352 replies to this topic

[AMC Hornet]

Lately Arnold's scores have become very complex and complicated, and I for one get lost listening to some of his longer tracks, like African Rundown and Miami Airport. Lately, however, I've been listening to some of the shorter cues like Death of an Aston Martin, Fall of a House in Venice and Time to Get Out, and this has renewed my appreciation for him.

The soundtracks for TND, TWINE and DAD were not overlong compared to CR and QoS, which is what makes the latter two so daunting for me to listen to. At least with the recently expanded soundtracks (eg TB, OHMSS, DAF, LALD, FYEO & TLD) I was already familiar with the original tracks and found it easier to assimilate the new material. CR and QoS seemed so much to take in at once.

So I have no objections to Arnold returning. On the other hand, if EON goes with someone else for B23, that's fine too. I enjoy George Martin and Bill Conti's contributions as much as I do John Barry's.

[gkgyver]

That's funny.
I think Arnold's scores became much less complex with CR and QoS (also DAD), and compared to those scores, TND, TWINE and DAD are the ones that are overlong. DAD most certainly is.

QoS is complete on album, save for one or two minor cues, and is the shortest Bond score since, well, either TLD or AVTAK. I think even GoldenEye was longer.

I also think "Fall Of A House In Venice" is the definition of a redundant action cue that adds nothing to any given score or scene.

[The Shark]

Couldn't agree more gkgyver - You took the words right out of my mouth, with only perhaps not the same verbiage.

Arnold's scores aren't really that complex. It's only because he composes and overlays his scores and instrumental voices on his keyboard and computer console, one gets that impression. Scores like say, TWINE or CR, are the worst in that manner. It's all, phoney 'studio composing' - something that I sincerely despise. Hence the result is that the music sounds jumbled, and crammed in. Mickey mousing, undisciplined writing, and audience telegraphing of the worst kind.

What else do Arnold's score lack? Subtlety, interesting orchestration, and a sense of humour. He also over-scores. Silence, or simply the lack of music, is one of the most important tools of a good composer.

[gkgyver]

Well, he most certainly lacks a sense of humour.
Humour in the Arnold sense is a suave statement of a few Bond theme chords. "The Vanish" cue comes to mind.

[DamnCoffee]

Do you know something? I'm probably going to get my head bitten off for this, but Die Another Day is probably Arnolds best work.

If he just got rid of the awful electronics then it would be one of the best scores in the series.

[The Shark]

Compared to Barry, Conti, Hammlisch, Serra and Martin - It's absolute rubbish. But I'll concede, it's probably Arnold's strongest score.

[Harmsway]

DIE ANOTHER DAY as Arnold's strongest? Hm. I've always been put off by the awful, overbearing electronics.

[Quantumofsolace007]

how about James Newtown Howard





I challenge the shark or anyone really to listen to this peice from 1993's the fugitive and tell me it's not amazing

[The Shark]

how about James Newtown Howard




I challenge the shark or anyone really to listen to this peice from 1993's the fugitive and tell me it's not amazing

It's not amazing. It serves the film, but not much more than that. The synth pads and so forth, do date quite a bit, and like practically everything else James Newton Howard has written it's overly simple and banal. He just gets an orchestra with overdubbed electronics to play what could be easily be performed on a synthesiser. He's just a more restrained, introspective version of Hans Zimmer.

DIE ANOTHER DAY as Arnold's strongest? Hm. I've always been put off by the awful, overbearing electronics.

All of Arnold's scores have awful, overbearing electronics. I just prefer what's buried under the layers of drum and bass extremest here, than in his other scores.

I have a lot of time for 'Bond in Havana', and rather like 'A Touch of Frost', 'Whiteout', and 'Some Kind of Hero'.

[Harmsway]

All of Arnold's scores have awful, overbearing electronics.

Some more than others. DIE ANOTHER DAY is particularly bad in this respect.

[The Shark]

All of Arnold's scores have awful, overbearing electronics.

Some more than others. DIE ANOTHER DAY is particularly bad in this respect.

Well, for some odd reason, I prefer the drum loops he comes up with here, than say in Casino Royalale, Quantum of Solace, and The World Is Not Enough.

[quantumofsolace]

All of Arnold's scores have awful, overbearing electronics.

Some more than others. DIE ANOTHER DAY is particularly bad in this respect.

I don't like DIE ANOTHER DAY much ,but i do think that the cheap sounding electronics on the soundtrack go well with the film.I think they enhance the fun of the tackiness of the film. A classy score would be not be appropriate here.

CR and QOS have classy scores for classy films.

[jaguar007]

I find that Arnolds scores have too much going on. I do miss the more orchestral score of Barry. I do like the scores to TND (a warm return after the awful Serra score) and CR. Much of that is due to the great instrumental versions of Surrender and YKMN.

[sharpshooter]

I quite like Arnold’s TND, but I think his best work would be a CR/QoS mix. Sure, there is still dreck like Miami International hanging around, but I rank African Rundown, Time To Get Out, City of Lovers and Night at the Opera pretty highly. I don't think his other work reaches that standard.

[gkgyver]

I'm just afraid that once you lose the major part of the electronics, there is not much left underneath.

[Sigma7]

ARNOLD CAN STAY !!!!!!!!!CR and QOS are very worthy additions, and shows that he is improving

[The Shark]

QOS was an improvement yes, but if he just regresses back to CR-style generic CSI beats and tribal drums, then he deserves to be sacked.

[gkgyver]

There is always the possibility that schedule conflicts will at some point hold Arnold back from doing a 007 film, like it was with Barry. I can see that happening for Bond 23, since its release date is in the air.
If it's not happening on Bond 23, it probably won't happen for a long time.

[Brent A. Snyder]

I enjoyed Arnold's CR and QoS scores as much [if not more] as the Brosnan era scores, but I think someone like Hans Zimmer could step in and do a fine 007 score if Arnold were not available for Bond 23.

[The Shark]

God no. I'd settle for an eternity of David Arnold Bond scores just to make sure Hans Zimmer never got the job.

[Diabolik]

Absolutely! He's the only Bond composer to successfully "channel" Barry's rich style. Don't get me wrong, DAD wasn't very strong, but the last couple have been magnificent now that he's abandoned the techno stuff in favor of the original Bond style.

[Guy Haines]

Let's face it fellas! In a movie as good as Casino Royale the score was mediocre. There were one or two good moments in 25 tracks. And when I say moments I don't mean tracks, but seconds from tracks. Take Blunt Instrument for instance. The good part was the last 30 seconds. The rest of it noise. Then take Thunderball. Every track is a masterpiece. Every track is magnificent from 0:01 to the end. We need a composer that can make the best out of every story!

Agreed about Thunderball, it is one of my favourite scores. Yet it is based around four themes, Thunderball, Kiss Kiss Bang Bang, 007 and The James Bond Theme, two of which are not even unique to that film. Yet for me at least, it works. A tribute to John Barry's talents - he can write a music score and re-cycle two themes from previous films and still create a great work (his arrangement of the 007 theme for TB is my favourite, and it was great to finally hear it on the 30th Anniversary Limited Edition double CD and later in the expanded TB CD.)

[Guy Haines]

Having listened to his Star Trek soundtrack quite recently, I would suggest Michael Giachinno to score a Bond film. The Trek score is quite straightforward and effective, imo, and I noticed with the closing track that he incorporated a reasonably faithful adaptation of the original Alexander Courage theme from the TV series. Which suggests to me that if signed to score Bond he could produce a decent work, but not mess about too much with the original Bond theme, or the interpolations of it throughout the film.

[gkgyver]

Before you hire Giacchino, hire Goldenthal.

[The Shark]

Absolutely! He's the only Bond composer to successfully "channel" Barry's rich style. Don't get me wrong, DAD wasn't very strong, but the last couple have been magnificent now that he's abandoned the techno stuff in favor of the original Bond style.

He hasn't channelled Barry's style, merely paid a few superficial homages. Most of it's within Arnold's own (limited) 'big blockbuster' idiom.

And Arnold hasn't abandoned the synth beats, by any means. Almost every track (with a few notable exceptions) on CR and QOS contain slick electronics.

Having listened to his Star Trek soundtrack quite recently, I would suggest Michael Giachinno to score a Bond film. The Trek score is quite straightforward and effective, imo, and I noticed with the closing track that he incorporated a reasonably faithful adaptation of the original Alexander Courage theme from the TV series. Which suggests to me that if signed to score Bond he could produce a decent work, but not mess about too much with the original Bond theme, or the interpolations of it throughout the film.

He did a nice re-working of Courage's theme, but everything else was just mindless, overly digital-ised filler.

[Quantumofsolace007]

Absolutely! He's the only Bond composer to successfully "channel" Barry's rich style. Don't get me wrong, DAD wasn't very strong, but the last couple have been magnificent now that he's abandoned the techno stuff in favor of the original Bond style.

He hasn't channelled Barry's style, merely paid a few superficial homages. Most of it's within Arnold's own (limited) 'big blockbuster' idiom.

And Arnold hasn't abandoned the synth beats, by any means. Almost every track (with a few notable exceptions) on CR and QOS contain slick electronics.

Having listened to his Star Trek soundtrack quite recently, I would suggest Michael Giachinno to score a Bond film. The Trek score is quite straightforward and effective, imo, and I noticed with the closing track that he incorporated a reasonably faithful adaptation of the original Alexander Courage theme from the TV series. Which suggests to me that if signed to score Bond he could produce a decent work, but not mess about too much with the original Bond theme, or the interpolations of it throughout the film.

He did a nice re-working of Courage's theme, but everything else was just mindless, overly digital-ised filler.

and who would u like cause everyone we mention u shoot down. Just curious

[The Shark]

Absolutely! He's the only Bond composer to successfully "channel" Barry's rich style. Don't get me wrong, DAD wasn't very strong, but the last couple have been magnificent now that he's abandoned the techno stuff in favor of the original Bond style.

He hasn't channelled Barry's style, merely paid a few superficial homages. Most of it's within Arnold's own (limited) 'big blockbuster' idiom.

And Arnold hasn't abandoned the synth beats, by any means. Almost every track (with a few notable exceptions) on CR and QOS contain slick electronics.

Having listened to his Star Trek soundtrack quite recently, I would suggest Michael Giachinno to score a Bond film. The Trek score is quite straightforward and effective, imo, and I noticed with the closing track that he incorporated a reasonably faithful adaptation of the original Alexander Courage theme from the TV series. Which suggests to me that if signed to score Bond he could produce a decent work, but not mess about too much with the original Bond theme, or the interpolations of it throughout the film.

He did a nice re-working of Courage's theme, but everything else was just mindless, overly digital-ised filler.

and who would u like cause everyone we mention u shoot down. Just curious

Elliot Goldenthal.

[DCI_director]

I happen to agree. To me Arnold has intentionally moved away from the traditional Bond sound that everyone knows, non Bond fans included. The scores for CR and QOS left me disappointed and frankly, not looking forward to the Bond 23 score IF this is the direction Arnold is going to continue to take. They sound just like average scores that could belong to any movie and not a Bond movie. The truth is the Bond sound is a beast of it's own. Everyone recognizes that sound (The falling/wailing trumpets, lush full strings, the build up of an orchestra revealing the villain's plan, etc.).

If Arnold wanted to mix things up a bit, fine. I think he did it, but after awhile, you have to get back on track. I thought he did a beautiful job with TMD and TWINE and I don't see why he can't bring those elements back. I too am ready for a traditional Bond score. We will never get Barry back, but film composers know exactly the sound of Bond. Listen to the score for the Incredibles. There were SO many Bond elements and sounds in that score. I know Arnold can do it. He has done it. But if he is going to continue down this path of making the scores sound like any other films except Bond films, then I think it's time to bring in a new composer. Just my 2 cents.

I think the main problem with David Arnold by now is just that he doesn't have anything to say anymore, musically. What he did have to say was milked dry by the time we got Die Another Day.

Really, the thing is that the scope of the music grew with the scope of the films. Listen to Tomorrow Never Dies for instance - it is a multimillion blockbuster score. I wouldn't call Goldfinger or YOLT or OHMSS or Octopussy that.
The music became blockbuster music, just like the movies were restructured as action blockbusters in the Brosnan era. Now with Craig, they are still largely action blockbusters, but they have an element that Arnold isn't able to cover, I think.

Arnold's work is largely serious in tone and melodramatic. Barry never, or seldomly, was. Brooding maybe, or thrilling, but never overly serious or melodramatic.

The cinematic environment just completely changed, and Arnold delivers what is expected from an action/spy movie. He may have Barry influences, but honestly, it sounds more like an evolution of Michael Kamen's score than anything else, with tendencies to abandon the Bond sound in favour of generic action music.

Bond music always was sort of a beast of its own, and Arnold slightly moved away from that. Not unintentionally on his/the producers' part I dare say.

A score very much in the tradition of John Barry would indeed be welcome, but no producer/director in his right mind would apply a score like OHMSS to a film like Quantum Of Solace (James Horner's comment about Gabriel Yared's rejected Troy score sounding like a 40 year old Hercules movie springs to mind). Not to mention that there probably is no composer working right now who could create the same magic, unless he wanted to just ape Barry.

Plus, John Barry's Bond scores were all relatively short. What directors nowadays would go for a 60 minutes score for a 100+ minutes film? Moreover, what composers today would be able to create a soundscape that leaves a distinct musical mark, as Barry was so ingenius at doing.

An excellent choice would be Elliot Goldenthal indeed. He is versatile enough.

[occhile007]

David Arnold must return. When even John Barry recommended Arnold to barbara broccoli, that says a lot. I would like him to continue his new sounds that he introduced to us in QOS. Especially, the sounds he used in "inside man." good stuff...

[The Shark]

David Arnold must return. When even John Barry recommended Arnold to barbara broccoli, that says a lot.

Even the great John Barry isn't infallible. He can make grave errors just like any of us.

As of now - Please EON, end this musical monotony. Hire another composer to once again breath life into Bond.