819 replies to this topic

[YouKnowTheName]

Looking good, but still very seen-it-all-before.

Have to disagree with previous post about the Uncharted template being suitable for Bond. Call of Duty is EXACTLY what Bond games should be. Tense, realistic, immersive shooters, adaptive to action and stealth equally and demanding to the player. They are basically GoldenEye for today, perfecting the elements GoldenEye invented, and are absolutely the way Bond games MUST go.

Uncharted is all about cinematic action and huge scripted set pieces. They are both fantastic games, but too OTT and pre-scripted to really fly as Bond games. No Bond game made like it could ever measure up to the Big G, whereas one developed with the COD mechanics could.

The drawback with both is that they are both too linear, concentrating on forcing the player down a specific path rather than latting them move and operate as a secret agent, which GoldenEye nailed perfectly. This is the main issue that must be address to make a true successor. A Bond game should have a level of freeform gameplay to it, so you feel like you are maing and executing descisions as Bond, rather than following a script (where QOS fell flat).

The recipe for a perfect Bond game: 60% Hitman, 40% Call of Duty. And Hitman lets you switch seamlessly from first to third person, so no one can complain.

I do love that Activision do seem to be making two genuinely different games with this and GoldenEye, with both really playing to the strengths of their chosen gameplay types and both looking far better than we can rightly expect of the series. Things are looking good, but then they were before QOS was released...

[Mr Teddy Bear]

I was actually going to mention a sprinkle of Hitman would really make sense in a Bond game. Hitman games let you sneak around, take on disguises, give you a bunch of tools to take on a situation in any way of your choosing.

I can't agree with your points about CoD. It's as scripted as Uncharted, and there is nothing Bondian about feeling like a game is pushing you through levels on rails. It feels like a shooting gallery. There are annoying sequences of infinitely spawning guards when you just mow them down like shooting fish in a barrel, until you can push forward to some objective. Finally I hate that you rarely go it alone in CoD, and you can certainly see that influence in the Dam level of GoldenEye Wii. This makes sense for a war game, but not James Bond.

While Uncharted is more Indiana Jones than Bond, Bond is more Indy than miscellaneous war hero, so it is a closer fit.

[YouKnowTheName]

I meant CoD from a control and mechanic standpoint. It's shooting and enemie A.I is literally perfect, and modeled very closely on GoldenEye. It's the first game to give the true fluidity and control to aiming that characterised GoldenEye on a dual stick system, and feels so immersive compared to most action games, something else the 007 series lost the moment Rare lost the license. It also constantly keeps creative, every gunfight is different, complicated by circumstance or environmental hazards, you can be stealthing through a blizzard one minute, jumping a ravine the next, chasing a guy through a crowd defending a postion or in all-out war. This kind of frequent mix up is SO GoldenEye, which was always mixing up the weapon set and level design in order to keep you thinking and playing differently. Most games these days just keep throwning more and more goons at you (QoS)

It's linear, yes, but with those controls and a Hitman-lite level design (not too close, Bond doesn't need to be quite that in-depth), one that fills a relatively non-linear area with objectives and lets you complete them how you see fit, and caters for you either way, that's where we need to be going. Uncharted is no less linear than CoD, it's just sometimes a bit better at disguising it.

CoDs controls (modified to give more options and manouverability) Hitmans level design (scaled down) GoldenEye's ethos. The recipe for the perfect Bond game. You're welcome, Activision.

The root of the problem is the miscinception that games need to be 'cinematic'. I understand that Bond games are based on films (or a film series, anyway) but cinema is a non-interactive medium, and the point of gaming is that is IS interactive. a game that relies on cut scenes to tell it's story is just using another medium to do it's job, like a film constantly filling the screen with text every ten minutes to be more like a book. It's stupid, and can be done in so mant other ways. Bioshock accomplished in-medium story telling by keeping you in-head and having people talk to the camera, which you could still move. Or go with a Mass Effect dialogue tree thing. And of course, basing elements like navigation are frequently handled the same way for fear the stupid player will mess up the carefully stage-managed experience the developers were going for.

[Matt_13]

And some new pictures here: http://www.joystiq.c...-stone-preview/

[Marketto007]

Oh my lord, this looks amazing. Can't wait.

xxx

[DamnCoffee]

Erm...

WOW!

[terminus]

Lordy - so who is this Pomerov that Bond is tracking in the ice lake level? Is he our main villain, perhaps?

[YouKnowTheName]

Pretty, but it hardly stands out from the crowd. It's all so predictable and formulaic. My heart sank a little when Bond shot those red exploding barrels. Could be a blast, but it's no great.

[DamnCoffee]

Well, I'm sure GoldenEye 2010 will be much more of a riot. I have no idea what will happen in that one.

[sharpshooter]

The driving section really reminds me of Night Fire’s “Enemies Vanquished”. The location, the jumps off cliffs and everything. And with the train bit from Everything or Nothing’s “Train Chase” mixed in, except with the train travelling to the right.

That jungle level, not sure if it goes any longer than that beforehand, does remind me of a highly detailed, fully realized “Jungle” from GoldenEye. And similar looking crates, the ones you meet Valentin in during “Statue”, are there.

Activision did say they played through all the past games. May be wrong, but it seems like we're going to get some of the best aspects from the previous games in one. Oh, and cool to see they’re using the QoS blood drip for the death screen.

[Aris007]

Well the train chase scene didn't impress me cause I've seen a lot better scenes in various games, but the jungle scene is really good. The crossfire is preety well done and I also liked the fact that we have a bigger variety of hand-to-hand combat moves.

[YouKnowTheName]

The devs playing through all the previous Bond games is a terrible idea! There's only one that's any good, all they can hope is to pick up bad habits.

It's true that there's nothing in the vids (so far) that doesn't resemble something we've already seen. I swear in the Istanbul trailer Bond breaks into the set of TWINE) It also looks very linear and unimaginitive. My hopes are dropping for this one.

[Matt_13]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Rogue Agent and FRWL are the only Bond games that I can consider to be truly terrible. Nightfire is a great Brosnian adventure, as is EoN. Agent Under Fire is great fun, too. I've never understood the hype around Goldeneye though. It's a FPS. It has its clever bits but I've never considered it a proper Bond game. In essence it's just like COD, you run around and kill people. While it's clear that the new Goldeneye is going to be pretty fantastic (it literally has to be) Blood Stone is looking like the Bond game for the rest of us who want a cinematic experience, something with a slowish pace but one that turns into something spectacular in an instant. To call either game cheap or unimpressive is only insulting the devolpers who have clearly put a ton of time into this stuff. Oh, and as for similar looking environments, you have 3 options. Cold, Hot, Temperate. Would love to see you make something revolutionary when that's all you have to work with. Similarities are bound to pop up. Just be happy we're getting two freaking games at the same time!

[YouKnowTheName]

GoldenEye is not just a proper Bond game, it's the ONLY Bond game. Yes, it has a lot of similarities to COD (In many ways a spiritual succesor), but that's because COD is pretty much the template for a perfect Bond game (Linearity aside, as previously mentioned).

GoldenEye is the only Bond game to take what Bond essentially IS, a secret agent with skills in stealth, combat and modern gadgetry, and craft a game from the ground up with the sole purpose of putting YOU, the player, in Bond's position, with all his abilities and talents to use as you see fit, while taking you through a wide variety of environments designed to challenge all those abilities in different measure, and with such a focus on control and gameplay as to have achieved not only sheer perfection in the field, but a real, tangible experience of being a human being within the game world, which can only be achieved in this manner in First Person.

True, a lot of GoldenEye's uniqueness has been worn down by 13 years of immitators, but to say GoldenEye is "just an FPS" is insanity. The only reason it could seem like that is because every action game was trying to BE it until Halo. And they failed.

Every other Bond game has tried so hard to be "cinematic", which GoldenEye never concerned itself with. But a cinematic experience is a non-interactive one, which is why them feel so hollow. In GoldenEye, like Bond you were proactive, nothing happened that you didn't make happen or have to deal with yourself. In all the other games you were reactive, the game just went on around you and you brainlessly did what you were told and were lead by the hand. NOT like Bond at all. They also never even nailed the controls- no Bond game has ever felt as fluid and organic as GoldenEye.

And that's why GoldenEye is the greatest Bond game. It went so far beyond game control as to put YOU directly in the games world, which was a completely unique, varied world with a level of realism that was unprecedented. And that's the key- Immersion. Every other game has just been a fairground ride, often one where Bond isn't realy fully under your control at all (EON, FRWL), which is the opposite of what GoldenEye did and why the world remembers GoldenEye and a wave a crap cash-ins.

And yes, I fully typed 'GoldenEye' 10 times just now.

[Nicolas Suszczyk]

I agree with YKTN in one thing: GoldenEye 64 is unique. And I think Activision should do both GE and BS not so realistic, but more "entertaining". I mean, with GE 64 the fun never ended: you could play it with Agent, Secret Agent, 00 agent dificulties and you'd never be bore. Or you could unlock and use the cheats, and you had full control on Bond. In all the other games, if you kill a civilian or an innocent you get the stupid "Mission Failed" sign and the game is over. In GE, you could kill Natalya, a scientist and a civilian and, even tough you'd fail the mission, you could still have fun with the cheats.
Tell me, how many times where you able to play FRWL or QOS after you won the game without getting bored? And all the soldiers you shoot fall in the same way. In GE you blew up a soldier, a scientist or anybody and he flew sky high!

[YouKnowTheName]

GE is really the only Bond game. It's the only game to take Bond, taking gaming, and put the two together into something that can be considered a perfect example of both. All the others have just taken established games (not least GoldenEye) and awkwardly painted 007 branding on them, with never better than average results.

I can tell from the sign of my insanely ong posts that this debate is probably never going to get settled and will no doubt devolved into me posting my EON review again so I suggest we all agree to disagree on this particular point.

I will say that, gripes over it's laziness and repeating of old mistakes aside, Blood Stone looks like tremendous fun, and is already better than EON/FRWL by a mile because it has an actual aiming system. Also, while the Uncharted style is getting very worn and isn't really Bond, we should all be happy it's not a racing game at least, and the system is proven to work nicely when applied well.

A great Bond game? No chance. But a hugely entertaining all-looks-no-brains beerslam of ideas from better games led by Daniel Craig? No doubt. We can all settle our differences in deathmatch if you like.

Edited by YouKnowTheName, 16 September 2010 - 11:22 AM.

[Chief of SIS]

Don't think this has been around but I found it today and jeez does the animation look like it's coming around. Craig's model looks a lot more polished than earlier. Personally, love the crate 'hop-into-kick' animation about 15 seconds in. Looking good.

[Iroquois]

Don't think this has been around but I found it today and jeez does the animation look like it's coming around. Craig's model looks a lot more polished than earlier. Personally, love the crate 'hop-into-kick' animation about 15 seconds in. Looking good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JE7JW0j65wQ

WOW...just WOW...

[MattofSteel]

Don't think this has been around but I found it today and jeez does the animation look like it's coming around. Craig's model looks a lot more polished than earlier. Personally, love the crate 'hop-into-kick' animation about 15 seconds in. Looking good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JE7JW0j65wQ

15 years, a dozen games, and his dinner jacket's finally animated. Nice touch.

[Quantumofsolace007]

can someone post a link as youtube is blocked and I want to see the trailer On my phone at lunch

[Matt_13]

JESUS.
A tux and standard suit are shown in that trailer (so those of you interested can settle down). I don't think I've ever seen a properly animated suit in a game before. Staggering visuals. Those take downs are ridiculous. I really hope this plays well. All the signs are pointing to this being flippin' amazing.

[Marketto007]

Holy bugger! Simply amazing, that's all I can say. SIMPLY AMAZING!

xxx

[terminus]

Looking good. Shame I won't be able to get it for a while

[Matt_13]

If I could guess a timeline for the game I'd guess the following: Athens, Istanbul, Monaco, Siberia, Bangkok, Burma.

[sharpshooter]

My God. That looks Earth shatteringly great.

If that doesn't get you excited, you're not a Bond fan.

[Tybre]

Don't think this has been around but I found it today and jeez does the animation look like it's coming around. Craig's model looks a lot more polished than earlier. Personally, love the crate 'hop-into-kick' animation about 15 seconds in. Looking good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JE7JW0j65wQ

Holy Mother that's a beauty.

If I could guess a timeline for the game I'd guess the following: Athens, Istanbul, Monaco, Siberia, Bangkok, Burma.

For some reason I feel like Istanbul comes later, but eh. Athens is definitely opening the game if la interwebs are to be believed, and I fail to see why they shouldn't.

[Garth007]

Don't think this has been around but I found it today and jeez does the animation look like it's coming around. Craig's model looks a lot more polished than earlier. Personally, love the crate 'hop-into-kick' animation about 15 seconds in. Looking good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JE7JW0j65wQ

Holy Crap This looks like the best james bond game EVER!!!!

[tdalton]

Well the train chase scene didn't impress me cause I've seen a lot better scenes in various games, but the jungle scene is really good. The crossfire is preety well done and I also liked the fact that we have a bigger variety of hand-to-hand combat moves.

The train chase doesn't impress me at all either. Looks like something right out of a previous Bond game, and I don't remember it being all that great the first time either. All-in-all, BLOOD STONE looks like a fairly mixed bag right now. There have been some elements that look quite good, but then there are others such as this train chase sequence that just look subpar. I'll definitely play the game when it's released, but I'm not waiting for it with as much anticipation as others around here are.

[Aris007]

Well the train chase scene didn't impress me cause I've seen a lot better scenes in various games, but the jungle scene is really good. The crossfire is preety well done and I also liked the fact that we have a bigger variety of hand-to-hand combat moves.

The train chase doesn't impress me at all either. Looks like something right out of a previous Bond game, and I don't remember it being all that great the first time either. All-in-all, BLOOD STONE looks like a fairly mixed bag right now. There have been some elements that look quite good, but then there are others such as this train chase sequence that just look subpar. I'll definitely play the game when it's released, but I'm not waiting for it with as much anticipation as others around here are.

Same here! The game looks very, very good, but not awesome. I believe it lacks something that leaves it to very good. It needed another touch to launch it to awesomeness. I don't know what that is, maybe the lack of brand new sceneries, the story, I don't know. To be honest though I don't count the days till its release. At the moment my entusiasm is going to F1 2010 and GT5 and not towards Bloodstone.

Oh, did somebody say something about suits?

[YouKnowTheName]

Why is everyone impressed by a bunch of canned animation sequences that you, the player, will just press a single button to initiate and then sit and watch until Bond finishes and you get to play again? Uncharted, Splinter Cell and Bourne all pulled the same the trick, and while Blood Stone looks nice, it doesn't measure up to Bourne on the CQC front

All in all this is beginning to whiff more and more of EON, and that's pretty much the worst possible thing that could happen to any Bond game, Just hope it's not a game for idiots this time round.

My clairvoyant review stands. Pretty and entertaining in the short term, by seen it all before and yet another wasted opportunity for the franchise.

Edited by YouKnowTheName, 18 September 2010 - 11:19 AM.