112 replies to this topic

[Professor Pi]

On my third viewing, I counted four visual references in the pre-titles sequence alone (LALD, LTK, FYEO, GE) and sixteen more by the time SPECTRE was over.  (I'm counting Monica Belluci's casting and scene as a subtle nod to TND.)  The only Bond movies that didn't appear to be visually tagged to me were TMWTGG, TSWLM (Hinx doesn't count), OP, AVTAK and DAD (unless Hinx counts.)  This seemed more like an anniversary film than Skyfall did.  It checks off all the greatest hits boxes as an anthology the way both The Spy Who Loved Me and Die Another Day did.

 

I thought the woman speaking at the SPECTRE meeting sounded a bit like Rosa Klebb.  I also wondered if their dealings in the 'leisure trade' was how Silva found Severine.  Bond going to the crater nearly mirrors Silva allowing himself to be captured.  Bond visiting Mr. White's house felt like an inversion of Skyfall's ending.  Also had a literary feel to it from the short story Octopussy (which had Oberhauser in it) where Bond affords Major Dexter Smythe time to "tidy his affairs" as it were.

 

Madeleine's childhood gun story reminded me of Camille's own childhood recollection in Quantum of Solace, though Madeleine was able to save her father while Camille couldn't. 

 

The ending made me happy too.  I'm enjoying SPECTRE more and more on repeat viewings.  There's a lot of symmetry built into it.

[sharpshooter]

Bond showing Madeleine how to use the gun, but realising she already knows her stuff, reminded me a little of Goldeneye's "do you know how to use one of these?"

[Vauxhall]

I'll admit I'm a real sceptic on most apparent references as I always think ideas are likely to crop up more than once in a 24 film series, so I feel a bit bad suggesting one!

Lucia's state of undress as Bond prepares to leave reminded me a lot of Paris Carver's equivalent outfit - the same role that Monica Bellucci was initially earmarked for.

[Blofeld's Cat]

Lucia's state of undress as Bond prepares to leave reminded me a lot of Paris Carver's equivalent outfit - the same role that Monica Bellucci was initially earmarked for.

I really should take a much closer look at both those particular scenes to validate your observation, mate. 

[tonyvenhuizen]

This is a possible literary reference, not a reference to a past film.

 

The "nine eyes" subplot reminded me a little of the Moonraker novel.  In the novel, Sir Hugo Drax purports to be a loyal Englishman who is personally paying for a revolutionary new weapons system - the "Moonraker rocket" - to secure Britain in the nuclear age.  Of course, it turns out that Drax is actually a Nazi and he intends to turn the Moonraker against Britain by bombing London.

 

Likewise, Max Denbigh or "C" is a British official who has coordinated the creation of the "nine eyes" surveillance system and the new "Center for National Security," paid for by "private benefactors" and supposedly intended to protect Britain in the information age.  In fact, it turns out that C is working for Blofeld and the "benefactor" is SPECTRE, which plans to use the surveillance system for its own purposes.

 

Not a perfect fit but at least a parallel.

 

(Although the film MOONRAKER used a completely different plot from the novel, both GOLDENEYE and DIE ANOTHER DAY had villain's plots that were somewhat similar to this.  I think the DAD filmmakers were pretty upfront about the callback to Moonraker, even including a "Gala Brand" character in early draft scripts.)

[Vauxhall]

Lucia's state of undress as Bond prepares to leave reminded me a lot of Paris Carver's equivalent outfit - the same role that Monica Bellucci was initially earmarked for.

I really should take a much closer look at both those particular scenes to validate your observation, mate. 

Haha. Oh, it's definitely worth it. I assure you.

[PrinceKamalKhan]

• I feel the Lucia scene is an answer to the Solange one.

 

 

She's basically Solange Dimitrios with a happier ending.

 

Another movie reference I saw:

The scene where Madeleine comes in with a gun to help Bond during his fight on the train with Hinx reminded me of Domino speargunning Largo in the back during his fight with Bond in TB and Tatiana shooting Klebb during her fight with Bond in FRWL.

[Professor Pi]

M confronting C's "carelessness" is like Bond confronting Dryden in Casino Royale's PTS.  Access to all that data, and C didn't see that one coming?  Wouldn't he have access to the file with Bond's kills in it?

 

"It's what you do with the information ... "  C is clearly the "moron."

[Messervy]

2 other things come to my mind:
- isn't the painting M is facing when sitting in the club the one that Bond is looking at in SF when first meeting Q?
- the villain offering Bond and Madeleine to rest, inviting them for later on and preparing suit and dress is clearly reminiscent of Dr No

[tonyvenhuizen]

2 other things come to my mind:
- isn't the painting M is facing when sitting in the club the one that Bond is looking at in SF when first meeting Q?
- the villain offering Bond and Madeleine to rest, inviting them for later on and preparing suit and dress is clearly reminiscent of Dr No

Yes I thought their little guest room was also reminiscent of Dr. No. Very 60s feel. I could almost see Sean Connery walking through that frosted glass door.

[stromberg]

2 other things come to my mind:
- isn't the painting M is facing when sitting in the club the one that Bond is looking at in SF when first meeting Q?

Definitely not.

[Guy Haines]

2 other things come to my mind:
- isn't the painting M is facing when sitting in the club the one that Bond is looking at in SF when first meeting Q?
- the villain offering Bond and Madeleine to rest, inviting them for later on and preparing suit and dress is clearly reminiscent of Dr No

Yes I thought their little guest room was also reminiscent of Dr. No. Very 60s feel. I could almost see Sean Connery walking through that frosted glass door.

I've just thought of another loose connection to Dr No the movie, in the dialogue. I might have got this wrong, but I'm sure that when Blofeld is talking about himself and Denbigh being visionaries, doesn't Bond say that "psychiatric wards are full of them." Reminded me a bit about the line Connery-Bond says to Dr No - "our asylums are full of people who think they're Napoleon.....or God."

[DaveBond21]

 

 

2 other things come to my mind:
- isn't the painting M is facing when sitting in the club the one that Bond is looking at in SF when first meeting Q?
- the villain offering Bond and Madeleine to rest, inviting them for later on and preparing suit and dress is clearly reminiscent of Dr No

Yes I thought their little guest room was also reminiscent of Dr. No. Very 60s feel. I could almost see Sean Connery walking through that frosted glass door.

I've just thought of another loose connection to Dr No the movie, in the dialogue. I might have got this wrong, but I'm sure that when Blofeld is talking about himself and Denbigh being visionaries, doesn't Bond say that "psychiatric wards are full of them." Reminded me a bit about the line Connery-Bond says to Dr No - "our asylums are full of people who think they're Napoleon.....or God."

 

 

Yes, spot on. That entire sequence has a lot of echoes of Dr No.

 

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

[rennervision]

Even Blofeld's outfit was reminiscent of Dr. No's uniform.  I would say his character was handled almost exactly the same way as Bond's first screen villain - about the same amount of movie time and he was likewise primarily introduced in the film's third act as well.

[DaveBond21]

The top hat on the bed reminded me of LALD.

 

The speedboat escaping the crumbling MI6 building echoed the same scenario in TWINE

 

The car driving across the desert made me think of QOS

[PrinceKamalKhan]

I'll admit I'm a real sceptic on most apparent references as I always think ideas are likely to crop up more than once in a 24 film series, so I feel a bit bad suggesting one!

Lucia's state of undress as Bond prepares to leave reminded me a lot of Paris Carver's equivalent outfit - the same role that Monica Bellucci was initially earmarked for.

 

As I think about it, Lucia was kind of like Paris with a happier ending. Like Paris, Lucia is a villain's wife who slaps Bond then gets romantically involved with him but unlike her doomed TND predecessor, she outlives her villainous husband and takes Bond up on his offer to get her out of the country before she's killed.

 

 

 

 

2 other things come to my mind:
- isn't the painting M is facing when sitting in the club the one that Bond is looking at in SF when first meeting Q?
- the villain offering Bond and Madeleine to rest, inviting them for later on and preparing suit and dress is clearly reminiscent of Dr No

Yes I thought their little guest room was also reminiscent of Dr. No. Very 60s feel. I could almost see Sean Connery walking through that frosted glass door.

I've just thought of another loose connection to Dr No the movie, in the dialogue. I might have got this wrong, but I'm sure that when Blofeld is talking about himself and Denbigh being visionaries, doesn't Bond say that "psychiatric wards are full of them." Reminded me a bit about the line Connery-Bond says to Dr No - "our asylums are full of people who think they're Napoleon.....or God."

 

 

Yes, spot on. That entire sequence has a lot of echoes of Dr No.

 

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

 

 

Even Blofeld's outfit was reminiscent of Dr. No's uniform.  I would say his character was handled almost exactly the same way as Bond's first screen villain - about the same amount of movie time and he was likewise primarily introduced in the film's third act as well.

 

 

Ditto to all these quotes concerning DN. The whole sequence reminded me of Bond's trip to Doctor No's HQ with Honey as I commented to a friend I saw it with and who agreed with me totally on this point. The way Bond and Madeleine are welcomed, rooms and clothing prepared for them and even drinks being offered before the battle between Bond and Oberhauser/Blofeld truly begins. Also reminiscent of Bond and Goodnight on Scaramanga's island in TMWTGG but that's because TMWTGG recalled DN also.

[PrinceKamalKhan]

And, I think, the whole approach to the story reminds me of QoS. The villains have a plot - Nine Eyes and the corruption of surveillance - but stopping it is not Bond's motivation. He wants the truth - this time about Oberhauser and SPECTRE.

 

After I first watched SPECTRE, I said to a friend who I had seen both CR and QOS with that SPECTRE was the film that I was hoping QOS would've turned out to be. In a way, SPECTRE is like an improved version of what QOS attempted to be(IMHO, of course).

[Professor Pi]

That's a good point, Prince.  The original script of QoS had its ending in the Swiss Alps, so it was good to see Bond finally confront Mr. White in Altuisse.

 

Another thought I had about the train homage to FRWL, Bond is taking the girl out of enemy territory but in SPECTRE they take the train into enemy territory.  Also, in the beginning Tanner and Bond taking the boat under Q's new digs recalls Kerim Bey and Bond underground boat trip to spy on Krilencu.

 

This is mentioned in another thread, but I'll add it here too:  the three minute timer from GoldenEye.

 

Is there a Bond movie SPECTRE doesn't reference in some way?

[PrinceKamalKhan]

That's a good point, Prince.  The original script of QoS had its ending in the Swiss Alps, so it was good to see Bond finally confront Mr. White in Altuisse.

 

Another thought I had about the train homage to FRWL, Bond is taking the girl out of enemy territory but in SPECTRE they take the train into enemy territory.  Also, in the beginning Tanner and Bond taking the boat under Q's new digs recalls Kerim Bey and Bond underground boat trip to spy on Krilencu.

 

This is mentioned in another thread, but I'll add it here too:  the three minute timer from GoldenEye.

 

Is there a Bond movie SPECTRE doesn't reference in some way?

 

I read that the Mr. White character was originally killed in QOS(perhaps that Swiss Alps scene you referenced) but they deleted the scene which made his reappearance in SP plausible.

 

As far as Bond movies that SPECTRE does not reference in some way I would say I haven't found any for DAF(other than Blofeld and the cat but that's every 1960s Bond film except DN and GF), OP, AVTAK, LTK, and DAD. If someone has found a reference for these remaining 5, please point them out. All other Bond films I could find a reference for.

[A Kristatos]

"As far as Bond movies that SPECTRE does not reference in some way I would say I haven't found any for DAF(other than Blofeld and the cat but that's every 1960s Bond film except DN and GF), OP, AVTAK, LTK, and DAD.  If someone has found a reference for these remaining 5, please point them out.  All other Bond films I could find a reference for."

 

I'm not able to get the Quote function to work either so I wrote it all out.  Anyway, having rewatched SPECTRE on a couple of occasions, I noticed an OP reference.  During the alpine airplane chase, Bond gives a quick glance to Hinx and then pulls out his gun to shoot at his car, which is reminiscent of Bond's female assistant distracting Bond's captor until he sees Bond smile and shoot him during the OP PTS.

 

I also can add an additional MR and LTK reference.  In SPECTRE, Q meets Bond in the field and later apologizes to Bond when he realizes that Bond is indeed onto something regarding the SPECTRE organization, similar to MR when Q apologies to Bond in regards to his evidence from Drax's laboratory after Drax closed it down.  Also, Q goes "rogue" to assist Bond in SPECTRE as he does in LTK, even going as far as meeting the Bond girl in his hotel room in each movie.

Edited by A Kristatos, 05 December 2015 - 07:20 AM.

[Guy Haines]

"As far as Bond movies that SPECTRE does not reference in some way I would say I haven't found any for DAF(other than Blofeld and the cat but that's every 1960s Bond film except DN and GF), OP, AVTAK, LTK, and DAD. If someone has found a reference for these remaining 5, please point them out. All other Bond films I could find a reference for."


I'm not able to get the Quote function to work either so I wrote it all out. Anyway, having rewatched SPECTRE on a couple of occasions, I noticed an OP reference. During the alpine airplane chase, Bond gives a quick glance to Hinx and then pulls out his gun to shoot at his car, which is reminiscent of Bond's female assistant distracting Bond's captor until he sees Bond smile and shoot him during the OP PTS.

I also can add an additional MR and LTK reference. In SPECTRE, Q meets Bond in the field and later apologizes to Bond when he realizes that Bond is indeed onto something regarding the SPECTRE organization, similar to MR when Q apologies to Bond in regards to his evidence from Drax's laboratory after Drax closed it down. Also, Q goes "rogue" to assist Bond in SPECTRE as he does in LTK, even going as far as meeting the Bond girl in his hotel room in each movie.

DAF - oh but there is! The Bond/Hinx train fight when at one point Bond sets fire to Hinx, just as he did to Mr Kidd in DAF. Only unlike the panic stricken Kidd he doesn't run away blazing - Hinx just shrugs off his jacket and carries on pummelling Bond.

[Professor Pi]

 

That's a good point, Prince.  The original script of QoS had its ending in the Swiss Alps, so it was good to see Bond finally confront Mr. White in Altuisse.

 

Another thought I had about the train homage to FRWL, Bond is taking the girl out of enemy territory but in SPECTRE they take the train into enemy territory.  Also, in the beginning Tanner and Bond taking the boat under Q's new digs recalls Kerim Bey and Bond underground boat trip to spy on Krilencu.

 

This is mentioned in another thread, but I'll add it here too:  the three minute timer from GoldenEye.

 

Is there a Bond movie SPECTRE doesn't reference in some way?

 

I read that the Mr. White character was originally killed in QOS(perhaps that Swiss Alps scene you referenced) but they deleted the scene which made his reappearance in SP plausible.

 

As far as Bond movies that SPECTRE does not reference in some way I would say I haven't found any for DAF(other than Blofeld and the cat but that's every 1960s Bond film except DN and GF), OP, AVTAK, LTK, and DAD. If someone has found a reference for these remaining 5, please point them out. All other Bond films I could find a reference for.

 

 

LTK is all over SPECTRE.  The opening scene's assassination mirrors Dalton's attempt on Sanchez.  Also, it's the same elevator Bond and Estrella enter in the same hotel as DaltonBond and Pam Bouvier in LTK.  Even the snow plane chase has some of the same feel to it as Pam flying the plane during the tanker chase in LTK.

 

There's a literary/film reference to OP.  The story Octopussy tells Bond about her father, Major Dexter Smythe--and how he let him the opportunity to "tidy his affairs" rather than arresting him for stealing the Nazi gold.  In the book, he takes one final swim and is poisoned by a lion fish and then his pet "octopussy" begins to eat him.  But in the film, she says he shoots himself rather than face the disgrace of a court martial.  That scene is pretty much shot with the Mr. White character standing in for Dexter Smythe, both of whom have daughters Bond hooks up with.  Then there's also the octopus symbol itself, though that's probably unintentional. 

 

I wonder if the abandoned chess game is a nod to FRWL's Kronsteen, what with The Pale King no longer playing "our game."

 

The barrel roll stunts are obviously TMWTGG.  The snow chase/Tangiers sequence runs like "The Living Daylights" portion of SPECTRE.  Did anyone else see the motorcycle being worked on in Q's lab and think of Never Say Never Again?

 

So AVTAK and DAD seem like the only two that aren't referenced?

[Guy Haines]

Just thought of a very loose DAD reference. In DAD the US intelligence chief accuses M of not keeping Bond under control and threatens all kind of trouble for MI6. In SPECTRE, Denbigh plays back the recording of Bond and Moneypenny - implying M can't keep his people under control. And of course later in the movie goes further than Damien Falco could do and actually shuts down the Double-O section.

(Off topic, and only because I can't find a thread to comment about it on, but I think one of my favourite lines in the film is in the Bond/M meeting at the start. Commenting on what happened in Mexico City; Bond "With all due respect sir, it could have been worse." M; - "You blew up half a b****y block!" ;-) )

[Guy Haines]

Re: a reference to AVTAK - the nearest one I can think of, and again it is loose, is the death of Max Denbigh - fighting with M then falling to his death, just as Zorin fought with Bond before falling to his. As I say, the only one that remotely springs to my mind. ;-)

[Professor Pi]

Just thought of a very loose DAD reference. In DAD the US intelligence chief accuses M of not keeping Bond under control and threatens all kind of trouble for MI6. In SPECTRE, Denbigh plays back the recording of Bond and Moneypenny - implying M can't keep his people under control. And of course later in the movie goes further than Damien Falco could do and actually shuts down the Double-O section.

(Off topic, and only because I can't find a thread to comment about it on, but I think one of my favourite lines in the film is in the Bond/M meeting at the start. Commenting on what happened in Mexico City; Bond "With all due respect sir, it could have been worse." M; - "You blew up half a b****y block!" ;-) )

 

Did you notice Denbigh stops the recording after Bond asks Moneypenny, "Look up another name for me," but before he mentions Franz Oberhauser? 

 

The other line I liked in M's office is "You're right, sir.  You do have a tricky day ahead."  Then when Denbigh walks in, I'm thinking, "Has any other Bond movie introduced the villain that quickly, and in M's office no less?!"

[Guy Haines]

Just thought of a very loose DAD reference. In DAD the US intelligence chief accuses M of not keeping Bond under control and threatens all kind of trouble for MI6. In SPECTRE, Denbigh plays back the recording of Bond and Moneypenny - implying M can't keep his people under control. And of course later in the movie goes further than Damien Falco could do and actually shuts down the Double-O section.
(Off topic, and only because I can't find a thread to comment about it on, but I think one of my favourite lines in the film is in the Bond/M meeting at the start. Commenting on what happened in Mexico City; Bond "With all due respect sir, it could have been worse." M; - "You blew up half a b****y block!" ;-) )

 
Did you notice Denbigh stops the recording after Bond asks Moneypenny, "Look up another name for me," but before he mentions Franz Oberhauser? 
 
The other line I liked in M's office is "You're right, sir.  You do have a tricky day ahead."  Then when Denbigh walks in, I'm thinking, "Has any other Bond movie introduced the villain that quickly, and in M's office no less?!"

Yes, I like that line about a "tricky day ahead". Bond using sarcasm and at M no less. Of course when Denbigh walks in we don't know he's a wrong 'un, although he does the kind of management-speak that, were it not for his appearance and general demeanor would make one mark him down as the "David Brent" of British Intelligence. As the film goes on, though, you start to wonder about Denbigh, especially his obsession with surveillance, and it starts to dawn on you that yes, he's a wrong 'un all right!

[PrinceKamalKhan]

Re: a reference to AVTAK - the nearest one I can think of, and again it is loose, is the death of Max Denbigh - fighting with M then falling to his death, just as Zorin fought with Bond before falling to his. As I say, the only one that remotely springs to my mind. ;-)

 

The closest AVTAK reference I can think of is that in both films after the big climactic action sequence with the explosion(Silicon Valley in AVTAK, SPECTRE's Moroccan desert HQ in SPECTRE) there's more action set against the background of a major city(San Francisco/London) involving the villain's escape in an air vehicle(zeppelin, helicopter) with the final confrontation between Bond and the villain on a bridge where Bond then reunites with his leading lady.

 

Here's an article called "How SPECTRE references all 23 previous Bond films"

http://www.flickerin...bond-films.html

 

http://www.flickerin...nd-films.html/2

 

[Vauxhall]

 

2 other things come to my mind:
- isn't the painting M is facing when sitting in the club the one that Bond is looking at in SF when first meeting Q?

Definitely not.

 

No, but interesting fact - JMW Turner, who painted The Fighting Temeraire, was born in Maiden Lane - just doors from the site of the restaurant Rules.

[Tiin007]

 

Re: a reference to AVTAK - the nearest one I can think of, and again it is loose, is the death of Max Denbigh - fighting with M then falling to his death, just as Zorin fought with Bond before falling to his. As I say, the only one that remotely springs to my mind. ;-)

 

The closest AVTAK reference I can think of is that in both films after the big climactic action sequence with the explosion(Silicon Valley in AVTAK, SPECTRE's Moroccan desert HQ in SPECTRE) there's more action set against the background of a major city(San Francisco/London) involving the villain's escape in an air vehicle(zeppelin, helicopter) with the final confrontation between Bond and the villain on a bridge where Bond then reunites with his leading lady.

 

Here's an article called "How SPECTRE references all 23 previous Bond films"

http://www.flickerin...bond-films.html

 

http://www.flickerin...nd-films.html/2

 

 

 

Two points I would like to make, first on the article you shared, and then on this discussion in general.

 

1) Regarding the article, some of those hardly (and I'm being generous by using that word) count as references. Look at what he wrote for TND, or for FYEO. And barring Blofeld, I would not count DAF either. Am I to assume SPECTRE is "referencing" those films? 

 

2) As to this topic in general, there is something I need to say, and I mean this in the kindest / gentlest way possible (I am not out to offend anybody, as I respect everyone's opinions). But MANY of the references / homages listed in this thread, in my opinion, were neither intentional, nor can even really count. I remember after Skyfall was released, when a similar discussion was had on these forums, and some suggested that the fight between Bond and Patrice on top of the train in the PTS was a homage to Octopussy. As one poster pointed out in response, after 23 films, certain scenes and / or set pieces are bound to inadvertently resemble one another, but that does not make it a homage.

 

Examples of what I consider to be actual homages:

- The DB5 (particularly in Skyfall)

- Bond carrying a Universal Exports card in QoS which lists his name as Robert Sterling (same alias he had in TSWLM)

- Fields covered in oil (a la Jill in GF)

 

But many of the examples in this thread, if you will forgive me, seem to not be homages or references at all, but rather "things which inadvertently conjure up thoughts of other Bond movies." I cannot believe that many of those things listed here were actually intended by P & W, Broccoli & Wilson, and / or Mendes. Granted, some of them (such as the striking resemblance between Madeline's clinic and Piz Gloria) for sure count as references, but a part of me feels like we may be trying a little too hard here.

 

Again, I do not mean that in an offensive way in the slightest, and I certainly admire the effort involved by many on these forums. It is great to be a Bond fan.

[tdalton]

The existence of a thread like this is proof that EON has gone overboard with trying to stuff the films full of references to the previous films.  Strangely, those films shouldn't even exist in the timeline that the Craig films are supposedly operating in. 

 

This is a fundamental problem with the films under the current EON regime that needs to be corrected for the long-term health of the franchise.  Eventually they're going to have to come up with new iconic moments for later films to reference, otherwise Bond is going to turn into one of those oldies bands that just tours playing their old hits and never offers up anything new.  We're getting dangerously close to that territory now, which is rather sad considering we're only four films into this supposed "reboot".

Edited by tdalton, 07 December 2015 - 02:50 AM.