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How I Believe SPECTRE and Quantum Tie Together.


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#1 Trevelyan 006

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Posted 06 December 2014 - 08:33 AM

Perhaps, I am way off and thinking too deeply, but here is some speculation on how I believe Quantum relates to SPECTRE and how Mr. White ties into both:

 

To be clear, I don't see Quantum as a stand-alone organization. References made to a group within Quantum of Solace and Casino Royale allude to an organization, never naming Quantum to be the name of the organization specifically. Ex. "WE have people everywhere." "WE'RE on the other side..." Not, "Quantum has people everywhere..." etc. I believe Quantum was a operation being carried out. One can assume the actual organization behind the Quantum agenda was never revealed (as it will now be revealed that it was SPECTRE overseeing the project all along).

 

- As a side note, I believe "The Tiara Project" was just the first phase of several projects within the Quantum agenda. With more projects lined up after the completion of the first phase, only then would the entire Quantum agenda be satisfied and considered a success. 

 

With that all that explained, as I said, I now see Quantum as a financial operation being executed by SPECTRE, with White as the hands-on SPECTRE agent assigned to oversee the project and make sure all goes according to plan. This would then make White the highest ranking member of SPECTRE we've seen to date (without even knowing it). After the Quantum agenda fails before the first phase could be completed, Mr. White covered the failure up by killing Le Chiffre, retrieving the briefcase of funds back and having Greene killed in the desert before the rest of SPECTRE could catch on at the end of Quantum of Solace. He continues to update SPECTRE with bogus information, putting along with the assignment claiming that it is taking far longer than originally projected. I assume SPECTRE found out about the failure during the events of Skyfall and White will therefore resurface and be punished in the upcoming film.

 

SPECULATION ON HOW EVENTS WILL PLAY OUT: Before he is killed by SPECTRE though, White promises Bond's death. He goes out and has a 00/MI6 Agent killed (Andrew Scott's character) and tries to pass it off for Bond (as White is the only SPECTRE man to have had face-to-face encounters with him). Satisfied with Bond dead and the Quantum chapter closed, SPECTRE continues on with a larger plot only Bond becomes a problem again. A meeting between SPECTRE members is called and Blofeld begins to put pressure on the agent who is responsible for their current phase. Everybody believes this agent is about to be electrocuted in his chair until White's starts to electrocute him. Blofeld explains that it is not this agents fault, but is White's for lying about Bond's existence and the overall failure of the Quantum agenda. Settled, SPECTRE continues on to get even with Bond for interfering in their affairs and costing them grief, time and money... ENTER the death of Bond's loved one at the end of the film and the arc finish in the next. 

 


Edited by Trevelyan 006, 06 December 2014 - 08:35 AM.


#2 007jamesbond

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Posted 06 December 2014 - 08:41 AM

I treat Quantum similar to SMERSH where it is more of a profit/money making organization than terrorism and this would follow the Fleming novel where former members of SMERSH/Quantum(in this timeline) join SPECTRE being financial support of the organization. SPECTRE exist before event of Skyfall in the shadow but appears because they want world domination or whatever they plan is 



#3 jaguar007

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Posted 06 December 2014 - 08:50 AM

I actually have the feeling that Quantum will not be revisited in the series.



#4 Orion

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Posted 06 December 2014 - 09:58 AM

Quantum does literally mean a small part...



#5 stromberg

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Posted 06 December 2014 - 11:29 AM

Deleted the "Mr White" bit from the thread title. Some people may consider it a spoiler.

 

Take it as a reminder to avoid spoilers in thread titles (even in the spoiler forum, as they appear on the "Today's post" list).



#6 Marcin

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Posted 06 December 2014 - 12:57 PM

I hope it'll turn out that Quantum is only SPECTRE's agenda. One of many. 



#7 sharpshooter

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Posted 06 December 2014 - 12:59 PM

I hope it'll turn out that Quantum is only SPECTRE's agenda. One of many. 

I'm warming up to this concept, that Quantum is a branch of SPECTRE and not a rival which is demolished. 



#8 AgenttiNollaNollaSeitsemän

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Posted 06 December 2014 - 01:10 PM

I think that Quantum collapsed after Greene had spilled the beans to Bond, and Mr. White has joined this new organization SPECTRE - Fleming's SPECTRE was composed of former members of SMERSH, Gestapo, Unione Corse, etc. so I believe the reimagined SPECTRE follows that formula, having former Quantum, KGB, etc. members within their ranks. 



#9 RMc2

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Posted 07 December 2014 - 11:30 PM

I like a lot of your ideas, Trevelyan :)

 

It never occurred to me that Quantum is anything other than an organisation to either become or be absorbed or be destroyed by SPECTRE. But thinking about it, I don't recall any moment in QoS where it's confirmed that Quantum is an organisation - all we get is Greene's declaration to Bond at the end: "I told you everything you wanted to know about Quantum." So there's definitely room for SPECTRE to retcon Quantum into an operation or subsidiary of SPECTRE.

 

But I do think they'll probably recognise Quantum as an organisation. In that case, I'm interested to see how they explain the fact it's been 7 years since Bond exposed Quantum and pretty much let it be...

 

 

Also, I'm pretty sure all the rumours, the synopsis and comments at last week's announcement have confirmed that Andrew Scott's Denbigh is a character within the Ministry who is causing problems for M in a bureaucratic sense. He's unlikely to be a 00 who White kills as a Bond decoy.



#10 Trevelyan 006

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Posted 08 December 2014 - 04:23 AM

I like a lot of your ideas, Trevelyan :)

 

It never occurred to me that Quantum is anything other than an organisation to either become or be absorbed or be destroyed by SPECTRE. But thinking about it, I don't recall any moment in QoS where it's confirmed that Quantum is an organisation - all we get is Greene's declaration to Bond at the end: "I told you everything you wanted to know about Quantum." So there's definitely room for SPECTRE to retcon Quantum into an operation or subsidiary of SPECTRE.

 

But I do think they'll probably recognise Quantum as an organisation. In that case, I'm interested to see how they explain the fact it's been 7 years since Bond exposed Quantum and pretty much let it be...

Appreciation is always welcome, mate!

 

Anyway, I completely agree. These are the exact points that made me think... Never a direct mention of Quantum being the organization (from what I can recall)? One is rightful to assume that, perhaps that was conscious choice...

 

Also, I'm pretty sure all the rumours, the synopsis and comments at last week's announcement have confirmed that Andrew Scott's Denbigh is a character within the Ministry who is causing problems for M in a bureaucratic sense. He's unlikely to be a 00 who White kills as a Bond decoy.

Again, I agree. I don't believe I was fully savvy on the rumor at the time of posting (so thank you for the clarification). the rumor sounds far more likely to what we'll see with Scott's character in SPECTRE. I simply threw my suggestion for his character in there, more or less, as a "what if they went in this direction" idea.


Edited by Trevelyan 006, 08 December 2014 - 04:24 AM.


#11 stamper

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Posted 08 December 2014 - 08:10 PM

My feeling is that Skyfall events also ties into SPECTRE;



#12 blueman

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Posted 08 December 2014 - 08:48 PM

Be lovely to see threads from all three Craig films come together in this one.  Kinda what SPECTRE does, bring threads/tendrils together...



#13 Harmsway

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Posted 08 December 2014 - 09:01 PM

My feeling is that Skyfall events also ties into SPECTRE;

Fiennes said that it would.

#14 Guy Haines

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Posted 09 December 2014 - 08:20 AM

Quantum absorbed into SPECTRE - or was a project controlled by SPECTRE? Or a cover name - Bond was fighting SPECTRE from day one? And the Skyfall link - Silva, if not directly employed by SPECTRE, was secretly supported and financed by them as a means to and end - namely the crippling of MI6 and the death of Judi Dench's M in retaliation for the collapse of Quantum and its plots? I can see how the links could be established - or it could be a thread we haven't even considered.



#15 seawolfnyy

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Posted 09 December 2014 - 11:17 PM

I could see Silva either being a (rogue) SPECTRE asset or being directly financed by them. It would explain all the goons he had. However, at the same time, he was the world's greatest hacker so I'm sure he wouldn't need any money at all. He could just steal anything he needed with his computer. I'm not entirely convinced Silva had anything to do with SPECTRE. He may have known about them and MI6 could have discovered the existence of SPECTRE from Silva's files, but I think that would be the extent of Silva's interactions with SPECTRE.

 

I think the bigger impact that Skyfall's events will have on SPECTRE and the next few films has more to do with the security breaches and M's death. I beileve the official synopsis hints at Mallory (sorry, M) continuing to fight political battles and dealing with the fallout from the Silva affair. Then with the emergence of SPECTRE, the competence of MI6 comes further into question as after the Quantum mess, how did MI6 allow another terrorist organization to form and flourish.



#16 Call Billy Bob

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Posted 10 December 2014 - 12:58 AM

I could see Silva either being a (rogue) SPECTRE asset or being directly financed by them.

This would be my most likely scenario as well.



#17 tdalton

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Posted 10 December 2014 - 01:17 AM

Silva isn't a SPECTRE operative.  It seems pretty clear in Skyfall that he's someone who works alone, choosing his own "missions" and most likely makes all of his money through his various hacking activities.



#18 Vauxhall

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Posted 10 December 2014 - 01:19 AM

Silva isn't a SPECTRE operative.  It seems pretty clear in Skyfall that he's someone who works alone, choosing his own "missions" and most likely makes all of his money through his various hacking activities.

 

Absolutely. I'd be fairly concerned if they tried to shoehorn Silva into the new SPECTRE storyline. That worked effectively enough as a standalone mission.



#19 sharpshooter

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Posted 10 December 2014 - 02:44 AM

Yeah, they shouldn't do that. Connect back to CR/QoS by all means, but leave Skyfall as this series' Goldfinger.



#20 tdalton

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Posted 10 December 2014 - 04:23 AM

Yeah, they shouldn't do that. Connect back to CR/QoS by all means, but leave Skyfall as this series' Goldfinger.

 

Absolutely.  Skyfall should be left alone in terms of SPECTRE trying to connect back to it.  I'm sure there will be some more subtle connections, such as the political blowback that M might have to face over the previous M's death and whatnot, but Silva and his operations and organization should be left entirely separate from SPECTRE.  There's nothing in Skyfall to suggest that Silva was working for anyone other than himself, in fact there's plenty of evidence to support that that's exactly what was going on, and any attempt to co-opt Silva into SPECTRE will, at best, seem extremely forced.


Edited by tdalton, 10 December 2014 - 04:25 AM.


#21 sharpshooter

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Posted 10 December 2014 - 04:34 AM

Indeed. And I like that sort of pacing, to be honest. Bond takes on a mysterious force in his first two films and then they slink away in his third. Just when he thinks it's cased closed - "should be routine here on out", they pop up again. But more of a serious threat than ever before.


Edited by sharpshooter, 10 December 2014 - 04:36 AM.


#22 SkyfallCraig

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Posted 10 December 2014 - 09:50 AM

Silva didn't explain how he escaped from the chinese prison. Maybe SPECTRE could have helped him and in exchange he would have done some missions for the SPECTRE

#23 Marcin

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Posted 10 December 2014 - 06:36 PM

Silva didn't explain how he escaped from the chinese prison. Maybe SPECTRE could have helped him and in exchange he would have done some missions for the SPECTRE

I'm afraid there are many things that weren't explained in Skyfall because of a weak screenplay, not some big ideas, unfortunately.
But who knows what will they come up with this time?

Edited by Marcin, 10 December 2014 - 06:37 PM.


#24 tdalton

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Posted 10 December 2014 - 07:56 PM

 

Silva didn't explain how he escaped from the chinese prison. Maybe SPECTRE could have helped him and in exchange he would have done some missions for the SPECTRE

I'm afraid there are many things that weren't explained in Skyfall because of a weak screenplay, not some big ideas, unfortunately.
But who knows what will they come up with this time?

 

 

Agreed.

 

Mendes and company really shouldn't go back into Skyfall and fill in the gaps that exist in that film in order to make it tie into SPECTRE.  It'll almost certainly ring rather hollow.

 

The reality is is that SPECTRE didn't have much, if anything at all, to do with the events of Skyfall.  There's no evidence within the film to suggest that a larger organization is working behind Silva, but rather there's a rather compelling case that he is indeed working very much on his own.



#25 Guy Haines

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Posted 10 December 2014 - 08:11 PM

If the link isn't Silva - and on reflection it probably isn't, unless he was getting some very remote backing from SPECTRE without even realising it - then might it be the state of the fictional MI6? In CR Bond executes an MI6 station chief traitor at the very start of the film. In QoS M's own bodyguard tries to kill her. In SF a disk drive with very sensitive information goes missing.

 

We also had, of course, Vesper Lynd, an agent of the British Treasury, being blackmailed to turn traitor. And a confidential advisor to the UK PM being identified as a senior member of Quantum. And in the new film the new M has to take on elements questioning the very relevance of MI6.

 

Might this story be as much about an enemy within as an enemy without?



#26 seawolfnyy

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Posted 10 December 2014 - 08:57 PM

 

Silva didn't explain how he escaped from the chinese prison. Maybe SPECTRE could have helped him and in exchange he would have done some missions for the SPECTRE

I'm afraid there are many things that weren't explained in Skyfall because of a weak screenplay, not some big ideas, unfortunately.
But who knows what will they come up with this time?

 

Did we watch the same movie?



#27 Marcin

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Posted 10 December 2014 - 09:15 PM

Mendes and company really shouldn't go back into Skyfall and fill in the gaps that exist in that film in order to make it tie into SPECTRE.  It'll almost certainly ring rather hollow.

 

 

The reality is is that SPECTRE didn't have much, if anything at all, to do with the events of Skyfall.  There's no evidence within the film to suggest that a larger organization is working behind Silva, but rather there's a rather compelling case that he is indeed working very much on his own.

 

 

Agreed as well, tdalton.

Such an attempt would probably.. no, definitely be to farfetched. 

But I like the idea of Guy Haines'. The connection is SIS's incompetence and setbacks over the last few years. In the real world any intelligence service would be in a deep trouble with all those failures. 



#28 tdalton

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Posted 10 December 2014 - 09:18 PM

 

Mendes and company really shouldn't go back into Skyfall and fill in the gaps that exist in that film in order to make it tie into SPECTRE.  It'll almost certainly ring rather hollow.

 

 

The reality is is that SPECTRE didn't have much, if anything at all, to do with the events of Skyfall.  There's no evidence within the film to suggest that a larger organization is working behind Silva, but rather there's a rather compelling case that he is indeed working very much on his own.

 

 

Agreed as well, tdalton.

Such an attempt would probably.. no, definitely be to farfetched. 

But I like the idea of Guy Haines'. The connection is SIS's incompetence and setbacks over the last few years. In the real world any intelligence service would be in a deep trouble with all those failures. 

 

 

I could see that as well.  They definitely have a lot of things to answer for over the course of the last three films.  One scene I wouldn't mind seeing would be Q being hauled in front of some sort of tribunal to answer for his gross incompetence in Skyfall.



#29 Trevelyan 006

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Posted 10 December 2014 - 09:21 PM

I've never assumed Raoul Silva had an affiliation with anybody. The lone gunman (aside from faceless hire-ons, of course). 



#30 Marcin

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Posted 10 December 2014 - 09:27 PM

 

 

Silva didn't explain how he escaped from the chinese prison. Maybe SPECTRE could have helped him and in exchange he would have done some missions for the SPECTRE

I'm afraid there are many things that weren't explained in Skyfall because of a weak screenplay, not some big ideas, unfortunately.
But who knows what will they come up with this time?

 

Did we watch the same movie?

 

I'm sorry, seawolfnyy, but IMO there were to many plot holes in SF for me to take the movie seriously. 

But that's me.