112 replies to this topic

[Tiin007]

The existence of a thread like this is proof that EON has gone overboard with trying to stuff the films full of references to the previous films.  Strangely, those films shouldn't even exist in the timeline that the Craig films are supposedly operating in. 

 

This is a fundamental problem with the films under the current EON regime that needs to be corrected for the long-term health of the franchise.  Eventually they're going to have to come up with new iconic moments for later films to reference, otherwise Bond is going to turn into one of those oldies bands that just tours playing their old hits and never offers up anything new.  We're getting dangerously close to that territory now, which is rather sad considering we're only four films into this supposed "reboot".

 

Agreed 100%.

 

That was my biggest pet peeve when it comes to QoS and Skyfall, although-- in my humble opinion-- SPECTRE has thankfully toned down the references at least somewhat. The references in SPECTRE are not nearly as overt as, say, Fields covered in oil, or Bond's line to Q: "You must be joking."

 

Only really offensive reference in SPECTRE was the return of the DB5 which, oddly enough, made its already-bothersome inclusion in Skyfall even worse by negating the plot point and symbolism behind the car's destruction. Oh well.

 

To be honest, as much as I love the DB5's appearances in GF and TB, and I can at least tolerate it in GE and CR, I'd be more than happy to never see the car in a Bond film ever again. It is really too much at this point.

[tdalton]

I've never been too upset with the GF reference in QOS. Mostly because it leads to the terrific dressing down of Bond by M for how he uses the women around him. Also the fact that they don't dwell on the body, as its mostly out of focus or we only get quick shots of it rather than lingering too much on it.

Had they just used it as a quick gag, it would have been bad, but the way it ties into the story (and sets Craig up for the moment with Greene in the desert) makes it worthwhile. Its a much better reference than the nonsense about not going in for exploding pens anymore and throwaway lines like that.

[Tiin007]

You make a valid point there, tdalton. 

 

Also, the "we don't go in for that anymore" regarding the pens sort of backed them into a corner, as it almost precludes them from ever using such a gadget in the future. Funny how they brought back the exploding watch and gadget-laden car in the very next film. 

[DaveBond21]

You make a valid point there, tdalton. 

 

Also, the "we don't go in for that anymore" regarding the pens sort of backed them into a corner, as it almost precludes them from ever using such a gadget in the future. Funny how they brought back the exploding watch and gadget-laden car in the very next film. 

 

I think they realise that most of us really like the odd gadget or two!

[S K Y F A L L]

Anyone remember what the painting was in M's office?

I can't recall but noticed it was not the same as in SF of the old MI6 building. Not sure if that is a reference though. 

[Guy Haines]

Well, this is chock bang full of references to previous Bond films, but aside from the loose use of a character from Octopussy - Oberhauser, or rather his son - I'd like to add another nod to another book, namely Thunderball.

When Blofeld is introduced in the book, in the chapter entitled "Spectre", we learn that he got started in crime by copying cyphers and selling information to foreign powers. "Knowledge of the truth before the next man is was the key to all great reputations" we are told in Ian Fleming's mini-biography of Blofeld which takes up much of that chapter.

Fast forward to 2015 and SPECTRE, and Madeleine asks the man soon to be revealed as Blofeld what his HQ is all about. "Information. Information is everything".

"Knowledge of the truth before the next man....?" He might just as well have said it, because on reflection that's what it made me think of. The Blofeld of the books profited out of knowing secrets - this new Blofeld is, in his own hi-tech way, doing exactly the same.

[Professor Pi]

Also, in the titles sequence SPECTRE has clips from other Bond movies, just like On Her Majesty's Secret Service.

 

If P&W are self-professed "steeped in Fleming", how did they miss that "Knowledge before the next man" line?!

 

This thread has better explanations of DAF references than the article does.  Still not sold on AVTAK and DAD (although the idea of referencing it via emulating how it references other Bonds is very "meta").

 

Much of it is lazy script-writing.  The other thing it does is take away from actual suspense in a scene.  "Oh this is like GoldenEye, he'll pull out."  "Oh, here's the train in From Russia With Love."  We've seen it before and they're reminding us of that.  Even SPECTRE's glorified PTS combines LTK's assassination AND elevator AND aerial takeover, FYEO's helicopter, LALD visiuals. 

 

I wonder when someone will remake SPECTRE on Youtube using just these scenes from other Bond films ...

[DaveBond21]

Another one. During the PTS, when the helicopter starts to rise and rise, and almost stalls it reminds me of the plane and the helicopter at the end of Die Another Day, and also of the plane in QOS. Plus when it does the loop the loop, it reminds me of TMWTGG and there is even a little musical cue from Thomas Newman. Not a slide whistle but he uses a special sound to indicate the roll.

[Guy Haines]

Also, in the titles sequence SPECTRE has clips from other Bond movies, just like On Her Majesty's Secret Service.
 
If P&W are self-professed "steeped in Fleming", how did they miss that "Knowledge before the next man" line?!
 
This thread has better explanations of DAF references than the article does.  Still not sold on AVTAK and DAD (although the idea of referencing it via emulating how it references other Bonds is very "meta").
 
Much of it is lazy script-writing.  The other thing it does is take away from actual suspense in a scene.  "Oh this is like GoldenEye, he'll pull out."  "Oh, here's the train in From Russia With Love."  We've seen it before and they're reminding us of that.  Even SPECTRE's glorified PTS combines LTK's assassination AND elevator AND aerial takeover, FYEO's helicopter, LALD visiuals. 
 
I wonder when someone will remake SPECTRE on Youtube using just these scenes from other Bond films ...

Interesting that P & W missed that line from the novel Thunderball, when you consider that they used a chapter from Colonel Sun - "The Theory and Practice of Torture" - as the basis of the torture scene in SPECTRE, right down to Blofeld's remarks about that man losing his eyes and no longer being there. Instead of raiding the films there are still little bits of Fleming source material that could be used. In this movie though, in the "Bond becomes Bond" arc we've seen Daniel Craig travel on since 2006 we've reached the "Bond becomes classic Bond" stage, hence the many references back to previous films. Which is fine provided you don't go in to see the movie determined to "spot the knowing nod". Best to just let them wash over you as you enjoy the film in the round.

[Professor Pi]

If you think about it, they've been throwing out callbacks to other Bond movies since Die Another Day.  It's like they never got it out of their system.  I always thought that The Spy Who Loved Me nods in QoS seemed out of place.  I was okay with CR giving us a nod to Goldfinger, if just to remind the audience that it was still a Bond film, but then they do nods to Goldfinger in each of the three succeeding movies too. 

 

I didn't think about the nods solidifying CraigBond's growth into the fully formed Bond character...that's interesting.  But Mendes sure does like to incorporate other Bond films into his.  I think he knew it'd be his last and wanted to do everything he wanted so he'd have no regrets.

[DaveBond21]

We also had the double duel again which we saw in both Die Another Day and in Quantum of Solace, where there are 2 fights going on at once. We had that again with Bond and Blofeld plus M vs Denbigh.

[PrinceKamalKhan]

Even SPECTRE's glorified PTS combines LTK's assassination AND elevator AND aerial takeover, FYEO's helicopter, LALD visiuals. 

 

Don't forget the parade scenes from TB and MR.

[glidrose]

Bond's final line in Spectre was supposed to have been "We have all the time in the world."

[Walecs]

Bond's final line in Spectre was supposed to have been "We have all the time in the world."

 

Too bad it was removed.

[Guy Haines]

A pity, but too obvious for the fans, and even the more knowledgeable film reviewers. SP's ending has been left, to some extent ambiguous. For the film's final line to have been "we have all the time in the world" would have been a big heavy hint as to what to expect in the next film, and maybe the producers and screenwriters didn't want to be committed to a future movie in which Madeleine's fate mimicked Tracy's. As it is many fans and audience members might be expecting Madeleine Swann to go the same route as Teresa Di Vicenzo, but who knows? Perhaps a Bond/Blofeld conflict with a more original and unexpected fate for Madeleine might occur - or she will go her own way and as more often than not Bond will once more find himself a man alone. 

[PrinceKamalKhan]

Bond's final line in Spectre was supposed to have been "We have all the time in the world."

 

I'm glad they did not include that. That one belongs to Tracy and OHMSS and should only be used to reference her(like in the FYEO PTS).

 

 

A pity, but too obvious for the fans, and even the more knowledgeable film reviewers. SP's ending has been left, to some extent ambiguous. For the film's final line to have been "we have all the time in the world" would have been a big heavy hint as to what to expect in the next film, and maybe the producers and screenwriters didn't want to be committed to a future movie in which Madeleine's fate mimicked Tracy's. As it is many fans and audience members might be expecting Madeleine Swann to go the same route as Teresa Di Vicenzo, but who knows? Perhaps a Bond/Blofeld conflict with a more original and unexpected fate for Madeleine might occur - or she will go her own way and as more often than not Bond will once more find himself a man alone. 

 

I'm glad they left SP's ending as ambiguous(did Bond resign MI6 to be with Madeleine or is he just going on leave to spend some time with her?) as they did. I'd be perfectly OK if her fate turns out like Kara Milovy's, Domino Derval's, Tatiana Romanova's, Kissy Suzuki's and the majority of her lead Bond heroine predecessors, i.e., left up to our imagination. But the second Bond/Blofeld confrontation needs to happen regardless of how or if they resolve Madeleine's story.

[DaveBond21]

 

Bond's final line in Spectre was supposed to have been "We have all the time in the world."

 

I'm glad they did not include that. That one belongs to Tracy and OHMSS and should only be used to reference her(like in the FYEO PTS).

 

 

A pity, but too obvious for the fans, and even the more knowledgeable film reviewers. SP's ending has been left, to some extent ambiguous. For the film's final line to have been "we have all the time in the world" would have been a big heavy hint as to what to expect in the next film, and maybe the producers and screenwriters didn't want to be committed to a future movie in which Madeleine's fate mimicked Tracy's. As it is many fans and audience members might be expecting Madeleine Swann to go the same route as Teresa Di Vicenzo, but who knows? Perhaps a Bond/Blofeld conflict with a more original and unexpected fate for Madeleine might occur - or she will go her own way and as more often than not Bond will once more find himself a man alone. 

 

I'm glad they left SP's ending as ambiguous(did Bond resign MI6 to be with Madeleine or is he just going on leave to spend some time with her?) as they did. I'd be perfectly OK if her fate turns out like Kara Milovy's, Domino Derval's, Tatiana Romanova's, Kissy Suzuki's and the majority of her lead Bond heroine predecessors, i.e., left up to our imagination. But the second Bond/Blofeld confrontation needs to happen regardless of how or if they resolve Madeleine's story.

 

 

Yes, I agree with this. There is no need for Swann to return and of course it would depend entirely on Lea Seydoux's availability.

[Guy Haines]

Actually - I wonder if there's any need for Blofeld to return? If neither Christoph Waltz or Lea Seydoux are available it might make a direct follow up a bit tricky with new actors in both roles, especially as, up until now, the Craig films have been notable for their casting continuity. Blofeld played by A N Other in Bond 25 they could just about get away with - plastic surgery and so on. But Madeleine as well? It would be like one of those daytime soaps with one character played by one actor for one season and someone else in the next.

If neither Waltz nor Seydoux can commit we might have a storyline in which Bond has parted from Madeleine, Blofeld has been locked away and forgotten about - for now - and Bond faces a new opponent unconnected to SPECTRE. This would not, of course, preclude that organisation and its head returning in future, by which time a new actor as Blofeld would be facing a new man as Bond.

[Vauxhall]

I pretty much agree with that. If they can't get Waltz or Seydoux then they should just persevere without the characters rather than recast them. 

[DaveBond21]

True. Presumably SPECTRE still functions without its leader however? They start meetings without him.

[Dustin]

How about BOND 25 would be set several years after SPECTRE? With neither Blofeld nor Madeleine turning up and whatever happened to them in the meantime isn't explained? Or only hinted at, not spelled out?

[DaveBond21]

How about BOND 25 would be set several years after SPECTRE? With neither Blofeld nor Madeleine turning up and whatever happened to them in the meantime isn't explained? Or only hinted at, not spelled out?

 

That is fine with me. Daniel Craig is going to be 50 when it comes out. Maybe he will be looking older?

[Tiin007]

 

How about BOND 25 would be set several years after SPECTRE? With neither Blofeld nor Madeleine turning up and whatever happened to them in the meantime isn't explained? Or only hinted at, not spelled out?

 

That is fine with me. Daniel Craig is going to be 50 when it comes out. Maybe he will be looking older?

 

 

Aside from the Madeline / Blofeld thread, an additional component to be considered is the current state of British Intelligence in Bond 25. SPECTRE essentially continued the plotline from Skyfall, bringing MI6 into the 21st century by disbanding the 00-program and merging MI5 and MI6.

 

Were any of this to be undone, I would like to see it addressed in the new movie. I'd personally rather it be a major component of the plot, but I'd be more than happy with a passing reference.

 

As Denbigh and his Nine Eyes program have bit the dust, I'd like the CNS building converted for use by MI6, essentially acting as a replacement for the old Vauxhall Cross building.

 

But we cannot just return to "business as usual" until this is sorted out. Continuity is key here.

[Matt_13]

There won't be "business as usual" until the next Bond is cast. Which is totally fine by me.

[DaveBond21]

There won't be "business as usual" until the next Bond is cast. Which is totally fine by me.

 

 

When a new Bond actor is cast, the plot will be "And this time it's personal...!". And whoever is directing will announce "Bond is not on a normal mission this time. This time he has to go rogue and avenge the death of....

[Surrie]

 

Bond's final line in Spectre was supposed to have been "We have all the time in the world."

 

I'm glad they did not include that. That one belongs to Tracy and OHMSS and should only be used to reference her(like in the FYEO PTS).

 

 

A pity, but too obvious for the fans, and even the more knowledgeable film reviewers. SP's ending has been left, to some extent ambiguous. For the film's final line to have been "we have all the time in the world" would have been a big heavy hint as to what to expect in the next film, and maybe the producers and screenwriters didn't want to be committed to a future movie in which Madeleine's fate mimicked Tracy's. As it is many fans and audience members might be expecting Madeleine Swann to go the same route as Teresa Di Vicenzo, but who knows? Perhaps a Bond/Blofeld conflict with a more original and unexpected fate for Madeleine might occur - or she will go her own way and as more often than not Bond will once more find himself a man alone. 

 

I'm glad they left SP's ending as ambiguous(did Bond resign MI6 to be with Madeleine or is he just going on leave to spend some time with her?) as they did. I'd be perfectly OK if her fate turns out like Kara Milovy's, Domino Derval's, Tatiana Romanova's, Kissy Suzuki's and the majority of her lead Bond heroine predecessors, i.e., left up to our imagination. But the second Bond/Blofeld confrontation needs to happen regardless of how or if they resolve Madeleine's story.

 

 

The ambiguous ending was reminiscent of past Bond films, and something I missed actually. I feel as though Madeleine's future should be left up to our imagination - this mould should only be broken if they can secure Lea Seydoux again and really work with an excellent storyline for her that is fresh and not repetitive - one that ties in with an old school Bond/Blofeld showdown. Now, that would be my preferred ending to Craig's tenure as Bond. 

[DaveBond21]

 

 

Bond's final line in Spectre was supposed to have been "We have all the time in the world."

 

I'm glad they did not include that. That one belongs to Tracy and OHMSS and should only be used to reference her(like in the FYEO PTS).

 

 

A pity, but too obvious for the fans, and even the more knowledgeable film reviewers. SP's ending has been left, to some extent ambiguous. For the film's final line to have been "we have all the time in the world" would have been a big heavy hint as to what to expect in the next film, and maybe the producers and screenwriters didn't want to be committed to a future movie in which Madeleine's fate mimicked Tracy's. As it is many fans and audience members might be expecting Madeleine Swann to go the same route as Teresa Di Vicenzo, but who knows? Perhaps a Bond/Blofeld conflict with a more original and unexpected fate for Madeleine might occur - or she will go her own way and as more often than not Bond will once more find himself a man alone. 

 

I'm glad they left SP's ending as ambiguous(did Bond resign MI6 to be with Madeleine or is he just going on leave to spend some time with her?) as they did. I'd be perfectly OK if her fate turns out like Kara Milovy's, Domino Derval's, Tatiana Romanova's, Kissy Suzuki's and the majority of her lead Bond heroine predecessors, i.e., left up to our imagination. But the second Bond/Blofeld confrontation needs to happen regardless of how or if they resolve Madeleine's story.

 

 

The ambiguous ending was reminiscent of past Bond films, and something I missed actually. I feel as though Madeleine's future should be left up to our imagination - this mould should only be broken if they can secure Lea Seydoux again and really work with an excellent storyline for her that is fresh and not repetitive - one that ties in with an old school Bond/Blofeld showdown. Now, that would be my preferred ending to Craig's tenure as Bond. 

 

 

 

There are some who want Hinx and Swann back.

 

But one of the best things about a new Bond film is new baddies and new girls. The Marketing & PR Team will agree.

 

________________________________________________________________________________________________________

[sharpshooter]

I'm not sure if Hinx will return, but perhaps Irma Bunt could fill in for Blofeld while he's incarcerated. So she has her own henchperson. 

[Surrie]

I'm not sure if Hinx will return, but perhaps Irma Bunt could fill in for Blofeld while he's incarcerated. So she has her own henchperson. 

 

I would love to see Irma Bunt back - perhaps even initiating a break out of Blofeld. 

[thecasinoroyale]

Lucia needs to be the new Irma Bunt for this DC era. She total had Bond in her grip and could be a real kick in the teeth if it turns out she blatantly told him the SPECTRE hideout.

 

Hell, the SPECTRE goons were pretty much waiting for him to arrive. Lucia gave the call that 007 was on the way.

 

Sorted.