462 replies to this topic

[SecretAgentFan]

It's a pity B. Ret Smythe seems to have been taken out by Hinx from the forum. He had a very convincing argument I was eager to hear more of. Oh well. Back to reality!

 

Trust me - there was nothing convincing about him.

[tdalton]

It's a pity B. Ret Smythe seems to have been taken out by Hinx from the forum. He had a very convincing argument I was eager to hear more of. Oh well. Back to reality!

 
Trust me - there was nothing convincing about him.

Are you telling me that there won't be any Control Mines in SPECTRE? That's perhaps too big a spoiler even for the spoiler section.

[thecasinoroyale]

Don't worry SAF- sarcasm doesn't come over well in typing it down!

[SecretAgentFan]

Don't worry SAF- sarcasm doesn't come over well in typing it down!

 

Oh, yes - sorry!

 

 

It's a pity B. Ret Smythe seems to have been taken out by Hinx from the forum. He had a very convincing argument I was eager to hear more of. Oh well. Back to reality!

 
Trust me - there was nothing convincing about him.

 

Are you telling me that there won't be any Control Mines in SPECTRE? That's perhaps too big a spoiler even for the spoiler section.

 

[Guy Haines]

Pity you can't do accents in type, otherwise I'd try some of the crusty old high court judge type and ask; "Tell me, what is a control mine?"

[Dustin]

Your Honour, a device for somebody who's lost control.

And just to clear this up and debunk any rumours, we do not employ a Hinx in these halls. We do, however, employ a charlady. In doubtful cases she asks if it's supposed to be art. Or if it can go into the waste bin. You may guess my answer here...

[Guy Haines]

So now we know! Spoiler alert so if you haven't seen SPECTRE - which includes large numbers of our friends across the pond - don't read if you don't want to know.

 

Spoiler

Oberhauser and Blofeld are indeed one and the same person, revealed in a way that, for all my convoluted ideas on this thread, should have occurred to me , and didn't! It's not made completely clear but he was either Hannes Oberhauser's natural son, or more likely I think his stepson. The key name, which again I never thought of, was his mother's family name - Blofeld. Bond knew him as Franz Oberhauser - he probably never knew him by any other name. But now, years later, for a reason revealed in the movie, "Oberhauser" calls himself Ernst Stavro Blofeld.

[thecasinoroyale]

A super villain that we deserve - that's who he is. Wonderfully played by Waltz.

[Guy Haines]

One other thing - only my opinion, but;

 

Spoiler

Blofeld could well be back, but I think the storyline and what happens to him sets up the possibility that he could be played by a different actor

[Harmsway]

One other thing - only my opinion, but;

Spoiler

Blofeld could well be back, but I think the storyline and what happens to him sets up the possibility that he could be played by a different actor

How so?

[univex]

 

One other thing - only my opinion, but;

Spoiler

Blofeld could well be back, but I think the storyline and what happens to him sets up the possibility that he could be played by a different actor

How so?

 

Spoiler

In need of plastic surgery, I guess. Extensively.

[thecasinoroyale]

My view on that....

 

Spoiler

The facial scar wouldn't be enough to warrant a whole facial repair would it? It's such an awesome and trademark wound to have and looked so effective on Waltz that it'd be a crime to replace him. Nobody could replace Waltz and carry his sinister presence and voice. IMO.

[seawolfnyy]

Spoiler

The shooting script had Blofeld's name listed as Ernst Slebin, I believe. Obviously, this was in the script was leaked (which it was). Honestly though, just like with John Harrison/Khan and Eve/Moneypenny, this was the productions worst kept secret.

[rubixcub]

@Guy Haines: dang, I posted three scenarios, and that STILL didn't occur to me!

 

Thanks for the info.

 

Dave

[Guy Haines]

@Guy Haines: dang, I posted three scenarios, and that STILL didn't occur to me!
 
Thanks for the info.
 
Dave

rubixcube - You and me both! The lengths I went to! To try and find a plausible reason for Oberhauser to be.... that villain.

That said, I still think there's some ambiguity about his real ID.

Spoiler

Was he born Oberhauser and adopted the name Blofeld? Or was he born Blofeld, adopted the name Oberhauser and reverted back to his original name? I don't think the film makes it clear.

[seawolfnyy]

@Guy Haines: dang, I posted three scenarios, and that STILL didn't occur to me!
 
Thanks for the info.
 
Dave

rubixcube - You and me both! The lengths I went to! To try and find a plausible reason for Oberhauser to be.... that villain.
That said, I still think there's some ambiguity about his real ID.

Spoiler

Was he born Oberhauser and adopted the name Blofeld? Or was he born Blofeld, adopted the name Oberhauser and reverted back to his original name? I don't think the film makes it clear.

They don't even touch on that in the script.

[Guy Haines]

@Guy Haines: dang, I posted three scenarios, and that STILL didn't occur to me!
 
Thanks for the info.
 
Dave

rubixcube - You and me both! The lengths I went to! To try and find a plausible reason for Oberhauser to be.... that villain.
That said, I still think there's some ambiguity about his real ID.

Spoiler

Was he born Oberhauser and adopted the name Blofeld? Or was he born Blofeld, adopted the name Oberhauser and reverted back to his original name? I don't think the film makes it clear.

They don't even touch on that in the script.

A pity because it's an inversion of what happened in OHMSS, imho;

Spoiler

In OHMSS Blofeld claims the name "Count De Bleauchamp". In SPECTRE, Oberhauser claims the name Ernst Stavro Blofeld. We don't even know if it's his real name. Only that he claimed it from his mother's "bloodline". So, was he born Oberhauser? Or Blofeld? It's left vague, no doubt intentionally.

[Vauxhall]

Spoiler

Sounds to me that he was born Oberhauser, as that's what Bond knew him as a boy. He then took his mother's name Blofeld when he killed his father.

[Logie]

Spoiler

Sounds to me that he was born Oberhauser, as that's what Bond knew him as a boy. He then took his mother's name Blofeld when he killed his father.

That's how it came across to me, too. What I don't understand, though -

Spoiler

all that talk of Bond being a 'cuckoo'; is Oberhauser saying it's all Bond's fault that he killed his father, changed his name to ESB and invented SPECTRE?

[Guy Haines]

Spoiler

Sounds to me that he was born Oberhauser, as that's what Bond knew him as a boy. He then took his mother's name Blofeld when he killed his father.

Spoiler

Quite possible, either that or he was born Blofeld, then his mother re-married to Oberhauser, the son changing his name to his step father's, and on killing him Franz became Ernst. Quite apart from wanting to reclaim his mother's family name, he'd need a new identity, having faked his own death as well as arranging his father/step father's real death. All of this "mum or dad" taking of sides reminds me a bit of a fairly recent Bond film, namely TWINE - Elektra having her dad assassinated so she could claim the oil inheritance her father had "stolen" from her mother's family. I think there was scope within SPECTRE for a little more explanation as to why Blofeld killed Hannes Oberhauser. Was it because of a "cuckoo in the nest"? Or had Hannes discovered a chache of Nazi gold which Franz coveted and wanted for himself? (A nod there towards the Octopussy short story) That might explain how Blofeld financed his first ventures. Should this villain return - highly likely I think, whoever plays him - we may find out more.

Spoiler

Sounds to me that he was born Oberhauser, as that's what Bond knew him as a boy. He then took his mother's name Blofeld when he killed his father.

That's how it came across to me, too. What I don't understand, though -

Spoiler

all that talk of Bond being a 'cuckoo'; is Oberhauser saying it's all Bond's fault that he killed his father, changed his name to ESB and invented SPECTRE?

Spoiler

Although we aren't told, I think there was more to it than jealousy and quite possibly Bond wasn't the trigger for all that followed. I've suggested a possible, Fleming based explanation in my previous spoiler comment - that Blofeld didn't really have "adopted sibling rivalry" issues, he was just an evil, greedy little so-and-so.

[thecasinoroyale]

Logie, I think the "cuckoo" reference refers to...

 

Spoiler

...a cuckoo lays their eggs in the nest of others, ultimately pushing the other birds out as they make a home.

 

In this case, Oberhauser and his father were already a loving father/son I assume. Bond is the cuckoo. He comes into their home after his parents killed, and Hannes Oberhauser takes to Bond a great deal and it boils down to Franz being very jealous and feeling pushed out - the "other bird" in the nest as Bond "The Cuckoo" takes over.

 

So Franz, obviously an irrational and dangerous youth, opted to kill his father and, to others, himself  so he could then re-invent himself as Ernst Blofeld using his mothers side of name. So I figure Blofeld does blame Bond for coming along and forcing him to kill his father. Of course it's not Bond's fault as it wasn't even his will, but Blofeld pins it on him regardless.

 

Blofeld blames Bond for forcing him to kill his father, and for killing his father had to re-invent himself as Blofeld. I think SPECTRE came from the mind of a youth already bitter and out for vengeance on James Bond and then the wider world.

[Guy Haines]

Logie, I think the "cuckoo" reference refers to...
 

Spoiler

...a cuckoo lays their eggs in the nest of others, ultimately pushing the other birds out as they make a home.
 
In this case, Oberhauser and his father were already a loving father/son I assume. Bond is the cuckoo. He comes into their home after his parents killed, and Hannes Oberhauser takes to Bond a great deal and it boils down to Franz being very jealous and feeling pushed out - the "other bird" in the nest as Bond "The Cuckoo" takes over.
 
So Franz, obviously an irrational and dangerous youth, opted to kill his father and, to others, himself  so he could then re-invent himself as Ernst Blofeld using his mothers side of name. So I figure Blofeld does blame Bond for coming along and forcing him to kill his father. Of course it's not Bond's fault as it wasn't even his will, but Blofeld pins it on him regardless.
 
Blofeld blames Bond for forcing him to kill his father, and for killing his father had to re-invent himself as Blofeld. I think SPECTRE came from the mind of a youth already bitter and out for vengeance on James Bond and then the wider world.

Spoiler

Although I still think ESB was an evil greedy so-and-so and were it to emerge in a future adventure the Nazi gold cache explanation from Octopussy might really account for Hannes' death, the "cuckoo" reference does give a new meaning to the line "You interfered in my world; I destroyed yours." It could be read as Bond not only being responsible for the failure of several SPECTRE projects in the past decade but, decades before that, inadvertently disrupting the Oberhauser household's domestic bliss.

[Guy Haines]

Another daft idea I freely admit, and come the autumn I'll if I'm close to the truth or nowhere near it!

Frankly said, I hope you're nowhere near it.
My current guess is that Blofeld is the name he adopted years ago (for whatever reason) and which he uses. And after Bond sees his face, he knows that his real name is Franz Oberhauser, his childhood friend. Matches with what Waltz said: "The character I play is named Franz Oberhauser." and he's still Blofeld.

Spoiler

Stromberg, I think you've won the "Who Is Oberhauser" award. Nailed it, pretty much. He calls himself Blofeld. SPECTRE knows him as Blofeld. Only one man knows him by another name.

[RMc2]

 

Spoiler

Sounds to me that he was born Oberhauser, as that's what Bond knew him as a boy. He then took his mother's name Blofeld when he killed his father.

Spoiler

Quite possible, either that or he was born Blofeld, then his mother re-married to Oberhauser, the son changing his name to his step father's, and on killing him Franz became Ernst. Quite apart from wanting to reclaim his mother's family name, he'd need a new identity, having faked his own death as well as arranging his father/step father's real death. All of this "mum or dad" taking of sides reminds me a bit of a fairly recent Bond film, namely TWINE - Elektra having her dad assassinated so she could claim the oil inheritance her father had "stolen" from her mother's family. I think there was scope within SPECTRE for a little more explanation as to why Blofeld killed Hannes Oberhauser. Was it because of a "cuckoo in the nest"? Or had Hannes discovered a chache of Nazi gold which Franz coveted and wanted for himself? (A nod there towards the Octopussy short story) That might explain how Blofeld financed his first ventures. Should this villain return - highly likely I think, whoever plays him - we may find out more.

 

Spoiler

Sounds to me that he was born Oberhauser, as that's what Bond knew him as a boy. He then took his mother's name Blofeld when he killed his father.

That's how it came across to me, too. What I don't understand, though -

Spoiler

all that talk of Bond being a 'cuckoo'; is Oberhauser saying it's all Bond's fault that he killed his father, changed his name to ESB and invented SPECTRE?

Spoiler

Although we aren't told, I think there was more to it than jealousy and quite possibly Bond wasn't the trigger for all that followed. I've suggested a possible, Fleming based explanation in my previous spoiler comment - that Blofeld didn't really have "adopted sibling rivalry" issues, he was just an evil, greedy little so-and-so.

 

 

I really wish

Spoiler

they had added the Nazi gold stash into Blofeld's speech. It would've been a wonderful nod to the novels and, as you say, easily explain how Blofeld got his start in the criminal underworld.

[stromberg]

 

 

Spoiler

Sounds to me that he was born Oberhauser, as that's what Bond knew him as a boy. He then took his mother's name Blofeld when he killed his father.

Spoiler

Quite possible, either that or he was born Blofeld, then his mother re-married to Oberhauser, the son changing his name to his step father's, and on killing him Franz became Ernst. Quite apart from wanting to reclaim his mother's family name, he'd need a new identity, having faked his own death as well as arranging his father/step father's real death. All of this "mum or dad" taking of sides reminds me a bit of a fairly recent Bond film, namely TWINE - Elektra having her dad assassinated so she could claim the oil inheritance her father had "stolen" from her mother's family. I think there was scope within SPECTRE for a little more explanation as to why Blofeld killed Hannes Oberhauser. Was it because of a "cuckoo in the nest"? Or had Hannes discovered a chache of Nazi gold which Franz coveted and wanted for himself? (A nod there towards the Octopussy short story) That might explain how Blofeld financed his first ventures. Should this villain return - highly likely I think, whoever plays him - we may find out more.

 

Spoiler

Sounds to me that he was born Oberhauser, as that's what Bond knew him as a boy. He then took his mother's name Blofeld when he killed his father.

That's how it came across to me, too. What I don't understand, though -

Spoiler

all that talk of Bond being a 'cuckoo'; is Oberhauser saying it's all Bond's fault that he killed his father, changed his name to ESB and invented SPECTRE?

Spoiler

Although we aren't told, I think there was more to it than jealousy and quite possibly Bond wasn't the trigger for all that followed. I've suggested a possible, Fleming based explanation in my previous spoiler comment - that Blofeld didn't really have "adopted sibling rivalry" issues, he was just an evil, greedy little so-and-so.

 

 

I really wish

Spoiler

they had added the Nazi gold stash into Blofeld's speech. It would've been a wonderful nod to the novels and, as you say, easily explain how Blofeld got his start in the criminal underworld.

 

Me too. But 

Spoiler

there's a chance that they're still going to use it. Everything is open for a Blofeld return and a lengthy speech about his past. But I doubt the theory that Hannes was his only step-father. This wouldn't have resulted in such strong feelings that made Franz kill him. The "cuckoo" stole his real father, and what was jealousy at first turned into hatred towards both of them.

[Harmsway]

Did any of the "Les Spectres de Pierre" backstory make the final cut? I'm guessing not.

[glidrose]

[stromberg]

Did any of the "Les Spectres de Pierre" backstory make the final cut? I'm guessing not.

Not one single bit.

[Harmsway]

Did any of the "Les Spectres de Pierre" backstory make the final cut? I'm guessing not.

Not one single bit.

Shame. That stuff was pretty great.

[Guy Haines]

Spoiler

Sounds to me that he was born Oberhauser, as that's what Bond knew him as a boy. He then took his mother's name Blofeld when he killed his father.

Spoiler

Quite possible, either that or he was born Blofeld, then his mother re-married to Oberhauser, the son changing his name to his step father's, and on killing him Franz became Ernst. Quite apart from wanting to reclaim his mother's family name, he'd need a new identity, having faked his own death as well as arranging his father/step father's real death. All of this "mum or dad" taking of sides reminds me a bit of a fairly recent Bond film, namely TWINE - Elektra having her dad assassinated so she could claim the oil inheritance her father had "stolen" from her mother's family. I think there was scope within SPECTRE for a little more explanation as to why Blofeld killed Hannes Oberhauser. Was it because of a "cuckoo in the nest"? Or had Hannes discovered a chache of Nazi gold which Franz coveted and wanted for himself? (A nod there towards the Octopussy short story) That might explain how Blofeld financed his first ventures. Should this villain return - highly likely I think, whoever plays him - we may find out more.

Spoiler

Sounds to me that he was born Oberhauser, as that's what Bond knew him as a boy. He then took his mother's name Blofeld when he killed his father.

That's how it came across to me, too. What I don't understand, though -

Spoiler

all that talk of Bond being a 'cuckoo'; is Oberhauser saying it's all Bond's fault that he killed his father, changed his name to ESB and invented SPECTRE?

Spoiler

Although we aren't told, I think there was more to it than jealousy and quite possibly Bond wasn't the trigger for all that followed. I've suggested a possible, Fleming based explanation in my previous spoiler comment - that Blofeld didn't really have "adopted sibling rivalry" issues, he was just an evil, greedy little so-and-so.

 
I really wish

Spoiler

they had added the Nazi gold stash into Blofeld's speech. It would've been a wonderful nod to the novels and, as you say, easily explain how Blofeld got his start in the criminal underworld.

Me too. But 

Spoiler

there's a chance that they're still going to use it. Everything is open for a Blofeld return and a lengthy speech about his past. But I doubt the theory that Hannes was his only step-father. This wouldn't have resulted in such strong feelings that made Franz kill him. The "cuckoo" stole his real father, and what was jealousy at first turned into hatred towards both of them.

Spoiler

If we do get a sequel in Bond 25 - and it looks quite possible - I hope we get from ESB (1) a bit more detail about what happened to Hannes - Bond doing some serious needling might cause that. Did it, as I've suggested above involve a secret cache of Nazi gold that Franz coveted? (2) more detail about SPECTRE itself - is it still an acronym or not? Is there some other significance to it? (3) some kind of grand speech similar to the one delivered in the novel YOLT in which ESB seeks to justify his crimes and those of his associates since the Craig-Bond era began.