1894 replies to this topic

[THX-007]

If by "mature" you mean "play it safe" then yes, sure.

No I didn't mean that at all. I mean "mature" in that the score is more complex and creative than its predecessors. If anything David Arnold's scores "played it safe" by throwing in the Barry brass sound in whenever possible and piano cues that sound like they were composed in 10 minutes.

[iexpectu2die]

FilmTracks is the only soundtrack review publication I bother to read, and their review was worth waiting for; it pretty much sums up exactly how I feel about this score. Serviceable, but with tragically little in the way of melody.

http://www.filmtrack...es/skyfall.html

Perhaps no moment in Skyfall is as nonsensical as "Adrenaline," which immediately follows the Arnold arrangement of Norman's Bond theme in the end credits and serves absolutely no purpose. Its low-key exotic rhythms almost sound like something Mychael Danna would write for a lesser drama and have nothing to do with the rest of the score.

Erm, it's a reprise and development of Shanghai Drive. I thought that was obvious.

That just confirms what I already knew. Christian Clemmensen is an ill-informed, reactionary, middlebrow hack. A disgrace to the profession.

Yes, he does seem to have missed the mark with that particular quote. However, regardless of his competence as a film score critic, he has managed to capture my exact feelings towards Newman's score. There simply aren't any recognisable melodies, save for a couple of three or four-note motif's and the descending 'Voluntary Retirement' phrases. Sure, there are little bits of recurring rhythm across the action cues but for me, that isn't enough. And the aforementioned 'The Moors' is as jarring as Serra's worst.

[SecretAgentFan]

I respectfully disagree. There are lots of recognizable melodies in Newman´s score. And I do not fathom why some listeners do not detect them.

[marktmurphy]

Sounds like Joel McNeely's Arnold-lite score for THE AVENGERS.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZh3k4MxxwU

Must admit I've always had a bit of a soft spot for that
I know it's not very good but sometimes you just like stuff despite its quality. I quite like the main title theme.

http://www.metro.co....ks-bond-records

I love that they used an image of waxworks to accompany that article!

[gkgyver]

Yes, he does seem to have missed the mark with that particular quote. However, regardless of his competence as a film score critic, he has managed to capture my exact feelings towards Newman's score. There simply aren't any recognisable melodies, save for a couple of three or four-note motif's and the descending 'Voluntary Retirement' phrases. Sure, there are little bits of recurring rhythm across the action cues but for me, that isn't enough. And the aforementioned 'The Moors' is as jarring as Serra's worst.

I actually never read a review by him that I don't agree with.
"The Moors" is actually not that bad, I find the worst scoring goes on in the middle part of the movie, once Bond leaves London. The last two or three cues are ok. Just, like I said, even the credits don't have a good rendition of the Bond theme.

[The Shark]

And the aforementioned 'The Moors' is as jarring as Serra's worst.

I wouldn't go as to compare it to 'Ladies First', but it's definitely my least favourite cue in the score, and one that I usually skip when playing the album in full.

[thecasinoroyale]

For my final viewing, I really honestly think I enjoyed it the most lastnight. I don't know why... I just really let go and fell into the film.

Just have to say I let the soundtrack take main stage this viewing and let it wash over me in every scene, and really I have to say Newman is growing on me with what he's done for 'Skyfall' - it's never distracting, he has crafted a score that compliments every scene and tells the story without dialogue needed. An exceptional score, very mature for James Bond and very well done.

[JazzyBond]

If this has been mentioned already I apologize but has anyone noticed the difference in the soundtrack cover and the teaser poster? The gunbarrel opening is not as wide. This helps the overall look because Craig doesnt have the Dumbo ears look like he has on the teaser. Much better look and I hope that is the cover of the DVD.

[thecasinoroyale]

I tell you what cue is really, really growing on me, and I think sounds one of the most James Bond-esque pieces of music in recent years, the small and sweet 'New Digs'.

Stunning, atmospheric and oozing Bond style.

[MattofSteel]

The one is a grower. A lot of them are. And yet the more I listen, the more I hear the Newman-isms. It's an intriguing score, to say the least.

[JazzyBond]

I think my favorite is Skyfall. So beautiful and set to the screen really invokes an impending sadness. Favorites besides Skyfall is the aforementioned New Digs, Turkish Bazaar, Severine, Shanghai Drive, Tennyson, Komodo Dragon, Brave New World and of course Breadcrumbs! I listen to this soundtrack a lot and threw in Casino Royale the other day and was surprised at the generic-ness of CR compared to SF. SF is so much richer and diverse of a soundtrack. And I love David Arnold.

Edited by JazzyBond, 23 November 2012 - 07:11 PM.

[x007AceOfSpades]

Currently listening to Track 25: Welcome To Scotland, one of my favorite pieces in the film and it works phenomenally with the action.

[sharpshooter]

I can't stress enough how perfectly the soundtrack fitted the movie. Seamlessly done, Mr. Newman.

[Armand Fancypants]

Thoroughly enjoyed the score on second viewing. The best since GoldenEye, at least. M's theme is really quite effective.

[TheHouseholdCat]

The one is a grower. A lot of them are. And yet the more I listen, the more I hear the Newman-isms. It's an intriguing score, to say the least.

It's great fun to find the Newmanisms. Like the Nemo-like brass moments. I think I heard something like that.

I think my favorite is Skyfall. So beautiful and set to the screen really invokes an impending sadness. Favorites besides Skyfall is the aforementioned New Digs, Turkish Bazaar, Severine, Shanghai Drive, Tennyson, Komodo Dragon, Brave New World and of course Breadcrumbs! I listen to this soundtrack a lot and threw in Casino Royale the other day and was surprised at the generic-ness of CR compared to SF. SF is so much richer and diverse of a soundtrack. And I love David Arnold.

Skyfall is such a brilliant piece of music. And I overlooked it during the first album run-throughs...

Thoroughly enjoyed the score on second viewing. The best since GoldenEye, at least. M's theme is really quite effective.

M's theme really evokes a certain kind of sadness. But it's very dignified at the same time.

[201050]

For me, this is the best score to come along in decades. I've been fine with Arnold's scores, but he's a bit of a two note style. His stuff is either simple quiet or action scene loud\fast. He comes across to me as formula over depth. A lot of his scores have several pieces I leave off my car & iPod copies. I end up with ear fatigue after a while, so I just don't bother. Casino Royale (plus the only piece from Quantum I care for, Opera) is the only Arnold-007 I listen to any more.

With Skyfall, Newman brought in depth and atmosphere. The music when 007 & M are standing looking out over the moors is a perfect example. That has atmosphere that Arnold just doesn't bring. It may be atmosphere & depth we've never had in a Bond film before. Personally, I think there are areas of this film where no one could have handled it the way Newman did. Even when he's channeling Barry (Chimera), he does it with more depth.

I not only love the score and listen to it regularly nearly every day, but I'd go as far as saying it significantly added to why I see Skyfall as such an emotionally deep film. Newman's Skyfall score joins LALD and MWTGG as the only soundtracks I listen to in their entirety. For the record, film scores figure huge in my world and comprise probably 25% of my hundreds of CDs. The vinyl LP of LALD was the first album I ever bought (in 1973).

Edited by 201050, 29 November 2012 - 11:04 PM.

[Harry Fawkes]

Midshipman: I couldn't agree more with you.

10 out of 10 indeed.

[Matt_13]

It compliments the action on screen perfectly. Tennyson and Grand Bazaar are brilliant.

[FlemingBond]

i think the music worked , when i saw the film..Although now i can't really recall a lot of it.

[AgentBentley]

If anything drastically improved with my 2nd viewing of Skyfall this morning, it was the soundtrack. Barely paid any attention to it the first time, with the exception of Adele, the Bond theme and the songs Silva plays. Today I got a better opportunity to listen, and I must say I really liked it. Don't know much about Newman, but he is absolutely welcome to return.

[Odd Jobbies]

 

Superb score, apart from where it used the Bond theme - horribly vignetted to the point of parody and miss-cued, perhaps in the dub, coming in sometimes too early, other times too late, but always sounding like a 'Comic Relief' parody sketch.

I love the pulpy, old fashioned, slightly corny touch Newman gives the Bond theme in this score, especially during moments like the bike chase. I remember having a huge grin on my face when watching that in the theatre. Brought out the little boy in me.

Newman's use of the Bond theme is the most inventive and compelling in years. Bond raising a toast to the bodyguards as it played was dynamite.

Next time you watch Skyfall, think about how the theme ends each time it's used in a short burst... 

 

It's like a high-hat signifying the punchline; like every time David Letterman tells a bad joke on his chat show and the band hit the high-hat to rub in just how naff it was. It's Letterman saying, "Hey, just in case you thought that i thought that was a good joke, the band are telling you that I know it was bad - that's the point!".  It felt like Newman was saying that about Bond each time and that takes us back to the 70s for all the wrong reasons. Maybe in Bond 24 we'll get a swannee-whistle !

 

To underline that this was intended by Eon there's the naff 70s moment the old couple say, "Blimey, he's in a hurry to get home..." as Bond mounts the tube train. All a misguided attempt to homage the Bond canon. Sadly they instead tarnished what was otherwise the best Bond movie ever made.

 

I sympathise with Mendes - he gets his shot at Bond, delivers a classic and Eon force inconsistent homages into his masterpiece (probably why the edit apparently went to the wire - trying to salvage these clangers...

Edited by Odd Jobbies, 05 December 2012 - 04:41 PM.

[The Shark]

I really can't agree, since I love most of the cheesy, naff and cringe-worthy moments in 70s/80s Bond. Whether it's Alfred the drunk, MOONRAKER'S final scene, the double-taking pigeon, Make it Last All Night, "a delicatessen... in stainless steal!", Bill Conti's Runaway, the burning Chinese guy in DIAMONDS ARE FOREVER, or Blofeld-in-drag. Granted, not all of those bits work for me, i.e. Jaws/Dolly, but still my point stands.

 

I love that kind of silliness, surreality and plain weirdness in Bond. It's part of what the franchise is, warts and all.

 

My favourite Bond is THUNDERBALL, with DIAMONDS ARE FOREVER in the top 5. 'nuff said.

[SecretAgentFan]

 

 

Superb score, apart from where it used the Bond theme - horribly vignetted to the point of parody and miss-cued, perhaps in the dub, coming in sometimes too early, other times too late, but always sounding like a 'Comic Relief' parody sketch.

I love the pulpy, old fashioned, slightly corny touch Newman gives the Bond theme in this score, especially during moments like the bike chase. I remember having a huge grin on my face when watching that in the theatre. Brought out the little boy in me.

Newman's use of the Bond theme is the most inventive and compelling in years. Bond raising a toast to the bodyguards as it played was dynamite.

Next time you watch Skyfall, think about how the theme ends each time it's used in a short burst... 

 

It's like a high-hat signifying the punchline; like every time David Letterman tells a bad joke on his chat show and the band hit the high-hat to rub in just how naff it was. It's Letterman saying, "Hey, just in case you thought that i thought that was a good joke, the band are telling you that I know it was bad - that's the point!".  It felt like Newman was saying that about Bond each time and that takes us back to the 70s for all the wrong reasons. Maybe in Bond 24 we'll get a swannee-whistle !

 

To underline that this was intended by Eon there's the naff 70s moment the old couple say, "Blimey, he's in a hurry to get home..." as Bond mounts the tube train. All a misguided attempt to homage the Bond canon. Sadly they instead tarnished what was otherwise the best Bond movie ever made.

 

I sympathise with Mendes - he gets his shot at Bond, delivers a classic and Eon force inconsistent homages into his masterpiece (probably why the edit apparently went to the wire - trying to salvage these clangers...

 

 

Why do you think that EON "forced inconsistent homages into his masterpiece"? 

 

Don´t fall victim to the old "oh, the director´s work was ruined by the producers". If the music and the scenes did not work for you, fine. But that´s no reason to seek the blame with Eon, although that´s always easy and fashionable.

[TheSilhouette]

It was actually Mendes himself who suggested the little homages and such.

[sharpshooter]

I’m not going to hold my breath, but I’d sure like the unreleased tracks to come out, especially the Bond theme as the choppers arrive to capture Silva. I dig Newman’s use of the Bond theme, ala 3.27 to 3.50 in ‘Grand Bazaar, Istanbul’, throughout ‘Enquiry’ and ‘She’s Mine’. I fully agree with The Shark's assessment. It’s fun and rousing stuff.

 

Thinking about it, the opening two cues of the score are similar to Eric Serra’s ‘Goldeneye Overture’ in the sense it’s two cues joined together, ala ‘Half of Everything Is Luck/The Other Half Is Fate’. Newman’s score bests Serra, in my opinion, because it retains a more Barryish elegance, ala ‘Komodo Dragon’ and ‘The Chimera’, but still manages to have the atmospheric, introspective material.

[The Shark]

I’m not going to hold my breath, but I’d sure like the unreleased tracks to come out, especially the Bond theme as the choppers arrive to capture Silva. I dig Newman’s use of the Bond theme, ala 3.27 to 3.50 in ‘Grand Bazaar, Istanbul’, throughout ‘Enquiry’ and ‘She’s Mine’. I fully agree with The Shark's assessment. It’s fun and rousing stuff.

 

Same here. I also love the ominous Barry-esque bit as Bond climbs out from under the Shanghai lift. It was probably taken out of 'Jellyfish' for pacing reasons. Newman could've felt it got in the way of the flow between the pulsing, Batman-like intro where Bond holds on for dear life, and the stalking music.

 

The isolation chamber stuff is also a nice variation on 'Someone Usually Dies.'

[Odd Jobbies]

 

 

 

Superb score, apart from where it used the Bond theme - horribly vignetted to the point of parody and miss-cued, perhaps in the dub, coming in sometimes too early, other times too late, but always sounding like a 'Comic Relief' parody sketch.

I love the pulpy, old fashioned, slightly corny touch Newman gives the Bond theme in this score, especially during moments like the bike chase. I remember having a huge grin on my face when watching that in the theatre. Brought out the little boy in me.

Newman's use of the Bond theme is the most inventive and compelling in years. Bond raising a toast to the bodyguards as it played was dynamite.

Next time you watch Skyfall, think about how the theme ends each time it's used in a short burst... 

 

It's like a high-hat signifying the punchline; like every time David Letterman tells a bad joke on his chat show and the band hit the high-hat to rub in just how naff it was. It's Letterman saying, "Hey, just in case you thought that i thought that was a good joke, the band are telling you that I know it was bad - that's the point!".  It felt like Newman was saying that about Bond each time and that takes us back to the 70s for all the wrong reasons. Maybe in Bond 24 we'll get a swannee-whistle !

 

To underline that this was intended by Eon there's the naff 70s moment the old couple say, "Blimey, he's in a hurry to get home..." as Bond mounts the tube train. All a misguided attempt to homage the Bond canon. Sadly they instead tarnished what was otherwise the best Bond movie ever made.

 

I sympathise with Mendes - he gets his shot at Bond, delivers a classic and Eon force inconsistent homages into his masterpiece (probably why the edit apparently went to the wire - trying to salvage these clangers...

 

 

Why do you think that EON "forced inconsistent homages into his masterpiece"? 

 

Don´t fall victim to the old "oh, the director´s work was ruined by the producers". If the music and the scenes did not work for you, fine. But that´s no reason to seek the blame with Eon, although that´s always easy and fashionable.

 

 

It's just an educated guess. I've only worked in film briefly but have been in tv a long time and my experience is that there's often too many chefs - too many people with opinions and if you're not careful the film's shot and cut by committee. Throw in sponsor deals and 50th anniversary pressures and it's hard for any director to keep total control and final cut. Did Mendes have final cut on SF? I'm thinking he didn't, just like his predecessors.

 

That said, you make a fair point - i've no idea what transpired in the SF edit and perhaps Mendes thought these awful, masterpiece-hacking moments actually added to his film. But IMO it's because SF has so much masterpiece about it, that i don't see the guy responsible for directing that also being responsible for the messy out of place 50th anniversary gags littering the second half of the movie.

 

Some of the gags work: The DB5, guns blazing, is pulled off almost perfectly. But did the nice moment with the ejector seat really then have to be over clarified with M's line about being ejected ? We already got the joke just with their glances (they're both great actors), it worked, so why rub out noses in it with dialogue.

 

Producers seldom suggest making things more subtle, instead they often worry that the audience won't get it and want more exposition (good Producers that suggest more subtlety/less exposition are going extinct). Haven't you noticed on tv drama and documentary everything is told to you 3 times: "IT is going to happen now... IT is happenning now.... IT just happened..."

 

But who knows, perhaps Mendes, Director of nuanced, subtle and if anything a little too clever movies like Road To Perdition, Jarhead and the wonderful American Beauty read the thrilling sequence in which Craig's gritty, realistic Bond mounts the backend of a tube train in pursuit of a terrorist and thought, "Hmmm.... This would be even better if an elderly couple were to comment, He's in a hurry to get home.... Yes, and lets have him say something hilarious to the driver too (not that Tubes have anyone in the rear driver's cabin) "

 

Forgive the sarcasm, but that scene leaves a bitter taste because virtually everything up to there was superb.

Edited by Odd Jobbies, 06 December 2012 - 05:21 PM.

[The Shark]

Some of the gags work: The DB5, guns blazing, is pulled off almost perfectly.

 

That was a gag?

[SecretAgentFan]

 

 

 

 

Superb score, apart from where it used the Bond theme - horribly vignetted to the point of parody and miss-cued, perhaps in the dub, coming in sometimes too early, other times too late, but always sounding like a 'Comic Relief' parody sketch.

I love the pulpy, old fashioned, slightly corny touch Newman gives the Bond theme in this score, especially during moments like the bike chase. I remember having a huge grin on my face when watching that in the theatre. Brought out the little boy in me.

Newman's use of the Bond theme is the most inventive and compelling in years. Bond raising a toast to the bodyguards as it played was dynamite.

Next time you watch Skyfall, think about how the theme ends each time it's used in a short burst... 

 

It's like a high-hat signifying the punchline; like every time David Letterman tells a bad joke on his chat show and the band hit the high-hat to rub in just how naff it was. It's Letterman saying, "Hey, just in case you thought that i thought that was a good joke, the band are telling you that I know it was bad - that's the point!".  It felt like Newman was saying that about Bond each time and that takes us back to the 70s for all the wrong reasons. Maybe in Bond 24 we'll get a swannee-whistle !

 

To underline that this was intended by Eon there's the naff 70s moment the old couple say, "Blimey, he's in a hurry to get home..." as Bond mounts the tube train. All a misguided attempt to homage the Bond canon. Sadly they instead tarnished what was otherwise the best Bond movie ever made.

 

I sympathise with Mendes - he gets his shot at Bond, delivers a classic and Eon force inconsistent homages into his masterpiece (probably why the edit apparently went to the wire - trying to salvage these clangers...

 

 

Why do you think that EON "forced inconsistent homages into his masterpiece"? 

 

Don´t fall victim to the old "oh, the director´s work was ruined by the producers". If the music and the scenes did not work for you, fine. But that´s no reason to seek the blame with Eon, although that´s always easy and fashionable.

 

 

It's just an educated guess. I've only worked in film briefly but have been in tv a long time and my experience is that there's often too many chefs - too many people with opinions and if you're not careful the film's shot and cut by committee. Throw in sponsor deals and 50th anniversary pressures and it's hard for any director to keep total control and final cut. Did Mendes have final cut on SF? I'm thinking he didn't, just like his predecessors.

 

That said, you make a fair point - i've no idea what transpired in the SF edit and perhaps Mendes thought these awful, masterpiece-hacking moments actually added to his film. But IMO it's because SF has so much masterpiece about it, that i don't see the guy responsible for directing that also being responsible for the messy out of place 50th anniversary gags littering the second half of the movie.

 

Some of the gags work: The DB5, guns blazing, is pulled off almost perfectly. But did the nice moment with the ejector seat really then have to be over clarified with M's line about being ejected ? We already got the joke just with their glances (they're both great actors), it worked, so why rub out noses in it with dialogue.

 

Producers seldom suggest making things more subtle, instead they often worry that the audience won't get it and want more exposition (good Producers that suggest more subtlety/less exposition are going extinct). Haven't you noticed on tv drama and documentary everything is told to you 3 times: "IT is going to happen now... IT is happenning now.... IT just happened..."

 

But who knows, perhaps Mendes, Director of nuanced, subtle and if anything a little too clever movies like Road To Perdition, Jarhead and the wonderful American Beauty read the thrilling sequence in which Craig's gritty, realistic Bond mounts the backend of a tube train in pursuit of a terrorist and thought, "Hmmm.... This would be even better if an elderly couple were to comment, He's in a hurry to get home.... Yes, and lets have him say something hilarious to the driver too (not that Tubes have anyone in the rear driver's cabin) "

 

Forgive the sarcasm, but that scene leaves a bitter taste because virtually everything up to there was superb.

 

I agree with you on producers forcing stuff into your work - I know from first-hand experience.

 

But EON knows very well what they are doing, in contrast to many other producers around. And they gave Mendes and Craig a long leash on SKYFALL.

 

From what Mendes and Craig were telling the press, they definitely wanted to have some classic Bond moments in the film. The old couple´s remark in the tube sequence definitely was a nod to the Moore era (LALD was Craig´s and Mendes´ first Bond film experience) - and I can understand why you do not like it.

 

The DB5 with machine guns was, as I recall from the candid interview with Purvis & Wade, definitely a Mendes idea; P & W wanted it to be the car Bond won in CR.

Edited by SecretAgentFan, 06 December 2012 - 06:00 PM.

[JimmyBond]

The DB5 with machine guns was, as I recall from the candid interview with Purvis & Wade, definitely a Mendes idea; P & W wanted it to be the car Bond won in CR.

 

Yeah, they just wanted the boot to be loaded with weapons.

Edited by JimmyBond, 06 December 2012 - 06:10 PM.