68 replies to this topic

[seawolfnyy]

I've never assumed Raoul Silva had an affiliation with anybody. The lone gunman (aside from faceless hire-ons, of course). 

I never really did either. That said, I could see him "working" or more appopriately using SPECTRE's resources to achieve his own ends. At most, he would be a rogue agent of SPECTRE rather than a major player, but I see him as a solo act. I agree with most that Skyfall could really (and I felt this way prior to Skyfall's release) be the Goldfinger of this era.

[tdalton]

 

 

 

Silva didn't explain how he escaped from the chinese prison. Maybe SPECTRE could have helped him and in exchange he would have done some missions for the SPECTRE

I'm afraid there are many things that weren't explained in Skyfall because of a weak screenplay, not some big ideas, unfortunately.
But who knows what will they come up with this time?

 

Did we watch the same movie?

 

I'm sorry, seawolfnyy, but IMO there were to many plot holes in SF for me to take the movie seriously. 

But that's me. 

 

 

It's not just you.

 

There are far too many plot holes and gaps in logic in Skyfall for it to be hailed as the classic that many want to anoint it as.

[seawolfnyy]

 

 

 

Silva didn't explain how he escaped from the chinese prison. Maybe SPECTRE could have helped him and in exchange he would have done some missions for the SPECTRE

I'm afraid there are many things that weren't explained in Skyfall because of a weak screenplay, not some big ideas, unfortunately.
But who knows what will they come up with this time?

 

Did we watch the same movie?

 

I'm sorry, seawolfnyy, but IMO there were to many plot holes in SF for me to take the movie seriously. 

But that's me. 

 

Your opinion, that's fine. But you can say that about any movie. For what it's worth, I thought Skyfall was actually far more concise than most other films, especially the Bond films. I never thought it important that they tell us how Silva escapes. It wasn't necessary for the plot. But that's my opinion.

[Marcin]

 

I could see that as well.  They definitely have a lot of things to answer for over the course of the last three films.  One scene I wouldn't mind seeing would be Q being hauled in front of some sort of tribunal to answer for his gross incompetence in Skyfall.

 

Oh yes, plesae  . 

Along with the guy who allowed NATO's agents datas (the most top secret files of any intelligece agency) to be stored on some notebook in Turkey.

[007jamesbond]

Silva escape from Chinese prison don't need to explain as no one complain about Alex getting shot in GE didn't explain how he survive didn't he get shot in the freaking head? 

[seawolfnyy]

Silva escape from Chinese prison don't need to explain as no one complain about Alex getting shot in GE didn't explain how he survive didn't he get shot in the freaking head? 

Ourumov wasn't using blanks?

[tdalton]

Or he could have deliberately missed to the side of Trevelyan's head, with Trevelyan playing dead to sell it to Bond.

[007jamesbond]

 

Silva escape from Chinese prison don't need to explain as no one complain about Alex getting shot in GE didn't explain how he survive didn't he get shot in the freaking head? 

Ourumov wasn't using blanks?

 

 

Audience won't know plus they never show how he escape since the entire place did blow up! 

[Marcin]

Your opinion, that's fine. But you can say that about any movie. For what it's worth, I thought Skyfall was actually far more concise than most other films, especially the Bond films. I never thought it important that they tell us how Silva escapes. It wasn't necessary for the plot. But that's my opinion.

 

I understand, however have to disagree with you on this.. sorry.

And yes, Silva's escape form Chineese prision was insignificant, but, for example, his escape form SIS custody is the best (worst?) example of sloppiness or laziness of screenwriters / Mendes. They knew it's not possible, but it was significant for the plot so they just.. skipped it. For me it was nothing more but lack of respect for the audience.

Oh, and I know there are no movies without plot holes, not to mention Bond films. But Skyfall's style and manner (again, in my humble opinion) implied that is was something more. It failed.

But hey, let's hope SPECTE will satisfy both of us.

Edited by Marcin, 10 December 2014 - 09:59 PM.

[seawolfnyy]

 

Your opinion, that's fine. But you can say that about any movie. For what it's worth, I thought Skyfall was actually far more concise than most other films, especially the Bond films. I never thought it important that they tell us how Silva escapes. It wasn't necessary for the plot. But that's my opinion.

 

I understand, however have to disagree with you on this.. sorry.

And yes, Silva's escape form Chineese prision was insignificant, but, for example, his escape form SIS custody is the best (worst?) example of sloppiness or laziness of screenwriters / Mendes. They knew it's not possible, but it was significant for the plot so they just.. skipped it. For me it was nothing more but lack of respect for the audience.

Oh, and I know there are no movies without plot holes, not to mention Bond films. But Skyfall's style and manner (again, in my humble opinion) implied that is was something more. It failed.

But hey, let's hope SPECTE will satisfy both of us.

 

Yea, I think we're getting off topic. I liked Skyfall, you didn't. Doesn't matter. I agree too, let's hope SPECTRE tops Skyfall in every way. Regardless of our feelings towards Skyfall.

[Marcin]

 

Yea, I think we're getting off topic. I liked Skyfall, you didn't. Doesn't matter. I agree too, let's hope SPECTRE tops Skyfall in every way. Regardless of our feelings towards Skyfall.

Agreed. Let's.

Less that one year to go! Quite exciting, I must say. I love this part of production - all those assumptions and speculations, putting the pieces together.

Edited by Marcin, 10 December 2014 - 10:59 PM.

[Orion]

 

Silva escape from Chinese prison don't need to explain as no one complain about Alex getting shot in GE didn't explain how he survive didn't he get shot in the freaking head? 

Ourumov wasn't using blanks?

 

He shoots one of his own soldiers with the gun a few seconds later showing the gun was properly loaded.

[The Shark]

He could've switched pistols.

[seawolfnyy]

 

 

Silva escape from Chinese prison don't need to explain as no one complain about Alex getting shot in GE didn't explain how he survive didn't he get shot in the freaking head? 

Ourumov wasn't using blanks?

 

He shoots one of his own soldiers with the gun a few seconds later showing the gun was properly loaded.

 

 

 

He could've switched pistols.

Or it could've been that only the first bullet was a blank.

[RMc2]

Or the soldier he 'shot' was in on the gag... for the audience's benefit, of course

[Trevelyan 006]

Silva escape from Chinese prison don't need to explain as no one complain about Alex getting shot in GE didn't explain how he survive didn't he get shot in the freaking head? 

ALEX!? A-L-E-X!? I am very disappointed in you... 

 

Or it could've been that only the first bullet was a blank.

 

That was always my understanding. After all, the whole situation was planned for. The first bullet being a blank  seems to be the most logical explanation...

Edited by Trevelyan 006, 17 December 2014 - 09:49 PM.

[Guy Haines]

Getting back to this "Quantum/SPECTRE" link - one thing about the Quantum schemes was they seemed to be about investment and financial returns - bankrolling enterprises like Le Chiffre's and projects like the deliberate creation of drought in Bolivia. And the top membership seemed outwardly respectable - big business, intelligence and political types.

 

Which makes me wonder if Quantum wasn't a separate group at all, but the private investment bank of SPECTRE, and that Mr White was the trouble-shooter (Literally in the case of Le Chiffre!) who kept the operation in line. Of course the Quantum board might not all know that their main - probably only - client was SPECTRE. That organisation used endless "cut outs" in the novel Thunderball, so M tells Bond, to keep its identity secret when dealing with the West.

 

That seems to me to be a plausible link, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if we're told that in Spectre. (Probably by Mr White himself)

[Mr. Arlington Beech]

I just saw SPECTRE (in its premiere in my country)...... And I have to admit that I didn't completely understand What is Quantum to SPECTRE? Is it a division of SPECTRE or what? Perhaps, I didn’t pay enough attention on this, in my first viewing on the film.

[byline]

My impression was that Quantum was, as you say, a division of Spectre. Spectre is the overarching corporation, so to speak, Quantum a company within that corporation.

[Guy Haines]

Its glossed over, isn't it? A brief bit in which Q works out that Quantum, and others, is linked to SPECTRE, or rather, its leader. Similarly what the roles of the others linked to SPECTRE are isn't made clear. Deliberately, I suspect (there are notes in the "SPECTRE" edition of Empire magazine which go into greater detail but none of this comes out in the film)

Spoiler

even Mr White's reason for disaffection from SPECTRE, beyond the revelation that he disobeyed Blofeld because of concerns about the organisation's projects - the reference to "women, children" hints that he didn't like the people trafficking/white slavery scheme reported on in the boardroom - even that is never fully explained

[Vauxhall]

I thought Mr White's comments referred to the indiscriminate bombings to force through the Nine Eyes plan, but the trafficking idea would also work. Never thought of that.

[Guy Haines]

I thought Mr White's comments referred to the indiscriminate bombings to force through the Nine Eyes plan, but the trafficking idea would also work. Never thought of that.

And I never thought of what you thought of! ;-) However Mr White was quite happy to introduce the "banker to terrorists" at the start of CR, so I assumed terrorism was not something that upset him. Then again, indiscriminate terrorism.... could be. Then there's the attempt to control the legitimate drugs market with adulterated stuff and the trafficking racket. All adds up to a SPECTRE syndicate which is downright down and dirty. Maybe there were just some things White couldn't stomach.

[Mr. Arlington Beech]

Yes, that's my main complain about SP. They needed at least, more dialogues to develop or explains some motivations of the characters (i.e. Mr White's change of mind). But overall, it's a good Bond movie, better- and more fun- than SF, and of course than QOS.

[Gobi-1]

I was hoping the film would go into a bit more detail about how all the pieces and people fit into the Spectre hierarchy but it was glossed over. Perhaps Bond 25 will help clear up these matters.

[Guy Haines]

I was hoping the film would go into a bit more detail about how all the pieces and people fit into the Spectre hierarchy but it was glossed over. Perhaps Bond 25 will help clear up these matters.

If Blofeld returns in 25 - quite possible I think - maybe we will get not only the "Garden Of Death" or similar, but also the great "mea culpa" from ESB in which he seeks to justify his past crimes - like his great justification speech to Bond in the novel You Only Live Twice.

[rubixcub]

The best I could figure was that, based on Mr. White's conversation, as the aims transformed and the limits were removed, so to did the organization transform, perhaps into a separate entity altogether.  In other words, SPECTRE splintering off from & consuming Quantum would've been the result of conflicting ideologies & internal politics.

 

That's the best I can piece it together, but a line or two to cement it would've been nice.

 

Dave

[seawolfnyy]

I think it's quite possible to think that Quantum was more of SPECTRE round 1. Once they were discovered, everything that MI6 had found out was pinned on Quantum and they were hung out to dry. Recall that CR and QoS take place in 2006 and Skyfall and Spectre take place several years later. My guess is that in the intervening six years (or however many, I don't believe Skyfall or Spectre ever specifically state what year they take place) the organization reorganized itself as Spectre and reemerged as a more tight-knit, focused entity.

 

Or it's literally that Quantum was an underling of Spectre and disbanded following the Bolivia affair. Although it does appear that EON has done their best to basically write Quantum of Solace out of existence. Greene gets one brief mention, but neither he, nor Fields, are shown in the photos when Bond is moving through the wrecked Vauxhall building.

[Double-Oh Agent]

My impression was that Quantum was, as you say, a division of Spectre. Spectre is the overarching corporation, so to speak, Quantum a company within that corporation.

Your impression is correct. I missed it on first viewing but caught it the second time.

[Trevelyan 006]

Perhaps, I am way off and thinking too deeply, but here is some speculation on how I believe Quantum relates to SPECTRE and how Mr. White ties into both:

 

To be clear, I don't see Quantum as a stand-alone organization. References made to a group within Quantum of Solace and Casino Royale allude to an organization, never naming Quantum to be the name of the organization specifically. Ex. "WE have people everywhere." "WE'RE on the other side..." Not, "Quantum has people everywhere..." etc. I believe Quantum was a operation being carried out. One can assume the actual organization behind the Quantum agenda was never revealed (as it will now be revealed that it was SPECTRE overseeing the project all along).

 

- As a side note, I believe "The Tiara Project" was just the first phase of several projects within the Quantum agenda. With more projects lined up after the completion of the first phase, only then would the entire Quantum agenda be satisfied and considered a success. 

 

With that all that explained, as I said, I now see Quantum as a financial operation being executed by SPECTRE, with White as the hands-on SPECTRE agent assigned to oversee the project and make sure all goes according to plan. This would then make White the highest ranking member of SPECTRE we've seen to date (without even knowing it). 

[x007AceOfSpades]

Or it's literally that Quantum was an underling of Spectre and disbanded following the Bolivia affair. Although it does appear that EON has done their best to basically write Quantum of Solace out of existence. Greene gets one brief mention, but neither he, nor Fields, are shown in the photos when Bond is moving through the wrecked Vauxhall building.

I'm not a fan of Quantum of Solace by any means, but I was a little irritated on how there was virtually no mention of Fields, whose death is due to Bond bringing her on his little revenge mission. They did mention Greene, but as you said briefly. Found it funny how Greene and Fields weren't part of the titles sequence nor the wrecked Vauxhall building either.