1894 replies to this topic

[Odd Jobbies]

 

Some of the gags work: The DB5, guns blazing, is pulled off almost perfectly.

 

That was a gag?

 

 

I'm using the term loosely, but in essence the DB5 is only really in the story for a laugh - a nod and a wink to the past - so i'll stick with 'gag'.

[Odd Jobbies]

 

I agree with you on producers forcing stuff into your work - I know from first-hand experience.

 

But EON knows very well what they are doing, in contrast to many other producers around. And they gave Mendes and Craig a long leash on SKYFALL.

 

From what Mendes and Craig were telling the press, they definitely wanted to have some classic Bond moments in the film. The old couple´s remark in the tube sequence definitely was a nod to the Moore era (LALD was Craig´s and Mendes´ first Bond film experience) - and I can understand why you do not like it.

 

The DB5 with machine guns was, as I recall from the candid interview with Purvis & Wade, definitely a Mendes idea; P & W wanted it to be the car Bond won in CR.

 

 

Oh dear, you too! Producer are indeed to often the bane of one's life. Mu commiserations. Of course we need them to raise the cash (i'm hopeless at that bit), networking and all the other black arts. But ever since Michael Cimino broke the studio with Heaven's Gate they've had far too much power for what should really be the ultimate 'fixers' role, not a creative role. It's now infected British TV, hence the once great UK drama has become a very pale reflection of the HBO and even Showtime in the states.

 

Indeed you can't argue with the Producers of a franchise lasting 50 years - they know their beans - and they've shown great determination and taste in casting Craig. However, nobody's perfect and these horrid moments in SF are sign that they're as fallible as the rest of us.

 

The crying shame is that these indulgences in SF ruin what would otherwise have been the best in the series. I'd guess that if Mendes had done the 49th or 51st movie then he wouldn't have been hampered by urge (on his part too to a lessor degree i'm sure) to crowbar the homages in.

[gkgyver]

 

Some of the gags work: The DB5, guns blazing, is pulled off almost perfectly. But did the nice moment with the ejector seat really then have to be over clarified with M's line about being ejected ? We already got the joke just with their glances (they're both great actors), it worked, so why rub out noses in it with dialogue.

 

God, yes.

That moment was awkward.

Every time I saw the film, the audience reacted, at most, with a tired laugh.

[Odd Jobbies]

 

 

Some of the gags work: The DB5, guns blazing, is pulled off almost perfectly. But did the nice moment with the ejector seat really then have to be over clarified with M's line about being ejected ? We already got the joke just with their glances (they're both great actors), it worked, so why rub out noses in it with dialogue.

 

God, yes.

That moment was awkward.

Every time I saw the film, the audience reacted, at most, with a tired laugh.

 

 

Anatomy of a cock-up:

 

I've only seen it once so far, but it was a very big audience at the BFI imax in london. When Bond flipped open the gearstick to reveal the red ejector button there was a tingle of acknowledgement and appreciation throughout the audience. Then the nice knowing glances between Bond and M, which stated all too clearly and in good humour that M had watch it or he'll press the button got a warm laugh. Great moment and for just a moment everyone is feeling non-patrinized and complimented by the smart humour that they all obviously understood.....

 

Then the dialogue, saying out loud what that moment had already said very clearly without any words - saying to the audience that they're probably pretty stupid and need it said out loud. A jaded sigh passed audibly around the seats and the film had much work to do win them back.

 

The sparse and stylish arrival into the highlands achieved this - Newman's score excelling here; despite aping the soundscape of Zimmer's Dark Knight (which in itself owes a lot to The Shinning and David Lynch's whole catalogue) we were transported wholesale into the drama - the isolation of those haunting hills, setting up 'the haunted house' of Skyfall. It was as though Newman hated having to use the Bond score and put all his efforts into the moments that didn't require it.

 

But, sadly, it just takes one DB5 to be destroyed by a chopper and Bond is back in parodic-comedy mode with his enraged reaction. Never mind that his dearest M and childhood friend are being blown to bits elsewhere - they killed his car!!! Now they gotta pay.

 

Then once again the action wins us all back, until the unbelievably implausible decision of Secret Service supremo M to allow a torch to light their escape in the other dark landscape making them clearly visible for the bad guys. Perhaps she was too overcome by the bullet wound to protest, but why then would this seasoned gamekeeper, Finney, decide to use the torch, or even need the torch since he's been on keeping that land since before Bond's birth?

 

But ho-hum, it's a great death scene from Bardem, doing his best Dennis Hopper cum face for M (though i wish i hadn't had to find out after the film what Bond had said to him), and we're into the superbly presented epilogue that leaves you itching for Bond 24

[The Shark]

I saw it at the BFI Imax too, and the audience laughed at that "are you going to eject me?" line. Must have been a bunch of simpletons, huh?

[Odd Jobbies]

I saw it at the BFI Imax too, and the audience laughed at that "are you going to eject me?" line. Must have been a bunch of simpletons, huh?

 

If you say so. Gkgyver mentioned the audience reaction he experienced, above, and that chimed with the audience i saw it with. I'm sure not all audiences reacted identically, but these two certainly reacted negatively to the dialogue's patronising exposition of that gag.

[SecretAgentFan]

Both times I saw the film the audience was cheering at those moments you mentioned, Odd Jobbies.

 

I guess everybody has an opinion.

[Odd Jobbies]

I guess everybody has an opinion.

 

Afraid so  

[gkgyver]

 

I saw it at the BFI Imax too, and the audience laughed at that "are you going to eject me?" line. Must have been a bunch of simpletons, huh?

 

If you say so. Gkgyver mentioned the audience reaction he experienced, above, and that chimed with the audience i saw it with. I'm sure not all audiences reacted identically, but these two certainly reacted negatively to the dialogue's patronising exposition of that gag.

 

 

I saw the film three times in theatres, and the reaction was always the same.

[Matt_13]

The entire DB5 scene has gone over great every time I've seen it. Still can't watch it all without a stupid grin plastered on my face.

[PeteNeon]

I tell you what cue is really, really growing on me, and I think sounds one of the most James Bond-esque pieces of music in recent years, the small and sweet 'New Digs'.

Stunning, atmospheric and oozing Bond style.

I think that's probably my favourite track, but the one I felt, at first, didn't match the material at all. I really like it, but it's much too exotic for the scene IMO. It's grown on me with repeat viewings though.

[Matt_13]

New Digs is a very cool track. Works well in the context of the scene too. Very slick, very modern.

[thecasinoroyale]

I tell you another one that's grown on me (all of them!), is 'Jellyfish' - very menacing and haunting, but exciting.

 

And the first 10 seconds just scream 'The Dark Knight' to me - that triumphant, BatMan-esque blare of the brass is superb!

 

 

Very, very thankful I've gotten over my Newman-fear and embraced this soundtrack as it's one of the best in the series..if not THE best.

[TheHouseholdCat]

 Some of the gags work: The DB5, guns blazing, is pulled off almost perfectly. But did the nice moment with the ejector seat really then have to be over clarified with M's line about being ejected ? We already got the joke just with their glances (they're both great actors), it worked, so why rub out noses in it with dialogue.

God, yes.
That moment was awkward.
Every time I saw the film, the audience reacted, at most, with a tired laugh.

I didn't even realize this could be a problem to anyone.

 

I saw it at the BFI Imax too, and the audience laughed at that "are you going to eject me?" line. Must have been a bunch of simpletons, huh?

 
If you say so. Gkgyver mentioned the audience reaction he experienced, above, and that chimed with the audience i saw it with. I'm sure not all audiences reacted identically, but these two certainly reacted negatively to the dialogue's patronising exposition of that gag.

 I guess it takes a lot of thinking to interpret it as "patronising". Always expect the worst, huh?

Edited by TheHouseholdCat, 13 December 2012 - 11:44 AM.

[TheHouseholdCat]

I tell you what cue is really, really growing on me, and I think sounds one of the most James Bond-esque pieces of music in recent years, the small and sweet 'New Digs'.

Stunning, atmospheric and oozing Bond style.

I think that's probably my favourite track, but the one I felt, at first, didn't match the material at all. I really like it, but it's much too exotic for the scene IMO. It's grown on me with repeat viewings though.
 

I didn't think of it as exotic. More kind of "busy".

"Jellyfish" felt like Inception to me. Cool track.

[Odd Jobbies]

 

 

 Some of the gags work: The DB5, guns blazing, is pulled off almost perfectly. But did the nice moment with the ejector seat really then have to be over clarified with M's line about being ejected ? We already got the joke just with their glances (they're both great actors), it worked, so why rub out noses in it with dialogue.

God, yes.
That moment was awkward.
Every time I saw the film, the audience reacted, at most, with a tired laugh.

 

I didn't even realize this could be a problem to anyone.

 

 

I saw it at the BFI Imax too, and the audience laughed at that "are you going to eject me?" line. Must have been a bunch of simpletons, huh?

 
If you say so. Gkgyver mentioned the audience reaction he experienced, above, and that chimed with the audience i saw it with. I'm sure not all audiences reacted identically, but these two certainly reacted negatively to the dialogue's patronising exposition of that gag.

 

 I guess it takes a lot of thinking to interpret it as "patronising". Always expect the worst, huh?

 

 

Not really. Dictionary definition:

 

 

Treat with an apparent kindness that betrays a feeling of superiority.

 

M underlining the gag by literally saying out loud despite it being already obvious to just about everyone is an apparent kindness betraying the authors feeling of superiority, i.e. they think we're too dumb to get it without the literal explanation.

 

That's just common sense, not 'a lot of thinking'. Big rule of script writing is don't treat your audience like idiots; look at the gulf in standards between contemporary British tv (BBC etc) and US tv (HBO etc) for an example of how it can degrade the quality of the product when you patronise the audience).

 

Write for the lowest common denominator and you pay the price, which is how Brosnan's film's went from the quality of GE to the puerileness of DAD.

 

ETA: Btw, i saw SF again yesterday and while the Ejector seat moment (along with mounting the tube train) were still extremely awkward, i found the score far better than my first viewing and i'd say it was the 50th Anniversary pressures that probably made small parts of Newman's work sit a little uncomfortably. As a whole it's a really fantastic score that makes far more of the tensions than we've been accustomed to with Bond.

 

I'd love to see Newman (preferably with Mendes and Deakins) return for Bond 24 or beyond. I think without the 50th Anniv. boxes to tick i think the three of them together could make a bonafide masterpiece.

Edited by Odd Jobbies, 13 December 2012 - 12:02 PM.

[The Shark]

 

I tell you what cue is really, really growing on me, and I think sounds one of the most James Bond-esque pieces of music in recent years, the small and sweet 'New Digs'.

Stunning, atmospheric and oozing Bond style.

 

I think that's probably my favourite track, but the one I felt, at first, didn't match the material at all. I really like it, but it's much too exotic for the scene IMO. It's grown on me with repeat viewings though.

 

 

There's an Arabic feel to it, but it's for Bond being chauffeured through central London. If you know anything about contemporary London, that makes total sense.

[Odd Jobbies]

 

There's an Arabic feel to it, but it's for Bond being chauffeured through central London. If you know anything about contemporary London, that makes total sense.

 

 

 

Lol, so true.

 

The recent census showed that for the first time ever ethnic Londoners are in the minority. I have no intention of opening a debate about  the merits, but it's a fact that the old 'Great British' view of London is only possible if you don't know London.

 

Nice to see Newman reflecting the reality of 'my' town in his score.

Edited by Odd Jobbies, 13 December 2012 - 03:15 PM.

[Sean Moore]

I'm disappointed in the score, but I need to see the film again and listen to it a second time.

 

My observations on the film, written for those who have already seen it, and containing some remarks on the application of the classic James Bond theme, is posted right here:

 

http://debrief.comma...s/#entry1242932

 

OOPS. I'VE BEEN MOVED TO POST #350 HERE:

 

http://debrief.comma...-thread/page-12

Edited by Sean Moore, 17 December 2012 - 02:58 PM.

[junkanoo]

 

 

I tell you what cue is really, really growing on me, and I think sounds one of the most James Bond-esque pieces of music in recent years, the small and sweet 'New Digs'.

Stunning, atmospheric and oozing Bond style.

 

I think that's probably my favourite track, but the one I felt, at first, didn't match the material at all. I really like it, but it's much too exotic for the scene IMO. It's grown on me with repeat viewings though.

 

 

There's an Arabic feel to it, but it's for Bond being chauffeured through central London. If you know anything about contemporary London, that makes total sense.

 

 

Central London?  Rather than that making total sense it make no sense.  Northwest London and other areas ... that's a different story. 

[The Shark]

I tell you what cue is really, really growing on me, and I think sounds one of the most James Bond-esque pieces of music in recent years, the small and sweet 'New Digs'.

Stunning, atmospheric and oozing Bond style.

 
I think that's probably my favourite track, but the one I felt, at first, didn't match the material at all. I really like it, but it's much too exotic for the scene IMO. It's grown on me with repeat viewings though.
 

 
There's an Arabic feel to it, but it's for Bond being chauffeured through central London. If you know anything about contemporary London, that makes total sense.
 

 
Central London?  Rather than that making total sense it make no sense.

There's plenty of Muslims who live and commute through Central London, believe it or not.

[Elvenstar]

my fav tracks are New digs, Grand Bazaar, Shanghai Drive, Tennyson & She's mine

[Turn]

I had high hopes for some fresh blood in Newman. After a strong start in TND, I found each succeeding Arnold score disappointing; though his last 2 had some moments I liked, but only moments, nothing consistent.  Then when I saw SF I didn't notice anything stand out in Newman's score.

 

I got the soundtrack for Christmas, as I always do, and looked forward to listening to it for a fresh approach to Newman's score. Again, I am disappointed as halfway through the score nothing stands out and it feels like it could come from any given Arnold score. It's just random music, and doesn't place me in any particular place in Skyfall.

 

I remember walking out of TLD, besides loving the film, looking forward to grabbing John Barry's memorable soundtrack, the same for Arnold's TND. Since then, it's just a ritual to buy a Bond soundtrack. Even the recent Mission Impossible scores have been more interesting. I walked out of those films looking forward to getting those scores and wasn't disappointed with them.

 

Am I expecting too much or has this changed and I need to move on with it?

[The Shark]

I had high hopes for some fresh blood in Newman. After a strong start in TND, I found each succeeding Arnold score disappointing; though his last 2 had some moments I liked, but only moments, nothing consistent. Then when I saw SF I didn't notice anything stand out in Newman's score.

I got the soundtrack for Christmas, as I always do, and looked forward to listening to it for a fresh approach to Newman's score. Again, I am disappointed as halfway through the score nothing stands out and it feels like it could come from any given Arnold score. It's just random music, and doesn't place me in any particular place in Skyfall.

I remember walking out of TLD, besides loving the film, looking forward to grabbing John Barry's memorable soundtrack, the same for Arnold's TND. Since then, it's just a ritual to buy a Bond soundtrack. Even the recent Mission Impossible scores have been more interesting. I walked out of those films looking forward to getting those scores and wasn't disappointed with them.

Am I expecting too much or has this changed and I need to move on with it?

[Vauxhall]

And so it all ends with an Oscar-nominated score. Despite Thomas Newman's strong record with the Academy, I'm not sure I ever expected that. Definitely the most surprising of today's five nominations in my book.

Having a re-listen tonight by means of a mini celebration.

[MajorB]

 

 

 

 

M underlining the gag by literally saying out loud despite it being already obvious to just about everyone is an apparent kindness betraying the authors feeling of superiority, i.e. they think we're too dumb to get it without the literal explanation.

 

That's just common sense, not 'a lot of thinking'. Big rule of script writing is don't treat your audience like idiots; look at the gulf in standards between contemporary British tv (BBC etc) and US tv (HBO etc) for an example of how it can degrade the quality of the product when you patronise the audience).

 

Write for the lowest common denominator and you pay the price, which is how Brosnan's film's went from the quality of GE to the puerileness of DAD.

 

ETA: Btw, i saw SF again yesterday and while the Ejector seat moment (along with mounting the tube train) were still extremely awkward, i found the score far better than my first viewing and i'd say it was the 50th Anniversary pressures that probably made small parts of Newman's work sit a little uncomfortably. As a whole it's a really fantastic score that makes far more of the tensions than we've been accustomed to with Bond.

 

I'd love to see Newman (preferably with Mendes and Deakins) return for Bond 24 or beyond. I think without the 50th Anniv. boxes to tick i think the three of them together could make a bonafide masterpiece.

 

 

I also saw it again last night. My audience barely chuckled when Bond flipped open the ejector button, but really laughed when M said, "Go on, eject me." Not everyone is equally Bond-meme conscious. And as a decades-long Bond fan, I thought the whole exchange was hilarious and didn't feel condescended to.

 

As for the score, I felt from the start that it mostly did an excellent job of supporting the film. As a listening experience, I was less enthusiastic at first, but it's really been growing on me after many repetitions. I echo others who name "New Digs" as their favorite. Also "Komodo Dragon" and "Shanghai Drive."

[x007AceOfSpades]

Having a re-listen tonight by means of a mini celebration.

 

Same here!

[MattofSteel]

I love Thomas Newman's score. Love it. But the fact that he gets nominated for Skyfall and Arnold was never nominated for any Bond work is beyond a joke.

 

Now, I'm not saying Arnold wrote Oscar-worthy scores, necessarily. Obviously many of you will pounce and say he didn't.

 

But the irony of it all is, I have to admit, hilarious.

[x007AceOfSpades]

Hate to say it, but none of Arnold's score's were anywhere near Oscar contention at all. I'll admit I wasn't expecting Newman to get a nomination (even though I felt he should, as his work is perfect) Newman did a better job in my opinion, and for that his work got recognized, and I'd love for him to return for Bond 24.

[Ernst Stavro Blofeld Jr.]

I love Thomas Newman's score. Love it. But the fact that he gets nominated for Skyfall and Arnold was never nominated for any Bond work is beyond a joke.

 

Now, I'm not saying Arnold wrote Oscar-worthy scores, necessarily. Obviously many of you will pounce and say he didn't.

 

But the irony of it all is, I have to admit, hilarious.

 

The Oscar's are an annual affair.  Past nominations have no effect on a yearly basis.

 

FYI, John Barry never won any Oscar for Bond, nor was even nominated.  That is a real travesty, but shouldn't stop Newman or any other future composer from being nominated.

Edited by Ernst Stavro Blofeld Jr., 11 January 2013 - 09:41 PM.