453 replies to this topic

[Vauxhall]

Too tired to think properly, but overall - I loved it. Left the cinema feeling even more "full" than I did after SKYFALL. Fewer plot holes, a overriding sense of fun, and probably the most openly funny scenes in a long time. This is one of the good ones.
More in the morning.

I eagerly await your detailed thoughts.

Yes, so do I Specially since I know that if you loved it, I´ll love it as well.

Thanks guys. Working on it now!

[KM16]

 

Hopefully they took her out as to not blow their entire Spectre wad in one fell swoop.

Given how development unfolded, I think it's more likely she was cut because her role in the film no longer made sense. I don't think Spectre was designed with any sort of long-term plan in mind.

 

Spoiler

The October 2014 draft still had Bloferhauser biting the dust. The decision to leave Bloferhauser alive apparently had more to with Bond's arc than it did with any future plans for the character.

 

 

Blah. Given that Bond has always been about lifting trends from other film franchises, they need to get on the ball and start setting up a continuing universe. Spin-off's and such aside as they're not necessary, a universe is obviously the biggest trend in Hollywood so I'm surprised they aren't being such forward thinkers when it comes to this idea.

 

I miss the days of Bond going into M's office and receiving a random mission but clearly times have changed so why they don't just plan ahead for a continuing story arc is beyond me. They now have their "Joker"-esque villain / ultimate baddie back in the franchise, they should be planning things ahead several films. Bloferhauser isn't necessary in every film, but they could've easily set up a No. 2 type figure in the boardroom scene for a future film the same way they set up Mr. White over the course of several films. Hell, this would be the perfect opportunity to bring in characters to the reboot universe like Largo, Irma Bunt, the Black Dragon Society....and maybe even a cameo by a youngster named Nena. They could show up for a single film and if they follow through with them in the future, awesome. If not, then it's just great fan-service by acknowledging their existence.

 

I was hoping that EON taking the Spectre route that it could lead to bigger things to come and that hopefully they would plan for the future enough to build a multi-story arc that could span different actors for the next few films considering Craig is nearing his end. I mean, it's not that difficult given how rich the Bond mythos is. lol

[antovolk]

Rewatch thoughts - better this time round. More rewatchable than SF in any case I feel. Madeleine/Bond relationship still a problem for me.....

Spoiler

totally fine with the Blofeld reveal now.

And really like third act, train scene on. This is where the film IMO really hits its stride tone and pace wise. Wish the first half was not so sterile but this will do for sure.

PS. Newman leading his score into WOTW is a brilliant touch.

[Vauxhall]

Good to hear.

That transition is something I really want to pay attention to on second viewing. Was drowned out a bit with the laughter on opening night.

[seawolfnyy]

 

Hopefully they took her out as to not blow their entire Spectre wad in one fell swoop.

Given how development unfolded, I think it's more likely she was cut because her role in the film no longer made sense. I don't think Spectre was designed with any sort of long-term plan in mind.

 

Spoiler

The October 2014 draft still had Bloferhauser biting the dust. The decision to leave Bloferhauser alive apparently had more to with Bond's arc than it did with any future plans for the character.

 

You must have seen a different draft than me then.

Spoiler

The one I read was from October 2014 and had Bloferhauser surviving. Though there was no torture scene and the Blofeld reveal was done over a very interesting poker game that unfortunately got replaced for the final draft.

[Guy Haines]

Good to hear.
That transition is something I really want to pay attention to on second viewing. Was drowned out a bit with the laughter on opening night.

My audience must have a different sense of humour - no laughs at that stage. M's definition of what the letter "C" stands for, on the other hand...... ;-)

[Harmsway]

 

 

Hopefully they took her out as to not blow their entire Spectre wad in one fell swoop.

Given how development unfolded, I think it's more likely she was cut because her role in the film no longer made sense. I don't think Spectre was designed with any sort of long-term plan in mind.

 

Spoiler

The October 2014 draft still had Bloferhauser biting the dust. The decision to leave Bloferhauser alive apparently had more to with Bond's arc than it did with any future plans for the character.

 

You must have seen a different draft than me then.

Spoiler

The one I read was from October 2014 and had Bloferhauser surviving. Though there was no torture scene and the Blofeld reveal was done over a very interesting poker game that unfortunately got replaced for the final draft.

 

The poker game was from the December draft. October draft had something different, including a bit with a solar furnace.

[seawolfnyy]

Hmm, weird. It was dated October 27, 2014 I believe. Now I'm interested to see this other October draft.

[Harmsway]

Hmm, weird. It was dated October 27, 2014 I believe. Now I'm interested to see this other October draft.

The confusion arises from the fact that the title page for the December version still has an October date listed on the front. However, the December draft also has substantial revisions throughout that date to November and December.

The original October draft, prior to later revisions, was a bit of a mess. The third act didn't work at all.

[seawolfnyy]

Ok, gotcha. Was that when Purvis and Wade were brought back on board then?

[Harmsway]

Was that when Purvis and Wade were brought back on board then?

As far as I'm aware, the October draft was the first P&W draft.

[Vauxhall]

Good to hear.
That transition is something I really want to pay attention to on second viewing. Was drowned out a bit with the laughter on opening night.

My audience must have a different sense of humour - no laughs at that stage. M's definition of what the letter "C" stands for, on the other hand...... ;-)

That got an even bigger laugh!

The other was for:

Spoiler

Hinx swearing as he was dragged out the door

[Guy Haines]

Good to hear.
That transition is something I really want to pay attention to on second viewing. Was drowned out a bit with the laughter on opening night.

My audience must have a different sense of humour - no laughs at that stage. M's definition of what the letter "C" stands for, on the other hand...... ;-)

That got an even bigger laugh!
The other was for:

Spoiler

Hinx swearing as he was dragged out the door

I don't think we do big laughs in my patch, although - and it was the same multiplex nine years ago - Bond's invitation to Le Chiffre to sort out some problems in his nether regions got one of the biggest LOLs I've ever heard in any Bond film! ;-)

[thecasinoroyale]

One thing I'll be curious about, is in the trailer we see a shot of the SPECTRE goon without an eye after Hinx takes him out, and it was one of the best bits IMO.

 

Now, that shot is cut from the film, at least it is here in the UK. 

 

I'd like to know if that makes it into the international cut, or if it was a general cut/re-edit of that shot.

[antovolk]

One thing I'll be curious about, is in the trailer we see a shot of the SPECTRE goon without an eye after Hinx takes him out, and it was one of the best bits IMO.

Now, that shot is cut from the film, at least it is here in the UK.

I'd like to know if that makes it into the international cut, or if it was a general cut/re-edit of that shot.

I think it would've been specified if the UK version is any different from international cuts like Casino Royale.

[Vauxhall]

What other shots do we know to have been filmed but cut from the film? The one that jumped out at me was Bond entering MI6 and walking between the secretaries' desks.

[Guy Haines]

A cut line, certainly;

Spoiler

"Look around you James. Everything you stood for, everything you believed in..... a ruin!" I assume this was intended for the final showdown in the old MI6 HQ.

[thecasinoroyale]

I think it's interesting how the first snippits of dialogue from trailers are always so SO different to the way it's then played out in the final film. Two lines I heard in the trailers:

 

"Welcome, James." and "I was taking some over-due holiday," were both quite casual in how they came across.

 

In the final film, both were said and delivered with much more drama.

[seawolfnyy]

Not only, but I believe the "Welcome, James" line changes between the first 2 trailers.

[thecasinoroyale]

Very true - it does. I always wonder why that happens, and even "Mexico City..." spoken by M was less gritty than it was in the final film. It's funny why they do that.

[Guy Haines]

Concerning the opening scenes after the theme tune;

Spoiler

I was expecting them in reverse order. Tanner and Bond meeting Q, going though the DB10 and other stuff, before Bond gets the summons to the "headmaster's study" - M's office - for a right good telling off. And I was expecting Bond to be suspended, have his licence revoked, or even be sacked. Mallory, after all, isn't as sentimental about Bond as his predecessor, and points out that events in Mexico City have given "C" the excuse he needs to close down the Double Os for good - not that he needed one, but M didn't know that then.

[seawolfnyy]

One thing I'm curious about with Spectre is

 

Spoiler

Silva's involvement. I believe he is meant to be the IT as they put it. Does this mean that the Skyfall incident was all SPECTRE's doing as a catalyst for the UK's involvement with Nine Eyes? Or does Silva go rogue because he wants to discredit and kill M?

[RMc2]

One thing I'm curious about with Spectre is

 

Spoiler

Silva's involvement. I believe he is meant to be the IT as they put it. Does this mean that the Skyfall incident was all SPECTRE's doing as a catalyst for the UK's involvement with Nine Eyes? Or does Silva go rogue because he wants to discredit and kill M?

 

Spoiler

I think Blofeld's meant to have funded Silva and helped him with his plan against M. It wasn't very clear in the film. I assume Blofeld worked with Silva after finding out about his vendetta against M. 'The enemy of my enemy' kind of thing.

[Guy Haines]

One thing I'm curious about with Spectre is
 

Spoiler

Silva's involvement. I believe he is meant to be the IT as they put it. Does this mean that the Skyfall incident was all SPECTRE's doing as a catalyst for the UK's involvement with Nine Eyes? Or does Silva go rogue because he wants to discredit and kill M?

 

Spoiler

I think Blofeld's meant to have funded Silva and helped him with his plan against M. It wasn't very clear in the film. I assume Blofeld worked with Silva after finding out about his vendetta against M. 'The enemy of my enemy' kind of thing.

About all we learn is;

Spoiler

The villains from the previous Craig movies - they are all linked to SPECTRE, as is Quantum. Which the screenwriters Purvis & Wade made clear in their "notes" about the villains from the previous movies in Empire Magazine's "Spectre" edition.

[Vauxhall]

The following past characters are shown or referred to in some way:

Spoiler

Le Chiffre, Vesper, Greene, Silva, Patrice, M

[rubixcub]

@PeteNeon (because I can't use the quote function on this computer): you won't like this, but according to SecretAgentFan in the World Premiere thread, "Barbara Broccoli stated that they are intent on keeping Craig AND Mendes."

 

http://debrief.comma...-october/page-7 - post #202

 

Dave

[antovolk]

A cut line, certainly;

Still there.

Edited by antovolk, 28 October 2015 - 11:31 PM.

[RMc2]

 

 

One thing I'm curious about with Spectre is
 

Spoiler

Silva's involvement. I believe he is meant to be the IT as they put it. Does this mean that the Skyfall incident was all SPECTRE's doing as a catalyst for the UK's involvement with Nine Eyes? Or does Silva go rogue because he wants to discredit and kill M?

 

Spoiler

I think Blofeld's meant to have funded Silva and helped him with his plan against M. It wasn't very clear in the film. I assume Blofeld worked with Silva after finding out about his vendetta against M. 'The enemy of my enemy' kind of thing.

About all we learn is;

Spoiler

The villains from the previous Craig movies - they are all linked to SPECTRE, as is Quantum. Which the screenwriters Purvis & Wade made clear in their "notes" about the villains from the previous movies in Empire Magazine's "Spectre" edition.

 

 

Ooh, I need to read those now! It's nice not having to avoid spoilers any more

[PeteNeon]

@PeteNeon (because I can't use the quote function on this computer): you won't like this, but according to SecretAgentFan in the World Premiere thread, "Barbara Broccoli stated that they are intent on keeping Craig AND Mendes."

 

http://debrief.comma...-october/page-7 - post #202

 

Dave

Oh well. It's not that I don't like Mendes, but Bond thrives on change and it doesn't need him to be good.

 

(And the retro stuff is probably here to stay now, regardless of who directs it! )

 

Actually hang on, Mendes means more Thomas Newman. The Spectre score was incredibly lazy!

[thecasinoroyale]

I agree with the score feeling lazy, that's for sure.

 

And I can imagine Craig pushing Mendes to "do one final one" together and go out with a bang, seems like Craig wants Mendes as his director for Bond. When one goes, so does the other.

 

 

And now after my 00-3rd viewing (proud of that), there are two gaps I would have liked answers to if anyone cares to divulge in them:

 

Spoiler

I) We should have haD more from Judi Dench as 'M' in the video. Giving Bond a name and objective was fine but I wished we found out what SHE knew about SPECTRE, because during 'Skyfall' it was like she had no clue at all about what it could possibly be, but as he got the video days after her death, I wish I could know what she really knew during 'Skyfall' to prepare the video and to get Bond to the funeral.

 

II) How and when did Blofeld know to send a car to pick up Bond and Swann from the Morocco train station? He didn't even know he was coming...unless we are to assume Mr Hinx "phoned ahead"?

 

 

Still a cracking film. And I actually loved the PTS even more this time, the helicopter work is phenomenal.