63 replies to this topic

[col_007]

I've always liked the scene. Probably one of the funniest moments in the entire series. "Let's try reverse, that's backwards."

Yeah it's great I think personally Bond is unflappable in that scene taking The threat of jaws in his stride

[Major Tallon]

Movie James Bond. Fun James Bond.

Damn Flemingists.

Ouch!

Sorry, Zencat, but the world of Bond fandom includes a variety of folks with different views of what they want to see in the character of Bond. I'm going to assume that your comment was meant in "fun" and didn't seriously mean to say that we Fleming fans don't have a place in the theaters when the movies are released, or don't have an interest in having at least some of our expectations met.

[Loomis]

When bond is in the Van with XXX he is laughing and not taking it seriously when jaws is trying to attack them. This ruins the spy who loved me and makes it the worst bond moore film.

If this is your biggest gripe with THE SPY WHO LOVED ME you're a very lucky man.

[zencat]

Movie James Bond. Fun James Bond.

Damn Flemingists.

Ouch!

Sorry, Zencat, but the world of Bond fandom includes a variety of folks with different views of what they want to see in the character of Bond. I'm going to assume that your comment was meant in "fun" and didn't seriously mean to say that we Fleming fans don't have a place in the theaters when the movies are released, or don't have an interest in having at least some of our expectations met.

Oh, I was joking (thought it was obvious enough not to included a wink face). I have freakin' blog called The Book Bond for crying out loud. I am a Flemingist! And a Rogerist, a Craigist, a Cubbyist, a Gardnerist, etc...

[Napoleon Solo]

By far one of my least favorite scenes in the series. Didn't ruin it for me, just annoyed me.

As someone else mentioned, too many lines and not funny ones at that. It makes Bond appear more smug than amusing or cool, IMO. It could have been a lot more effective with a classic Rog raised eyebrow.

By contrast, I love some of the scenes around it. I actually enjoy the Lawrence of Arabia moment as it gives an epic film an even more epic feel. It works much better than the Magnificent Seven theme in MR.

I tend to agree, re: use of Maurice Jarre's Lawrence of Arabia music. It was a sort-of novelty for the series at that point (borrowing another film's music) and it did fit the scene in the desert. With the Magnificent Seven theme in Moonraker, I couldn't help wonder if it was there mainly as product placement. It had been used as the Marlboro theme in U.S. cigarette commercials and Marlboro got lots of product placement in the film. While those commercials had been off the air for nearly a decade, the connection between the two was probably still fairly strong in the minds' of the audience.

[Biggy1954]

When bond is in the Van with XXX he is laughing and not taking it seriously when jaws is trying to attack them. This ruins the spy who loved me and makes it the worst bond moore film.

One thing that made Bond so cool is that he could have a sense of humor even during dangerous moments. It was a way for him to maintain his coolness when things got tough. For both Connery and Moore, it was a way to wink at the audience and acknowledge that the situations they got themselves into were ridiculous. Furthermore, Bond's sense of humor was not absent in Fleming's novels; read Moonraker (1955) for proof.

I prefer my Bond to act a little more humorous, calm, and cool in situations that would make a lot of people scream in terror. I never really wanted my Bond to sweat, scream, and cry in fear whenever things got a bit scary. In other words, I don't want Bond to be like me and a million other people.

Plus, The Spy Who Loved Me is a fun film. It is a movie meant to be entertaining, not depress us. I'm not sure what you want in a Bond movie, but I just want them to give me a good time.

[Bryce (003)]

Plus, The Spy Who Loved Me is a fun film. It is a movie meant to be entertaining, not depress us. I'm not sure what you want in a Bond movie, but I just want them to give me a good time.

Well said.

[AMC Hornet]

Am I the only one who thinks that Rog was close to losing his cool when he asked, with a shaky smile, "Would you like me to drive?"

Nothing ruins TSWLM for me. No single lapse ruins any movie for me. When you wait 2-6 years for a film you eat up what you get and go back for seconds. I'm sorry if one undercooked pea gives some people heartburn.

Edited by AMC Hornet, 16 March 2011 - 02:03 AM.

[00Twelve]

- Anya's dress at the Mojave Club

I think you mean Anya's cleavage at the Mojave Club

Don't forget those legs.

See? Exactly my point.

[Guy Haines]

I'm ambivalent about the scene. It wouldn't have bothered me if it had been done differently, but on its own it doesn't ruin the whole movie. I can think of other scenes from other films which have more of a negative impact. For me, if you come out of the cinema having watched a Bond film, and only the naff or really bad bits made any impact, then there's something wrong. But this scene I can take or leave.

[elizabeth]

I've always liked the scene. Probably one of the funniest moments in the entire series. "Let's try reverse, that's backwards."

Yeah it's great I think personally Bond is unflappable in that scene taking The threat of jaws in his stride

I think it's funny too. Rog was the humor Bond, and we needed him to do scenes like that.

[Chief of SIS]

Nothing ruins TSWLM for me. No single lapse ruins any movie for me. When you wait 2-6 years for a film you eat up what you get and go back for seconds. I'm sorry if one undercooked pea gives some people heartburn.

Agreed. We are all addicts waiting for the next fix.

...And can undercooked peas really give you heartburn?

[Bondian]

I've always liked the scene. Probably one of the funniest moments in the entire series. "Let's try reverse, that's backwards."

Yeah it's great I think personally Bond is unflappable in that scene taking The threat of jaws in his stride

I think it's funny too. Rog was the humor Bond, and we needed him to do scenes like that.

Agreed. If a professional killer (like Bond) has a sense of humour, even when he or she is threatened (or in a near death situation) with violence can handle it in a humourous way, that takes someone with experience.

[MarkD]

The worst scenes all come from the Moore films:

Starting with the worst:
-The double-taking pigeon in Moonraker makes a cheesy scene only worse;
-Tarzan, in Octopussy;
-The end of the van scene in the desert in TSWLM - wobbly wheels and silly music turning it into a Carry On movie.
-The fabulous loop the loop car stunt in TMWTGG, ruined by the slide whistle.

[AMC Hornet]

Wasn't the book 'An Idiot's Guide to Operating the Submarine Tracking System'?

My question is, what is the captain of an American atomic submarine doing letting some Brit dismantle a polaris missile, while he stands back and asks stupid questions?

Crewman: This ring houses the impulse conductor circuit, sir.
Bond: I mustn't touch it with any part of the detonator.
Cmdr Carter: What happens if you do?
Bond: Why, it'll go off.
Cmdr Carter: D'oh!

Moreover, when Stromberg announces that he will exterminate the crew of the USN Wayne with cyanide gas if they don't surrender, Carter goes and asks Bond's opinion!

I'm not American, but even I find that a bit of a stretch.

(As for Bond and XXX, I do like how they improvise bandages.)

Edited by AMC Hornet, 18 July 2011 - 07:50 PM.

[Guy Haines]

Wasn't the book 'An Idiot's Guide to Operating the Submarine Tracking System'?

My question is, what is the captain of an American atomic submarine doing letting some Brit dismantle a polaris missile, while he stands back and asks stupid questions?

Crewman: This ring houses the impulse conductor circuit, sir.
Bond: I mustn't touch it with any part of the detonator.
Cmdr Carter: What happens if you do?
Bond: Why, it'll go off.
Cmdr Carter: D'oh!

Moreover, when Stromberg announces that he will exterminate the crew of the USN Wayne with cyanide gas if they don't surrender, Carter goes and asks Bond's opinion!

I'm not American, but even I find that a bit of a stretch.

(As for Bond and XXX, I do like how his improvises bandages.)

The US submarine wasn't carrying nuclear missiles, I think. (If you look at the three docked inside the tanker, it is smaller than the other two subs.) All the same, a US Navy submarine commander might have some knowledge of the then Polaris system, surely? Instead he relies on Bond and one of the US crew-members.

The print-out transmission unit to send orders to the hijacked subs? Amazing how 007 and Carter can master it in two minutes. But surely it would have been easier to order the captains of the two submarines not to fire their missiles? No fallout problem afterwards. No awkward questions asked about two simultaneous nuclear explosions in the Atlantic.

Less dramatic however!

Yes, the final third doesn't bear too much close inspection, but it is still my favourite part of the film.

[Johnboy007]

Agreed. If there was any scene that ruined the credibility of a film featuring a seven foot henchman with metal teeth, a villain with an underwater base and giant boat that swallows submarines, and Bond detonating two nuclear warheads with no apparent fallout or after effects on the world, then this is it.

Awesome

[MarkA]

To all of the above. The scene is not only badly written it is really badly performed. Barbara Bach for a start couldn't act her way out of a paper bag and Roger (who can do comedy) reads the lines so flat. Maybe because in Barbara he had no one to play off. As John Brosnan once said, ‘Plastic Woman versus Plastic Man.’ But the real problem with Spy is, it is the first film that indulged Roger Moore's exceedingly juvenile sense of humour. I never found him funny. To me it was just a notch above a truly bad Carry On film. Not funny but embarrassing. There is nothing remotely sophisticated, or especially cool about the way Roger Moore played Bond.

[Guy Haines]

To all of the above. The scene is not only badly written it is really badly performed. Barbara Bach for a start couldn't act her way out of a paper bag and Roger (who can do comedy) reads the lines so flat. Maybe because in Barbara he had no one to play off. As John Brosnan once said, ‘Plastic Woman versus Plastic Man.’ But the real problem with Spy is, it is the first film that indulged Roger Moore's exceedingly juvenile sense of humour. I never found him funny. To me it was just a notch above a truly bad Carry On film. Not funny but embarrassing. There is nothing remotely sophisticated, or especially cool about the way Roger Moore played Bond.

The mistake made after Roger's first two films was, as you point out, to indulge his sense of humour. I do appreciate Roger's funny moments - "The Saint" would have been a joyless TV series without them, and he had some genuinely funny, witty moments as Bond - but things started to go a bit too far from TSWLM onwards. And for me, it was the emphasis on juvenile visual gags. There was no need for them. Roger Moore could have carried a scene by a funny, witty one liner on its own, and have the audience laughing with him rather than at him. I don't blame Roger. Rather, the film makers for using a leading man's approach to the role as a rationale for skimping on well written lines in favour of pigeons and drunks doing double takes at improbable scenes.

[MarkA]

To all of the above. The scene is not only badly written it is really badly performed. Barbara Bach for a start couldn't act her way out of a paper bag and Roger (who can do comedy) reads the lines so flat. Maybe because in Barbara he had no one to play off. As John Brosnan once said, ‘Plastic Woman versus Plastic Man.’ But the real problem with Spy is, it is the first film that indulged Roger Moore's exceedingly juvenile sense of humour. I never found him funny. To me it was just a notch above a truly bad Carry On film. Not funny but embarrassing. There is nothing remotely sophisticated, or especially cool about the way Roger Moore played Bond.

The mistake made after Roger's first two films was, as you point out, to indulge his sense of humour. I do appreciate Roger's funny moments - "The Saint" would have been a joyless TV series without them, and he had some genuinely funny, witty moments as Bond - but things started to go a bit too far from TSWLM onwards. And for me, it was the emphasis on juvenile visual gags. There was no need for them. Roger Moore could have carried a scene by a funny, witty one liner on its own, and have the audience laughing with him rather than at him. I don't blame Roger. Rather, the film makers for using a leading man's approach to the role as a rationale for skimping on well written lines in favour of pigeons and drunks doing double takes at improbable scenes.

I am with you on the above. Roger Moore was really good in the Saint. As I said it was the filmmakers’ indulgence in his humour that for me ruined his films. It is funny how it is often recorded that his first two films are weak and with Spy he found his way. I would say the opposite. In both especially LALD Moore tried to play Bond much tougher and both films are better for it. With Spy when he played Bond as himself things went seriously wrong. As Moore is often saying he couldn't take Bond seriously. My counter to that I couldn't take him seriously as Bond

[Agent Sidewinder]

To all of the above. The scene is not only badly written it is really badly performed. Barbara Bach for a start couldn't act her way out of a paper bag and Roger (who can do comedy) reads the lines so flat. Maybe because in Barbara he had no one to play off. As John Brosnan once said, ‘Plastic Woman versus Plastic Man.’ But the real problem with Spy is, it is the first film that indulged Roger Moore's exceedingly juvenile sense of humour. I never found him funny. To me it was just a notch above a truly bad Carry On film. Not funny but embarrassing. There is nothing remotely sophisticated, or especially cool about the way Roger Moore played Bond.

The mistake made after Roger's first two films was, as you point out, to indulge his sense of humour. I do appreciate Roger's funny moments - "The Saint" would have been a joyless TV series without them, and he had some genuinely funny, witty moments as Bond - but things started to go a bit too far from TSWLM onwards. And for me, it was the emphasis on juvenile visual gags. There was no need for them. Roger Moore could have carried a scene by a funny, witty one liner on its own, and have the audience laughing with him rather than at him. I don't blame Roger. Rather, the film makers for using a leading man's approach to the role as a rationale for skimping on well written lines in favour of pigeons and drunks doing double takes at improbable scenes.

I am with you on the above. Roger Moore was really good in the Saint. As I said it was the filmmakers’ indulgence in his humour that for me ruined his films. It is funny how it is often recorded that his first two films are weak and with Spy he found his way. I would say the opposite. In both especially LALD Moore tried to play Bond much tougher and both films are better for it. With Spy when he played Bond as himself things went seriously wrong. As Moore is often saying he couldn't take Bond seriously. My counter to that I couldn't take him seriously as Bond

And I can't take anything Moore says about his portrayal seriously. As is well-known by now, the man is self-deprecating nearly to the point of inferiority complex. He's also been quoted as saying that he based his portrayal on an excerpt from one of the books (maybe GF?) where Bond expresses his dislike of killing, while maintaining that he takes pride in his work. Moore, inspired by Fleming.....sounds odd when you say it, hmmm?

[Mr_Wint]

In both especially LALD Moore tried to play Bond much tougher and both films are better for it. With Spy when he played Bond as himself things went seriously wrong.

That is another myth that should have been killed a long time ago. In what way is Bond less tough in TSWLM? When he killed Sandor or Stromberg? He wasn't very nice to Fekkesh's girlfriend, or Anya's boyfriend, or the KGB agents at the pyramids, or a dozen of henchmen at Liparus.

While TSWLM introduce more fantasy to the Bondmovies, it seems like Bond himself becomes a little bit more human than before. I am thinking about the scene with Anya in the hotel room. But also the scene following the fight with Jaws on the train. He bleeds, maybe for the first time since OHMSS,... and he show signs of pain when Anya touch him (that didn't happen very often pre-TSWLM).

[AMC Hornet]

I just now paused TSWLM at the scene where Bond rifles through the late Aziz Fekkesh's pockets and reads the last entry in his appointment book:

Wdnesday 8 August

Max Kalba
Mujaba Club
9.40 p.m.

I may have actually seen TSWLM on August 8 (as I saw it at least a dozen times in the summer of 1977), but out of curiosity I googled '1977 calendar' and was reminded that August 8 did not fall on a Wednesday that year. The nearest year to have that date was 1979! I know Cubby B always said that the Bond films take place "15 minutes in the future" but that's a bit of a stretch (must mean that Moonraker taks place in 1981, which would make more sense).

Still, it doesn't take me out of the movie. I just follow Cubby's other axiom: "park your brains under your seat and don't ask too many questions." I find I enjoy the films much more that way.

Edited by AMC Hornet, 18 July 2011 - 06:11 PM.

[MarkA]

That is another myth that should have been killed a long time ago. In what way is Bond less tough in TSWLM? When he killed Sandor or Stromberg? He wasn't very nice to Fekkesh's girlfriend, or Anya's boyfriend, or the KGB agents at the pyramids, or a dozen of henchmen at Liparus.

While TSWLM introduce more fantasy to the Bondmovies, it seems like Bond himself becomes a little bit more human than before. I am thinking about the scene with Anya in the hotel room. But also the scene following the fight with Jaws on the train. He bleeds, maybe for the first time since OHMSS,... and he show signs of pain when Anya touch him (that didn't happen very often pre-TSWLM).

He may be seen doing these things but his whole performance in the film is much lighter and comedic than it is in his first two films. Now maybe he is playing to his strengths (or it is less of an effort). But clearly EON, Lewis Gilbert and he decided to take the character to a more comedic area. Fine if you like that, I don't, and never have. As I said I find all that quite embarrassing and juvenile. Did when I first saw them in 1977 and still do now. I am glad we have a much more serious approach again now.

[DR76]

When bond is in the Van with XXX he is laughing and not taking it seriously when jaws is trying to attack them. This ruins the spy who loved me and makes it the worst bond moore film.

That scene doesn't bother me one bit.

Did when I first saw them in 1977 and still do now. I am glad we have a much more serious approach again now.

I don't understand this comment. Are you saying that the Bond movies had a more serious tone before TSWLM in 1977? Or what?

[MarkA]

I don't understand this comment. Are you saying that the Bond movies had a more serious tone before TSWLM in 1977? Or what?

Yes I am. Yes they had humour and even laugh out loud moments. But Bond as a character essentially was never made fun of. Even in Diamonds when the overt humour started to really creep in. Bond as portrayed by Connery seemed to rise above it. It was Moore that essentially took fun of the character and from my point of view was disastrous. He was no longer cool and was a figure of fun that couldn't be taken seriously. Plus the really silly slapstick crept in. Things like the gondola scene from Moonraker. Double takes from drunks, pigeons etc. Jaws literally rising from situations that would kill anyone like some cartoon character, Tarzan yells and swings, really cringe making jokes. I could go on. Roger Moore destroyed that supremely cool character I grew up with in the 60's that’s why I resented his portrayal. I was glad to see the back of him.

[DaveBond21]

I don't understand this comment. Are you saying that the Bond movies had a more serious tone before TSWLM in 1977? Or what?

Yes I am. Yes they had humour and even laugh out loud moments. But Bond as a character essentially was never made fun of. Even in Diamonds when the overt humour started to really creep in. Bond as portrayed by Connery seemed to rise above it. It was Moore that essentially took fun of the character and from my point of view was disastrous. He was no longer cool and was a figure of fun that couldn't be taken seriously. Plus the really silly slapstick crept in. Things like the gondola scene from Moonraker. Double takes from drunks, pigeons etc. Jaws literally rising from situations that would kill anyone like some cartoon character, Tarzan yells and swings, really cringe making jokes. I could go on. Roger Moore destroyed that supremely cool character I grew up with in the 60's that’s why I resented his portrayal. I was glad to see the back of him.

I don't think Roger had any say in the direction of the movies. I think the film-makers did. And remember, a huge number of action movies had a comedic element to them between 1970 and 1989.

The tone of the Bond movies were just reflecting the kind of entertainment we had on TV at the time, like Chips and the A-Team. Even Superman went comedic in 1980, while Batman was purely a comical figure to me, based on watching the 60's TV series.

As the joke Quantum of Solace song by Joe Cornish states:-

"Sometimes I wish Roger Moore would come back,
With an underwater car or some kind of jetpack,
A hover-gondola and a Union Jack...

Forget it, mate, it's not the '80s!
He'd rather kick you in the face!
We've got a new Bond for the Noughties
Because the world's a TERRIBLE place!"



_________________

[Guy Haines]

I don't understand this comment. Are you saying that the Bond movies had a more serious tone before TSWLM in 1977? Or what?

Yes I am. Yes they had humour and even laugh out loud moments. But Bond as a character essentially was never made fun of. Even in Diamonds when the overt humour started to really creep in. Bond as portrayed by Connery seemed to rise above it. It was Moore that essentially took fun of the character and from my point of view was disastrous. He was no longer cool and was a figure of fun that couldn't be taken seriously. Plus the really silly slapstick crept in. Things like the gondola scene from Moonraker. Double takes from drunks, pigeons etc. Jaws literally rising from situations that would kill anyone like some cartoon character, Tarzan yells and swings, really cringe making jokes. I could go on. Roger Moore destroyed that supremely cool character I grew up with in the 60's that’s why I resented his portrayal. I was glad to see the back of him.

I don't think Roger had any say in the direction of the movies. I think the film-makers did. And remember, a huge number of action movies had a comedic element to them between 1970 and 1989.

The tone of the Bond movies were just reflecting the kind of entertainment we had on TV at the time, like Chips and the A-Team. Even Superman went comedic in 1980, while Batman was purely a comical figure to me, based on watching the 60's TV series.

As the joke Quantum of Solace song by Joe Cornish states:-

"Sometimes I wish Roger Moore would come back,
With an underwater car or some kind of jetpack,
A hover-gondola and a Union Jack...

Forget it, mate, it's not the '80s!
He'd rather kick you in the face!
We've got a new Bond for the Noughties
Because the world's a TERRIBLE place!"



_________________

I haven't come across that song yet, probably just as well! But I think you may be right. I think the film makers decided that since Roger Moore was a naturally amusing man, the films should reflect that. All well and good - he was naturally amusing in "The Saint". What we didn't get during the "Saint" years was the reliance on silly visual (and musical) gags, which for me were an unnecessary distraction, and on occasion ruined a good action scene. Typical example - the AVTAK pre-title credit ski chase. Potentially in the same class as the one in TSWLM. Ruined, for me, by the use of a Beach Boys track as musical background. The humour in the TSWLM ski chase came at the end, with the Union Jack parachute, which was amusing but didn't detract from the action. "California Girls" as a soundtrack piece was not only too obvious a gag (you can imagine discussions among the film makers - "We've got Bond on a "surfboard", lets have the Beach Boys in the background, it will be a hoot!"), but undermined the credibility of a scene which was already pushing the boundaries a bit.

I appreciate the humour in these films, but sometimes, "less is Moore" (apologies, "more".)

[Messervy]

Other than that, though, I like the scene. I seem to be in the minority for actually liking Roger's "too cool to worry" approach to Bond. I'm sure he figures that if and when Jaws gets around to pulling him out of the van, he'll figure some way out of trouble. In the meantime, no use flying into a panic.

I absolutely agree with you.
Moore's "cool Bond" is what got me hooked to the character (before I got to more "serious" stuff and before I actually read the novels). Very detached, yet highly capable of facing any danger if needs be. Why worry if/when you can't do anything, eh? If you have to temporarily let things happen and brace yourself for what's to come, then do it with style... That's Bond!

[DR76]

I don't understand this comment. Are you saying that the Bond movies had a more serious tone before TSWLM in 1977? Or what?

Yes I am. Yes they had humour and even laugh out loud moments. But Bond as a character essentially was never made fun of. Even in Diamonds when the overt humour started to really creep in. Bond as portrayed by Connery seemed to rise above it. It was Moore that essentially took fun of the character and from my point of view was disastrous. He was no longer cool and was a figure of fun that couldn't be taken seriously. Plus the really silly slapstick crept in. Things like the gondola scene from Moonraker. Double takes from drunks, pigeons etc. Jaws literally rising from situations that would kill anyone like some cartoon character, Tarzan yells and swings, really cringe making jokes. I could go on. Roger Moore destroyed that supremely cool character I grew up with in the 60's that’s why I resented his portrayal. I was glad to see the back of him.

Well, I'm going to have to disagree with you. Some of the Bond movies before TSMWLM struck me as something of a joke. Movies like GOLDFINGER, YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE, DIAMONDS ARE FOREVER, LIVE AND LET DIE and THE MAN WITH THE GOLDEN GUN. Frankly, I consider THE SPY WHO LOVED ME to be one of Moore's better films and his best film from the 1970s. And I certainly don't consider one scene in which Bond seemed coolly nonchalant, while Jaws tear apart his getaway vehicle as a sign of the franchise's cartoonish trends. I've seen A LOT WORSE in other Moore and Connery films.