1025 replies to this topic

[David Schofield]

"Canned" would be a term most "crewmembers" would use when the touted job was delayed - whereas the "management" would rather use "delayed". Sounds like either rubbish lazy journalism from a rubbish rag or disgruntled crew members who were not that close to the production anyway. One man's "canned" is another man's "delayed".

That's what I was wondering. Where would there be much difference between either designation effectively?

Perhaps in two - three years time when this thread is on page 60 and, after the traumatic self-flagelation of some Bond fans at the news, it is revealed that Daniel Craig has 'made the decision' to move on and EON to recast (younger)?

[Trident]

"Canned" would be a term most "crewmembers" would use when the touted job was delayed - whereas the "management" would rather use "delayed". Sounds like either rubbish lazy journalism from a rubbish rag or disgruntled crew members who were not that close to the production anyway. One man's "canned" is another man's "delayed".

That's what I was wondering. Where would there be much difference between either designation effectively?

Perhaps in two - three years time when this thread is on page 60 and, after the traumatic self-flagelation of some Bond fans at the news, it is revealed that Daniel Craig has 'made the decision' to move on and EON to recast (younger)?

I do sincerely hope the furious masses won't call for a human sacrifice now. You know what happened to that proverbial messenger...

[David Schofield]

"Canned" would be a term most "crewmembers" would use when the touted job was delayed - whereas the "management" would rather use "delayed". Sounds like either rubbish lazy journalism from a rubbish rag or disgruntled crew members who were not that close to the production anyway. One man's "canned" is another man's "delayed".

That's what I was wondering. Where would there be much difference between either designation effectively?

Perhaps in two - three years time when this thread is on page 60 and, after the traumatic self-flagelation of some Bond fans at the news, it is revealed that Daniel Craig has 'made the decision' to move on and EON to recast (younger)?

I do sincerely hope the furious masses won't call for a human sacrifice now. You know what happened to that proverbial messenger...

Oh, I think Dan's got enough goodwill in the bank to be safe.

For now.

But, laugh as you may, I wonder how the huge, worldwide success of a 28 year old "James Bond" in Project X next year might undermine that position, particuarly if Jeff delivers a particularly cinematic novel...?

[Loomis]

"Canned" would be a term most "crewmembers" would use when the touted job was delayed - whereas the "management" would rather use "delayed". Sounds like either rubbish lazy journalism from a rubbish rag or disgruntled crew members who were not that close to the production anyway. One man's "canned" is another man's "delayed".

Well, it wouldn't be the first time in recent years that an Eon production has been "canned". Remember the Jinx film? It wasn't just a rumour in fandom. A screenplay was penned by Purvis and Wade. Stephen Frears was lined up to direct (not just by the rumour mill - I read an interview with Frears in which he said he spent a couple of months working with Purvis and Wade on the project). Doubtless casting, location work, etc. was also underway. A lot of money was spent - perhaps even a comparable sum to that which has been spent on BOND 23. But the plug ended up being pulled.

[marktmurphy]

"Canned" would be a term most "crewmembers" would use when the touted job was delayed - whereas the "management" would rather use "delayed". Sounds like either rubbish lazy journalism from a rubbish rag or disgruntled crew members who were not that close to the production anyway. One man's "canned" is another man's "delayed".

They're saying they heard it from people who were working on it who have been told. As it wasn't in production there wouldn't have been a load of lower rung crew hanging around: they'd be people who know.
Sounds plausible to me: just because it's a tabloid it doesn't mean it isn't true- these papers do actually have people who know people working on them. I find the constant disbelief of tabloids tiring: they do make up a lot of stuff, yes, but they do have some journos and this isn't exactly a story that would require high level penetration.

I know what you mean, though: I don't see the difference between delayed and cancelled: surely they'd pretty much ground to a halt anyway?
As Bond 23 will happen eventually it basically remains delayed or in development hell. Perhaps a cancellation just means that they abandon the script etc.; although that's more a choice to be made when production restarts, isn't it? Maybe it's a money/contract thing? People getting paid off?

[Trident]

But, laugh as you may, I wonder how the huge, worldwide success of a 28 year old "James Bond" in Project X next year might undermine that position, particuarly if Jeff delivers a particularly cinematic novel...?

BRIEFLY OFF TOPIC
You know, I recently discussed that issue with Jeremy. My initial opinion was there's no chance for a continuation getting into the fangs of EON as a whole. Jeremy argued, very persuasively and logic IMO, that with Deaver this could actually be the turning point for this law of EON's nature.

Deaver apparently is able to deliver a story that might be interesting for EON. Deaver is neither fanboy-stuff as Benson was considered, nor is he only a name in GB and/or Europe as Gardner, Faulks and Amis were. There is a chance that 'Screenplay by Purvis & Wade after an original story by Jeffery Deaver' could indeed end up on one of those posters and the main titles one day. I think the trick would be not to write it consciously 'cinematic' and leave the translation to the seasoned hands here.

At any rate the age of Bond will certainly not play any role in such considerations, but this just as an aside.

[David Schofield]

At any rate the age of Bond will certainly not play any role in such considerations, but this just as an aside.

EON Bond in seemingly permanent hybernation? Craig getting older, professionally restless?

X-Bond - age 28 - is globally huge?

I think we might have to agree to disagree on that last point, Trident.

Now, back to whether 23 has been shelved/canned/or just put on hold...

[Trident]

EON Bond in seemingly permanent hybernation? Craig getting older, professionally restless?

X-Bond - age 28 - is globally huge?

I think we might have to agree to disagree on that last point, Trident.

Now, back to whether 23 has been shelved/canned/or just put on hold...

If. If it's huge. Remains to be seen.

[marktmurphy]

But, laugh as you may, I wonder how the huge, worldwide success of a 28 year old "James Bond" in Project X next year might undermine that position, particuarly if Jeff delivers a particularly cinematic novel...?

BRIEFLY OFF TOPIC
You know, I recently discussed that issue with Jeremy. My initial opinion was there's no chance for a continuation getting into the fangs of EON as a whole. Jeremy argued, very persuasively and logic IMO, that with Deaver this could actually be the turning point for this law of EON's nature.

Deaver apparently is able to deliver a story that might be interesting for EON. Deaver is neither fanboy-stuff as Benson was considered, nor is he only a name in GB and/or Europe as Gardner, Faulks and Amis were. There is a chance that 'Screenplay by Purvis & Wade after an original story by Jeffery Deaver' could indeed end up on one of those posters and the main titles one day. I think the trick would be not to write it consciously 'cinematic' and leave the translation to the seasoned hands here.

At any rate the age of Bond will certainly not play any role in such considerations, but this just as an aside.

An interesting thought. It'd have to be both a massive and famous success and an absolutely irresistible story though, to tempt them to spend more money on buying the rights to a novel and adapting it rather than just hiring some guys to come up with another new story for them.

[Zorin Industries]

"Canned" would be a term most "crewmembers" would use when the touted job was delayed - whereas the "management" would rather use "delayed". Sounds like either rubbish lazy journalism from a rubbish rag or disgruntled crew members who were not that close to the production anyway. One man's "canned" is another man's "delayed".

Well, it wouldn't be the first time in recent years that an Eon production has been "canned". Remember the Jinx film? It wasn't just a rumour in fandom. A screenplay was penned by Purvis and Wade. Stephen Frears was lined up to direct (not just by the rumour mill - I read an interview with Frears in which he said he spent a couple of months working with Purvis and Wade on the project). Doubtless casting, location work, etc. was also underway. A lot of money was spent - perhaps even a comparable sum to that which has been spent on BOND 23. But the plug ended up being pulled.

For - I'm afraid to say - all the right reasons. The JINX spin-off would have been a bad move. The character was too close to the Bond ethic and the character was a bit of a cliche in 2002 (it always felt like JINX was some telly character).

If there was any scope in that sort of plan, then look at an Asian-set WAI LIN film.

I love Halle Berry and I love her in that role, but does not have enough momentum to warrant a spin-off film. That was more about Halle Berry the Oscar winning actress being considered a crowd puller in a catsuit (and look what happened to CATWOMAN). JINX RIDES AGAIN could even have had the dubious honour of threatening the Bond film series too - i.e. its potential lack of success would have devalued Eon's film making currency and left Bond vulnerable. I know Eon HQ worked on it, but there are a lot of films they work on.

[Zorin Industries]

"Canned" would be a term most "crewmembers" would use when the touted job was delayed - whereas the "management" would rather use "delayed". Sounds like either rubbish lazy journalism from a rubbish rag or disgruntled crew members who were not that close to the production anyway. One man's "canned" is another man's "delayed".

They're saying they heard it from people who were working on it who have been told. As it wasn't in production there wouldn't have been a load of lower rung crew hanging around: they'd be people who know.
Sounds plausible to me: just because it's a tabloid it doesn't mean it isn't true- these papers do actually have people who know people working on them.

Yeah - they KNOW Gulshan Grover's agent, Rachel Weisz's manager and where all the Clive Owen audition tapes are .... I know. They are plugged in.

"Canned" would be a term most "crewmembers" would use when the touted job was delayed - whereas the "management" would rather use "delayed". Sounds like either rubbish lazy journalism from a rubbish rag or disgruntled crew members who were not that close to the production anyway. One man's "canned" is another man's "delayed".

I find the constant disbelief of tabloids tiring: they do make up a lot of stuff, yes, but they do have some journos and this isn't exactly a story that would require high level penetration.

Actually "high level penetration" (lovely phrase that) would be EXACTLY what they would need for this story.

And I have to ask... why would a crew be attached to a film that doesn't have an official production schedule or production money that can be laid on the table to every head of department and their colleagues.

[marktmurphy]

Yeah - they KNOW Gulshan Grover's agent, Rachel Weisz's manager and where all the Clive Owen audition tapes are .... I know. They are plugged in.

You have to use your head as to what sounds plausible and what doesn't.

[Zorin Industries]

I don't see the difference between delayed and cancelled: surely they'd pretty much ground to a halt anyway?

As Bond 23 will happen eventually it basically remains delayed or in development hell. Perhaps a cancellation just means that they abandon the script etc.; although that's more a choice to be made when production restarts, isn't it? Maybe it's a money/contract thing? People getting paid off?

Why would a cancellation mean a script written by two series regulars and Broccoli favourites as well as one of the hottest screenwriters on the planet be abandoned?

And as "Crew members" (such a loose phrase used by tabloids) would not have even been contracted as there were no start-up dates as such, then why would anyone need paying off...?

Yeah - they KNOW Gulshan Grover's agent, Rachel Weisz's manager and where all the Clive Owen audition tapes are .... I know. They are plugged in.

You have to use your head as to what sounds plausible and what doesn't.

That is exactly what I am doing... and no heads were used when a LOT of people jumped onto those rumours as being absolute fact as "there is no smoke without fire when it comes to the tabloids...".

But, laugh as you may, I wonder how the huge, worldwide success of a 28 year old "James Bond" in Project X next year might undermine that position, particuarly if Jeff delivers a particularly cinematic novel...?

BRIEFLY OFF TOPIC
You know, I recently discussed that issue with Jeremy. My initial opinion was there's no chance for a continuation getting into the fangs of EON as a whole. Jeremy argued, very persuasively and logic IMO, that with Deaver this could actually be the turning point for this law of EON's nature.

Deaver apparently is able to deliver a story that might be interesting for EON. Deaver is neither fanboy-stuff as Benson was considered, nor is he only a name in GB and/or Europe as Gardner, Faulks and Amis were. There is a chance that 'Screenplay by Purvis & Wade after an original story by Jeffery Deaver' could indeed end up on one of those posters and the main titles one day. I think the trick would be not to write it consciously 'cinematic' and leave the translation to the seasoned hands here.

Eon do not work with the continuation novels.

Eon are not contractually connected to the continuation novels.

Deaver's book has not even been published so let's not assume how good or strong the story is. It will not be "huge" as some want it to be. If it is, then great for Deaver and the written Bond. But I cannot see it becoming some massive, must-film success.

[Trident]

But, laugh as you may, I wonder how the huge, worldwide success of a 28 year old "James Bond" in Project X next year might undermine that position, particuarly if Jeff delivers a particularly cinematic novel...?

BRIEFLY OFF TOPIC
You know, I recently discussed that issue with Jeremy. My initial opinion was there's no chance for a continuation getting into the fangs of EON as a whole. Jeremy argued, very persuasively and logic IMO, that with Deaver this could actually be the turning point for this law of EON's nature.

Deaver apparently is able to deliver a story that might be interesting for EON. Deaver is neither fanboy-stuff as Benson was considered, nor is he only a name in GB and/or Europe as Gardner, Faulks and Amis were. There is a chance that 'Screenplay by Purvis & Wade after an original story by Jeffery Deaver' could indeed end up on one of those posters and the main titles one day. I think the trick would be not to write it consciously 'cinematic' and leave the translation to the seasoned hands here.

Eon do not work with the continuation novels.

Eon are not contractually connected to the continuation novels.

Deaver's book has not even been published so let's not assume how good or strong the story is. It will not be "huge" as some want it to be, you can count on that. If it is, then great for Deaver and the written Bond. But I cannot see it becoming some massive, must-film success.

Agreed. But no continuation novel has ever had an international bestseller writer that has already seen an adaption of his work. The reasoning would be if it ever happened, then this would surely be the best chances there ever were since CS. The reason EON doesn't deal in the continuations is simply that they haven't been the stuff EON is producing and that EON probably doesn't want to pay for something they already own as far as they are concerned. However who's to say what may come down the road?

[Zorin Industries]

Agreed. But no continuation novel has ever had an international bestseller writer that has already seen an adaption of his work. The reasoning would be if it ever happened, then this would surely be the best chances there ever were since CS. The reason EON doesn't deal in the continuations is simply that they haven't been the stuff EON is producing and that EON probably doesn't want to pay for something they already own as far as they are concerned. However who's to say what may come down the road?

And no continuation Bond novel has been an international best-seller and - more importantly - an 'event'. I cannot see THE X PROJECT doing that. I hope I am wrong but I cannot see it.

And Eon's lack of connection to the continuation novels has nothing to do with what they already own.

[Trident]

And Eon's lack of connection to the continuation novels has nothing to do with what they already own.

So it is just down to the stuff not being 'the right stuff'? Actually I'd have doubted EON would ever dare going near 'Casino Royale' and look how perfect that turned out when they finally chanced it. Even though that story also didn't scream 'Adapt Me! Adapt Me!' at the top of its lungs. And the smaller 'intimate play' parts that came directly from Fleming even worked best IMO in that film. I'd say that courage (of going with a plot that in effect is the opposite of huge/cinematic/filmic) evidently paid and I'd actually like to see more of it, the specific chances or not-chances of X being filmed as EON Bond aside. They may probably still be next-to-zero, but if anything Casino Royale has shown what is possible if EON only decides it is.

[The Dove]

http://www.mi6.co.uk...d...=mi6&s=news

Anyone else see this link over at mi6.co.uk?? Saying the production is "canned" and "axed" just totally depresses me! I do still hold out hope that production is merely suspended and hopefully will get going ASAP, but if going by this article, it seems as though another 6 year Dalton-Brosnan drought may come of this and I fear that Daniel Craig will NOT want to wait around that long and may force EON to let him out of his contract...of course it's just a fear at the moment, and who knows we may get some positive news...eventually!! Damn you MGM...Damn you all the way to HELL!! *insert evil Bond, villian-esque laugh*

[zencat]

Posted yesterday, Dove.

What should we make of this? The Mirror is claiming an "exclusive" that Bond 23 is no longer "delayed" but "canned." Relevant paragraphs here:

Production crew were told in April the £132million blockbuster, starring Daniel Craig, had been postponed amid “financial problems” at debt-ridden movie studio Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer, which co-funded the film.

But now it has confirmed the movie has been axed – and it could be years before the secret agent with a licence to kill is back on the big screen.

A glum insider said: “Members of the production crew have been told the Bond film has been canned.

“There is a lot of bad feeling as a lot of time, money and hard work has already gone into this.”

American Beauty director Sam Mendes had been lined up to direct the 23rd flick in the franchise, which started with Dr No in 1962.

But production company EON confirmed in a statement yesterday: “We do not know when development will resume and cannot comment further at this stage.”

http://www.mirror.co...15875-22375892/

Is the Mirror just rehashing this? Or has there really been a further step toward oblivion?

[Royal Dalton]

Why would a cancellation mean a script written by two series regulars and Broccoli favourites as well as one of the hottest screenwriters on the planet be abandoned?

I suppose it depends on how much more time passes before the next film, and how much the existing script ties into the previous two films. But I wouldn't be at all surprised if the current script is dropped in favour of a new one for Bond 23, when it eventually gets made.

[David Schofield]

There were, of course, times when some of us wished EON had actually adapted the odd continuation, instead of being so stuffy about them.

Rather than produce the swill stories of, say, FYEO, Octopussy and AVTAK. While blissfully purloining pieces from the continuations - particularly Gardner - with a look of sublime innocence and denial.

And, the quality of TND, TWINE and DAD hardly scream *EON's writers really can script better plots and characters than those Glidrose/IFP's authors have delivered over the years."

[The Dove]

Oh..sorry..guess I am a day late..lol Thanks Zencat!

[jaguar007]

It all boils down to Danjaq(EON) not wanting to pay royalties to the continuation author.

[Loomis]

"Canned" would be a term most "crewmembers" would use when the touted job was delayed - whereas the "management" would rather use "delayed". Sounds like either rubbish lazy journalism from a rubbish rag or disgruntled crew members who were not that close to the production anyway. One man's "canned" is another man's "delayed".

Well, it wouldn't be the first time in recent years that an Eon production has been "canned". Remember the Jinx film? It wasn't just a rumour in fandom. A screenplay was penned by Purvis and Wade. Stephen Frears was lined up to direct (not just by the rumour mill - I read an interview with Frears in which he said he spent a couple of months working with Purvis and Wade on the project). Doubtless casting, location work, etc. was also underway. A lot of money was spent - perhaps even a comparable sum to that which has been spent on BOND 23. But the plug ended up being pulled.

For - I'm afraid to say - all the right reasons. The JINX spin-off would have been a bad move. The character was too close to the Bond ethic and the character was a bit of a cliche in 2002 (it always felt like JINX was some telly character).

If there was any scope in that sort of plan, then look at an Asian-set WAI LIN film.

I love Halle Berry and I love her in that role, but does not have enough momentum to warrant a spin-off film. That was more about Halle Berry the Oscar winning actress being considered a crowd puller in a catsuit (and look what happened to CATWOMAN). JINX RIDES AGAIN could even have had the dubious honour of threatening the Bond film series too - i.e. its potential lack of success would have devalued Eon's film making currency and left Bond vulnerable. I know Eon HQ worked on it, but there are a lot of films they work on.

Yes, but I believe that JINX got a lot further into pre-production than most of the other non-light-of-day-seeing things Eon HQ has worked on. It would certainly seem reasonable to assume that it came every bit as close to production as BOND 23, and possibly even closer.

And you say it would have been a bad move, but you don't get directors like Stephen Frears (at the time enjoying a lot of acclaim for DIRTY PRETTY THINGS and THE DEAL) just blindly signing up for any old tripe. For what it's worth, I gather that the screenplay for JINX was a surprisingly gritty and down-to-eath thriller (it was not DIE ANOTHER DAY 2), and I suspect that certain elements of it subsequently made their way into the CASINO ROYALE script.

But my point is not whether or not JINX would have been a good film (although I for one was certainly looking forward to seeing how it all turned out). My point is that BOND 23 does not mark the first time that the plug has been pulled on an Eon production in recent times.

[Trident]

Why would a cancellation mean a script written by two series regulars and Broccoli favourites as well as one of the hottest screenwriters on the planet be abandoned?

I suppose it depends on how much more time passes before the next film, and how much the existing script ties into the previous two films. But I wouldn't be at all surprised if the current script is dropped in favour of a new one for Bond 23, when it eventually gets made.

One supposes EON has a wider horizon in mind for Craig's Bond there. So I would suspect the script as EON commissioned for BOND 23 will probably be a core component for their plans and stay this way as long as their plans are valid in this form, which well could be some years and perhaps even span another actor in the role.

There were, of course, times when some of us wished EON had actually adapted the odd continuation, instead of being so stuffy about them.

Rather than produce the swill stories of, say, FYEO, Octopussy and AVTAK. While blissfully purloining pieces from the continuations - particularly Gardner - with a look of sublime innocence and denial.

And, the quality of TND, TWINE and DAD hardly scream *EON's writers really can script better plots and characters than those Glidrose/IFP's authors have delivered over the years."

The emphasis of these scripts would of course be a filmic experience, so some of their traits are designed for a very specific 90+ minutes cinema consumption that doesn't ask questions at the time of the indulgence. And given the box office figures they largely succeeded. The problem wouldn't have been the execution but the aspiration.

[marktmurphy]

I don't see the difference between delayed and cancelled: surely they'd pretty much ground to a halt anyway?

As Bond 23 will happen eventually it basically remains delayed or in development hell. Perhaps a cancellation just means that they abandon the script etc.; although that's more a choice to be made when production restarts, isn't it? Maybe it's a money/contract thing? People getting paid off?

Why would a cancellation mean a script written by two series regulars and Broccoli favourites as well as one of the hottest screenwriters on the planet be abandoned?

Well, I don't know; that's why I asked. But GoldenEye didn't bear much relation to the original Bond 17 they were talking about after Licence To Kill.

And as "Crew members" (such a loose phrase used by tabloids) would not have even been contracted as there were no start-up dates as such, then why would anyone need paying off...?

So you're saying that two series regulars and Broccoli favourites as well as one of the hottest screenwriters were writing a script and yet no-one was working on the idea of Bond 23 at all?

Yeah - they KNOW Gulshan Grover's agent, Rachel Weisz's manager and where all the Clive Owen audition tapes are .... I know. They are plugged in.

You have to use your head as to what sounds plausible and what doesn't.

That is exactly what I am doing... and no heads were used when a LOT of people jumped onto those rumours as being absolute fact as "there is no smoke without fire when it comes to the tabloids...".

They weren't me, though. There's nothing that quite screams 'this is made up' as those ones about this. I see no reason to discount it off-hand; certainly not in the use of language.

And, the quality of TND, TWINE and DAD hardly scream *EON's writers really can script better plots and characters than those Glidrose/IFP's authors have delivered over the years."

The plots of all -especially TWINE- are miles ahead of anything IFP were producing at the time. TWINE is a not-great film, but the plot is pretty decent.

[Harmsway]

The plots of all -especially TWINE- are miles ahead of anything IFP were producing at the time. TWINE is a not-great film, but the plot is pretty decent.

I disagree. Say what you will about the Benson novels, but I always felt his stories were generally more interesting than anything EON came up with at that time.

[David Schofield]

The plots of all -especially TWINE- are miles ahead of anything IFP were producing at the time. TWINE is a not-great film, but the plot is pretty decent.

I disagree. Say what you will about the Benson novels, but I always felt his stories were generally more interesting than anything EON came up with at that time.

Yes, for all RB's faults as a writer, his plots were very well contructed, much meandering apart.

Plus, of course, there was the Amis and the Gardner's gathering dust at this fallow time.

[zencat]

I agree with David that the continuation novel plots are all superior to what Eon has produced in the same era.

[marktmurphy]

The plots of all -especially TWINE- are miles ahead of anything IFP were producing at the time. TWINE is a not-great film, but the plot is pretty decent.

I disagree. Say what you will about the Benson novels, but I always felt his stories were generally more interesting than anything EON came up with at that time.

Yes, for all RB's faults as a writer, his plots were very well contructed, much meandering apart.

Plus, of course, there was the Amis and the Gardner's gathering dust at this fallow time.

Goodness; I really can't think of any. Tired old three-way who's the villain (here's a clue: its the one Bond plays a gambling game with); terrible solve-the-riddle-to-turn-the-bomb-off nonsense; plodding mountain-climbing yarn that starts in Belgium... I had fun reading them but I don't remember any outstanding plots. Even the ancient doppleganger plot was thrown away without being used. Give me MI6 blown-up, Bond injured and then tricked by a brainwashed kidnapping victim and a decently-researched oil pipeline plot over a sperm bank one any day.

[MattofSteel]

I had forgotten about the sperm bank.