654 replies to this topic

[Bryce (003)]

It has returned...

The thread that cannot, will not and should not ever die.

[freemo]

Welcome back, old friend.

Zencat, while you may no longer think DAD "The best Bond Movie ever?", is it still one of your best Bond Movie viewing experiences ever? How did CR and QOS compare with this night?

[DominicGreene]

Dear God, a thread made almost 10 years ago... I was only 7 when this post started!

[zencat]

Welcome back, old friend.

Zencat, while you may no longer think DAD "The best Bond Movie ever?", is it still one of your best Bond Movie viewing experiences ever? How did CR and QOS compare with this night?

You know, I was JUST thinking the other day that this DAD screening might have been the single best Bond screening experiences I've ever had (next to the TLD premiere). I don't know. Everything was clicking for me in 2002, and I was just in the right place to really enjoy myself and this film. And the entire audience seemed to be in that same right place as well.

CR was good too, but that's so much more of a drama, the audience was just into sitting quietly and watching it (as was I). Certainly the only Bond movie viewing experience where you could hear people crying.

Oh, people cried during QOS too. For entirely different reasons.

[stromberg]

Welcome back, old friend.

Zencat, while you may no longer think DAD "The best Bond Movie ever?", is it still one of your best Bond Movie viewing experiences ever? How did CR and QOS compare with this night?

You know, I was JUST thinking the other day that this DAD screening might have been the single best Bond screening experiences I've ever had (next to the TLD premiere). I don't know. Everything was clicking for me in 2002, and I was just in the right place to really enjoy myself and this film. And the entire audience seemed to be in that same right place as well.

CR was good too, but that's so much more of a drama, the audience was just into sitting quietly and watching it (as was I). Certainly the only Bond movie viewing experience where you could hear people crying.

Oh, people cried during QOS too. For entirely different reasons.

Oh, I was close to crying on my first DAD screening, too. But I definitely sank deeper and deeper into my seat and covered my eyes, sveral times...

[Skudor]

I think every forum pestering Bond fan should read reviews that are opposed to their own views from time to time - it's a great reminder of the fact that no matter how awful we might thing some of the films, they are not irredemable (and frankly we need to get over ourselves a little bit sometimes).

That's why I love this thread and Zencat's enthusiastic review of DAD.

[DaveBond21]

I agree.

I always love this thread.

[univex]

I agree.

I always love this thread.

True, I love this thread. Hate DAD though. Always have. I feel embarassed by it and I would in no measure whatsoever be a Bond film fan if it was the only film in the cannon. I just hate it with a vengeance, although I´m a Brosnan fan and I like some tiny bits of the film, such as some of the blades scenes, some of the Havana scenes, and some of the M briefing in the underground, I just hate the rest of it. It´s an excuse of a film. A crappy cgi fest with fowny sets and plastic performances, stupid lines, ... I´m sorry, I just hate it! I dislike DAF, YOLT and MR (although they have their moments), but DAD...I hate it. And in 2002 I really needed a stellar Bond film to help cope with life at the time, and I didn´t got it at all. So, it was personal

[Shamelord]

A couple of bad CGI scenes and a couple of bad puns don't necessarily ruin a movie.

DAD has manay qualities, including the Best Brosnan action scene ever (fencing anyone?)
The story works and the majectic and balletic Aston / Jaguar moves are a sight to behold.

Hating DAD is a question of throwing the baby with the bathwater IMHO.

[jaguar007]

but DAD...I hate it. And in 2002 I really needed a stellar Bond film to help cope with life at the time, and I didn´t got it at all. So, it was personal

Well you should take it personally! EON deliberately set out to make a bad Bond movie specifically to piss you off. Too bad rest of us had to suffer as well (I say this jokingly)

[univex]

but DAD...I hate it. And in 2002 I really needed a stellar Bond film to help cope with life at the time, and I didn´t got it at all. So, it was personal

Well you should take it personally! EON deliberately set out to make a bad Bond movie specifically to piss you off. Too bad rest of us had to suffer as well (I say this jokingly)

Bloody fools didn´t respect me at all Utter lack of consideration for me and me alone. Sorry guys, my bad, they won´t do it again, I´ve sent a bottle of Dom to Barbara and we´re all good now. They won´t trow a DAD on me again

A couple of bad CGI scenes and a couple of bad puns don't necessarily ruin a movie.

DAD has manay qualities, including the Best Brosnan action scene ever (fencing anyone?)
The story works and the majectic and balletic Aston / Jaguar moves are a sight to behold.

Hating DAD is a question of throwing the baby with the bathwater IMHO.

A couple of bad CGI scenes and a couple of bad puns make a Steven Seagal film.

Brosnan looked obstipated in the fencing scene, and Madonna?!
The story works? Really? And the ice chase? With all the ramping?
If they threw everything at it, including the kitchen sink, why not the baby with the bathwater?

DAD is just an awful, plastic, cheasy, ott excuse of a Bond film. IMO of course

[Double-0-7]

Oh thank God, some kind soul resurrected my all-time favorite CBn post. I enjoyed this story of friends enjoying a Bond film so much I just had to meet Zencat and Bryce in person. They are both great guys and live up to their screen personas quite well.

THANK YOU FOR THIS EARLY CHRISTMAS PRESENT!

[univex]

Oh thank God, some kind soul resurrected my all-time favorite CBn post. I enjoyed this story of friends enjoying a Bond film so much I just had to meet Zencat and Bryce in person. They are both great guys and live up to their screen personas quite well.

THANK YOU FOR THIS EARLY CHRISTMAS PRESENT!

It is an all-time favourite isn´t it? It reminds me of how nice Cbn and all the members were at the beginning of it all. Not that they´re not nice nowadays, but it isn´t exactly the same "friends enjoying Bond films" as it used to be. That being said, I love to hate DAD, it´s just...fun It is the only film we all agree to disagree, because we all understand people loving it and people hating it. All good fun

Edited by univex, 05 December 2011 - 02:54 AM.

[Shamelord]

A couple of bad CGI scenes and a couple of bad puns make a Steven Seagal film.

Only a COUPLE of bad CGI scenes ? Only a COUPLE of bad puns ?
Are we talking about the same non-acting Steven Segal?

As you said, as long as all of this remains in good fun.

[univex]

A couple of bad CGI scenes and a couple of bad puns make a Steven Seagal film.

Only a COUPLE of bad CGI scenes ? Only a COUPLE of bad puns ?
Are we talking about the same non-acting Steven Segal?

As you said, as long as all of this remains in good fun.

I´ll refrase it: LOADS of bad puns and MANY awful cgi scenes, including an invisible car, a MASSIVE freakin titlewave and a GARGANTUOUS Antonov plane. And frankly, if Seagal replaced Brosnan in many scenes in DAD we wouldn´t tell the difference, especially if Michael Madsen was in them as well. Pierce looked like he had a full stomack and was tucking in his gut and speaking with marbles in his mouth. Hell-berry had her best swordfish acting going on. The guy from that Fast and Furious crap was a walking robot with make up to go with it, Toby had a stick up is ***, the sets looked all like, well...sets, VR training? really? That sonic ringer was made for a gigolo, speed ramping is not cinema, it´s mtv videoclip bull****, Miranda Frost...frost, really? to go with the ice theme? Lame!, Madonna theme, nuff said, MI6 agents surfing like Laird Hamilton, ..., must I go on, I´m getting a bit nauseous just thinking about DAD...

See? I love to hate DAD
All good fun

[Miles Miservy]

THE BEST JAMES BOND MOVIE EVER?
A review of DIE ANOTHER DAY
By John Cox aka zencat

Halfway through DIE ANOTHER DAY, as Bond is traveling into Iceland, I turned to my companion sitting beside me in the Director's Hall of The Bridge Theater--our very own Bryce (more on the amazing evening Bryce organized here)--and I asked him in all seriousness, "Is it possible we are watching the BEST James Bond movie EVER?"

Better than FRWL? Better than Goldfinger? Better than OHMSS? Better than TSWLM?

Is it possible for #20 to be #1?


I held my breath for the rest of the movie as scene after scene worked a Bond magic I haven’t felt in years. I got a little nervous when I felt the narrative getting overwhelmed by the action in Iceland, and yes, it went a bit OTT with the much maligned CGI stunt (but it wasn’t that bad, relax). Then that amazing climax kicked in and I'm breathless again. Then the Moneypenny beat at the end hits like an unexpected grand slam home run and when DIE ANOTHER DAY is over I’m sitting in my seat absolutely stunned. I decide then and there it was, indeed, the BEST James Bond movie I had ever seen!!

After the movie, I, and 55 other formally attired Bond fans, recovered from the experience over pints of Guinness and fish and chips at an English pub (the whole place reserved for us and all was on the house, thank you again Bryce!). I decided maybe DAD wasn't the "best" Bond film of them all -- but it was damn close! And it's very possible when I see it again (which I MUST do ASAP) I'll come out saying it is indeed #1.

Yes, I liked this movie that much!

Okay, breathe, breathe… For those of you interested, I’m going to briefly bullet point my thoughts and reactions to the major sections and elements of the movie. Here we go.

Pre-titles: A surprise here. Despite was what others have been saying, I thought the pre-titles was nothing special. I feared a re-hash of the TND pre-titles, and it was. I also didn’t care for that washed-out overly saturated look the DP gave the whole sequence. Bond movies are not supposed to look that way. Stop trying so hard, I thought. But then there was something about Bond hanging on the bell after the hovercraft goes over the waterfall that made me sit up and say, hmmm, nice Bond moment there. Then…

Titles: Amazing, breathtaking, inventive, interesting, incredible! Even the Madonna song with that annoying audio drop out couldn’t ruin it. Here I realized DAD was boldly experimenting with the formula without betraying it. This was Bond, but not the same old Bond and it worked beautifully. Oh, Scorpion Girl…I love you, you little savage cutie-pie.

Bearded Bond/Hong Kong stuff: This was so bold, so unexpected, so unBond, and so overtly dramatic, I should have hated it. But I didn’t. I loved it. Loved it! Bond goes into cardiac arrest and dies on the table? I was stunned. The audience was stunned. The movie had us all by the throats. We’re not just watching a great Bond movie here—we’re watching a great movie, period. Amazing. And then Bond walks into the Hong Kong hotel in his ragged condition but still with full Bond aplomb and, hey, this movie is working!

Cuba: Okay, for everyone who says Dalton was the book Bond...no, you’re wrong. Pierce is the book Bond here, Pierce is Connery’s Bond here, Pierce IS James Bond here! This is the best part of the film, in my opinion. Classic Bond. I love, LOVE, that Bond and Jinx hit the sheets right off the bat. Of course this is how it should be. I realized I’ve gotten very tired with the Bond-has-sex-with-the-main-girl only-at-the-end formula. I think it works much better that Bond and the main girl START their relationship with pure, animal lust, then arc to respect one another. It’s Bond and Tracy. Sex first...love later. Nice.

London calling: All the London stuff is fabulous. I loved the Blades swordfight, classic Bond and villain duel turned up to the maximum. (Re Madonna’s cameo--can someone say, “Vaseline on the lens.” How vain. Madonna has become Barbara Walters.) I wish I didn’t know about the VR training sequence because that would have blown me out of my socks (curse the internet!). John Cleese IS Q. ‘Nuff said. And the invisible Vanquish...yes, yes! It’s about time we got more than rockets behind headlights. (Shame we didn’t see Bond’s flat in all this.)

Iceland: Don’t get me wrong, I love the location, the ice palace, the Icarus demonstration, the dragster, Miranda, etc...but I did feel the wall-to-wall action in this part of the film started overwhelming what up until then had been a very clean narrative. Jinx is captured and saved twice in the same location? Overkill. Seemed like a hard choice should have been made here and a major set-piece should have been sacrificed to lighten the load on the storyline (and the audience). In my opinion, the big glacier surfing stunt could have been lost, cool as it was. My objection to this scene wasn’t with the cheesy CGI, it’s with the fact that it was SO big it played like a sequence ending climax and took away from the ice ballet car chase that followed. The audience was exhausted. But the ice ballet was so well done that it still worked beautifully and Bond saving Jinx brought the narrative back to emotional clarity. Still, I got a bit lost amid all the action in Iceland, but this is my ONLY complaint.

Climactic battle: Awesome, incredible, one of the most exciting Bond climaxes ever filmed! I love the Icarus satellite burning it’s way through Korea as the plane disintegrates. Loved that Miranda took the time during all this chaos to change into that sexy fencing outfit for her battle with Jinx. Miranda’s death was a bit shocking, but effective. And Graves died the way a Bond villain should die—big! The audience cheered.

Then there was the final Moneypenny scene that had the audience almost on their feet with cheers and laughs and, yes, DAD in my mind at that moment was the BEST JAMES BOND MOVIE EVER!

Now to address a few of the elements of controversy I had heard before going in.

DAD goes OTT with the sci-fi element: What? How? I think DAD did what all the “spectacular” Bond films do and that’s bring it right to the line without crossing it. Nothing in DAD is impossible—it’s improbable, yes, but it’s not impossible and that’s the Cubby Broccoli edict. No probs. I welcome the return the BIG fun Bond film, and DAD is certainly that.

Halle Berry/Jinx: Come on, she was awesome! Like it or not, Halle Berry as Jinx enters the pantheon of great Bond girls. She was also flippin' hot! It's been a long time since I�ve had a sexual fantasy about a Bond Girl and, well, Jinx delivered.

Gunbarrel CGI bullet: What's the big deal? It's fine. I like it.

Too much CGI: Nah, it was fine. Even the much-maligned glacier surfing stunt didn’t bother me. Hey, I didn’t let the Tarzan yell ruin Octopussy, I’m not going to let one bad special effect ruin DAD. I’m there to have fun, and I did. So should you.

Congrats Eon, MGM, and everyone involved with DIE ANOTHER DAY. Even if—when I come down from my high—I decide it’s not the best James Bond movie of them all, it’s still the best Bond movie in over a decade and one that reinvigorates the series and that’s an amazing accomplishment.

Complete "KITCHEN - SINK" movie!!!
Too much of EVERYTHING and nothing is very memorable. Gustav Graves is as flat & two dimentional as Kamal Khan.
Even every great painter knows that once you've added too many colors, eventually all you have is... brown.

Edited by Miles Miservy, 05 December 2011 - 05:18 PM.

[Jim]

It's sweet, innit? Total waste of one's enthusiasm, but the enthusiasm itself cannot be argued with. Such innocent days, 2002. How happy were once were, the summers seemed longer, the meadows so much more replete with flowers, how we chased each other through sun-dappled orchards and our grins outshone the sun.

Then we had to watch Die Another Day and everything went to cack.

[Dustin]

2002?

Is that already past?

Phew, how time flies when one's having so much fun.

Edited by Dustin, 05 December 2011 - 05:53 PM.

[Professor Dent]

HA! I always love it when this thread resurfaces.

[univex]

It's sweet, innit? Total waste of one's enthusiasm, but the enthusiasm itself cannot be argued with. Such innocent days, 2002. How happy were once were, the summers seemed longer, the meadows so much more replete with flowers, how we chased each other through sun-dappled orchards and our grins outshone the sun.

Then we had to watch Die Another Day and everything went to cack.

I love you.

Seriously now, you´re right. You know it, I know it, we all know it. DAD is a load of cack

[Safari Suit]

A couple of bad CGI scenes and a couple of bad puns make a Steven Seagal film.

Only a COUPLE of bad CGI scenes ? Only a COUPLE of bad puns ?
Are we talking about the same non-acting Steven Segal?

Acting or non, his films aren't known for featuring much in the way of CGI. Or puns really. Seems like a strange choice of reference, but I've enjoyed a few of his films, and I've enjoyed DAD once or twice too.

[DR76]

Oh, I was close to crying on my first DAD screening, too. But I definitely sank deeper and deeper into my seat and covered my eyes, sveral times...

Sounds like my family's reaction while watching "GOLDFINGER".

[00Twelve]

Just having watched TWINE, I can earnestly and easily say that DAD beats it (to death). It's so, so cringeworthy, but it has some style and flair. At least there's the "spot the homage" drinking game that kills the boredom. Only drinking game in TWINE is "spot the over-acting."

[univex]

Just having watched TWINE, I can earnestly and easily say that DAD beats it (to death). It's so, so cringeworthy, but it has some style and flair. At least there's the "spot the homage" drinking game that kills the boredom. Only drinking game in TWINE is "spot the over-acting."

None is a good example of what a Bond film should be. But at least TWINE tried (and failed) to be something different, and not a pastiche of cringeworthy homages and ott effects.

[DaveBond21]

I coughed and this thread appeared. Sorry folks.

[00 Brosnan]

Die Another Day isn't even close to the best Bond film in my opinion, but I do find it to be highly entertaining, pure over-the-top Bond.

The CGI work can be awfully painful to watch at times and equally as bad is Halle Berry's character "Jinx." The character was either poorly written, poorly cast, or both I don't know. I don't particularly like the ending either, it just gets weird and sort of cheesy once Bond and Jinx are on the plane.

The action sequences in this film however are pretty exciting. The PTS hovercraft chase, the Aston Martion/Jaguar Iceland chase, and the sword fight between Graves and Bond really help the film. I liked the chemistry between Brosnan's Bond and John Cleese's Q too, nothing spectacular, but some decent humor.

Brosnan himself seems as confident as ever in the role, though they could have toned down the one-liners a little bit. Zao is one of the more interesting Brosnan-era villains and thought he should have taken center stage over Graves, who I found to come off more as a mad-geek than menacing villain.

Die Another day as mentioned has some big faults, but it also has some big things going for it. It's a pretty good Bond film until the last half-hour. I'd rank it above DAF, QoS, AVTAK, LTK, & TWINE for sure.

[Ren]

I always felt the first half of DAD was excellenct (until Q-scene) but with the scenes in Island it all went downhill...

[00 Brosnan]

I always felt the first half of DAD was excellenct (until Q-scene) but with the scenes in Island it all went downhill...

I think it's pretty good up until Bond leaves Iceland, then it gets really very bad. The Iceland sequences aren't scenes of brilliance, nor is the dialogue, but the whole Vanquish/Jaguar chase from the beginning until the car shoots out the side of the ice palace is great. I especially love the roar of the Aston Martin.

[Bill]

I had not had time to read all the posts here, but let me say this--DAD is, I think, Brosnan's best Bond film. He is on top of his game as 007, and he has a truly great supporting cast. An Oscar winning Bond girl, a sexy ice queen as the bad girl, an Odd Job like henchman, and two versions of a great Bond villain. The Bond family are all present and correct--Pierce is terrific with John Cleese, and it is a shame we did not have another big screen outing for both of them. Judi Dench, Samantha Bond and Colin Salmon are all excellent.

The villain's scheme is truly Bondian in the tradition of Blofeld, Drax and Goldfinger--and while it is very similar to DAF, who cares? The Aston Martin is beautiful, and while an invisible car is a bit far fetched--I just saw The Avengers this weekend, and no one batted an eye when the SHIELD air carrier used the same principle as the Aston Martin. While the para sailing may be a
bit too much CGI, Arnold's use of the Bond theme more then makes up for that.

The film feels like an anniversary film, as there are tributes to every previous film in there--some subtle, some more overt. David Arnold is particularly adept at weaving in some of Barry's themes--just listen to the YOLT strings toward the end of the film.

DAD is the last time I had fun with a Bond film. Reboot aside, Casino Royale is a good film, but it is certainly not fun. Some would argue that Bond some films are not meant to be fun, but all of the twenty films from 1962 to 2002 feature many elements that are just that--even Licence To Kill has Desmond Llewelyn offering his greatest appearance as Q, offering a welcome respite from the dark revenge tail.

I think Craig is a fine actor, and good as the Bond that is written for him, but he is not fun. While CR is good, QoS is the worst film in the series, and a recent posting on a related Facebook page pointed me to an article wherein Marc Foster's left wing agenda was deliberately injected into the film. That is so wrong for Bond on so many levels. Now I only sat through it once all the way through, but the only remotely fun part of the film that I recall is when M asks Bond to try to not to kill so many people--and given its context, one had to chuckle. However, where is the restraint that inherent in Bond's statement to Scaramanga that the only time he killls it is on the specific orders of his government, and those he kills are themselves killers? Nowhere in the Craig outings.

2012 is the 50th anniversary--for the entire series--not just 2006 on. I really hope that EON keeps that in mind and gives us a film that will truly celebrate this historic milestone. We do not deserve a Bond film whose protagonist does little to remind us what being Bond is all about. We do not deserve a Bond who sometimes appears to be a Bond in name only.

We deserve a TRUE James Bond film, far more like Die Another Day then Quantum of Solace, living up the legacy of Cubby Broccoli and Harry Saltzman. We want to celebrate, and celebrations are meant to be fun. Let's hope we get that.

[AMC Hornet]

Glad to see I'm not alone (yet).

I loved DAD from premiere night on, and never let the nay-sayers influence me.

I know what I like in Bond films, and I can appreciate both the "realism" of FRWL, OHMSS, FYEO and CR, the spectacle of GF, TB, TLD and TND, and the OTT fun of YOLT, TSWLM, OP and DAD. I even appreciate the low-budget efforts like DN, DAF, LALD and TMWTGG - as long as it's Bond!

DAF was the first 007 film I ever saw, and I grew up on Guy Hamilton & Tom Mankewicz, so it's no wonder I enjoyed DAD. I'm only sorry Pierce didn't get to do one more before BB & MGW decided they had to reboot (there was certainly time for it - just not enough money for Pierce's salary).

DAD lovers unite! There are more of us than the flamers realize (though probably not enough for us to take them all down)!

Here's hoping Skyfall is spectacular fun - it's past time to bring that element of the film Bond back.

Edited by AMC Hornet, 30 May 2012 - 04:45 AM.