80 replies to this topic

[Kilroy6644]

Bond does carry a Browning - One of the early FN models unlike the HP in Licence Renewed.

Browning 1903, in 9x20mm Browning, big brother of sorts to the Colt 1903 (in fact, I believe that's how Gardner described it). Trivia fact: while Gardner did not give Bond a Hi-Power, the take-down instructions that Bond is reciting to himself as he is cleaning the gun are in fact for the HP.

[Bryce (003)]

Indeed Kilroy. Actually, if I can scan it, it's featured on the dust jacket by Choping on the UK edition of LR along with a strand of pearls and a lock of heather. Maybe someone else around here has the cover or it's buried in the lit section.

Also, yes on the break-down. All this is making me itch for the range soon. Cheers Kilroy.

[Jeff007]

[Bryce (003)]

Thanks Jeff! Yup, that's the one.

[Jeff007]

No problem

[Kilroy6644]

Indeed Kilroy. Actually, if I can scan it, it's featured on the dust jacket by Choping on the UK edition of LR along with a strand of pearls and a lock of heather. Maybe someone else around here has the cover or it's buried in the lit section.

Also, yes on the break-down. All this is making me itch for the range soon. Cheers Kilroy.

I felt terrible a couple of weeks ago. I went to the range with my friends, and I didn't have much 9mm, and since I wanted to try out the P7, I left my HP at home. It just felt wrong to leave it sitting there while I took other guns out to play.

[Bryce (003)]

I rarely take all of mine when I go myself. The "ladies" all get their turn. Yes, I've named each of them. Sad maybe, but it's just to show my affection for each. Yes, all named for Bond girls.

I can't remember which Mike Hammer book, but his .45 1911 is named "Betsy" - He also tells somebody that "she's the only girl that's never let me or my pals down." and another quote - "It was time for payback and the only currency Betsy and I were carrying was .45 caliber and her purse was full."

I got to dig out those books again.

[Kilroy6644]

I rarely take all of mine when I go myself.

Me either, but the Hi-Power was my first 9mm, and still my favorite. It ranks very near the top of my favorite guns of all time, and to leave it home just seems... sinful.

It's been a while since I last read a Mike Hammer. Whenever the last one came out, I guess. I'll have to dig some of those old ones out again too. Apparently there's a new one out. I hadn't heard about it, but it's called The Big Bang, and was completed by Max Allan Collins.

[The Shark]

If we want to stay with Walther, how about the the PPS? It comes in both 9mm and S&W 40.

Looks more fitting for a sci-fi.

Very ugly gun.

[OmarB]

I'm a big fan of the 1911 and would love to see Bond with one. But there are other options. I'm really loving the Springfield Armory handguns now, the whole line is amazing. Kimber is doing fantastic things based upon the classic 1911. Wilson Combat also has some really nice 1911s, they are all so nice I could never pick one.

But really, how about something from the Desert Eagle family (my favorite fun ever!). Baby Eagle? Jericho maybe?

Or maybe the Para Hi Cap 18! http://www.para-usa....istol.php?id=10

[The sniper was a woman]

A perfect gun for a man who needs discretion, reliabity and firepower : BERETTA’s Px4 Storm Sub-Compact.
With a polymer frame that reduces weight. The external hammer allows the shooter to holster with the thumb on the hammer, preventing its rise and subsequent fall if anything catches the trigger and pushes it back.
Double-action trigger. 9mm and 13 + 1 cartridge capacity.

Edited by The sniper was a woman, 14 November 2010 - 09:46 AM.

[darkpath]

I'm going to be a trifle esoteric and suggest the .45 calibre H&K Mark 23 for rebooted literary Bond. The Mark 23 was originally developed specifically for SpecOps, and in .45 ACP has one distinct advantage over 9mm which I have yet to find a satisfactory argument. It is this, of its nature, it is a subsonic round, so there is ZERO need to change loads when using a suppressor with .45 ACP, whereas 9mm is only subsonic in the 147gr and larger loads. The Mark 23 is already fitted with a threaded barrel for use with a suppressor. It was also vigorously tested for use in or around salt-water. Given Bond's naval background, which I am presuming is being maintained, I would consider that a also a positive in the Mark 23's favor. In fairness, it is an ugly weapon, with none of the elegance that the John Moses Browning designs such as the M1911 or GP35 have.


If Bond requires something along the lines of a hand cannon, I am going to recommend a Dan Wesson revolver because of the interchangeable barrel system implicit in his designs (the system also keeps the rifling stiff by holding the barrel lining in tension across its entire length). I've fired the Dan Wesson .445 SuperMag, and it is very controllable and accurate for any distance that you would consider using iron sights on a handgun. I have not tried it with a scope, so I can not comment on how it holds up past 100 meters; but I am absolutely confident that there is nothing human sized, that I could not hit fatally with that weapon out to 100 meters with iron sights alone. I am also fully confident that it would stop most vehicles with ease.

[The sniper was a woman]

I'm going to be a trifle esoteric and suggest the .45 calibre H&K Mark 23
I am going to recommend a Dan Wesson revolver because of the interchangeable barrel system implicit in his designs (the system also keeps the rifling stiff by holding the barrel lining in tension across its entire length). I've fired the Dan Wesson .445 SuperMag, and it is very controllable and accurate for any distance that you would consider using iron sights on a handgun.

May I remind you that James Bond is a Commander...not a frigate ? He must be discreet. These guns are sort of deck guns...

Edited by The sniper was a woman, 15 November 2010 - 10:19 AM.

[darkpath]

May I remind you that James Bond is a Commander...not a frigate ? He must be discreet. These guns are sort of deck guns...

The Mark 23 was developed for very discreet work from the shadows. At the risk of being indelicate, it was developed to be a better, more reliable way of putting sentries down in a way that they would not get back up.

The Dan Wesson .445 Supermag isn't drastically larger than the Colt .45 revolver that Fleming gave him or the Ruger .44 Magnum that Gardner did. It's just more controllable and more powerful. It also has an absolutely exquisitely smooth trigger, which isn't something one often finds in such a tool without having to have it extensively worked over by an armorer.

Fleming described Bond as being taller and a trifle heavier than I am at 178cm and 78Kg respectively. I see no reason that someone of my build or larger, as Fleming depicted Bond, would have any trouble using it. Bear in mind that the Wetherby rifle that Fleming had Bond use is a much bulkier tool than either the Mark 23 or the Dan Wesson revolver.

I agree with Bryce's suggestion of the PPK for close discreet work; but the movies have left us with a Bond who is a good deal less flexible in his selection of instrument than the literary Bond. If Bond were to use a .32 (7.65mm), rather than the PPK, I'd rather he use one of the small Berettas that are roughly the same size as the .25 that Fleming had him use.

[The sniper was a woman]

The Mark 23 was developed for very discreet work from the shadows.

Indeed but certainly not to be carried with a tux' or a 3 piece business suit...

The Dan Wesson .445 Supermag isn't drastically larger than the Colt .45 revolver that Fleming gave him or the Ruger .44 Magnum that Gardner did. It's just more controllable and more powerful. It also has an absolutely exquisitely smooth trigger, which isn't something one often finds in such a tool without having to have it extensively worked over by an armorer.

For a back up, hired in a glove-box yes, instead of a H&K machine gun...

I'm 6' and 189 lbs and I'm glad with my Colt .38 Special (I'm security officer)

Edited by The sniper was a woman, 15 November 2010 - 01:00 PM.

[Dustin]

Why not go the Fleming-Boothroyd route again? I mean as Boothroyd originally intended it? He wanted Bond to have a .38 special S&W Airweight and meant the PPK to be the gun for enemy agents. The Airweight, mildly modified, is still produced today as Model 642 and is one of the bestsellers of Smith & Wesson. It's light, it's concealable, it has a very good weight-to-power ratio. And Bond should not be the guy to pop away like some drunken hillbilly. So why fix what's not broken? For personal protection this wheelgun is still a top choice and the calibre fairly common and easy to obtain even in remoter corners of the world.

[Jeff007]

It's a nice idea but it should never happen. "Down range" you need an automatic. The lack of ammo capacity in the Airweight would be my concern. All special forces and average soldiers carry automatics in the real world. 00's would also.

[The sniper was a woman]

Why not go the Fleming-Boothroyd route again? I mean as Boothroyd originally intended it? He wanted Bond to have a .38 special S&W Airweight

Very good idea ! I concur. A clever choice.
But I think it was this model in the book :

Edited by The sniper was a woman, 27 November 2010 - 07:47 PM.

[Kilroy6644]

Very good idea ! I concur. A clever choice.
But I think it was this model in the book :

Nope. Boothroyd very specifically mentions the Centennial Airweight. "Centennial" is S&W's name for the hammerless J-frame. The J-frame with the shrouded hammer is the "Body Guard," and the model you showed, with the exposed hammer, is the "Chief's Special." These terms are used to designate styles, rather than any particular model. I have a Model 36, which is the all-steel Chief's Special. The one in your picture is the Model 37.

[Kilroy6644]

That's actually a tough question, because there are many factors that go into choosing a gun. How small do you want it? Do you want a small gun that's got less power, but is easy to handle? Or do you want a small gun with more power, but that is more of a handful? Self-loading, or revolver? I'd suggest going to a range and renting a few different guns to see what you like.

[darkpath]

That's actually a tough question, because there are many factors that go into choosing a gun. How small do you want it? Do you want a small gun that's got less power, but is easy to handle? Or do you want a small gun with more power, but that is more of a handful? Self-loading, or revolver? I'd suggest going to a range and renting a few different guns to see what you like.

I concur on every point with one amplification. If you are considering the carriage of a firearm, do not forego training. I would recommend considering a facility like Front Sight, and then, based on the training and what works for you, make a selection.

[The sniper was a woman]

Nope. Boothroyd very specifically mentions the Centennial Airweight. "Centennial" is S&W's name for the hammerless J-frame. The J-frame with the shrouded hammer is the "Body Guard," and the model you showed, with the exposed hammer, is the "Chief's Special." These terms are used to designate styles, rather than any particular model. I have a Model 36, which is the all-steel Chief's Special. The one in your picture is the Model 37.

Thanks for the explanation ! Quite interesting.
How far is it accurate? What about the velocity of the bullets ?

[Kilroy6644]

How far is it accurate? What about the velocity of the bullets ?

You know, I'm not really sure. I'm not a great shot, so I've never tried to see what kind of range it has. As far as velocity, that would depend on what ammunition you use. The stuff I use can do about 290 m/s, in theory. In practice, I wouldn't get that much, because my gun has a short barrel.

[Kilroy6644]

The smallest without it interfering with it's quality (not made cheaply and substandard that is). Not too much power and easy to handle. Self-loading.
Of course I will try some out before I make a decision, but from what I told you, just a guesstimate on the price range ??? From lowest to highest ?

There's a pretty broad price range, starting as low as $100 (I don't have anything specific in mind, but there are deals out there). For that, or a bit more, you could get a used Eastern Bloc weapon like a Makarov or a P-64. They're often not the most beautifully finished guns, but they're usually built like tanks, and reliable. Not sure I'd recommend them to a first-time defensive buyer, though, due to possible parts availability issues, possible ammo availability issues, and inexperience buying a used gun. They're something to keep in mind, though.

The Ruger LCP has a pretty good reputation, I think, and I believe it sells for about $300. It's a .380, and it's small. Other than that I really don't know anything about it. I've never shot one.

The Walther PPS is in the $650-700 range, and I've heard lots of good things about it. I handled one, and it's quite small. It's available in 9mm and .40, and the 9 is supposed to be fairly pleasant to shoot.

I've heard that the Beretta 84/85 is the Cadillac of .380s. They're supposed to be very nice, reliable, and comfortable to shoot, but you have to pay for it. Around here they run about $750, which is more than the full-size Beretta 92.

I'd really like to see other people's thoughts. I don't have a lot of experience with small guns, so I'm not well-versed in what's out there.

[The sniper was a woman]

How far is it accurate? What about the velocity of the bullets ?

You know, I'm not really sure. I'm not a great shot, so I've never tried to see what kind of range it has. As far as velocity, that would depend on what ammunition you use. The stuff I use can do about 290 m/s, in theory. In practice, I wouldn't get that much, because my gun has a short barrel.

Ok. Thanks. I must try one of these one of these days.

[The sniper was a woman]

Well, while they are all beautiful guns, I just couldn't wait til I could afford one of these ones. So I traded in one of my clunker cars for a small, but nice, little used one. I've only fired it a couple of times. It wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. He said the kick was pretty good (for it's size), but I thought it was ok.

Think about the Taurus .22, for 250$ it's a good one. Taurus is a very good gun maker.

[The sniper was a woman]

Believe it or not, I found it harder to find a holster I liked, they were all so thick.

For the Taurus, no problem at all. Uncle Mike's 8810 holster, made for this model !

[The sniper was a woman]

Uncle Mike's Brand name, or relative ??

http://www.uncle-mikes.com/

There's Uncle Ben too.


And a very good book I recommend :

http://en.wikipedia....cle_Tom's_Cabin

What a family isn't it ?

[smudge76]

Glock 17 or 19 or Sig Sauer p226. both provide suitable stopping power, good pistols for covert use and good rounds capacity. Both highly used by many armed forces,sf and police forces.

[darkpath]

Here's a question that I genuinely don't know the answer to; but I think it bears consideration for a firearm choice. The military forces of the world are essentially obligated (though we could debate ad nauseum about the wisdom of this obligation) to only use full metal jacket ammunition. While I, personally, happen to think that a 9mm with proper JHP ammunition in a middle weight (124-125gr) provides adequate stopping power, I will be the first to say that my opinion of a similar weight 9mm round in FMJ provides rather poor stopping power, arguably only a little better than .25 Caliber. To be blunt, I would make a similar accusation against the .45 in FMJ, considering it to be a deficient choice for any purpose beyond the Quell target zones (brain, spine, hip joints, etc.).

John Gardner had Bond using Glaser Safety Slugs, pre-fragmented ammunition.

I know there are some experiments with tungsten-based frangible ammunition for military use; but this seems to be more based on environmental concerns over lead and over costs by allowing easier recycling of the scrap into usable ammunition.

On the other hand SIS/MI6 is, supposedly not a military organization (despite the M in MI6).

So what sort of ammunition would the "new" Bond use?