289 replies to this topic

[Marcin]

Now that I think about it, what kind of an ending what that be for the Craig era? Bond kills Blofeld with his bare hands and is presumed KIA by his superiors after he suffers amnesia escaping from the Castle of Death. Then in the PTS for Bond 26, he shows up and attempts to assassinate M....

From certain point of view that would be very interesting. But than again, we've seen something like that in recent films. M was killed in Skyfall, nearly died in TWINE and QoS. Bond presumed dead in SF.
That plot was intriguing in Fleming novels because it was fresh, unexpected.
I'm not sure if it'd work with movies at this point. Not yet at least. In my humble opinion, of course.
And let's not forget that in The Man With The Golden Gun novel Bond was brainwashed by Soviet Union. There is no such adversary to Great Britain at the moment. Who would have the motivation (and means!) to execute this plan? Assuming we don't want to see another ex-agent trying to kill the chief of SIS.

[seawolfnyy]

 

And let's not forget that in The Man With The Golden Gun novel Bond was brainwashed by Soviet Union. There is no such adversary to Great Britain at the moment. Who would have the motivation (and means!) to execute this plan? Assuming we don't want to see another ex-agent trying to kill the chief of SIS.

 

Well, it could very well be loyal SPECTRE agents that are still around post-Blofeld. Or North Korea. Or China. Or Russia. There are many different ways that that storyline could easily be adapted to the 21st century.

[stromberg]

Do you guy really believe Waltz will play Blofeld or that Blofeld will be the film's villain?

If so, I've got some swamp land I can sell you...

For those of you who have short memories, three years ago around this time fan forums were all abuzz that Ralph Fiennes or Michael Sheen were going to play... Blofeld. Don't believe me? Do a google search. Oh yeah, and Javier Bardem was going to be a rebooted Jaws. He had the looks, so it was said.

I'll *almost* guarantee you that Blofeld will NOT be in this film.

Bringing back Blofeld is a dumb move. A fan-boy dumb move. Only fan-boys want it.

 

Some years ago, there were many people who *almost* guaranteed (even days before Craig was announced as new Bond) that Brosnan would be in Bond 21. Many *almost* guaranteed that the casting of Craig would be the death of the franchise (some still believe this actually happened). Others *almost* bet their lives that Skyfall would never make it past the 600 million bucks. To me, the rumor of an invisible Aston Martin in Bond 20 was absolute nonsense and I was sure it won't happen.

 

It's a bit unfair to defame everyone who endorses the idea of a Blofeld return or plays around with it as "stupid fan-boy", just because you happen to not like it. Dismount your high horse and don't forget you once were a "stupid fan-boy", too (don't say you weren't - we all were  ). A Blofeld return will happen one day, maybe not in this one and not in the next one, but it's inevitable. 

 

This is my fifth Bond movie "on the news front" and I've learned (the hard way) how easily false rumors can be produced and spread purposely. But even before that, I've learned not to believe anything that isn't officially confirmed or so blatantly obvious that it can't be denied. And I, for one, can't see anything that actually confirms that Waltz will even be in this one, let alone be Blofeld. But it's less than two weeks from the press conference, the traditional time of speculation. Let people have their fun.

[DaveBond21]

 

I personally hope he isn't Blofeld, or indeed any recurring past villain.  The expectation will be bloody overwhelmingly high, and there will bound to be disappointment.

 

Rather he creates his own fresh villain - if in fact he is a villain.

 

I also really hope it's not Blofeld because I would love to see a new villain because that's always nice. If he does turn out to be Blofeld, I won't be too upset because I do love him in pretty much any role or movie that he is in.

 

If Blofeld is in this, I'd imagine that the bald head, scar and Nehru jacket will be gone. 

But could they resist the Turkish Angora Cat?

 

I could see a scenario where the cat turns up later in the film, once we've seen a fair bit of Blofeld without it.

 

 

I could totally picture him holding a cat.. if this happens.. I am going to be excited. Let's hope the cat comes back if Blofeld does.

 

If, when they release the trailer, we see a hand stroking a cat, it would be hard not to get excited.

[sharpshooter]

If Blofeld does return, I would not want him to be 'presumed dead.' That's what happened the first time because EON lost the rights to the character. Give him a proper ending. Hopefully at the Castle of Death.

I suppose it depends if EON want to bring the character back at some point down the line, after Waltz's presumed stint. Especially now they have the rights to the character. But if they adapted the Castle of Death, and gave the Blofeld character one glorious last hurrah, that's something I could also get on board with.

[Marcin]

Well, it could very well be loyal SPECTRE agents that are still around post-Blofeld. Or North Korea. Or China. Or Russia. There are many different ways that that storyline could easily be adapted to the 21st century.

 

 

I know that for a good screenwriter there are no insurmountable problems. Would it be plausible? Perhaps (though, let's be fair, even in 60's, when Fleming wrote The Man With The Golden Gun, conspiracy like this was rather unlikely - Soviet special services' attempt on the life of Chief of the SIS). 

Anyway, I'm not saying Blofeld should never be reintroduced. I'm simply saying.. not yet. 

[SecretAgentFan]

Not yet?  But when?

[S K Y F A L L]

If he plays Blofeld I wonder if Waltz will do it bald. I don't no why they wouldn't carry on that tradition, baldness is everyones enemy. Perhaps Bond 24 could end with Bond believing he killed Blofeld but only burning off his hair and scarring him.

 

If they brought back Blofeld would you rather:

 

a ) they kill him in Bond 24

b ) have him return for Bond 25, then kill him

c ) have him survive and let Bond 7 kill him in the PTS

d ) have him survive like in the past and forget about it like Quantum

d ) all the above?

[tdalton]

Not yet?  But when?

 

I think they'd be better off waiting for the next Bond to reintroduce Blofeld (if they feel they must bring him back).  If they bring back Blofeld, then, IMO, they have to bring back Tracy at some point as well.  It's far too soon at this point in a "rebooted" series for them to revisit the idea of Bond losing the love of his life, having just done so a couple of films ago with Vesper.  Waiting for Bond #7 would allow more time to pass between that film and Casino Royale and then ultimately allow for a somewhat faithful adaptation of You Only Live Twice to close out the Blofeld arc.

[Marcin]

Oh, I don't know SecretAgentFan . "Thunderball" was eight novel (ninth book) in Fleming's series. 

All I'm saying that if Blofeld appeared now, the rebooted storyline would (theoretically) go like this:

CR - Bond loses his beloved Vesper,

QOS - Bond seeks vengeance after Vesper's death

SF - M is killed,

Bond 24 - hypothetical beginning of "Blofeld Trylogy"

Bond 25 - Bond meets and loses Tracy

Bond 26 - Bond seeks vengeance after Tracy's death

Bond 27 - Bond tries to assasinate M (etc.).

My point is - there are awful lot of personal plots in this schedule But that's just me.

Of course I know EON doesn't necessarily have to use all of Fleming's story arch. It's just an assumption.

[mdileo007]

 

Not yet?  But when?

 

I think they'd be better off waiting for the next Bond to reintroduce Blofeld (if they feel they must bring him back).  If they bring back Blofeld, then, IMO, they have to bring back Tracy at some point as well.  It's far too soon at this point in a "rebooted" series for them to revisit the idea of Bond losing the love of his life, having just done so a couple of films ago with Vesper.  Waiting for Bond #7 would allow more time to pass between that film and Casino Royale and then ultimately allow for a somewhat faithful adaptation of You Only Live Twice to close out the Blofeld arc.

 

Since the re-boot, I have always advocated bringing back Tracy.  And I would prefer they do it with Craig.  As much as I love OHMSS, the film starred an amatuer actor (who did a credible job considering his inexperience).  But fans have always wondered how much better it would have been with Connery.  Well, now we have a great actor in the role of Bond who could truly do the story justice.  He started with Vesper.  Now I think it is the perfect time to introduce Tracy.  I understand your point about it being too soon in the re-boot, but Craig isn't getting any younger!.  Plus, look at it in real years -- the CR novel came out in 1953, the OHMSS novel in 1962 -- a 9 year difference.  CR the movie -- 2006, B24 -- 2015.  Same 9 year difference.

 

I'm not even advocating a straight remake of OHMSS -- perhaps more of a re-imagining.  You could do it without Piz Gloria, without the College of Arms, without the threat of a bio attack on the UK, etc.  Just take the basic Bond-Tracy-Draco-Blofeld story arc and insert it into a new storyline.  Use Fleming's working title of OHMSS -- "The Belles of Hell."

 

Then follow it up in B25 with a faithful (albeit updated) version of the YOLT novel and call it "Shatterhand."  You could end the Craig era with him on a raft.  Or bring in back for one more in B26.

 

I'd rather see the Tracy story with Craig, than have them do it down the line with Cavill or Hemsworth or who ever they might get for Bond 7

[tdalton]

It's just too soon to do On Her Majesty's Secret Service with Craig.  While the number of years between the novels Casino Royale and On Her Majesty's Secret Service and the films Casino Royale and Bond 24 might be similar, there were eight novels and a short story collection in that timespan, giving Fleming a chance to further develop the character of Bond while also providing enough narrative space between Bond's two loves, whereas we've only had two films, one of which was spent having Bond trying to get over Vesper.  Going back to Tracy this soon would be very much rehashing a plot point that EON just put to bed a film ago. 

Edited by tdalton, 26 November 2014 - 02:17 PM.

[mdileo007]

It's just too soon to do On Her Majesty's Secret Service with Craig.  While the number of years between the novels Casino Royale and On Her Majesty's Secret Service and the films Casino Royale and Bond 24 might be similar, there were eight novels and a short story collection in that timespan, giving Fleming a chance to further develop the character of Bond while also providing enough narrative space between Bond's two loves, whereas we've only had two films, one of which was spent having Bond trying to get over Vesper.  Going back to Tracy this soon would be very much rehashing a plot point that EON just put to bed a film ago. 

 

You make a fair point.  It would have been better to have a few more films between CR and a possible OHMSS remake.  I just think that to truly capture the power of the Tracy story, you should have the same actor who lost Vesper, lose Tracy.  It won't have the same emotional power if it is done by Bond 7.  And as Craig isn't getting any younger, I feel now is the time.  It wouldn't surprise me if the 2-story arc that Logan sold EON on is something similar to my earlier post.  Of course, we are told now that they did away with the 2-story arc.  So who know what the plan is.

 

Again, if you are going to bring Tracy back, I think it would be foolish to not do it with an actor of Craig's stature.  I can even see Seydoux as Tracy...

[tdalton]

EON isn't going to have Craig around long enough to do On Her Majesty's Secret Service anyway.  They'd have to set up Blofeld first in Bond 24 before having On Her Majesty's Secret Service.  That would be two films, after which Craig's tenure is most likely over, leaving the film in which we'd really need a great actor playing Bond, You Only Live Twice, to be put in the hands of a new Bond.  

 

There's no reason that, after the success that Craig has had, that they can't get a top-notch actor to take over for Craig when Bond 26 is released around 2021 or 2022.  EON will be able to cast the net rather wide in their search for Bond #7, and they'll have a good number of highly qualified actors willing to take over the part, wanting to be a part of a franchise that's produced a billion dollar film.  

[mdileo007]

EON isn't going to have Craig around long enough to do On Her Majesty's Secret Service anyway.  They'd have to set up Blofeld first in Bond 24 before having On Her Majesty's Secret Service.  That would be two films, after which Craig's tenure is most likely over, leaving the film in which we'd really need a great actor playing Bond, You Only Live Twice, to be put in the hands of a new Bond.  

 

There's no reason that, after the success that Craig has had, that they can't get a top-notch actor to take over for Craig when Bond 26 is released around 2021 or 2022.  EON will be able to cast the net rather wide in their search for Bond #7, and they'll have a good number of highly qualified actors willing to take over the part, wanting to be a part of a franchise that's produced a billion dollar film.  

 

I don't agree that they would have to set-up Blofeld in B24 before doing an OHMSS remake.  Blofeld appeared in one chapter of the TB novel, and is in one scene in the TB film, and 2 short scenes in the FRWL film.  Not much of a set-up, especially as we never see his face and Bond has no interaction with him.

 

However, if you are right, and that is their plan, that would mean that Walz has signed on to do 3 films right off the bat.  I would be very surprised if that is the case.  If he is playing Blofeld, I assume he signed on for one, perhaps 2 films.  If thats the case, then I would assume they would dive right into OHMSS.  Of course, Blofeld could be back with no intentions of bringing back Tracy, but I think you and I both agree -- why bring back Blofeld without Tracy?

 

Anyway, all speculation on our parts.  I guess we'll find out soon enough.  Its fun speculating though.

[Dustin]

[DaveBond21]

It's just too soon to do On Her Majesty's Secret Service with Craig.  While the number of years between the novels Casino Royale and On Her Majesty's Secret Service and the films Casino Royale and Bond 24 might be similar, there were eight novels and a short story collection in that timespan, giving Fleming a chance to further develop the character of Bond while also providing enough narrative space between Bond's two loves, whereas we've only had two films, one of which was spent having Bond trying to get over Vesper.  Going back to Tracy this soon would be very much rehashing a plot point that EON just put to bed a film ago. 

 

Who mentioned Tracy?

 

Bringing Blofeld back doesn't necessarily mean they are bringing any other characters back. In fact if they did bring Blofeld back for 2 movies, I think they would revert to new villains and new plots for the following movie.

[tdalton]

 

It's just too soon to do On Her Majesty's Secret Service with Craig.  While the number of years between the novels Casino Royale and On Her Majesty's Secret Service and the films Casino Royale and Bond 24 might be similar, there were eight novels and a short story collection in that timespan, giving Fleming a chance to further develop the character of Bond while also providing enough narrative space between Bond's two loves, whereas we've only had two films, one of which was spent having Bond trying to get over Vesper.  Going back to Tracy this soon would be very much rehashing a plot point that EON just put to bed a film ago. 

 

Who mentioned Tracy?

 

Bringing Blofeld back doesn't necessarily mean they are bringing any other characters back. In fact if they did bring Blofeld back for 2 movies, I think they would revert to new villains and new plots for the following movie.

 

 

Nobody said that they were bringing back Tracy, but if they're bringing back Blofeld, it would be a rather pointless exercise unless they also planned to bring back Tracy at some point down the line as well.  

 

If bringing back Blofeld isn't eventually going to lead to a faithful adaptation of You Only Live Twice, which would necessitate bringing Tracy (or a new character to stand in her place) at some point, then there's not really a worthwhile reason to bring Blofeld back when they could otherwise keep things fresh and create a brand new villain. 

[The Dove]

It is possible to have the character of Blofeld for a one off film with a completely independent story that has absolutely nothing to do with the whole YOLT-DAF-OHMSS events.. Just saying..Like I said before, kill off Blofeld in Bond 24 and then move on..

[tdalton]

I don't disagree that it's possible to have Blofeld in a standalone film and to have him killed off at the end of it.  I don't see there being any point in doing that, however.  If he's just going to be used in a standalone story rather than building towards the filming of a faithful You Only Live Twice, then why not just have him be an original character that we've never seen before?

[The Dove]

I get where you're coming from tdalton.. Waltz could still be NOT be playing Blofeld, we'll find out soon enough. I just think it's always great to have modern take on a character we haven't seen in over 30 years. Imagine The Dark Knight trilogy or the multiple Spider-Man, Superman and even the new Star Trek series if they hadn't re-hashed the classic villains that everyone loves.. Still though, I think that it's safe to say Waltz's Blofeld, or whoever he is, will have a MUCH better henchman in Dave Bautista than..uhh, Hans in YOLT...LOL!!

[Guy Haines]

Bringing back Blofeld doesn't necessarily mean the return of Tracy. Since 2006 we've been watching  in effect a new series of Bond films - albeit with one or two nods and winks towards the old ones. The one thing the returning or rebooted characters such as M, Q, Moneypenny, Tanner and of course Bond have in common is that they are recurring characters. Since he appeared in more than one book and film, the same could be said about Blofeld. Tracy is a character specific to one story, and unless a remake of OHMSS is contemplated, or she is transplanted into a new adventure and dies within it, I can't see her returning. (The producers have shown no inclination to remake past Bond movies so far.)

 

But, if Bond does seek his own kind of justice for the death of a loved one, he already has due cause in the death of Vesper Lynd. Suppose this "new" Blofeld is revealed to be the head of Quantum, now known as SPECTRE?  The whole issue of closure, which was supposedly dealt with in QoS, re-appears. And then we have this business of Franz Oberhauser, son of Hannes, Bond's old father figure. Should a Bond-v-Blofeld story overspill into Bond 25, Bond may have more than one reason to confront his nemesis - and , who knows, it may be in a castle in the middle of a garden of death.

[tdalton]

I don't see the idea of Bond going after Blofeld for revenge/closure with regards to either Vesper of Oberhauser as being  as impactful as going after him for vengeance for the death of his wife.  Bond's already dealt with, and gotten closure for, the death of Vesper.  He's moved on from that.  When (or more likely, if) we ever get to see Fleming's You Only Live Twice on the big screen, Bond needs to be a broken man, which isn't something I think that could be accomplished by revisiting Vesper or the introduction of Oberhauser.

[Marcin]

I totally agree with tdalton on this. Blofeld was Bond's greatest enemy not because he was the head of SPECTRE, but because he perpetrated the greatest tradegy in his life. Of course Blofeld may be reintroduced without bringing back Tracy's plot, but in that case I'd much rather see EON creating new original character. Blofeld would be nothing more than marketing trick -- he'd simply be just the next villain (with famed name). In my opinion, naturally.  

[SecretAgentFan]

I understand and share the opinion that bringing back Blofeld now would be difficult - if they wanted to finish the story arch with Craig and if Craig only did BOND 24 and 25.  Two films are not enough since Blofeld without Tracy and without revenge for Tracy would be a wasted opportunity.

 

But after re-introducing Moneypenny and Q it seems unavoidable that Blofeld would also be re-booted in the Craig era.

 

Maybe Craig will stay on longer?  If he did BOND 24, 25, 26 and 27 they could do this:

 

1)  Introduce Blofeld in Bond 24.

 

2)  Have him as the main villain in Bond 25.

 

3)  Do a OHMSS with him and Tracy.

 

4)  Do a YOLT with an older Craig/Bond and end it with the TMWTGG beginning.

 

After that they really could start fresh with a new actor.

 

Of course, this is all just a fanboy´s idea, trying to establish a Flemingian order in the Craig era.

 

Which might be already screwed up due to the long wait between QOS and SF and M´s death in SF.

 

Probably the best thing for EON would be to use elements of it but tell their own new story.

Edited by SecretAgentFan, 27 November 2014 - 11:24 AM.

[Guy Haines]

I think some of the views about Blofeld in Bond 24 are based on an assumption that everything has to point to a final vengeful battle between Bond and his enemy based around personal loss. And it may, whether through a rebooted Tracy or some final revenge for Vesper.

 

But we know that the film makers have played around with Ian Fleming's novels and characters in the past on film. Locations changed, plots altered, episodes taken from one novel and put in another film, characters changed. Blofeld may return in 24 - it's only may at the moment and the mass media and us may have been taken in well and truly. But if he is in Bond 24, who is to say that Bond's reasons for going after him will have anything to do with revenge in this new series of films we are following? Bringing back Tracy might happen, and I've speculated on revenge for Vesper. But it might just be that Blofeld, if indeed it is he, is just the "big bad" behind everything that has happened to Bond since CR 2006 - SF excepted, perhaps - and to finish off what started as "our organisation", was discovered to be Quantum, and might possibly be SPECTRE, Bond has to tackle Blofeld.

[Shrublands]

I was thinking, if Medes can take King Lear and transform him from being a prehistoric British king into a military dictator in an unnamed 20th century despotic state yet remain faithful to Shakespeare's text, who knows what a reimagined Blofeld and Spectre would look like.

 

Spectre could be a gigantic multinational company with a secret sinister agenda, with Blofeld as the CEO. I'm not saying that's what I'd expect, just that a number variations are possible. 

[Marcin]

Spectre could be a gigantic multinational company with a secret sinister agenda, with Blofeld as the CEO. I'm not saying that's what I'd expect, just that a number variations are possible. 

 

And that's an interesting idea!

[DaveBond21]

I totally agree with tdalton on this. Blofeld was Bond's greatest enemy not because he was the head of SPECTRE, but because he perpetrated the greatest tradegy in his life. Of course Blofeld may be reintroduced without bringing back Tracy's plot, but in that case I'd much rather see EON creating new original character. Blofeld would be nothing more than marketing trick -- he'd simply be just the next villain (with famed name). In my opinion, naturally.  

 

I disagree. Blofeld is best as just a voice in FRWL. Blofeld to me was always better when we couldn't see his face. The faces of his henchmen were priceless - they were utterly terrified of him - even someone as evil as Rosa Klebb.

 

Blofeld is not linked to YOLT to me. He is a classic Bond villain from a number of movies. If we do get Blofeld, I'd like it to be the FRWL one - except we'll see his face and it will be Christoph Waltz's.

[Guy Haines]

SPECTRE is described  in the book Thunderball as a "private enterprise for private profit" with Blofeld as chairman, so Shrublands' idea above isn't far off the mark. The version from the 1960s films seemed more like a fascistic criminal enterprise complete with black uniformed guards and so on.

 

Actually I see SPECTRE more as a hedge fund with criminal UHNW (ultra high net worth) individuals investing in various illegal schemes for a tidy profit (Again, the meeting of the SPECTRE top level members in the Thunderball chapter "Violet Scented Breath" is conducted almost like the boardroom meeting of a large company.)

I think that's what Quantum was envisaged as, to judge by that meeting in the Austrian opera house and the identities revealed afterwards.