147 replies to this topic

[Jim]

OK, this goes on a bit. Diasagree all you like. Know this: I don't really care.


A is for Arnold, D. Listen, I begs yer, to the soundtracks to any three John Barry scored Bond films. Let's use From Russia, with Love, Goldfinger and Thunderball as examples. Three soundtracks in three years. All identifiably Bond. All identifiably different. I'm afraid that the music to Die Another Day sounds so very similar to the previous two that it is indistinguishable; most of the themes sound the same and some of them are the same. Where there is anything "new" - the tourist-lite hotel lobby Cuban music as a particularly rancid example, it's fairly obvious that it's just a reworking of the James Bond theme. Has Mr Arnold anything new to tell us? Iced Inc.; yep, that's right, you do. Unfair to sum it up as a poor effort because it is readily apparent that very little effort has gone into it. So let's just call it poor. Starts in an ugly manner, the gunbarrel theme being rattled out by a metal epileptic locked inside a tin box, and proceeds to get...similar. I'm not criticising Mr Arnold for not being John Barry - that would be surreal - but Arnold, D, has been widely quoted as saying he put everything into the soundtrack for Tomorrow Never Dies, and I believe him. Spent force? Perhaps this score was written in a rush, those three years it took to score one film...

A is also for accents, indistinguishable. I'm talking about you, cigar man. Although rushing the script and making it indistinct may be good judgment on the actor's part, given what everyone else has been forced to say. Perhaps it was scripted in a rush, those three years it took to produce one film...

A is also for acting, amateurish. The Hong Kong hotel manager and the Buckingham Palace tourists/journalists are cases in point. Perhaps it was filmed in a rush, those three years it took to produce one film...

A is also for abomination, aggravating.

[This list is non-exhaustive]

[Jim]

B is for Brosnan, P. OK, so this could go either way (and it's not looking good whichever one is chosen). I could praise the man for choosing not to "act" at all during this one, saving us from the forced and cringingly embarassing performance of The World is not Enough, when his limits as an actor were cruelly exposed. I could praise him...

...but shockingly predictably, I won't, because he doesn't appear to make any sort of effort here at all. Now, there is a difference between making it look effiortless and not appearing to care very much, and I'm afraid the impression given off like a bad stench here is the latter. Why does he look so bored with it all? One would think he had better things to do, and he's thinking of his "better" life in an alternative universe where he remained a two-bit TV movie and infomercial actor, providing Troy McClure narrations on other people's films (qv. Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves, the "making of"). As the man "says", albeit rolling the words around his gob like a dog trying to masticate a hot potato, "put your back into it". Can't and won't say it's a poor performance, because it's debateable whether it's a performance at all...but on balance, it's marginally better than having him try to do acting at us again. Perhaps he thinks that funny voice of his is "acting". Whoever told him that must be having a jolly good laugh. BrosnanBond; a witless amalgam of all that has gone before without adding anything particularly new except a new head. And it's reaching the point where the neck's developing further fatwrinkles and BrosnanBond is bedding women young enough to be his daughter. A bored Bond, in some scenes and then not, leches after women half his age, or younger, and...hold on, it's A View to a Kill, three films early. Having pinched the act, the Brosnasaurus finally has become Roger Moore. Albeit without the class and wit and the slightly daffy charm replaced with a unpleasant plastic oiliness.

And yet, it remains to his credit that he doesn't inflict his talent upon us. But the CGI version three-quarters of the way through was thinner, slicker, more animated (bad pun) and could quite easily have replaced Mr Brosnan during the last thirty-five minutes or so because I cannot recall anything done by Mr Brosnan during that period. Who knows: perhaps it did.

B is also for bikini, orange; by far the most stimulating moment, albeit leading to an exchange of dialogue that isn't so much childish as still in the womb.

B is also for beard, funny. The grotesque product placement of the Philishave box in the Hong Kong hotel scene prompts the ssupicion that the only reason Bond is captured for as long as 14 months is so that he could grow a beard so that he could use one of these wonderful new shavers to shave it off with.

B is also for breasts, Mr Brosnan's. Not so much in the handover sequence (and if scorpion venom gives one pectorals like that, bring it on; Mr Brosnan is quite good in this scene. Because he doesn't say very much) - but later in the film, when the weight has fluctuated quite significantly, he's got great big wobbly chebs - especially noticeable in the parts whe he's wearing that black tanktop. Pierce, ol' pal ol' buddy: the neck's on it's way out, so try not to make it too bad, huh? Lay off the complex carbohydrates, yer bloater.

B is also for bollocks, awful

[Jim]

C is for Computers, images generated by. There's this bit - did anyone else spot it? - involves surfing...ice floes...no? Was I the only one? Was I the only one who thought this scene was a catastrophe (which also begins with C, spellin' fans). What's particularly irritating is that this scene was entirely unnecessary. When Bond escapes in that dragster thing (and that'll teach that naughty Gustav Graves to leave its keys in the ignition), where the hell does he think he's going? Why does he end up on the edge of a cliff? Can't he (um) "turn around"? And how come he ends up on a cliff edge when the Ice Palace only appears to be a few inches above water? What's going on? And then, during this scene, which appears to have been knocked up on one of Charles babbage's prototypes, when the hastily inserted shots of Mr Brosnan are presented to us for our entertainment, does he appear to have no hair out of plce (assuming the hair is real) and be bone dry? I know wood is quite absorbent, but that's ridiculous. Is this the A View to a Kill homage - the least physically convincing thing for an ageing Bond to have done since snowboarding?

C is also for Cleese, John. Nope, sorry, it's not working.

C is also for crud.

[Jim]

D is for "Diamonds, African Conflict". A choice phrase repeated ad nauseam. We. Got. it. The. First. Time. The usual crass attempt at having something "wrenched from the headlines". And the phrase is relentless, repeated too often to the point of it sounding rather odd. Couldn't they just have used the phrase "illegal diamonds". Or are we still trying to impress the stupid children in the audience into believing that they're watching something with a searingly realistic backstory which only serves to undermine the film by rendering it more replete with holes (if that's not an oxymoron, which I rather suspect it might be) than if not mentioned at all? Example: before BrosnanBond pronouncing words oddly and his Cuban friend also pronouncing words oddly (to the point where one thinks, for artistic reasons, the filmmakers are reaching out to the three people in the world who speak esperanto. Or spaniel) suddenly discover that the diamonds in Zao's necklace, which Bond was ever so very fortunate to grab hold of, are (wait for it) "African Conflict Diamonds" despite being GG gems, has nobody actually established this before? Has Graves killed all the jewellers? Is Hatton Garden a wasteland? Is Antwerp off the map? Toss. Lame to the point of crawling across the floor andasking for my mercy. Which I won't give. Film falls apart at that moment.

D is also for destruction, sports car. Look at the nice Ford products. They don't get wrecked. We don't see the fate befalling the natty green Jaguar onscreen. However, Porsche and Ferrari and Lamborghini have their products utterly totalled. Which is nice. For Ford. I'm sure these images were in the script before that deal was struck. Sure.

D is also for dog, shabby

[Jim]

E is for England, apparent bashing of. A definite anti-British slant to this Bond film. MrBrosnan's accent becomes ever more transatlantic, but we can hardly blame him for that because he's never been British anyway. He is however ostensibly playing a Scotsman. But given that laughably weak moment in The Thomas Crown Pepsi One Affair when he inflicts the Scottish accent upon people who have paid to watch him do that (for whatever perverted reason (the watching and the accent)), it's probably better that he does turn James Bond into a Bostonian. Henry James Bond.

Onward, the Dench M (how on Earth did she escape a court martial after the Elektra King affair? Perhaps they wanted to forget TWINE; good enough reason), is shown to be a fool, without the respect of her American peers. And can't be bothered to check out the background of her own employees. So, let me get this right. You send James Bond to infiltrate Colonel Moon. That's North Korean "renegade" (="too bad even for the IRA"/ Patriot Games level of offensiveness) Colonel Moon. Is there anythingon you files about Colonel Moon? What do you know about (here it comes again) Colonel Moon? Could you possibly have done any checks to see, for example, what he was up to at Harvard? No? I know, why not blame the Americans for not reading Miranda Frost's CV? OK, once you'd got past the "Clean Driver's Licence" it might havegot a bit boring, but there might have been something on there to take your interest as head of the British Secret Service? At Harvard...hmm? Fencing team? Hmm? No...OK then. I gave you a chance, you half-witted cow.

Graves is presented as the worst type of British public schoolboy lout, a supposed mirror image of Bond. Well, this would be fine 'n' dandy were BrosnanBond actually like that. But no; all nice teeth and muttered dull one-liners, the concept doesn't work. The idea that Col. moon based his new persona on BrosnanBond is laughable. As subtext, that fails utterly. But another subext develops. That Gustav Graves is as close to Fleming's Bond as we've seen (and sorry to those who haven't read any of Fleming's books, but James Bond isn't all nicey nicey blarney grin teeth). Dalton almost had it, but lacked the breeding sneer. So BrosnanBond kills off James Bond. Did they really want that subext? If it was intended, it's as clear a signal as we're getting that there never will be a straight adaptation of FlemingBond and we have to put up with this blancmange for the rest of the series. Yeech.

E is also for explosions, inevitable resort to. Oh dear, the three year olds in the audience, having been impressed into believeing they were watching something with depth when we shouted DEFENCE MECHANISM at them in today's requisite Freud moment as we chip away at Bond, they're dropping off. let's blow something up. I know, let's have Zao follow Bond into a melting ice palace for no reason. Wait outside, yer gem-encrusted mutant. if he doesn't come out, he'll drown. if he does, get him then. Then you might survive into another film and not be mashed up by a chandelier. Anyway, enough dialogue, let's have things go boom and bang and weee. I know; let's cobble together a car chase and then re-edit it into such a fashion as lots of thing appear to happen but it's hard to say what they were...

E is also for editing, smart-alec. The car chase is, as with all Mr Armstrong's action scenes, seemingly filmed from about half a mile away, and so it's admittedly a difficult task for an editor to try to get some energy into it. However, the undercranked/overcranked style detaches us from the speed the cars are going, and what's the point of that? And how can we not guffaw wildly as an ageing and increasingly corpulent BrosnanBond is winched into the CGI sequence? And how can we not think the final fight(s) a bit of a mess due to the (contractually obliged) cutting between the Emperor/Robocop and Luke Skywalker and Jinx and Frost having a bit of a girly fight. Shouldn't it be Bond against Frost? After all - she is the one who set him up (see F, to come). Oh no, but slapping a woman about wouldn't be the BrosnanBond way. Shooting them, fine - but that's a bit cowardly, frankly.

E is also for execrable, tragically

[Jim]

F to J coming shortly. But I need a break. As, no doubt, do you. Time to descend back into the madness.

[deth]

:eek:

[Melancholy Productions]

Oh, I get it, it's a DAD bashing thread!

001 day till DAD Aussies!

Cheerio,
Chris.

[freemo]

Oh, I get it, it's a DAD bashing thread!

I thought it was a thread on Jim's (sort of) review, I could be wrong though.

[Felix's lighter]

"That Gustav Graves is as close to Fleming's Bond as we've seen (and sorry to those who haven't read any of Fleming's books, but James Bond isn't all nicey nicey blarney grin teeth). Dalton almost had it, but lacked the breeding sneer."

Am I missing something in Fleming's books? Maybe Fleming's Bond wasn't particularly "nicey-nice" but I don't recall him being as off-his-rocker as Dalton fans would make him out to be. I don't recall, for instance, Fleming's Bond ever slapping a woman. That did, however, happen several times in the films. Can someone actually provide me with some EXAMPLES of Fleming's Bond's supposed "ruthlessness"?

[Adam]

Originally posted by freemo


I thought it was a thread on Jim's (sort of) review, I could be wrong though.

Ok I don't want to be rude here, but you really need to learn to spot sarcasm

[marktmurphy]

Before you move off the subject of England, I think its worth noting that it seems to have been entirely filmed here, which for a movie set in 6 countries is a little disappointing. The first Bond movie in which the lead actor fails to appear in any, I'll say that again: ANY of the foreign locations. No cash in the EON piggy? This only adds to the strangely small scale feel of it- where has everybody gone? Why do we only meet about four characters? It feels like an Avengers episode where they famously had empty streets because they couldn't afford extras. Just some guys with machine guns in the Ice Palace chase- some people at Blades, meet a few people at the party- know what I mean?

[Blue Eyes]

I'm not quite sure what you mean Mark. For one, Pierce couldn't go to Iceland because of his knee. And no one could go to Cuba or North Korea. Sending him to Hong Kong would have been pointless as it's only two seconds of out door scenery.

[marktmurphy]

Doesn't not make it a fact though, and it shows on screen.

[Mister Asterix]

Jim, a wonderfully written and imaginative review thus far with some great points, most of which I disagree with. Please continue.

[Fiona]

Originally posted by Felix's lighter
"That Gustav Graves is as close to Fleming's Bond as we've seen (and sorry to those who haven't read any of Fleming's books, but James Bond isn't all nicey nicey blarney grin teeth). Dalton almost had it, but lacked the breeding sneer."

Am I missing something in Fleming's books? Maybe Fleming's Bond wasn't particularly "nicey-nice" but I don't recall him being as off-his-rocker as Dalton fans would make him out to be. I don't recall, for instance, Fleming's Bond ever slapping a woman. That did, however, happen several times in the films. Can someone actually provide me with some EXAMPLES of Fleming's Bond's supposed "ruthlessness"?

First of all I'd like to agree with Jim. Yes I enjoyed most of it but over all it was so LAME.

I agree Bond isn't off his rocker. I can't find any reference to Bond actually hitting a girl either in my novels or 007 a report by O.F Snelling or The Book Of Bond by Lt.-Col. William ('Bill') Tanner (Both of these contemporary books), but he is a PIG! And suffers from most men's affliction that of Turning a Lesbian, Pussy and to certain extent Tilly. In the male dominated 50's of course the Lesbian in question would "turn" it couldn't be any other way.
"They tell me you only liked women."
"I never met a man before"
Oh, Purrlease! I doubt if Goldfinger was written now that would be the case. I sincerely hope not!
Bond is cruel in thought and the way he makes love to women
'All women love semi-rape. They love to be taken. It was his sweet brutality against my bruised body that had made his act of love so piercingly wonderful" That was meant to come from Vivienne Michel, Narration meant to be from a girls perspective but so obviously male. So obviously Fleming thus Obviously Bond!

If this is really how Bond treats his Girls I'm glad I'm a Lesbian.

[Simon]

While I agree and applaud free speech and positive criticism towards one's chosen subject of interest to retain a full sense of the appreciation, I am beginning to find it curious that so much time can be spent denegrating something that, 15+ years ago, might have been an interest. Certainly for Jim, there has been nothing to applaud in this subject during this time span.

Life is too short for all this hate and antagonism to be directed at something so meaningless as casual entertainment. I feel sure that one's energies could be better used towards something creative and positive, from which one may be able to derive more pleasure than the constant frustration he is getting from his appreciation on the current James Bond world.

This isn't a side swipe at telling him to clear off but I sometimes wish for a more balanced series of viewpoints that would convince me there is an existing interest, and reason, for his presence on these boards.

It is just all too negative, obvious knowledge, verbiage and intellect aside.

All the best.

[Loomis]

All the Bond films - even those of the series' so-called golden age - are riddled with plot holes, absurdities and goofs. Take YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE, for instance, with its sign reading "Beauty Parlour" in Japanese at what is supposed to be a venue for sumo wrestling; and, as glimpsed from a plane, its very English-looking Japanese countryside. And, er, lots of other very silly things as well, I should imagine (check the IMDB if interested).

If one were so minded, one could fill pages of text demolishing any Bond film (or any film, for that matter). However, DIE ANOTHER DAY has no pretentions to being high art or serious drama (unlike THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH), and your harsh criticisms, Jim, are beginning to conjure images of a flea being done to death by repeated blasts from an elephant gun.

Jim, presumably there was once a time when you enjoyed the Bond films as escapist entertainment, and didn't mind the lack of logic and plausibility? Or do you feel that the Bond flicks of yesteryear were truly more adult, stimulating and coherent than DIE ANOTHER DAY and the other Brosnan outings? Do you believe that there was an era of Bondage during which the general standard of acting was a lot better?

Or was it just that you were younger then? In which case, to echo Simon's point, what exactly is it that sustains your interest today?

All of my above Moore-like eyebrow-raising notwithstanding, a most entertaining cruxi----, uh, review, Jim. As one who was recently taken to task by another CBn regular for having the audacity to knock OCTOPUSSY, I would be the last person to suggest that any dissent, or even heresy to the Church of Broccoli should be punished. So, bring on the remaining letters of the alphabet!

[marktmurphy]

Agreed, its as if you were severely disappointed by the film which doesn't seem to be believable, as you've been knocking 'Bond: The Next Generation' for month, neigh years. I'm presuming this bizarre dissection of a throwaway film that you're not supposed to even remember after you've left the cinema is just being constructed to provoke discussion rather than to show your true feelings as you must be a very angry little person indeed if this is so.

And why this setting of Fleming's Bond as the ultimate? I find it to be the most juvenile, refusing to acknowledge the ridiculousness of the character and glorifying in 'killings' like the two cinema-going teenagers in The League Of Gentlemen. Let BrosnanBond kill the po-faced ar;se.

[Turn]

If anything, Jim goes into great detail on his points, so he deserves credit. If there's something I don't like on forums it's people bashing something with one sentence or so. And I'm picking up some interesting jargon (chebs, I'll be using that one to confound friends and co-workers soon).

I've got to agree on Arnold. When TND came out, the music stood out after the LTK and GE travesties drug those pictures down a notch for me. I listened to that soundtrack constantly. I was disappointed by TWINE's score.

As for DAD, I didn't even notice the music for most of the picture. I'm not sure that's entirely Arnold's fault, but it seems funny I was able to enjoy it on TND and not even notice it here. Jim's point on Barry's first three scoring projects is solid. Arnold seems to have hit a sophomore jinx on TWINE and it may have stuck with DAD. I will get the soundtrack and see DAD again and maybe I will prove myself wrong, but first impressions seem to lead me otherwise.

[Fiona]

Flemings Bond is the ultimate....Male chauvanist! (Did I spel that rite?)
*Giggles*
Seriously though I would like to think of myself as discriminating and discerning and do I really have to put up with something that over all is rubbish or poor quality just beacuse it has a label of a fantasy or Science Fiction or something or other?
I love Lost and Delirious and Lolita (Not the crappy Kubrick version) this doesn't stop me enjoying Spy, Thunderball or any of the others. No they have mistakes, some glaring and on occasion the acting was dreadful Claudine Auger springs easily to mind. They worked and worked well.
Lets accept the fact bond belongs in the past and enjoy the old stuff before they get overshadowed by flimsy efforts.
And I'm really sorry guys but that ending of DAD was just terrible and boring. Mebbe with a title Like "DAD" Bond should order his Cardigan now!!

[Jim]

F is for Frost, Miranda. The idea of a female agent is sound (do we ever establish that she's a 00? Not much point having a fencing expert as an agent if she isn't (patently a weak point)(patently an even weaker "point" pun)). Anyway, the execution...Ok, she's the traitor, but do we actually feel anything about the betrayal? She's not set up as someone Bond knows before his incarceration; wouldn't the betrayal have been more cutting had they (say) been lovers beforehand and still she betrayed him? I dunno; just think there's something missing here to make the character's impact more notable. And the bit at the end when BrosnanBond creaks down beside her prone body - well, there was a moment when it could have descended into necrophilia. Might have been worth watching. But it appears that this moment is designed for Bond to reflect on this person who betrayed him (who is killed by someone else's knife - the FYEO reference? Who knows?). Big problem though - way too much running and jumping and big bangs (fnarr) since the prison cell sequences for this idea to have any great significance any more. Could have been so much stronger. And I never thought I'd write this, but in Mr Benson's novelisation, this end bit is so much stronger. Fundamentally macabre, in fact. Won't spoil it for anyone who hasn't read it. (Sharp intake of breath) Raymond Benson's book is worth reading. I'll stop now before I get lightheaded and do something stupid like read the inevitable posts that followed the first tranche of this drivel.

F is also for Falco, Damian. Not sure why he's there. "Ugly American" idea is a bit passe, non? Fine, he's coming back next time...but give him something to do other than a rather tired snipy double act with the Dench (chalk up another snipy double act for the Dench).

F is also for Fantastic, Some People Thought This Was. Well, so be it.

F is also for Failure, Utter

[General Koskov]

Originally posted by Blue Eyes
And no one could go to Cuba or North Korea.

Why? I mean, sure N Korea wouldn't let them in because they bashed the country, but why not S Korea?

And Cuba would be so cheap to film in...or did Castro not like the strangely-familiar bearded man in Octopussy? I suppose it was the American MGM staying in the McCarthy sixties and they were going to blacklist Brosnan as a communist sympathiser if he went there.

PS. Why does socıalıst Cuba have a private health clinic? Or did Castro get brainwashed by Albertans when he went to Trudeau's funeral?

[Xenobia]

Jim....I love you. Unlike a Bond movie, you never disappoint.

For those concerned with Jim's review please keep in mind that

A) He is a fan of the literary Bond and thinks (I believe) Thunderball is the best Bond movie.

He is really Pierce Brosnan's make up man, and enjoys taking the piss out of his boss.

Mind you, one or both of the above could be bold face lies, or they might not.

Now, now. We mustn't pick on Jim....a lot of us have waited a long time to hear this review. ;-)

And Jim...the Weird sisters checked *very carefully.* There is no weight fluctuation, just better and worse lighting. ;-) (That too, might be a lie, but at least I go along with it to keep MBE happy.)

-- Xenobia

[Fiona]

Hey I'm with Jim. Thunderball is the best bond of all!
I was just upset about Frost's betrayal cause as always I picked a duffer or sacrficial lamb to pin my heart on!

[Loomis]

Originally posted by Xenobia

Leave Jim alone....a lot of us have waited a long time to hear this review.

Who has attacked Jim on this thread?

Indeed, it would seem that other CBners are leaving him alone to a perhaps surprising extent. I don't approve - as I've already tried to make clear - of roasting other people for holding certain opinions, but many other CBners, myself included, have on occasion been flamed into the middle of next week for even mildly negative criticism of DIE ANOTHER DAY.

Jim's review prompted me to ask him a couple of questions, which I feel are legitimate and worded perfectly civilly. He doesn't have to answer them, of course, but I don't see what's wrong with my asking them.

[Xenobia]

Hi Loomis:

"The leave Jim alone" bit was with tongue in cheek...you know light teasing. I'll add something there to make it more clear.

I haven't seen anyone flamed for their reviews....if you can point it out to me, I will deal with it.

Take care!

-- Xenobia

[Fiona]

Mmmm Roast me, Flame me! Pleeaaseee! *giggles*

[Loomis]

Originally posted by Xenobia
Hi Loomis:

"The leave Jim alone" bit was with tongue in cheek...you know light teasing.  I'll add something there to make it more clear.

I haven't seen anyone flamed for their reviews....if you can point it out to me, I will deal with it.

Take care!



-- Xenobia

Thanks, Xenobia. I remember quite a number of people flamed for their views on DIE ANOTHER DAY (not wishing it on Jim).

In particular, someone who went by the name raoul provided this site with one of the first reviews of the film - a very negative one, which earned him quite a bit of abuse from some CBn regulars.

There was also a recent thread telling dissenters to "stop their whingeing", started by someone who claimed that anyone who didn't like DAD was a moron, or a word to that effect.

Anyway, the atmosphere on this site seems to have become a little less heated of late, which is nice.

Jim, I agree particularly with: "F is for Frost, Miranda. The idea of a female agent is sound (do we ever establish that she's a 00? Not much point having a fencing expert as an agent if she isn't (patently a weak point)(patently an even weaker "point" pun)). Anyway, the execution...Ok, she's the traitor, but do we actually feel anything about the betrayal? She's not set up as someone Bond knows before his incarceration; wouldn't the betrayal have been more cutting had they (say) been lovers beforehand and still she betrayed him? I dunno; just think there's something missing here to make the character's impact more notable."

Roll on G to Z.

[Xenobia]

Loomis:

We are keeping an eye on things...if things get too nasty, we will step in. If there are any particular threads you want me to look at (for example the "STop Whining" one), I will.

Send me a pm about it.

-- Xenobia