128 replies to this topic

[007jamesbond]

nice find Luigi Ferrari

I am thinking when says live and let die and from russia with love he means the novel not the book right? I am thinking in those books there are some hooks, which is translate in SF script to have those hooks or ideas

anyone can think of what these little scenes from FRWL and LALD could be?

[007jamesbond]

double post

Edited by 007jamesbond, 30 November 2011 - 11:00 PM.

[univex]

‘Early on, we sat down and we just rabbited for hours about “Live and Let Die” or “From Russia With Love”, and talked about little scenes that we knew from them. That’s how we started talking about it. That’s what we have tried to instil in the script.’

Let us elaborate on this, please Two guys, of roughly the same age, with memories of growing up with Bond, one of them being a huge fan, having both read the novels, ... This can only be a good thing, right?

[Captain Tightpants]

anyone can think of what these little scenes from FRWL and LALD could be?

I think you're reading entirely too much into things, and looking for meaning in comments that don't really have it. Most of FRWL was adapted into the film, and most of LALD was adapted into LALD and LTK. There's not really anything substantial that hasn't been put on film (except the gold pirate coins in LALD, but they're interchangable with the cocaine in LTK). Any scenes that haven't been filmed are so small and insignificant in the wider scheme of things that they would offer you no insight into SKYFALL.

[Odd Jobbies]

I just read this Daniel Craig quote:

"...Ultimately because it’s based on source material, the book had those hooks. We’ve got those in this script and as long as we hit those, the rest of it is hopefully going to come together."

It comes from this article:

http://www.mi6-hq.co...07&t=mi6&s=news

I'm surprised the writer of this article didn't pick up on this clue from Craig that Skyfall is based on an existing novel.

With Fleming's catalogue virtually used up, this is either a reference to Skyfall borrowing for a second time from an already adapted Fleming novel, or the use of a Fleming short story. However, correct me if i'm wrong, but none of the shorts have such stand out 'hooks', they are more like sketches, or observations (a day in the life of...)

Could it be a Gardner novel, or Kingsley Amis?

Or is it more likely that Craig's referring to Carte Blanche. I'm currently only a few chapters into it, so i don't know if it contains such stand-out 'hooks', but please, NO SPOILERS in this thread. Thanks.

Anyhow, it looks like we might be more familiar with Skyfall than we'd realised...

[dinovelvet]

Very interesting. I guess the old Carte Blanche rumors may have some life left in them after all. However, Carte Blanche doesn't have anything to do with M's past, which is what Skyfall is supposedly about.

[Bond... Raybond]

So Daniel appears to be saying that they are taking some key story point(s) from a, presumeably, Bond novel? Isn't this what they did with Die Another Day, taking a key point from the Moonraker novel? Although it was heavily diluted in the finished film. So why are people assuming Skyfall is a straight adaption of a Fleming novel? There are plenty of unused story hooks/elements out there that could be used - heck both Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace ignored key story hooks from their literary forebears: Mathis' counsel to an injured Bond about always going after the villains from Casino, and the story of the abused husband in Quantum. Both excellent character/story points that were shamefully, IMHO, ignored from the film version.

[Skudor]

This is just a poor rehash of the piece already quoted above - where the journo has taken the quotes apart and accidentally made it look like Craig is referring to Skyfall material coming from 'the book' when in fact he's referring to the source material from CR.

[edit] When I say 'above' I mistakenly thought this was still the same thread where those comments were initially brought up. The logic still applies.

[Odd Jobbies]

...So why are people assuming Skyfall is a straight adaption of a Fleming novel?

Are they?
Where?

This is just a poor rehash of the piece already quoted above - where the journo has taken the quotes apart and accidentally made it look like Craig is referring to Skyfall material coming from 'the book' when in fact he's referring to the source material from CR.

Yep, this is a distinct possibility

Edited by Odd Jobbies, 01 December 2011 - 11:39 AM.

[Skudor]

http://www.timeout.c...usive-interview

Turning his mind to Bond, Craig admits that ‘Quantum of Solace’ (2008) was a frustrating experience, not least because the Hollywood writers’ strike meant they ended up filming with an incomplete script. ‘We were ed,’ he says. ‘We had the bare bones of a script and then there was the strike and there was nothing we could do. We couldn’t employ a writer to finish it. There was me trying to rewrite scenes – and a writer I am not. We were stuffed.’

In contrast, Craig says he could not be happier with the script of ‘Skyfall’, which he is filming now with Mendes until the end of next May. ‘I’m genuinely really excited because we’ve got a script. I think this one is better than “Casino Royale”. I really do. It’s a totally original story. There’s a long thought process that’s gone into it. I read it and it just works as a story.’

Craig believes that the fact that both he and Mendes are British, roughly the same age and share the same memories of growing up with Bond, has greatly helped the planning and execution of ‘Skyfall’.

‘Early on, we sat down and we just rabbited for hours about “Live and Let Die” or “From Russia With Love”, and talked about little scenes that we knew from them. That’s how we started talking about it. That’s what we have tried to instil in the script.’

A full interview with Daniel Craig, in which he talks about ‘The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo’, ‘Skyfall’ and more, will appear in the next issue of Time Out London, dated December 8-15 2011 and on shelves from Tuesday December 6 2011.

Seriously, how can anyone feel apprehension about this project?

If you already question Craig's and/or Mendes's judgment then you can. But clearly this sounds very good - the script sounds rock solid, and the talent involved is unquestionable (and normally you need the former to attract the latter). So it's all looking good! Here's hoping for a relatively trouble free production!

[Shrublands]

mysterious organisation, rookie 00, betrayed by the woman he loves would be the hooks for CR i think

There are two in CR, which sometime intertwine, but largely have their own dynamic.
1. What will happen between Bond and Vesper?
2. Will Bond be able to defeat a master criminal using a game of cards?

Oh, I gotcha
So we probably know one from SF righ? Will Bond be able to remain loyal to M while tracking down and destroying the threat against MI6? Nah, that´s probably just the big picture right?

It may have something to do with that, but I’m guessing that even when expressed succinctly, it’s something much more novel and unique. The big, central hook, that is.

I think they probably haven’t even hinted at it yet. They seem very proud of it and want to keep it covered-up for as long as possible.

It will doubtless come out before the film hits the screens, and in some ways it’s best for the film’s profile that it does. But they will want to keep it to themselves for the foreseeable future, not for it to become old and less novel too quickly.

[Captain Tightpants]

You're all reading far too much into it. This is what Craig said to GQ:

"Early on, we sat down and we just rabbited for hours about “Live and Let Die” and “From Russia With Love”, and talked about little scenes that we knew from them. That’s how we started talking about it. That’s what we have tried to instil this in the script."

Craig and Mendes and EON sat down and started talking about FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE, looking at the little scenes that made the novel and the film what they were, and decided to concentrate on those little things to try and instill SKYFALL with that same spirit as FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE.

And there's already a thread on this here.

[Captain Tightpants]

You're all reading far too much into it. This is what Craig said to GQ:

"Early on, we sat down and we just rabbited for hours about “Live and Let Die” and “From Russia With Love”, and talked about little scenes that we knew from them. That’s how we started talking about it. That’s what we have tried to instil this in the script."

Craig and Mendes and EON sat down and started talking about FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE, looking at the little scenes that made the novel and the film what they were, and decided to concentrate on those little things to try and instill SKYFALL with that same spirit as FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE.

[Shrublands]

You're all reading far too much into it. This is what Craig said to GQ:

"Early on, we sat down and we just rabbited for hours about “Live and Let Die” and “From Russia With Love”, and talked about little scenes that we knew from them. That’s how we started talking about it. That’s what we have tried to instil this in the script."

Craig and Mendes and EON sat down and started talking about FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE, looking at the little scenes that made the novel and the film what they were, and decided to concentrate on those little things to try and instill SKYFALL with that same spirit as FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE.

Actually, I think you are reading too much into it.
Craig is simply saying that at the very start of this process, he and Mendes found common ground chatting about what they liked in the old Bond films and books.

[Captain Tightpants]

Yeah, that's kind of what I was getting at. They've made it known that they will only settle for the best possible film that they can make, and that common ground is a solid starting point. There's nothing left in any of the novels that are named that has not been filmed. Unlike some idiot on the other forum who reckons that this is proof positive of Blofeld's presence in the film.

[Shrublands]

Really?
What's in this that leads (in anyway sensibly) to that conclusion?

[Skudor]

You're all reading far too much into it. This is what Craig said to GQ:

"Early on, we sat down and we just rabbited for hours about “Live and Let Die” and “From Russia With Love”, and talked about little scenes that we knew from them. That’s how we started talking about it. That’s what we have tried to instil this in the script."

Craig and Mendes and EON sat down and started talking about FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE, looking at the little scenes that made the novel and the film what they were, and decided to concentrate on those little things to try and instill SKYFALL with that same spirit as FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE.

Actually, I think you are reading too much into it.
Craig is simply saying that at the very start of this process, he and Mendes found common ground chatting about what they liked in the old Bond films and books.

I don't see him saying anything about books. He talks about little scenes in them, which to me means they are were talking about the movies.

So they talked about scenes they like from the movies. It seems it was those two movies specifically, although he may just be using that as an example or it may not have any particular meaning.

[Shrublands]

I don't see him saying anything about books. He talks about little scenes in them, which to me means they are were talking about the movies.

So they talked about scenes they like from the movies. It seems it was those two movies specifically, although he may just be using that as an example or it may not have any particular meaning.

Yes, he probably does mean scenes in the films specifically.
He just says FRWL and LALD as off-the-top-of-his-head examples.

[Napoleon Solo]

Can anyone define hook for me? I've heard it used a lot in the context of Skyfall, now by Craig but earlier by the script writer (whose name eludes me for now). I'm taking it to be different from a McGuffin or a twist. It's whatever draws you in to the film and keeps you there?

On this interview I tend to go with Shrub's view - he's talking about the hooks they got from CR the book and used in CR the film, it's just a bit messy. I'd love to believe it was other source material (MWTGG style beginning, YOLT style ending) - but haven't seen enough to buy into that theory.

These may qualify as hooks (at least in the making of featurettes, the word hook is used):

During You Only Live Twice pre-production, the crew kept fruitlessly searching for a castle by the sea, as in Fleming's novel. They come across the extinct volcanoes, Broccoli looks at Adam, etc. The film then gets built around the notion of SPECTRE headquarters inside a hollowed out volcano.

During Diamonds Are Forever pre-prodctuion had a dream about being outside Howard Hughes's penthouse and discovers somebody has taken Hughes's place. The script gets built up around that idea.

[Shrublands]

During Diamonds Are Forever pre-prodctuion had a dream about being outside Howard Hughes's penthouse and discovers somebody has taken Hughes's place. The script gets built up around that idea.

Yes, the notion of a famous, powerful, billionaire recluse having been replaced by Blofeld and nobody noticing is an excellent basis for a plot hook. It’s also a case of an initial idea being better than the execution.

[Odd Jobbies]

You're all reading far too much into it. This is what Craig said to GQ:

"Early on, we sat down and we just rabbited for hours about “Live and Let Die” and “From Russia With Love”, and talked about little scenes that we knew from them. That’s how we started talking about it. That’s what we have tried to instil this in the script."

Craig and Mendes and EON sat down and started talking about FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE, looking at the little scenes that made the novel and the film what they were, and decided to concentrate on those little things to try and instill SKYFALL with that same spirit as FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE.

And there's already a thread on this here.

Perhaps, but Craig isn't a big talker, so it's not out of the question to take him literally here. He doesn't say the script's in the spirit of FRWL etc., or words to that effect. He explicitly says they've used 'hooks' from the book in question. 'Hooks' are hard to see as anything other than major plot points that are central to the story, not vague tonal likenesses.

It's been said elsewhere that although Logan has rewritten the script he has kept the 'hook' from Peter Morgan's script. I'd connect the dots here and say that hook was adapted from an existing novel.

[Shrublands]

Why has this misinterpreted, non-story been made “sticky”?

[Skudor]

Why has this misinterpreted, non-story been made “sticky”?

Because it's been so persistently misintepreted that it has made itself sticky.

[The Shark]

Perhaps, but Craig isn't a big talker, so it's not out of the question to take him literally here. He doesn't say the script's in the spirit of FRWL etc., or words to that effect. He explicitly says they've used 'hooks' from the book in question.

I'll say this. There is one Fleming 'hook' that we rarely (if ever) mention, and that's the final scene of FRWL, where Bond has his Reichenbach Falls moment, lying in a pool of blood after Rosa Klebb has stabbed him in the shin with her stiletto shoe. In some respects, it also reminds me of the classic ending of Nicholas Roeg's DON'T LOOK NOW.

[MattofSteel]

Forgive me if I'm belabouring a point, but - has the entire Craig GQ interview been posted somewhere? I hadn't seen the quote above before.

EDIT: NVM, figured it out.

[Dustin]

It's been said elsewhere that although Logan has rewritten the script he has kept the 'hook' from Peter Morgan's script. I'd connect the dots here and say that hook was adapted from an existing novel.

One other possibility would be the material going back to an existing non-Bond novel. Some years back there was talk about Eon supposedly having bought the rights to a book that wasn't Bond related.

[Odd Jobbies]

It's been said elsewhere that although Logan has rewritten the script he has kept the 'hook' from Peter Morgan's script. I'd connect the dots here and say that hook was adapted from an existing novel.

One other possibility would be the material going back to an existing non-Bond novel. Some years back there was talk about Eon supposedly having bought the rights to a book that wasn't Bond related.

Well remembered!

Yes, there was talk of them making a non-Bond thriller. Maybe they turned it into Bond instead.

Perhaps, but Craig isn't a big talker, so it's not out of the question to take him literally here. He doesn't say the script's in the spirit of FRWL etc., or words to that effect. He explicitly says they've used 'hooks' from the book in question.

I'll say this. There is one Fleming 'hook' that we rarely (if ever) mention, and that's the final scene of FRWL, where Bond has his Reichenbach Falls moment, lying in a pool of blood after Rosa Klebb has stabbed him in the shin with her stiletto shoe. In some respects, it also reminds me of the classic ending of Nicholas Roeg's DON'T LOOK NOW.

Probably Fleming's best ending. Nice comparison to Don't Look Now, since i've read Fleming toyed with making that the final novel.

However, the fabled alternative ending to QoS, featuring Bond sniped down in the snow and left in a pool of blood as the film ends is the exact same conceit. Personally i'd've preferred that ending - would've lent the next film an interesting opening. Maybe one day we'll get to see that QoS ending!

[Shrublands]

No, Morgan said he thought up the hook himself.

He was approached toward then of the making of QOS.
He told Eon at the time that if he could come-up with an idea then all well and good, if he couldn’t, then he wasn’t the man for the job.
He came-up with something and pitched it. They liked it and he wrote a treatment based on that idea.

[Odd Jobbies]

No, Morgan said he thought up the hook himself.

He was approached toward then of the making of QOS.
He told Eon at the time that if he could come-up with an idea then all well and good, if he couldn’t, then he wasn’t the man for the job.
He came-up with something and pitched it. They liked it and he wrote a treatment based on that idea.

That clears that up then. Thanks for the info.

[The Shark]

No, Morgan said he thought up the hook himself.

Craig did say there are more than one hooks, so one of them (the "big shocker") could be of Morgan's inventions, while any of the others could be from Fleming.

As said, time will tell. As of now my dear Watson, we'll have to rely on our powers of deduction.