80 replies to this topic

[Bryce (003)]

One thing I had thoughts of driving home after meeting JD and our joking about whether or not I was "carrying" (I wasn't) was what about Bond's sidearm.

What would the re-booted JB be packing?

I looked through the threads about and decided to launch this one.

As someone who has carried for various duties yet never served in either law enforcement or the military and a gun owner and Bond afficianado, I do have some thoughts.

First, concealability.

Second, reliability.

Third, ammunition.

Fourth, stopping power.

Fifth, capacity.

Now, the traditional and beloved PPK is great for CQW - Close Quarter Weapon - and also covert. With a silencer, a slight cough would cover the noise. Either in .32 (7.65) or .380 (9mm short) would do, but that's for close work. A good back up and casual carry under a suit or on the hip or ankle.

Now, for the heavy work.

It's certainly got to be 9mm or .40 cal. - A number of Sig Sauers, Berettas, Glocks, S&W's and Colts offer many options.

If Bond (this new version of him) is a trained soldier, IMO he'd stick to something he could find ammo for anywhere. Hence - 9mm.

But, much like his choice in cars (as we've discussed), he might be inclined to go with something "tried and true".

My choice, the Browning HP. Staple of the SAS for 30 years. 13 round capacity. Slim. Good weight and balance IMO (I own one). Yes, single action, but any automatic is as good as a double-action after the first shot. Universal acceptance of all 126 types of 9mm and a delivery more like a cinder block through a brick wall. Accurate at over 60 meteres. It's a damn fine pistol next to the Colt M1911. Both of which are still in use nearly a century after their design.

Thoughts?

[Aris007]

Well I'm between a SIG-SAUER P299 and a Beretta 92FS.
Both are very compact guns, but then each one has its advantages.

Firstly, the SIG has an amazing fire power. Especially for follow-up shots it's THE gun. Not heavy, at least for me, and has a capacity of 13 rounds maximum, which is good for an MI6 agent, well he's not Rambo!

Now on the other hand, the Beretta is a compact gun as well with great accuracy. Also the feature that makes it just suitable for Bond is that it's supre-silent with the accesory of course. If you place a silencer you simply can't hear it even if you are 10 feet away! Now its drawback it's the amunition, which is at about 10 rounds things that's discouraging.

Now if we talk about rifles, I'm all the way for a SIG SG 552. You can hide it in a simple backpack and it's ultra-silent as well.

[Kilroy6644]

I'll second the Hi-Power. It's always been one of my favorite guns, and it's got the right combination of style and function that suits Bond perfectly.

[Bryce (003)]

Well put Aris. I councur on both. Sigs are finely made as are the Beretta models.

Yes, the capacity issue is the only drawback on the Beretta 92FS. Granted, for a field man, all it takes one well placed, but 12+ in this day and age needs to be the minimum. I've had the pleasure of firing both and the Beretta (w/ supressor) is the choice of the SEAL teams and regardless of said attachment, still retain both accuracy and stopping power. I hear there are steel jacketed sub-sonic produced for just such usage.

As to the rifle, some of the HK's do the job nicely as well, but I do like your suggestion of the 552 but I'm sort of fond of the 91/G3.

Bond would be capable with any firearm, but given the chance to choose, what would he go with given a certain situation or as his personal carry?

BTW - Your firearm knowledge is quite on par IMO. Cheers.

[Trident]

A 9mm or .40 Kimber. The Beretta 92 FS seems too unwieldy for me. Is the SIG meant to read 239? At any rate, I'm not a fan of double stack magazines, just leads to fire all over the place and once the rounds are gone the faces fall. Every round should count. At least with Bond it should. Us mortals may prefer otherwise.

[Bryce (003)]

I'll second the Hi-Power. It's always been one of my favorite guns, and it's got the right combination of style and function that suits Bond perfectly.

Cheers too Kilroy.

At any rate, I'm not a fan of double stack magazines, just leads to fire all over the place and once the rounds are gone the faces fall. Every round should count.

Point taken. Especially on making each shot count. As a former Secret Service instructor once told me "Take every shot like it's your last round."

[Aris007]

I hear there are steel jacketed sub-sonic produced for just such usage.

Yes of course there are. But I'm afraid if Bond chooses to use full metal-jacket rounds he'll have to pick a high-fire-power pistol cause these rounds are a little heavy. or he can choose them for close range shots.

As to the rifle, some of the HK's do the job nicely as well, but I do like your suggestion of the 552 but I'm sort of fond of the 91/G3.

Magnificent choice! What about the SIG 550? It's used by the Swiss special forces and if you place a telescopic lens and a silencer it does the job fine!

BTW - Your firearm knowledge is quite on par IMO. Cheers.

I appreciate that, Sir!

[Bryce (003)]

Well, next time I get myself over to Greece, we'll have to have some "shop talk". I'll bring the scotch and you can bring the Ouzo. "Yasou"

As to the rifles, the Styer AUG was always a favorite of mine. Love the fore-grip and rear clip feed on that one.

Yes, steel jacketed rounds do take their toll on a pistol, but with a customized barrel fitting on aforementioned Browning HP, it *could* work. The frame on the HP could certainly take the load. I would think that Bond would carry hot hollow points as his standard load. Perhaps jacketed. I run the Winchester silver tips in my .380 PPK. On the Browning I like the flat head Remington bits. Small recoil and a great punch.

Then again, it's all about the person doing the shooting.

[TheREAL008]

Why wouldn't/can't new Bond use a Walther P99?

Personally I like the handgun and it has been done before...would it remind people too much of the Benson era?

[Aris007]

Well, next time I get myself over to Greece, we'll have to have some "shop talk". I'll bring the scotch and you can bring the Ouzo. "Yasou"

Anytime! Just make sure you bring the King George V and I'll take care of the rest!

As to the rifles, the Styer AUG was always a favorite of mine. Love the fore-grip and rear clip feed on that one.

Right! That's a real men's toy! I'd say Barrett M107, but that's a bit far-fetched since Bond won't be any near operation "Overlord"!

Yes, steel jacketed rounds do take their toll on a pistol, but with a customized barrel fitting on aforementioned Browning HP, it *could* work. The frame on the HP could certainly take the load. I would think that Bond would carry hot hollow points as his standard load. Perhaps jacketed. I run the Winchester silver tips in my .380 PPK. On the Browning I like the flat head Remington bits. Small recoil and a great punch.

Yeah! If you're going to go custom made barrels you can modify nearly every handgun around there and since we're talking about Bond yes it's plausible!

When I get a gun of my own I'll use hollow-point .40 calibre rounds for a SIG 229.

[doublenoughtspy]

The PPK was touted as a brick through a plate glass window.

This is a dump truck smashing through a plate glass window. Repeatedly.

S&W .50







Maybe for the glove box

[DAN LIGHTER]

S&W 50 Looks like it packs a punch!

Maybe a bit big?

I am not very good with guns. Nearly killed people once, and my wife. Very bad in the wrong hands. My hands were wrong.

[Trident]

Maybe for the glove box

Would have to be XXXXL gloves...

[jaguar007]

[DAN LIGHTER]

Not sure the tap will hold on that catapult in the field Jag!

[The Shark]

Hate to spoil the fun, but isn't this something of a duplicate?

[DAN LIGHTER]

Hate to spoil the fun, but isn't this something of a duplicate?

Ah, ummmm, yes, thought we were having a bit of chat about guns before about project x. Well spotted my Shark eyed friend!

[Bryce (003)]

Boothroyd: "Nautical canvas. Re-enforced double laquered English Oak. Surgical rubber. Silent and accurate up to twenty meters. An American - Simpson I believe - swears by them. Useful with a variety of projectiles and can pass any metal detectors. Delivery like a cricket ball through a neighbor's window on a hard pitch."

[Bryce (003)]

The PPK was touted as a brick through a plate glass window.

This is a dump truck smashing through a plate glass window. Repeatedly.

S&W .50







Maybe for the glove box

Christ on a crutch selling popsicles to Eskimos in the middle of the Kremlin on St. Patty's day!

That thing needs to be mounted on a tank!




Where can I get one?

No....Really.

[Briane1911a1]

If I were writing the new Bond book and *had* to update his pistol, my own preferences would push me toward one of the compact .45-caliber guns like the Colt Defender. It's small, like the PPK, and easily concealable, and the .45-cal is a solid stopper. I'm not somebody concerned with capacity, so as long as a gun has at least five shots (the Defender holds six or seven, I forget which) I feel well-armed. Bond has shown a leaning toward the Colt .45 in the Fleming canon so this wouldn't be much of a stretch.

Second choice would be (keeping it in the family, so to speak) the Walter P-5 nine-millimeter auto. It's a Walther, so you have the OO7 association; the nine-millimeter cartridge is one of the most common in the world; you can hide a P-5 very easily (and even use the P-5 Compact if it's too big) and it looks neat, too. Bond might want to have the heavy trigger adjusted and slick up the action for better reliability.

Those would be my choices.

[zencat]

Good suggestions, Briane1911a1.

[Bryce (003)]

I do quite like the P-5, but it has a drawback. There's no safety. Yes, a de-cocking lever, but that's it. I've fired one many a time. It's a fine pistol, but I just don't trust an auto without a safety. Now, as to the Colt, yes, a few of the .45 compacts do deliver. Have to check a few of my files on those.

As the old saying goes "God created all men equal...Sam Colt kept 'em even."

A .45 is the original "man-stopper", but I'm still guessing 9mm. It's the most common automatic ammunition in the world.

[Briane1911a1]

I do quite like the P-5, but it has a drawback. There's no safety. Yes, a de-cocking lever, but that's it. I've fired one many a time. It's a fine pistol, but I just don't trust an auto without a safety. Now, as to the Colt, yes, a few of the .45 compacts do deliver. Have to check a few of my files on those.

As the old saying goes "God created all men equal...Sam Colt kept 'em even."

A .45 is the original "man-stopper", but I'm still guessing 9mm. It's the most common automatic ammunition in the world.

Bryce, The P-5 is a double-action auto. I must admit I don't have much experience with double-action autos because I shoot a Colt .45 myself (and that's a single-action auto), but do *any* double-action autos have a safety?

I believe the Israelis train to carry their double-action pistols chamber empty, and snap the slide back upon drawing. They do so because of unintentional discharges, which really suck when you're trying to be all stealthy when going up against the enemy, and they've adopted that style of carry because of real-world experience. So you have a valid point. I suppose Bond could do the same thing, as he'd surely be cross-trained with Mossad.

If you must have a safety, the Colt .45 wins the toss! You not only get one, but TWO safeies on the 1911-style pistols.

[Kilroy6644]

I have to admit, I never thought of a 1911 in any form, but the idea of a Defender does strike a chord with me. Specifically the New Agent, which is the prettiest of the Defenders, and the only one that's ever tempted me away from full-size (not successfully, yet, but I feel the draw).



Still, I'd probably take a 9mm over a .45, for Bond anyway. The P5 would be a good choice. Any of the Munich triplets would be, really. The Hi-Power's been mentioned already, as has the P99. The Walther PPS might be a good alternative to the P99. I guess a Glock would be a new direction for Bond. Not my first choice, but I really can't find fault with the idea.

[Bryce (003)]

Bryce, The P-5 is a double-action auto. I must admit I don't have much experience with double-action autos because I shoot a Colt .45 myself (and that's a single-action auto), but do *any* double-action autos have a safety?

I'd say 90% do. As to single-action autos, you don't have to tell me. I trust the safety on my own Browning.

I believe the Israelis train to carry their double-action pistols chamber empty, and snap the slide back upon drawing. They do so because of unintentional discharges, which really suck when you're trying to be all stealthy when going up against the enemy, and they've adopted that style of carry because of real-world experience. So you have a valid point. I suppose Bond could do the same thing, as he'd surely be cross-trained with Mossad.

Agreed. The lady I kickbox with father and brother are both MOSSAD. We've had many long talks over many cold brews - usually whilst I've been groaning over my various aches after a session with her. We've been to the range once and she's deadly. Why she's not followed in the family trade, I don't know.

If you must have a safety, the Colt .45 wins the toss! You not only get one, but TWO safeies on the 1911-style pistols.

Well aware of the grip and thumb safety on the classic 1911. I just find the Browning to be a bit slimmer, lighter and still carry the stopping power along with nearly double the ammo and granted an HP will drop a man, but the Colt will take him off his feet and punch him back as well.

I always appreciate someone who clearly speaks from experience and, shall we say "sticks by their gun(s)". Cheers.

[The Shark]

Agreed. The lady I kickbox with father and brother are both MOSSAD. We've had many long talks over many cold brews - usually whilst I've been groaning over my various aches after a session with her. We've been to the range once and she's deadly. Why she's not followed in the family trade, I don't know.

If she did Bryce, I'm sure she wouldn't let you know.

[Briane1911a1]

Bryce, The P-5 is a double-action auto. I must admit I don't have much experience with double-action autos because I shoot a Colt .45 myself (and that's a single-action auto), but do *any* double-action autos have a safety?

I'd say 90% do. As to single-action autos, you don't have to tell me. I trust the safety on my own Browning.

I believe the Israelis train to carry their double-action pistols chamber empty, and snap the slide back upon drawing. They do so because of unintentional discharges, which really suck when you're trying to be all stealthy when going up against the enemy, and they've adopted that style of carry because of real-world experience. So you have a valid point. I suppose Bond could do the same thing, as he'd surely be cross-trained with Mossad.

Agreed. The lady I kickbox with father and brother are both MOSSAD. We've had many long talks over many cold brews - usually whilst I've been groaning over my various aches after a session with her. We've been to the range once and she's deadly. Why she's not followed in the family trade, I don't know.

If you must have a safety, the Colt .45 wins the toss! You not only get one, but TWO safeies on the 1911-style pistols.

Well aware of the grip and thumb safety on the classic 1911. I just find the Browning to be a bit slimmer, lighter and still carry the stopping power along with nearly double the ammo and granted an HP will drop a man, but the Colt will take him off his feet and punch him back as well.

I always appreciate someone who clearly speaks from experience and, shall we say "sticks by their gun(s)". Cheers.

You can't go wrong with a Browning, but didn't Bond carry one, for a short time, in one of the Gardner books? I think it was "Win, Lose, or Die". I remember wondering if it would be concealable (I hadn't handled one yet).

I don't know if I have "experience", per se. There's only been one time I have had to seriously defend myself and all I had was a folding knife. It worked, and I still carry it, chipped blade and all. I always try to keep up on the latest handguns, as a hobby if nothing else. Oh, going back to double-action autos for a moment, a pal pointed out to me tonight that his CZ .40-cal (I have forgotten the model number already!) not only has *no* safety, but also *no* decocking lever. You have to either fire once a round is chambered, or lower the hammer on the loaded chamber. It made me sweat. I think I only fired one mag and gave it back the time I tried it out. Other than that, it's a good gun. Do you think Bond could handle a Czech weapon?

[Dustin]

About that 9mm I get the idea of the universal availability of the cartridges. But how often really would Bond have to pick up ammunition in the field? Not so often hopefully. I know the military idea is to be able to supply your allies and get supplies from them. But for a secret agent this should not be a concern. And 9mm is not always 9mm. Some automatics are delicate feeders and absolutely do not take every brand. Bond could end up stacking up with just the wrong flavour for his shooting iron. Or have to change the gun with the ammp which is probably more realistic.

BTW I would doubt Bond is cross-trained with foreign services however friendly they may appear to be. He's a secret agent so the idea would be he's secret. Why would MI6 give away that advantage? One can't know where an agent is used in the future and for what kind of operation. Cross-training would give away the features and identities of valuable personnel. I doubt an intelligence service worth its money would give its competitors such a headstart or they would all abbreviate LPH for Love Peace and Harmony. If secret agents happen to join up with members of foreign services in the course assignments during their career that can't be helped. But I think intelligence agencies keep a very close eye on such breaches of cover and note every single incident painstakingly. Perhaps that's why Bond works most often with Leiter, because both services don't want to compromise more agents than necessary and these two already know each other.

[Navy007Fan]

If we want to stay with Walther, how about the the PPS? It comes in both 9mm and S&W 40.

[Bryce (003)]

Nice Navy - Once again, we find ourselves in agreement. For CQC, it's ideal.

Dustin - Fine points on all. As to allied agencies operating together and/or trading skills, it would depend on the situation. Other than that, yes, all do keep their cards close to the vest.

Bond does carry a Browning - One of the early FN models unlike the HP in Licence Renewed.

BTW - Had my share of knife experiences. I have a blacked iodized Gerber that's proved it's worth once. "First rule of knife fighting - You're going to get cut."

Lastly the CZ is a fine weaopon. The CZ-75 in 9mm produced in the 80's was essentially the Czech take on the HP. It's not bad. I've done a few clips worth on one. It's a nice piece.