with Bond . Would have been a different , perhaps better film had Terance Young stay on board to direct. "Thunderball" is a great film , your really ought to give it a chance . The underwater sequences are nto that tedious. Young and Peter Hunt who was second unit director and editor . Turned in a great Bond film . This was Bond last film was he did detective work . Where as in Goldfinger Bond does not but react to what is happening . And all by luck stops the villian . "YOLT" is good fantasy entertainment . Most of it move fairly fast , Lewis Gilbert direction had not reach the slapstick level of "Moonraker" . The action is non-stop ,the locations are the best of the series until "OHMSS" . Connery suffered from two things , boredom and weigth gain . Was on auto-pilot . "DAF" was just a paycheck . It was the first of Guy Hamilton Bond as a member of Monty Python . Charles Grey gave a great impression of how Noel Coward would have been as Dr.NO .

[crashdrive]

We agree about 'Dr. No', 'YOLT' & 'DAF'. When I say 'FRWL' is dated, I don't mean the subject matter or the social climate, but the pacing of the film. It's one of the most difficult films to watch.
I can't see how Young could have made a better movie out of 'GF'. If you don't like the tone of this film (which is odd since a majority of the Bond films are exactly like this, or worse) fine, but you can't deny that the execution is perfect. 'GF' is simply a terrific film. Classic scenes, unforgetable villains, a perfect and independent Bondgirl and the best titlesong of the series. How one can be a Bond fan and not love 'Goldfinger' is simply beyond me.
I watched 'TB' today and my opinion hasn't changed one bit. It's terribly outdated and I think the underwater scenes are really tedious. There are hardly any memorable scenes. Nothing that matches scenes like the opening sequence (signature cool), "she's covered in paint....goldpaint', the golf match, be-heading the statue... I could go on and on...of 'Goldfinger'. If you say 'GF' was just a showcase for the AM, I'm surprised you don't think 'TB' is a showcase for the Disco Volante. And Bond has as much luck (if not more) in 'TB' as he has in 'GF'. If it wasn't for the fact that the nurse saved Connery's life, 'TB' would have been a very short film. And in the end, Domino saves his life again by shooting Largo. In 'GF' at least, Bond can take care of himself. And why do you say the plot of 'GF' doesn't make any sense. I think it makes perfect sense and is as visually compelling as it is believable. And if you don't think Connery does any detective work, you really should watched 'GF' again. I'm sorry kev, but you're not making any sense.

[Loomis]

Originally posted by kevrichardson

Goldfinger is "overrated" !! Just a showcase for a fantasy car(AstonMartin) . Unbelieveable villians , plot that makes no sense . The bregining of the Guy Hamilton nightmare with Bond ... Where as in Goldfinger Bond does not but react to what is happening . And all by luck stops the villian .

I'm sorry, I shouldn't be poking the fire here, but what the **** are you on, kevrichardson? In what way does the plot of GOLDFINGER make no sense? (Okay, I concede that there are plot holes, but hey, every Bond film's got 'em.) And how are the villains more unbelievable than, say, Blofeld, Jaws or Gustav Graves? Why do you say that Bond does nothing but react passively to events in GOLDFINGER? The Guy Hamilton "nightmare"? The film's a copper-bottomed classic!!!!!!!!

[kevrichardson]

One can be a Bond fan and disagree on which is their favorite Bond . some folks like Moore only . Others Connery , while some love Brosnan. Look "GoldFinger" just does not do it for me . One of the weakest novels . And the most over rate Bond film ever . How can you not like "FRWL" . The pacing of the film is fine . The right balance of romance and epionage . With the finest Bond cast in the history of film. The fight on theb orient express is superior to the Oddjob/Bond mess in Fort Knox . Crashdive given today's world climate / ith chemical , biological and nuclear weapons all over the place how can "ThunderBall" seem outdated . Here is a interesting article in the MKKBB website www.ianfleming.org. It has a entire series on the troubled history of "ThunderBall". There is one more website it is devoted to "Thunderball" , www.obsessional.org.uk . I think you should look them up .

[OOSe7en]

I voted for "Goldfinger" since IMO it became the prototype for all the Bond films that followed. "Goldfinger" truly had everything and was the movie that started my childhood fascination with Bond.

I struggled with both "Goldfinger" and FRWL as to which is the best movie. I guess I'd have to say that FRWL really is the best movie but my favorite would have to be "Goldfinger." Even while writing this I'm shaking my head since they are both absolute classics.

I agree that FRWL does stand up better after all these years.

[kevrichardson]

Originally posted by OOSe7en
I voted for "Goldfinger" since IMO it became the prototype for all the Bond films that followed. "Goldfinger" truly had everything and was the movie that started my childhood fascination with Bond.
I struggled with both "Goldfinger" and FRWL as to which is the best movie. I guess I'd have to say that FRWL really is the best movie but my favorite would have to be "Goldfinger." Even while writing this I'm shaking my head since they are both absolute classics.
I agree that FRWL does stand up better after all these years.

Out of over 20 films in 40 year each one has it's merit . Goldfinger was great when i saw it as a kid. As a Adult it okay , yes given anything else on TV . I will watch "Goldfinger" and enjoy it. Not ever Star Wars or Star Trek fan love every film. Connery was better in "FRWL" as i said he does nothing great in "GF" . The main reason most dislike "TB" is the underwater stuff . Which is a important part of the plot . "FRWL" of all the Bonds in a tightly constructed film . Moves will and his the most enduring villians ever . Reason "Goldfinger" is liked , Gert Frobe . He looked the part . Then i looked Telly Salavas in"OHMSS" also .

[crashdrive]

Originally posted by kevrichardson
Look "GoldFinger" just does not do it for me . One of the weakest novels . And the most over rate Bond film ever .

Could explain why please? And what does it matter that the novel was weak? This has no effect on the film.

Originally posted by kevrichardson
How can you not like "FRWL" .

Where did I say I did not like 'FRWL'? Had you read my post carefully you would find that I think 'FRWL' is one of the great Bond films

Originally posted by kevrichardson
The pacing of the film is fine .  

For us youngsters, the pacing is really slow. A lot of scenes that not further the plot. Personally, I don't have a real problem with this, but the reason why I prefer 'GF' over 'FRWL' is that 'GF' has a pacing that isn't outdated. I do agree the fight between Grant and Bond is better, but the fight between Oddjob and Bond is still one of the top five fights in the series.

Originally posted by kevrichardson
Crashdive given today's world climate / ith chemical , biological and nuclear weapons all over the place how can "ThunderBall" seem outdated .

Again, when I say the film is outdated, I'm talking about pacing, effects and filmtechnique. That said, I think 'GF' is still up-to-date in this age of chemical, biological and nuclear weapons. An organisation like Spectre however is really outdated. GF stood the test of time, the greatest test of all.

Originally posted by kevrichardson
Here is a interesting article in the MKKBB website www.ianfleming.org.  It has a entire series on the troubled history of "ThunderBall".  There is one more website it is devoted to "Thunderball" , www.obsessional.org.uk . I think you should look them up .

Maybe I will, but I don't think this will change my opinion. As 'TB' stands now, it's only a mediocre Bond film (IMHO).

[kevrichardson]

Ha! Thunderball a mediocre film . Your kidding . How is a organization like SPECTRE outdate . Recall Al Qaeda ? Goldfinger is a outdated let the gangsters rob the bank thriller . With a big Korean mute as a minor Villian . Oddjob and Bond don't really engage in a fight . Like Grant /Bond in "FRWL" . It's a minor fight . Your age should have nothing to do with it. I saw the film young . It's not that good . some part of the film improve upon the novel . Read it , laser beam for a circilar saw. I will not rehash the "Pussy Galore " thing . The fight in "TB" pre-title is superior to Oddjob/Bond in Fort Knox . We disagree that's all .

[crashdrive]

Originally posted by kevrichardson
How is a organization like SPECTRE outdate . Recall Al Qaeda ?  Goldfinger is a outdated let the gangsters rob the bank thriller .

I doubt Al Qaeda have meetings in the middle of Paris. And if you were to watch 'GF' again, you would find that 'GF' is more than a gangsters-rob-bank thriller. They don't even want to try and rob it. That's the brilliance of it. But I guess you can't persuade me 'Thunderball' isn't a mediocre film and I can't persuade you 'Goldfinger' is a masterpiece and definately not overrated.

[kevrichardson]

I think the "Gangsters who are gased" . Had intention of robbing Fort Knox . Did not know of Goldfinger's original plans . Oh by the way yes the title song is defintive Bond song . My one wish (since i have very few) was for Bassey to sing all the Bonds . Back on track , very humorous the Al Qaeda having meetings in Paris . My be Amsterdam , I hear it's quite a beautiful city . I respect you opinion . Mediocre film "ThunderBall" no it's not . Masterpiece "Goldfinger" , it's a good Bond film that was at the height of the 60's Bond craze . Connery prefected his automatic pilot Bond in this film . Where in Dr.No ,FRWL , TB he had to act . You can't compare Domino to Pussy Galore in terms of senuality . Both had a AstonMartin ! Next i guess is your thoughts on "OHMSS" .

[ChandlerBing]

Next thing you know you're going to say Moonraker and Man With The Golden Gun were better.

[kevrichardson]

Originally posted by ChandlerBing
Next thing you know you're going to say Moonraker and Man With The Golden Gun were better.

If you have anything important to post do so. "Moonraker " is a nice action comedy with James Bond as a secondary character . Outside of Guy Hamliton's hack direction , the plot of "TMWTGG" improves upon the original Fleming story.

[Honey Rider]

From Russia with Love

[Scottlee]

Originally posted by kevrichardson
.  The fight on theb orient express is superior to the Oddjob/Bond mess in Fort Knox

I'm just curious - What don't you like about the Fort Knox fight?

[kevrichardson]

Originally posted by Scottlee

I'm just curious - What don't you like about the Fort Knox fight?

Whats great about it ? It's not a fight in so much as Bond is just thrown around like a rag-doll by oddjob. The fight in the Oreint Express was "more" realistic . Then Bond just get's lucky .

[Dr Noah]

I voted for DAF because it is so under-rated and everyone with sense would vote for Goldfinger anyway

If it came down to best (not favourite) my list would be :-

01) Goldfinger (the template for the series)
02) You Only Live Twice
03) From Russia With Love (though it is untypical of the series)
04) Diamonds Are Forever
05) Thunderball ( a bit of a curates egg)
06) Never Say Never Again
07) Dr No

[Gunther_Bunt]

From Russia with Love is best!!!

I would say Thunderball is 2nd.

However saying that, I have taken a liking to DAF recently, strange...

[1q2w3e4r]

Okay because Thunderball is tied FRWL for me. I got a question for crashdive. Speaking of useless bits of scenes. Answer me, why Goldfinger goes to all the trouble of explaining himself to the Detroit Purple Mob and the Spangled Gang. Then procedes to gas them anyway...

Incidently, i've read Terrance Young came in and helped re-edit Goldfinger because Hamilton had Bond captured like 20-25 minutes into the movie. Can't for the life of me remember where, but probably stands to reason when you watch his other Bond vechiles DAF, LALD and TMWTGG. Maybe Terrance is owed a big pat on the back for you percieved perfection of Goldfinger

[kevrichardson]

Well if what you have written is true about Goldfinger and Guy Hamilton.Having Terance Young come in and re-edit the film . Where was Peter Hunt ? If true ! It proves what a hack Hamilton was . And how in over is head he was with Bond. "Goldfinger" would be a different movie if Terence Young had stayed . Broccoli and Saltzman would not paid him what he wanted.

[crashdrive]

Originally posted by 1q2w3e4r
Maybe Terrance is owed a big pat on the back for you percieved perfection of Goldfinger

Maybe he is. But the question is not what was the best directed Connery Bond film. The question is; What is the best Connery film? And I just happen to think 'Goldfinger' is my favorite.
And to answer your question; Perhaps the scene is important because Bond (and the audience) has to learn several things; what Goldfinger is planning to do and how evil Goldfinger is. Perhaps Goldfinger just really wants to explain his master plan to an audience (eventhough he will kill them shorty after that). Perhaps the scene doesn't make any sense. Your guess is as good as mine. What I do know is this; I was entertained during that scene. And I wasn't bothered by the logistics.

[kevrichardson]

May be i will revive my original thread about the film "Goldfinger" . On whether it's overrated . But more to the point . CrashDrive , it might have been a "better" Bond had Terance Young stayed . Young was involved in the pre-production and had suggested some ideas in the early script development . If "FRWL" is taken as a prototype Bond film. In turns of stylistic direction . With out the reliance on "humor" .Which Guy Hamilton did in his Bonds . Then perhaps "Goldfinger" would have been (i my myopic eyes !!) a real special films .

[crashdrive]

Originally posted by kevrichardson
it might have been a "better" Bond had Terance Young stayed .

Again, perhaps, but I can't see how. 'Goldfinger' in my book is picture perfect. I just can't find anything wrong with it (with the possible exception of the acting of Tania Mallet/ Tilly Masterson). The movie was way ahead of it's time and to this day never gets boring. Not bad for a 40 year old movie.

[kevrichardson]

Originally posted by crashdrive

Again, perhaps, but I can't see how. 'Goldfinger' in my book is picture perfect. I just can't find anything wrong with it (with the possible exception of the acting of Tania Mallet/ Tilly Masterson). The movie was way ahead of it's time and to this day never gets boring. Not bad for a 40 year old movie.

Which Connery Bond film is boring (outside of your dislike of Thunderball) . I do not find "Goldfinger" to be a perfect Bond film .In fact there is not such thing in my mind . the film is representive of Richard Maibaum's notion of bumps (39 bump in fact) . Thing just move alone at a fast paste . With no direct relation to what going on . So Connery/Bond spends his whole time reacting to events . Besides if Goldfinger was a real master criminal . He would have cut Bond inhalf woth the laser any way.

[crashdrive]

Originally posted by kevrichardson
Which Connery Bond film is boring (outside of your dislike of Thunderball). I do not find "Goldfinger" to be a perfect Bond film. In fact there is not such thing in my mind. Thing just move alone at a fast paste.

I don't think a boring Bond film has ever and will ever be made. But the Connery Bond film I find least enjoyable is 'Diamonds Are Forever'.
And I don't agree things just 'move along'. 'Goldfinger' is just too sharply written for that. Bond doesn't just react. He acts. You might want to recheck your copy of 'Goldfinger'. I think that in it's genre 'Goldfinger' is perfect. There is nothing in the movie I have trouble with accepting, the action is still highly suspensefull and never tedious and the dialogue is just terrific.

[kevrichardson]

What's suspenseful in "Goldfinger" . The Scene with the laser . The scenes at the "Stud Farm" with the submission of Pussy Galore is really just not tedious . It's unbelievable !!! Then she helps Bond foil Goldfinger's plans . Then she is enlisted to fly the plane to Cuba .